Can anyone tell me if it's possible to create a group/house in Booksie that is essentially public but with a requirement for a moderator's permission to join? According to the on-screen instructions for setting the Access field (where you make a house either public or private), public access means you don't need a moderator's permission to join, so I chose private. Once I clicked the button to actually create the house, it took me to my own home page (no confirmation screen), but I'm neither a member of the new house (assuming it even got created), nor can I find/access it in any way. I named it "Under Construction". It's just not visible.

Thanks
Dirk

Yeah, it was spam. I couldn't read his content either, but the titles of both posts made it clear he was advertising.
Thanks.

Marilyn Johnson wrote:

"Okay, MJ, go drink your coffee and try not to get up on the wrong side of the bed tomorrow."

My old English teacher always had a cup of "coffee" too. smile So much became clear once we realized what else was in it. Apparently he liked to mix in a little sauce. Must have had a large supply left over from Thanksgiving dinner. :-)

I'll talk to Sol; see if I can get some clarity on Facebook integration. The member agreement is very clear that they do not share anyone's writing, except for things like title and, if I remember correctly, snippets to promote our work. Common sense says he's not going to grab working titles and random text from incomplete novels. If he did, just put a curse word in the working title. tongue

Booksie has a number of ways to promote our work; even so, no AI (or person) is going to be smart enough to grab the right snippet from our work without us in the loop. There has to be a step in there where we declare something ready to be advertised and what to advertise. If we never complete that step, then Booksie wouldn't be able to grab anything.

Terry, where did you see that stories are exposed to the internet? I couldn't find it under the member agreement or copyright policy. In fact, the member agreement seems to suggest the exact opposite. Book title and other high level details, yes, but not content from the parts of the member agreement I read.

Thanks
Dirk

Jack, MJ,

I got the same impression as both of you, but an Advanced Writers group on Booksie with a little bit of gatekeeping would give us continued access to each other and (one hopes) to other experienced writers who can replace all the folks we lost here.

Marilyn Johnson wrote:

But, back to today... if a person joins Advanced Writers, and it turns out they're greenhorns in writing, do we kick them out, keep them there in hopes they will re-write their work using some of the suggestions we offer, or what? People love their own words, as we all know. So it's something to think about when we finally morph over to Booksie. Maybe we could consider "by invitation only" for that group and keep it "private" as well. If we find someone willing to exchange reviews and offer worthwhile feedback, we could send them an invitation to join. Whadaya think about that?

I like the idea of a private, invitation only group. But...


If you post a certain written work to Advanced Writers (AW) for feedback, you can't simultaneously post it to another group (house) as well (e.g. to the main part of the site), so we can have at least some interaction with non-members in order to identify the ones to invite in.


Also, Marilyn, how would people like you and me have gotten started with experienced writers if most had been hiding, content in their own silo of other experienced writers?


(Vern's voice): All of this may be much ado about nothing. This wouldn't be the first time we did lots of handwringing and debate about something that never came to pass.


I'd still prefer to start with a public group (requiring permission to join so we can do some gatekeeping) and a note on what's expected of all group members. The note should also specify certain things you can't do as a member (e.g., non-helpful reviews, posting stuff that you haven't proofread first, etc.). I'm sure we can come up with a list of pet peeves to make people stop and think before trying to join. And a big requirement ought to be that you have to be a paying member on the site for at least 30 days (or some other number).


That way, we'd still be visible on the site, giving people a visible list of members whom they can contact to ask questions, as well as visible posted works non-members can look at to compare to their own writing.

Plus we can always go private/invitation-only if we find a public group just doesn't work.

Send a PM to Sol. I don't know if he expected requests to go to this thread.

I mentioned at the beginning of my thread that Sol hasn't made a decision. For now it's about trying to figure out how best to exist on Booksie, hence my thread. Personally, I'd suggest not being among the first handful of people to jump over unless you're okay working with a work in progress (i.e., a suggested workflow for TNBW members). In that case, I'd ask that you provide feedback in my Booksie thread about what works for you and what doesn't).

In the meantime, people can continue writing and posting on TNBW. If you want to dip your toe in the water first, post to both sites for a while. That was my plan.

To avoid having to deal with elitism complaints, I suggest the Advanced Writers group be open to anyone to join but that we document expectations of group members in the group's description and forum. We may get people who join without regard for the expectations, but we can always remind them on a case-by-case basis. That's a lot easier than having to review applications and applicants' writings. The honor system. smile


Bill, what do you think?

