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(9 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Randall Krzak wrote:

In addition, I’ve started work on the first of three volumes with a historical thriller set in Boston. The tentative title is: New World Revolution, and will be about an English tenant family who loses their tenancy and land in America just before the Boston Tea Party.

Sounds like a great story! smile

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(19 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

I'm on Chrome & haven't noticed any delays. You've probably tried switching browsers, Bill, but if not I thought I'd mention it. Sometimes things lag on my end depending on the browser.

Dill Carver wrote:

Insurrection by Robyn Young

Historical novel based upon medieval Scotland. I’m new to Robyn Young and have found her a very decent writer. This is the first in a trilogy and I will buy and read the following two novels.

Medieval Scotland is my heritage! I've traced back to Kilbirnie in the William Wallace days.

I'm on the last book in the Tolkien trilogy {The Return of the King} & have begun The Passing Bells by Phillip Rock. The latter is set on an English country estate just before the outbreak of the First World War. It's the start of a trilogy. I've only read the first hundred pages, but so far I'd recommend it to your mother. I remember you saying she loves Downton Abbey. This has a similar theme. smile

You'll come out of the other side, short with unruly wild hair, enlarged hairy feet complete with webbed toes and a short temper with a tendency to stab humans who threaten your precious things.

I realise that you had a head start within these matters and that the transition will be minor; but a transition all the same.

Ha! I got there from reading Scarlett O'Hara, & Gussy the Goose in Charlotte's Web! lol

I might have to read the two in conjunction.

Sapsorrow wrote:

salty bullion

{Aside} Hello, you! <3

We learned to whisper almost without sound. In the semi-darkness we could stretch out our arms, when the Aunts weren’t looking, and touch each other’s hands across space. We learned to lip-read, our heads flat on the beds, turned sideways, watching each other’s mouths. In this way we exchanged names, from bed to bed: Alma. Janine. Dolores. Moira. June.

I like that Atwood doesn't depict a specific scene here. There's no actual exchange of dialogue, so the reader is permitted to imagine the scene elongated over weeks. She offers just enough -- I LOVE that detail of the arms stretching -- to imply what the reader can then assume is a prolonged period of silent communication, as a sistership is formed in hushed notes. Yet it passes in only a brief paragraph, like a memory. I believe that ability to say volumes in few words adds to the richness in this description, because it happens so swiftly yet says so much. And the detail! Specific names, listed off as if they're exchanged, or related, down the line of the beds. The detail of them lying sideways, watching each other's lips. All of that in a remarkably short space.

There was old sex in the room and loneliness, and expectation, of something without a shape or name. I remember that yearning, for something that was always about to happen and was never the same as the hands that were on us there and then, in the small of the back, or out back, in the parking lot, or in the television room with the sound turned down and only the pictures flickering over lifting flesh.

I'd say the same on this passage. "Old sex in the room." Oh my! SO MUCH is said in that single line. So much is described that needs no description. It's the perfect choice of words. Economy. I feel that I am IN that room with that single line. And the listing of the way the hands touch -- by listing it out, she separates each moment into its own scene, so you see them as a series of touches over a long period of time. She is again creating a sense of time passing, in only a few words. Each day is separated by a comma. "Or in the television room with the sound turned down and only the pictures flickering over lifting flesh." The list builds to this LONG, LONG moment that is its own scene passing before you realize you read it. The hands are on them "in the small of the back, or out back, in the parking lot" -- these lines are brief and succinct. Then Atwood stops everything for "or in the television room with the sound turned down and only the pictures flickering over lifting flesh." And it's as if you're holding your breath and that moment goes on forever.

I go out by the back door, into the garden, which is large and tidy: a lawn in the middle, a willow, weeping catkins: around the edges, the flower borders, in which the daffodils are now fading and the tulips are opening their cups, spilling out colour. The tulips are red, a darker crimson towards the stem, as if they have been cut and are beginning to heal there.

It's as if she is describing the women as she describes the garden: "the daffodils are now fading and the tulips are opening their cups, spilling out colour. The tulips are red, a darker crimson towards the stem, as if they have been cut and are beginning to heal there." For me that's a delicate, sexual, terrible description, because you want to find the flowers beautiful, but they belong to the commander's wife. I love that she gives us the image before she lets us know this garden is a prison, and the flowers are, like the women, owned. " Many of the Wives have such gardens, it's something for them to order and maintain and care for." And so the wives are imprisoned as well. A garden of enclosed people to own and admire.

