Topic: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

Marilyn and I have been going back and forth for a couple of days trying to figure out how to improve retention of new members who may be attracted to the site by contests.

All of what follows is open to discussion, but it also depends on what Sol believes is both wise and possible for him to do. We've tried to focus contest entry requirements to things that can be checked manually in the system to avoid the need for software development for contests.


Strongest Start: Although we discussed Strongest Start (SS), we need to attract members more quickly than that in the short term. We also discussed scaling back future SS contests so they could be done more often (e.g., limit entries to one per member, which focuses the contest on members submitting what they think is their highest quality entry, rather than on the number of entries per entrant; this also seems more fair). The upper word count should be limited to something sane, both for the sake of the judges and to encourage entrants to say more with less.


Contest-Related Suggestions
- more (regularly occurring) contests, especially in the short term; shorter contests with criteria that are easy on the judges (e.g., shorter word count, one entry per member, shorter contest window)
- contest entrants should be premium members at least on the day the contest closes (requires checking every entrant's membership status on the day the contest closes; this can be done manually); this requirement may limit how many outsiders are willing to enter contests, so it may not be a good idea; perhaps the membership requirement should be limited to Strongest Start, which has bigger prizes
- every prize for every contest should include free premium membership of some length for the winners and runners up; that reduces the actual cash cost of prizes for Sol and focuses the prizes on membership (one hopes people will stick around longer once having been a member); some (many?) contests might only offer membership, no cash, to keep costs down even more
- the contests should be advertised outside of TNBW (even if only on Booksie) so we get plenty of outside entries
- a key rule of the contests (ideally any contest going forward) should be that entrants have to do a certain number of "legitimate" reviews (5? 10? more?) of posted works on the site within the contest window; this forces those who are entering to do more than submit an entry; since reviewing styles differ, we could simply define legitimate as any review that meet's the site's basic requirements to pay points (i.e., 5 inline comments+closing comment OR a 50-word regular review)
- it seems like it would make sense to only check the posted reviews of potential winners to ensure they met the contest criteria and that their comments are real (as opposed to someone who enters bogus comments to pad their reviews); if one or more of the potential winners are disqualified, whoever is judging the contest would have to select additional potential winners to replace those who were disqualified; checking reviews can be done manually, so no software development is required
- we could also have somewhat harder contests requiring more reviews and more inline comments/longer regular reviews; this ought to encourage members entering the contest to improve their reviewing skills

EDITs:
- One more idea that came to mind might be contests that are open only to trial/new members, with the rest of us focused on reviewing their entries before the contest deadline.


Questions (for Sol):
- how do we avoid getting hit by large numbers of spam entries? Or is that something we even have to worry about?
- how do we avoid getting flooded with outside entries? Should the contest be limited to the first N entries?
- is it possible for Basic members to give and receive inline reviews? if they can, I'd suggest let them enter at least some of the contests since it would require them to use the review system here (regardless of how many points they have!) and have at least some interactions with existing members and the writing on this site as part of the contests


Marilyn, did I forget anything?

Thanks
Dirk

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

Dirk B. wrote:

Marilyn, did I forget anything?

Thanks
Dirk

I think you get the blue ribbon for remembering all the stuff you and I have discussed over the last week (even if I did accidentally call you brain-dead... LOL)! Good job, because you and I have burned up the New Message department here.

I think the main thing new members do not understand from the beginning is they will receive a bunch of blue marks on their work, but it's only to help them grow in their writing craft. In the other thread, Alan mentioned how the blue marks seemed to bother the writers he knew who looked at our site, but I think it's because they don't understand the purpose of it. Where else can you get a free line-edit?  We should also, maybe in a welcome letter of some kind, encourage them to respond to the reviews they receive here. Most of the other sites I've checked out don't require any acknowledgment, and they may not be expecting it here. But that's how to develop friendships on this site.

I like the contests, and I think it encourages new members. Whether they stay depends on how we, as older members, respond to them. Maybe we should have a welcoming committee. I will do my part to encourage the newbies to post more than just their contest entry.

