Quick survey for anyone who cares to vote:
- psychiatric wards in the year 4017 are referred to as brainial units, and psychiatrists are referred to as Freudians, which is also the name of the above noted chapter
- the other option is to call the psychiatrists brainials
- brainials would be a reasonable choice if all of this were to be taken seriously; Freudians seems a little odd, so it may be a better choice in this case
Any preferences?
Thanks, Bill. They're gone.
You mean live to the end of the book or to the end of this nonstop chapter ("The Freudians")? No one dies in the chapter as it's more of a character development chapter for Joseph. I also introduced a young nurse named Catherine in it who is now among my favorite characters. She becomes somewhat like an older sister to Joseph. I'm considering punting other characters, so I can make room for her in the rest of the book. She's much more real than either Princess Stephanie (doormat) or Eve (Joseph's ex-doormat). As written, though, the chapter belongs at the end of act one, not the beginning of act two.
I have a similar problem brewing with Apollo's first chapter in act two, although not with regard to length but rather the fact that it doesn't really belong in act two either. It's an assassination attempt against the Imperial Family, staged by Nero to rally the support of the ruling elite, who are beginning to sour on his rule. The assassination attempt is where Caligula loses half his face. That's a great chapter to close out Apollo's first act, not to open the second ("The Young Leaders' Conference").
I think if I choose a moment of maximum danger to both Apollo and Joseph in their respective chapters above, then I could end act one on a cliffhanger for each of them. At that point, it seems more reasonable to wrap up those two chapters as the first pair of act two.
I'm still wondering if "The Freudians" is too weird compared to the rest of the book, though. Joseph is pretty much naked the whole chapter, and it gets stranger from there, although I think it all makes sense given the circumstances, some of which you don't realize until near the end of the chapter, when a few secrets are revealed. Terry seemed to like it; he said he hopes Catherine and Joseph will eventually get together, although it won't be that simple since Joseph is supposed to be coming to terms with being gay, and there is Christian, his intended love interest, to deal with. I could shift it, though, and make him bisexual if need be.
One possibility is to make half of it wrap up act 1 and the other half the second chapter of act 2 (Apollo is up first in act 2 since Joseph closed act 1).
Yikes. My first act's final chapter, which was "in excess of 30 pages", has mushroomed even further to 38 pages. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with this bad boy. I'm not going to change it now, but I clearly have to do something with it eventually to hack it down to size (e.g., 20 pages or less is reasonable for this book's chapter lengths). That's a lot to cut!
I suppose I could treat it like a tie-in for the book, and use the tie-in to give a detailed version of the trimmed version in the book.
Hi Marilyn,
As ornery and sassy as you are, you'll probably outlive me - Ha!
And me! LOL
I learned how important it is to moderate feedback to new/newer members until you know if they have a thick enough skin. I scared off someone once with 100+ comments. My bad. For most new members these days, when I find a lot to comment on, my first comment is usually words to the effect that some/many/most comments are just suggestions. The other thing I've also done at times is to highlight the most important stuff and offer to do another review if they want even more detail.
Marilyn and I have been going back and forth for a couple of days trying to figure out how to improve retention of new members who may be attracted to the site by contests.
All of what follows is open to discussion, but it also depends on what Sol believes is both wise and possible for him to do. We've tried to focus contest entry requirements to things that can be checked manually in the system to avoid the need for software development for contests.
Strongest Start: Although we discussed Strongest Start (SS), we need to attract members more quickly than that in the short term. We also discussed scaling back future SS contests so they could be done more often (e.g., limit entries to one per member, which focuses the contest on members submitting what they think is their highest quality entry, rather than on the number of entries per entrant; this also seems more fair). The upper word count should be limited to something sane, both for the sake of the judges and to encourage entrants to say more with less.
