>>What are some things that the best kinds of writing you come across have in common?

They tell a great story. While there are many elements to writing well, and many books on how to do that (some of which you should consider buying and reading), I'd say a great story is the most important. Right from the book blurb to the very first sentence. Grab your reader and don't let go. Readers will forgive a few imperfections in someone's writing if they get that one element right. Also, since you're just starting out, approach the work with the expectation that you will have to do multiple (many?) drafts, especially that first sentence, paragraph, page, and chapter. But don't get paralyzed trying to perfect them before moving on. The very act of writing the novel will almost certainly alter what you want to say at the beginning.

On a site like this, where you can get widely varying feedback from different authors (including quite a few who are published), you'll quickly learn many of the elements that go into writing well. But it's not just their feedback that's very important. So is reading and studying their writing, so you can decide which elements of each author's writing or storytelling style you like and may want to emulate versus those you don't. Do the same with novels you've read that you enjoyed, but this time, approach them from what the author can teach you. For the stories I write, I particularly like Frank Herbert's Dune novels, as well as Dan Brown's Angels & Demons. I've reread both many times.

The points system on this site, while not as onerous (anymore) as other workshop sites, still requires you to read and critique other members' stories. Approach those from the perspective of what their writing can teach you; collecting the points to post is of secondary importance to exposing yourself to many different writing and storytelling styles.

This is where a lot of would-be authors give up. They realize that writing that first successful novel is a lot of work beyond just writing. Anybody can write, but most people don't do it particularly well at the beginning. There are authors here who will tell you they thought their first written work was great until they joined this site and realized how much there was to learn. Some of those same authors are now published and among the most skilled on this site. I have an IT background that has always included technical writing, and I can tell you, my first attempt at a novel, which I thought was pretty good at the outset, I now realize was total crap. Taser-stunningly bad. :-)

You'll probably get a lot more feedback to this post as it's a great topic. Be sure to look at the forum article entitled "How to Get the Most Reviews of Your Writing" (pinned at the top of this forum), which should help you maximize how much feedback you get during your trial and help you decide if this approach to writing and learning to write suits you. I've been here 12 years, others even longer, and for us this approach to writing and learning is ideal. It's also how most online critique sites work. The most important aspect to getting lots of reviews is to give lots reviews. Be sure to keep your posted chapters to a reasonable size (see the above article for suggested length/wordcount) to help the most number of readers here find the time to review your story during your trial period.

Is your currently posted work, Life Extension Program, the lgbtq+ psychological drama you were referring to? I'm a bit swamped this coming week, but I'll do my best to get to it. FYI, one of my two novels currently in progress, Archangel Syndrome, is sci-fi with a number of gay characters living on a conservative Christian world. It's a great way to explore the issues arising from that, including the evolution in the thinking of the planet's sixteen-year-old crown prince, Joseph, one of the story's two main characters, who has a lot of evolving to do, especially since he himself may be gay and is horrified by the possibility. :-)

Welcome to the site.
Dirk

552

(3 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

If you have something you want to post for review and you have the points to do so, I suggest trying to see if you can. That would quickly answer the most important question (whether non-paying members can post after their trial is over).

553

(3 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

That's the direction Sol (the site admin) is considering going in, although we hadn't heard that he already implemented any changes for that.

Non-paying users would (I hope) be able to read stories posted on the site, judge the quality of the writing (i.e., are there people on the site whose writing you feel you can learn from?), explore the quality of the reviews given to others to ensure you'll get the level of feedback you desire, do reviews of your own and collect points in preparation for becoming a paying user, get familiar with the system, interact with paying users who might become potential critiquing partners for you, etc., and then, if the site seems sufficiently valuable (it is!), they could convert to a paying user and start posting.

Some of the above details of how the site may work have not been announced as definite, so big grain of salt there. It's similar to a site model that was used on the old TNBW site, and it seemed to work better at attracting and retaining members than the current trials, without burdening existing members with having to review posts from every trial member only to have most of them disappear.