Everyone, please use Sol's initial link in the first post of this thread to go over to Booksie and become a member of the TheNextBigWriter group. That's how we'll find each other over there.

For the moment, the above link is the only way I know to get to the TNBW group; it's private, so it doesn't show up in the list of all groups.

See Sol's first post to this thread if you need an account there or want to take advantage of his offer of a free one-year membership with Booksie.

By the way, I just discovered that Booksie has a lot more groups/houses already in existence than I realized. I was looking in the wrong place. To see all of them, click Houses at the top right and then click on the All Houses tab. I didn't see the TNBW group there, probably because it's private.

I just went through the existing groups. Looks like it could use a cleanup/purge here too.

Marilyn, I highlighted your question to Sol above. Hopefully, he'll check into this thread fairly regularly and see it.

To get to the TNBW group, click on the first link in Sol's original post to this thread above. I tried to find it by searching for both TNBW and TheNextBigWriter and neither yielded a result. It may be because it's a private group.


Sol or Bill, how do we get to the TNBW group from within Booksie itself (i.e. assuming we don't have your original link above)?

Thanks
Dirk

Thanks Bill. Good point re elitism. I'm not sure how to set up an advanced writers group without at least someone weeding out unqualified writers/reviewers, though. Of course, the criteria would inevitably be part "art", which is hard to quantify.

That being said, my writing improved on TNBW because I had access to experienced writers to trade reviews with, even though my reviewing and writing skills sucked at the beginning. smile

A good bio seems reasonable. Samples would probably be easy (we go check their account for their writings, or they can tell us which piece(s) of writing to consider).

I joined a Facebook writer's group in Calgary recently, where I had to give reasons why I wanted to be part of that group. I rattled off a list of 8-10 reasons why I'd be a good fit/contributor and how I hope to benefit. I don't know how many people reviewed it, but I got in. Clearly they have low standards. tongue

Think of it as TNBW 1.6. :-)
I can't recall if it's possible to create groups on Booksie as easily as is done on TNBW. The latter always requires a purge of abandoned groups from time to time. It might be better to reserve that functionality to an admin.
As for what groups to create, it depends on whether there are enough people interested in technical discussions. As you know, TNBW forums are barely used (you have to join a group before you see whether there are useful/regular discussions happening there. The Booksie group user interface is the same as TNBW, although groups are called (publishing) houses. From what I've seen, they're not used much.

One thing about the TNBW group in Booksie is that we are down to a small number of active users who might join that group. Over time, as members of the TNBW group fall away through natural attrition, we would need to add new members to that group in order for the group to remain useable to us.

Booksie, as far as I remember, only allows you to post your writing to one group. If we decide to post to the TNBW group, then that's the only place we can post our work unless we duplicate the written work in two places (i.e., as if we were writing two distinct books). Technically doable, but it stinks as a workflow.


In order to find/encourage advanced writers to join a group with us, it probably makes more sense to create another group for advanced writers (who do quality reviews, or at least try). Call it Advanced Writers and perhaps require permission to join. I suspect every TNBW member would also become a member of an Advanced Writers group and then we post our writing to Advanced Writers only. Keeps out the younglings until they can handle a lightsaber. :-) The TNBW group then becomes a place to find each other on Booksie, not a place where you would post writing. Advanced Writers is more aptly named than TNBW in order to attract other serious writers to us.


Bill, please let me know if my understanding of Booksie as described above correct. Is an Advanced Writers group with a need to request permission to join a good way to go? Thanks

This evaluation is on hold while we focus on trying to revive TNBW first. See the "Reviving TNBW" thread instead.

I've been having offline discussions with several of you over the past months about the fact that the site is on life support. In fact, New Books (chapters) on the Home Page barely moves anymore. I've also discussed this with Sol at length, and he simply doesn't have the time to keep running two sites indefinitely. It would also require time from him and a developer to make a few bug fixes and minor enhancements needed to get and keep new users, not to mention all the invisible backend work that they already do to keep this site going.

Although he hasn't made a firm decision yet to shut us down, the writing is on the wall. Day to day support (bug fixes, minor enhancements, user support) is currently inadequate and makes it almost impossible to get/keep new users. Although, I'm going to take over a few more of Sol's regular TNBW admin/support tasks later this month (on a volunteer basis), that's not going to save this site. It should, however, buy us enough time to evaluate Booksie from a TNBW member's perspective, figure out where the pain points are, and see what the best workflow would be to keep doing the things that made/make our site invaluable to us.