Contest-Related Suggestions
- more (regularly occurring) contests, especially in the short term; shorter contests with criteria that are easy on the judges (e.g., shorter word count, one entry per member, shorter contest window)
- contest entrants should be premium members at least on the day the contest closes (requires checking every entrant's membership status on the day the contest closes; this can be done manually); this requirement may limit how many outsiders are willing to enter contests, so it may not be a good idea; perhaps the membership requirement should be limited to Strongest Start, which has bigger prizes
- every prize for every contest should include free premium membership of some length for the winners and runners up; that reduces the actual cash cost of prizes for Sol and focuses the prizes on membership (one hopes people will stick around longer once having been a member); some (many?) contests might only offer membership, no cash, to keep costs down even more
- the contests should be advertised outside of TNBW (even if only on Booksie) so we get plenty of outside entries
- a key rule of the contests (ideally any contest going forward) should be that entrants have to do a certain number of "legitimate" reviews (5? 10? more?) of posted works on the site within the contest window; this forces those who are entering to do more than submit an entry; since reviewing styles differ, we could simply define legitimate as any review that meet's the site's basic requirements to pay points (i.e., 5 inline comments+closing comment OR a 50-word regular review)
- it seems like it would make sense to only check the posted reviews of potential winners to ensure they met the contest criteria and that their comments are real (as opposed to someone who enters bogus comments to pad their reviews); if one or more of the potential winners are disqualified, whoever is judging the contest would have to select additional potential winners to replace those who were disqualified; checking reviews can be done manually, so no software development is required
- we could also have somewhat harder contests requiring more reviews and more inline comments/longer regular reviews; this ought to encourage members entering the contest to improve their reviewing skills
EDITs:
- One more idea that came to mind might be contests that are open only to trial/new members, with the rest of us focused on reviewing their entries before the contest deadline.
Questions (for Sol):
- how do we avoid getting hit by large numbers of spam entries? Or is that something we even have to worry about?
- how do we avoid getting flooded with outside entries? Should the contest be limited to the first N entries?
- is it possible for Basic members to give and receive inline reviews? if they can, I'd suggest let them enter at least some of the contests since it would require them to use the review system here (regardless of how many points they have!) and have at least some interactions with existing members and the writing on this site as part of the contests
Marilyn, did I forget anything?
Thanks
Dirk
Nice, although Linear is kind of boring, but for all I know, it could be important to include it in the name.
This topic is closed for the time being while we focus on trying to revive TNBW, the discussions for which will be documented in the Reviving TNBW thread.
Copied from the Migrating to Booksie thread:
Keep in mind, 10 points yields many fewer reviews for trial users these days than it used to. If, instead, they get to post three chapters or stories, they may get more reviewers overall or the same reviewers multiple times. Either would help.
I think those of us sufficiently motivated to keep the site alive will simply have to do more reviewing of new users, at least until there are many more reviewers to share the load. With a 30-day trial, we can, hopefully, work them into our workloads.Also, we all should point trial/new users at a forum post entitled "How to Get the Most Reviews of Your Writing" that we put together a couple of years ago about things users can do to increase the number of reviews they receive. I put it back up after the crash (thank goodness for the Way Back Machine!). I made it sticky in both Premium and in Writing Tips & Site Help in case anyone wants to have a look and give me additional feedback.
I'm closing this thread for the time being in favor of another I posted called Reviving TNBW.
Copied from the Migrating to Booksie thread:
Hi Dirk,
Thanks to you and everyone else for those suggestions. I'm open to keeping TNBW going in its current form but agree there need to be some changes. I can make all of the changes you suggested. They are all relatively easy to implement. I do wonder if 30 days is too long but let's see. I also wonder if 30 points might be too much for the community to handle. Members will be posting but not receiving as much feedback. Especially if the ration is also decreased. The net effect of this will be to suck reviews out of the system. But maybe we need to get more people posting first and then we can dial back the points.
Let's also plan to launch a contest. If anyone has thoughts, let me know. Maybe a short story contest based on an image? Those have always been popular.
Sol
Copied from the Migrating to Booksie thread.
Thanks, Sol. As I mentioned in my first post, it was my understanding that you didn't feel you could keep running both sites indefinitely.
Combine that with the fact that the New Books (new chapters) scroll is virtually at a standstill, and that we keep losing long-term members without converting new ones to permanent membership, something has to change. Add in the lack of bug fixes (not many needed), minor enhancements (even fewer needed), and quick turnaround time for user support, and there's no obvious way to hang on to trial users. Contests may help, but to the best of my knowledge, we've kept almost no one who joined following the last one. Naturally the crash cost us users as well, but the trickle out has continued since then. And the more experienced users (among the best reviewers / mentors) we lose, the less value-add we have to offer over bigger sites, including Booksie.I don't know yet which extra support functions you're going to transition to me, but I hoped we'd find a way to transition user support (or at least make me a first contact for the easy stuff, and I could escalate to you if I don't have the ability to help them).