554

(35 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Thanks

555

(35 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

If I take too long to write a forum post, the system will log me out. Seems to happen when I leave my browser (Chrome) pointing too long at a specific forum post or forum. For example, I currently have my text cursor in the Post Reply field of this thread (Reviving TNBW). If I were to walk away, it logs me out pretty quickly. It also logs me out pretty quickly if I take too long writing a post like this reply to you. Usually, that's merely a nuisance (if I attempt to post my reply to this thread and the system has already logged me out, it will still post it, after which I have to log back in). This happens a lot.

The problem is greatest if I try to post a new topic and I take too long. Not only won't it save what I wrote, even the browser's back button won't get me back to what I wrote. This bug hits those who write long forum posts hardest since everything you wrote is gone. It happened to at least one new user some months ago that I know of. It also happened to me several times. Naturally, a new user who loses an hour's worth of typing isn't going to be happy.

These days, I usually (though not always) remember to copy the content of my forum post to the clipboard in case I run into this bug.


EDIT: For example, it kicked me out while I was writing this reply.

556

(35 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Dirk B. wrote:

The timeout bug in the forums still exists. Sol, was any attempt made to eliminate that bug, or am I testing the original version with the timeouts?

Sol, I'm not sure if you saw my previous post. The timeout problem in the forums still exists. Has anything changed with regard to this bug?

Thanks
Dirk

557

(35 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

The timeout bug in the forums still exists. Sol, was any attempt made to eliminate that bug, or am I testing the original version with the timeouts?

Strange problem.

You may remember, I was toying with an alternate timeline (the story timeline) to explain why things aren't going as expected when reading Revelation in that timeline. I intended to explain it with the idea that our Bible is not only inerrant but is also the only true Bible, and because it's supernatural, it's also the only Bible out there in every timeline. So, the story's timeline has an inerrant, supernatural Bible from our timeline, yet events along the story's timeline don't match the Bible, nor should they since our Bible was written for our timeline, not the story's timeline.

The alternative, I realized, is to not even mention another timeline. Instead, John wrote Revelation based on his visions of how the future will unfold (without a challenge from Satan). However, the very act of writing that, which Satan read, led to the challenge, invalidating what John had written.

But! Had John foreseen the challenge and written about it, Satan would not have issued the challenge since the second version also predicts Satan will lose.

So, whatever John writes, causes it not to happen. Yet somehow, the Bible is supposed to be inerrant. Yikes!

I'll have to find some way to document the above crazy inter-dependency between the two versions. Perhaps I should write that, although the Bible contains only one version of Revelation, either version (both of which are inerrant!) could come to pass, and humans simply have to wait for the future to unfold to see what happens.

The confusing thing for the reader is that the fake version of Revelation, written by Satan, will be erroneously regarded as one of the two inerrant versions. And some of it (the existence of a challenge) will be true. It was issued and God accepted. Although predictions made in the fraudulent version come true, it's because Satan makes sure they come true (e.g., various wars and assassinations) to lend unquestionable credibility to his version. And his version also (falsely) predicts Christ returning as a child.

I could write a third version (which is the version, with the challenge, that actually unfolds in the story, with the Antichrist masquerading as Christ). That's one of the two inerrant versions noted above. However, three versions of Revelation is a lot for the reader to wrap their mind around. If I include a third version, it would only appear at the end of the book. Of course, if that version exists and is found, it would predict the end of my trilogy, where Satan loses, which spoils a key part of the ending. That clearly suggests, I shouldn't write a third version.

Are your heads spinning yet?

559

(46 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Why is your em-dash so short? Mine (from MS Word) looks like so: —
Yours (copied from above) looks like so: –
Since your en-dash is likely shorter, I'd hate to see how short your hyphen is. smile

So, Sol, would there still be trial members who gain temporary access to premium membership? And would they be allowed to post anything at all before being required to pay?

Keep in mind, we've been having a lot of trouble getting trial members to convert to permanent membership for a long time, even with the ability to post during the trial.

Would it be worth offering a discount for the first three months of membership or even the whole first year?

561

(46 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Is that a review site? A contest?

562

(35 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

By the way, Sol, are you advertising the current newbie contest anywhere? I know I saw an ad about our site on Booksie a while ago. I'm just curious if you did anything specific for the contest.

Thanks
Dirk

563

(35 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Hi Sol.

I noticed/tested most of the fixes you made.
I'm pretty sure the timeout problem in the forums is gone too. I'm just doing a few more timeout test cases.