Overall, Dirk, you nailed it with everything we have discussed. Now it's up to Sol to decide what our next steps should be. Let me know how I can help, and hopefully some of our current members will throw some suggestions our way.

Happy trails,
MJ

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

I learned how important it is to moderate feedback to new/newer members until you know if they have a thick enough skin. I scared off someone once with 100+ comments. My bad. For most new members these days, when I find a lot to comment on, my first comment is usually words to the effect that some/many/most comments are just suggestions. The other thing I've also done at times is to highlight the most important stuff and offer to do another review if they want even more detail.

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

Thanks. I'm going to review these ideas and get back to you shorty I definitely want to launch some contests soon so this is very helpful.

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

One more idea that came to mind might be contests that are open only to trial/new members, with the rest of us focused on reviewing their entries before the contest deadline.

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

Dirk B. wrote:

One more idea that came to mind might be contests that are open only to trial/new members, with the rest of us focused on reviewing their entries before the contest deadline.

This is a really good idea.

dags:)

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

dagny wrote:

This is a really good idea.
dags:)

Thanks. I've been known to have a few. smile smile smile

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

I'm going to launch two contests this weekend. As Dirk suggested, one of them will be a new member contest. I'm thinking a New Member Short Story Contest. That way, the member doesn't have to write anything new and they can post any short story they have already written.

I also have a contest in mind for all members.

More to come!

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

Thanks, Sol. Will you include a requirement on one or both contests for entrants to do some reviewing on the site within the contest window?

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

Thanks, Sol. Will you include a requirement on one or both contests for entrants to do some reviewing on the site within the contest window?

I'm debating that one. It would get them more involved, but it also has the potential to turn them off before they're even started. Thoughts?

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

I agree on both counts. smile Perhaps do it only on the contest for all members. And if you keep the requirement easy (2-3 reviews?), anyone serious would probably still enter, while anyone too lazy to even do that isn't going to succeed on our site.

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

Dirk B. wrote:

I agree on both counts. smile Perhaps do it only on the contest for all members. And if you keep the requirement easy (2-3 reviews?), anyone serious would probably still enter, while anyone too lazy to even do that isn't going to succeed on our site.

I think we should not coddle contest entrants. This is a writing workshop site where people come to exchange ideas on writing techniques. If they are only dropping in for the contest with no intentions of staying, we will never grow and the contests are in vain. But making the requirement to review others more stringent isn't asking for much.. It's how we build relationships on here, which in turn encourages long-term memberships.

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

Mirror this outside of TNBW:

You join an Amazon contest for a gift card, but to earn the GiftCard you have to leave a review on (this list of) kindle stories

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

Kdot wrote:

You join an Amazon contest for a gift card, but to earn the GiftCard you have to leave a review on (this list of) kindle stories

If Amazon were using the contest to flesh out its reviews of books, then it seems reasonable that if you want to win, you have to do N reviews from your library.

We want to encourage people to do reviews (i.e., try out the inline review system, which is one of the best out there; read the work of other writers on this site to see the caliber of the writers here; trade reviews with others to see the quality of the reviews they can get; and begin to interact with other writers on this site, most of whom are fairly experienced and knowledgeable).

If they're not willing to do even a few reviews, they won't experience the things noted above. Besides, they're going to be on the site anyway doing a trial; this just adds another incentive to really try us out.

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

Marilyn wrote:

I think we should not coddle contest entrants.

A little coddling may be reasonable in the short term since we're trying to add new users quickly. The contest ought to be just hard enough to keep out anyone who isn't even willing to do a few reviews. Without doing that, they won't really experience the site and its benefits (see my previous post). Since many of them will be doing a trial, they ought to be doing reviews anyway, so here's a chance for them to win something (membership) while doing something they should be doing anyway. Perhaps three reviews? Five? The total number ought to be commensurate with the value of the prize and the length of the contest (keep in mind, the trials only last two weeks at present).

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

Hi all,

I launched the new contest for newbies as you requested. Let's see how it goes. It requires three reviews.

Sol

Re: Proposed Ideas for Contests Moving Forward

Thanks, Sol. Is there a link to a description of the contest? I'd be interested to know the details.
EDIT: Ignore; I found it.

Thanks
Dirk