The rest is out of my control, although I've been discussing with other members what we could change to gain and keep more users. In addition to the things above, it includes policy changes you didn't want to make in the past (e.g., a 30-day trial so people really get to know us and the site before being asked to pay money, 30 points up front so trial users can post roughly 3 chapters and get reviews (to assess the quality of them and compare themselves to those reviewers) before they're forced to do them too (which can be quite intimidating), and making it easier for everyone to gain points or spend fewer points). Those of us who have been around a long time (not many left) have enough points to post War & Peace several times over, so it would most help new/newer users to make it easier to gain points to post.
As we all know, the real way to succeed on this site is to develop and maintain a network of reciprocal reviewers, and you can't do that unless you get to know people here and consistently trade reviews with them (something trial users need to understand going in). To do those things, you don't *really* need points. As a result, they're largely irrelevant, so why not make it easier for everyone who needs them to get them?
EDIT: I just checked the ratio of how much it costs to post a work vs. how much that work pays. It's currently 5:1, and Alan some months ago mentioned that it seemed like it took more effort (points) to post after the crash. Sol once told us in the forums (some years back) that he thought it was 4:1. Since the feed of new work is at a standstill and most people have left, why don't we overcompensate and make it 3:1?
Marilyn and I were just talking about a system yesterday that has a ratio of roughly 3:1 (3 points to post a piece of writing of any size, 1-2 points paid to each reviewer depending on length of review, although, I believe, full points are only paid for a short time (maybe a week?) while the posted piece is in an active queue; after that it pays less. But their "inline" comment system is a joke/painful compared to ours. Still, they claim that 85 users were on the site when I checked (no clue if they count those who are always logged in) and 650 the day before.
Why not lure some of that traffic this way, with a great up front trial, faster support, timely fixes/minor tweaks, a terrific inline comment system, and a points system that is less onerous than others? Add some advertising from Sol and a few contests, and if the site still doesn't pick up, then we can at least say we did everything we could. I'd be very surprised if the above changes didn't have a strong positive impact on permanent membership.
This thread is to capture posts and discussions related to steps needed to revive the site. I may close the Migrating thread for the time being. Below are a few posts copied over from the Migrating thread, including some of the things Sol has indicated can be done relatively easily. Naturally, time is of the essence.
EDIT: This is the old reviving thread. I renamed it to reflect where we are in this process. Also, I added a post for Sol at the end of this thread today (Saturday, August 31).
Awesome idea: I can replace Princess Stephanie (a doormat) with Nurse Catherine in the second act (the young leaders conference), and replace Paul Highlander, Joseph's 2nd cousin and best friend, who travels with him to Earth, in the third act. It's too bad about Paul since that reduces him to a short appearance in act 1 (he's present at the parade square massacre). But I can make Catherine be his older sister. That allows me to bring her into the story several times, and tie her to Paul, who is otherwise this unrelated character. Paul can come back for the dogfights in the final battle, while Catherine would accompany Joseph and Christian onboard Lupus's flagship to capture it from within. She could have training as a military medic, who accompany each raider's combat team when they board enemy vessels.
The final chapter(s) of act one are done. Technically it's one huge chapter, but I posted it in three parts. Now that I've cleaned it up, the dialogue and scenes are much more appropriate to the story of Joseph in a psych ward. Still has him naked, but the focus is on the relationship between him and the nurse. Terry liked their dynamic enough, he wants to see them get together as lovers at some point in the future. I feel the same way, but book one of this trilogy really has no good way way to slip her in given where the story is going. It also blows up the whole arc of Joseph coming to terms with his homosexuality, although I could have him conclude he's probably gay in book 1, then bring Catherine (the nurse) back in book 2, where he realizes he's actually bisexual.
The odds of finishing book 1? Slim.
The odds of writing book 2? Not a hope in hell if I want to finish the Connor trilogy.
Still, act 1 is now complete. I think I'll celebrate with a high fiber brownie. 
On to Connor v2...
I'll scroll back through maintenance and minor enhancement requests and pull out the easy wins for review in this thread before finalizing it for Sol.
Keep in mind, 10 points yields many fewer reviews for trial users these days than it used to. If, instead, they get to post three chapters or stories, they may get more reviewers overall or the same reviewers multiple times. Either would help.
I think those of us sufficiently motivated to keep the site alive will simply have to do more reviewing of new users, at least until there are many more reviewers to share the load. With a 30-day trial, we can, hopefully, work them into our workloads.