These changes rock!

Thank you very much.
Dirk

I think it's a great idea, Sol. Many of us have wasted oodles of time reviewing people who don't stay.

It would also be great, as Marilyn noted, if they had to reply to their reviews before they could post more.

Thanks
Dirk

565

(11 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Treewoman61, below is a link to a site page of what you should be paying. If you think you're being charged $20/month, please contact SolN.

https://www.thenextbigwriter.com/guide/about-us

Thanks
Dirk

Thanks, Sol. Is there a link to a description of the contest? I'd be interested to know the details.
EDIT: Ignore; I found it.

Thanks
Dirk

Marilyn wrote:

I think we should not coddle contest entrants.

A little coddling may be reasonable in the short term since we're trying to add new users quickly. The contest ought to be just hard enough to keep out anyone who isn't even willing to do a few reviews. Without doing that, they won't really experience the site and its benefits (see my previous post). Since many of them will be doing a trial, they ought to be doing reviews anyway, so here's a chance for them to win something (membership) while doing something they should be doing anyway. Perhaps three reviews? Five? The total number ought to be commensurate with the value of the prize and the length of the contest (keep in mind, the trials only last two weeks at present).

Kdot wrote:

You join an Amazon contest for a gift card, but to earn the GiftCard you have to leave a review on (this list of) kindle stories

If Amazon were using the contest to flesh out its reviews of books, then it seems reasonable that if you want to win, you have to do N reviews from your library.

We want to encourage people to do reviews (i.e., try out the inline review system, which is one of the best out there; read the work of other writers on this site to see the caliber of the writers here; trade reviews with others to see the quality of the reviews they can get; and begin to interact with other writers on this site, most of whom are fairly experienced and knowledgeable).

If they're not willing to do even a few reviews, they won't experience the things noted above. Besides, they're going to be on the site anyway doing a trial; this just adds another incentive to really try us out.

I agree on both counts. smile Perhaps do it only on the contest for all members. And if you keep the requirement easy (2-3 reviews?), anyone serious would probably still enter, while anyone too lazy to even do that isn't going to succeed on our site.

Thanks, Sol. Will you include a requirement on one or both contests for entrants to do some reviewing on the site within the contest window?

571

(11 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Folks I know who always recip: Jack, Marilyn, and Terry (tdp). Randy usually does, although he just moved to the US from overseas.

572

(11 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Found it. I am blind (not for the first time). I don't regularly read romance, but now is a good time to read one again. smile. I'm just wrapping up a kitchen upgrade today, but will read chapter 1 by the end of the week, if not sooner.

573

(11 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Found it. I am blind. I don't normally read romance, but now is a good time to read one again. smile. I'm just wrapping up a kitchen upgrade today, but will read chapter 1 by the end of the week, if not sooner.

574

(11 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Hi Treewoman61. We did indeed experience a major slowdown in critiques due to a loss of members, especially after the server crash. Sol has just made some policy changes that should bring in new users (easier to gather points, more points for new users, and a longer up front trial), including more contests. Strange thing is, I haven't seen your user name on my home page in a long time. Are you posting to Premium? If so, I must be blind.

Check out a post (thread) In the Premium forum with tips on maximizing the number of reviews you receive (it's posted near the top of the forum).

Also, what's the name of your posted work?

We don't want to lose anyone, so hopefully you can give us a little more time once we find it. Posting here and asking for reviews is exactly the right thing to do.

Why are you paying $20 per month? Is that the cost of the monthly plan? I'm on the yearly plan, which costs way less per month. Perhaps someone else on the site can weigh in with the actual yearly cost.

575

(309 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

I'm just finalizing a few things in act one of Archangel + I have to apply plenty of minor edits I've already received, then I'll stop working on it except for an expected trickle of further feedback from a few new reviewers.

I'm pretty sure you read fairly recent versions of everything in act one of Archangel except the final 3-part chapter. I haven't put all of act one back up yet post-crash to slow the influx of reviews (I'm falling too far behind my reviewers).

I also have plenty of recent suggested edits to add to Connor v1.

Doing all of the above will probably take until the end of August. After that, almost all my time will go toward Connor v2.