Why switch?
- bug fixes
- minor enhancements
- a number of existing features we don't have and won't get
- ongoing development of new features
- larger audience of potential reviewers, including (one would hope) more/deeper domain expertise
- virtually identical user interface of core features (some wording changes)
- no points system (see below), so no need to scrounge and pay points to post
- a TNBW group on Booksie, where we can find each other and continue to read/review each other's work
- more contests
- the Booksie AI to analyze your writing and give you feedback (Terry raves about this)
- less expensive subscription, if I remember correctly, including one free year at this time

Biggest drawback I know of at present seems to lie with the quality of some of the reviews. One solution for that is, if you're getting crap reviews ("Good job!") in return for you putting in hours reviewing their stuff, either encourage them to do better, or drop them and find another reviewer.

While the points system here currently incentivizes others to review your work, it's usually the same people who read each other's work on this site (especially now with so few active users), along with an occasional one-off review from/to someone new. With or without points, it all comes down to our individual network of connections. If I find someone in Booksie beyond the TNBW group who gives great reviews, I would want to make them part of my network, assuming they're interested in my writing and I in theirs. I don't know about others, but I usually can't keep up with more than 6-8 reviewers (even less at present because real life intrudes yet again). So, you really just need to find N reciprocal reviewers on Booksie, where N is the number of reviewers you can handle, and add more as existing members of your network drop out.

I'm certain there will be other pain points for those of us on TNBW, but I haven't spent nearly enough time on Booksie. And I could definitely use the help of as many TNBW members as possible to kick those tires and report here what you find out, both good and (especially) bad, and potential workarounds.

Given how few active users we have and the complexity of moving reviews and chapters from here to Booksie (there are bound to be incompatibilities), I think we can reasonably expect that very little can be brought across automatically, although Sol and his elves may surprise me. And while it may be a pain to repost all of our books/chapters (again), no points are required to do so on Booksie. Since the lights aren't going to go out here tomorrow, we should have plenty of time to start copying (applying) suggested edits from our incoming reviews into our manuscripts.

Got him. Thanks, Bill.

493

(309 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Only a few short scenes left to write, with 3 pages worth of space free to use.

Problem now is, in this chapter, which comes at the end of act 1, Joseph is no longer the immature jerk he was in my last draft of act 2. He's light years kinder and more likeable. And you feel sorry for the guy.

Not sure what I'll do about that. The only way I'll ever finish and publish this book is if I need several breaks from Connor over the next few years.

Got him. Thanks, Bill.

Thanks, Bill. They're gone.

Dirk

Thanks, Dagny. That's a great alternative. I thought of that, but thought it would wind up being boring. However, yours works well.
I'm reworking the chapter now, so I'll make a decision when I get to it.

Dirk

497

(309 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Crap. The chapter ended up being too long. Now I'll have to see if I can salvage my favorite parts. The conversations between Joseph and the nurse (or medical resident) are some of the best scenes, but the invasive tests he's forced to undergo will have to be reduced to summary form. Too bad.

498

(309 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Kdot wrote:

In Canada, at least, when you're on suicide watch, they'll issue you paper clothes

What would be the fun in that? smile  And you can still choke on paper.

499

(309 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Wow! Apparently there are real cases where prisoners hung themselves with only underwear (see below). So I guess Joseph's psychiatric hospital had legitimate reasons to be concerned that he might off himself with his clothing.

We performed external autopsies and examinations on two inmates who had committed suicide by hanging themselves with their underwear and using the window bars of their cells as ligature points after they had been placed in solitary confinement. In one case, the inmate had even been deprived of her clothing (with the exception to her underwear).

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 … 017-1704-5

500

(309 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Looks like I'll probably blow my June 30 deadline. What I had thought might be a 10-page chapter has morphed into a giant (hopefully no more than 30 pages). Although I may eventually take a hacksaw to this in the future (don't ask me how), for now I want to finish the first act with a really strong chapter before I put the book back on the shelf. Poor Joseph is locked up in a psychiatric facility, where the shrinks take away his clothes to prevent him from harming himself and to force him to cooperate. I got that crazy idea from a story I once read about a psychiatric prison taking away most of a psychotic prisoner's clothing out of some bizarre fear he would somehow harm himself using them. Not sure how, though. By swallowing them maybe? I took it a step further and made Joseph stark naked, having to frequently keep his hands over his privates. tongue  And as luck would have it, he has to spend much of the time in the presence of a beautiful young nurse not much older than him in situations where he can't cover up. I am so mean.

I'll just make the forced nudity a metaphor for the degrading way the mentally ill were and continue to be treated in secure psychiatric settings.