Also, we all should point trial/new users at a forum post entitled "How to Get the Most Reviews of Your Writing" that we put together a couple of years ago about things users can do to increase the number of reviews they receive. I put it back up after the crash (thank goodness for the Way Back Machine!). I made it sticky in both Premium and in Writing Tips & Site Help in case anyone wants to have a look and give me additional feedback.
Dirk
Thanks, Sol. As I mentioned in my first post, it was my understanding that you didn't feel you could keep running both sites indefinitely.
Combine that with the fact that the New Books (new chapters) scroll is virtually at a standstill, and that we keep losing long-term members without converting new ones to permanent membership, something has to change. Add in the lack of bug fixes (not many needed), minor enhancements (even fewer needed), and quick turnaround time for user support, and there's no obvious way to hang on to trial users. Contests may help, but to the best of my knowledge, we've kept almost no one who joined following the last one. Naturally the crash cost us users as well, but the trickle out has continued since then. And the more experienced users (among the best reviewers / mentors) we lose, the less value-add we have to offer over bigger sites, including Booksie.
I don't know yet which extra support functions you're going to transition to me, but I hoped we'd find a way to transition user support (or at least make me a first contact for the easy stuff, and I could escalate to you if I don't have the ability to help them).
The rest is out of my control, although I've been discussing with other members what we could change to gain and keep more users. In addition to the things above, it includes policy changes you didn't want to make in the past (e.g., a 30-day trial so people really get to know us and the site before being asked to pay money, 30 points up front so trial users can post roughly 3 chapters and get reviews (to assess the quality of them and compare themselves to those reviewers) before they're forced to do them too (which can be quite intimidating), and making it easier for everyone to gain points or spend fewer points). Those of us who have been around a long time (not many left) have enough points to post War & Peace several times over, so it would most help new/newer users to make it easier to gain points to post.
As we all know, the real way to succeed on this site is to develop and maintain a network of reciprocal reviewers, and you can't do that unless you get to know people here and consistently trade reviews with them (something trial users need to understand going in). To do those things, you don't *really* need points. As a result, they're largely irrelevant, so why not make it easier for everyone who needs them to get them?
EDIT: I just checked the ratio of how much it costs to post a work vs. how much that work pays. It's currently 5:1, and Alan some months ago mentioned that it seemed like it took more effort (points) to post after the crash. Sol once told us in the forums (some years back) that he thought it was 4:1. Since the feed of new work is at a standstill and most people have left, why don't we overcompensate and make it 3:1?
Marilyn and I were just talking about a system yesterday that has a ratio of roughly 3:1 (3 points to post a piece of writing of any size, 1-2 points paid to each reviewer depending on length of review, although, I believe, full points are only paid for a short time (maybe a week?) while the posted piece is in an active queue; after that it pays less. But their "inline" comment system is a joke/painful compared to ours. Still, they claim that 85 users were on the site when I checked (no clue if they count those who are always logged in) and 650 the day before.
Why not lure some of that traffic this way, with a great up front trial, faster support, timely fixes/minor tweaks, a terrific inline comment system, and a points system that is less onerous than others? Add some advertising from Sol and a few contests, and if the site still doesn't pick up, then we can at least say we did everything we could. I'd be very surprised if the above changes didn't have a strong positive impact on permanent membership.
I don't know how much effort it would take to keep it running in pure maintenance mode, and I don't have the required skills for development of bug fixes and minor enhancements for this site's technology. We would probably need a small number of minor changes to make the site more likely to attract and keep new users. And those would have to be done quickly, before we lose any more members.
Plus, I'd rather write. 
yup, he's gone
Gone and gone. Thanks
Quite a bit of fizzling, and then a lot of people didn't come back after the crash, so we're on life support. I'm looking at Booksie (our sister site, also run by Sol) to see if it could be a viable alternative for us since the New Books (chapters) section on the home page here has come to a virtual standstill. Booksie is very similar to TNBW, but is actively maintained with new/more features, minor enhancements, bug fixes, etc. And more users! TNBW, while still a great site (I prefer the look and feel of TNBW over Booksie), has been mostly in maintenance mode for a couple of years. Sol simply doesn't have the time to keep both sites going indefinitely. I'm going to be taking over some of the easy admin/support tasks later this month from him to give him a break. I'd love to revive this site, but it would remain in maintenance mode since Sol simply doesn't have the time to build features for both sites.
Got 'em. Thanks, Bill.