Atwood's layered pacing is admirable. She offers just enough, and then disarms with truth. The detail in the passages above is stunning. I feel that her work is so visual because she describes the exquisite things a close-up camera lens would catch, such as a fraying piece of thread where there was once a button. I don't know why that makes it more real, but it does.

Your thoughts? x

Cinematic detail, that.

I've been reading through Tolkien {The Hobbit & the trilogy} and C. S. Lewis {his novels & essays}. What can I say? I became curious. I will probably be in their worlds for a while longer. I have several books left.

Oh! That sounds piping good. Added to my list!

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1c/43/cb/1c43cbc3ff4258b87235b0942abc45ba.jpg

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(4 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

I think I saw the Clint Eastwood / Morgan FreemanThe Unforgiven. I will not be watching the 1960 version. Really, the old Westerns are not my genre. Just looking at the trailers I begin to recoil. Life is too short. I'd rather watch Chaplin, or indeed, stare at a blank wall.

True Grit looks endurable. {I watched the 2010 trailer. Not sure if you were referring to something else. I LOVE the Johhny Cash in the background of the trailer.}

The 2007 3:10 To Yuma looks endurable, but I feel that I could live and die never seeing it and not miss much. I will never purposefully watch the prior version. Again, it's me, not the film. I can't stand the old western genre.

I like that Kurt Russell is in The Hateful Eight, but that's about all that interested me in the trailer. At least the trailer didn't shout at me that he was GOOD AND KIND AND JUST A LONELY MAN TRYING TO GET BY, as every single other trailer has done so far today.

The Outlaw Josey Wells looks more endurable than the others. I can't imagine I'd ever purposefully watch it. I'd rather be doing other things...

I stand behind Dances With Wolves. cool

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(4 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

I've never seen Lonesome Dove. A proper suggestion. Do you know what else is good? The Assassination of Jesse James.

Bleh, Shane. I highly doubt I'll attempt it ever again. I might try the book. Then I can imagine it filmed my own way.

I have no desire whatsoever to watch The Searchers or Rio Bravo.

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(4 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

I had planned to watch your Shane as well as my mother's How the West Was Won this week, but I'm afraid I lasted about twenty minutes on both & frayed into this:

https://images.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1380950641ra/3484714.gif

It's me! Not the movies. I generally love classics {although not usually classics from the 1950s because cinema was going through a weird "let's make sure the women are all presented as chirrupy happy homemakers" phase that sets my teeth gritting -- the forties were a better decade for actresses, pardon me}, so I can't handle a Western from so long ago. I could tell from the over-the-top booming previews that these would not be for me, but I did try. Something about the style back then {sing-songy, over-the-top polite dialogue, strange extremely colorful background, and stiff I assume it's supposed to be intense acting} just doesn't work for me. A Western should be gritty, not so stagey. Not that I'm an expert! I haven't actually watched that many.

Anyway, I have stopped in here to confess my complete lack of knowledge on this topic, since I gave you a hard time in the other thread* & to inform the ages that I assure you, based upon the many impenetrable credentials I've outlined above, that {Dances With Wolves} is the best Western film of all time. I watched it today to cleanse my palette of the other films. My goodness, it's perfect. The scene with the wolf eating from his hand! The flag flying over his face. The deep friendships he builds. I don't know why anyone would watch those other sore thumbs when such a film exists.

My remarks are open to speculation.

Sincerely, corra.

*Pardon me, you asked for it.

... in shiny glassware!

Hi Judy,

I got your response and was just looking at your entry again. What if you remove the lines "Nicole’s grief shifted—just a little. Three lives were saved that day" altogether? Try reading the story again without those lines, simply ending "A woman scooped up the screaming baby and soothed it until he quieted." I feel that the ending you want readers to take away is strongly implied when you don't say it, and is actually weakened when you say it yourself. I initially suggested adding a line of action to imply that Nicole makes the choice you want readers to see. I actually think it's stronger just ending it at "until he quieted."

Possibly I'm way off, but I wanted to make the suggestion. I think not saying it resonates far stronger and gives the story a sense of continuation. By saying it, you basically say "THE END" and give the reader nothing to think about. As the writer, you know the message you want conveyed, but art is {in my humble opinion} most powerful when it gives the reader room to arrive there independently. Then it resonates.

Best wishes, whatever you choose!

- corra

"You do not do, you do not do. Any more, black {shoe.}"

“There she blows!-there she blows! A hump like a snow-hill! It is Moby Dick!”
― Herman Melville, Moby Dick, or the Whale.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

{enunciation}

covfefe

Valjean

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(11 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Gacela, that is some really brilliant feedback. Especially your conclusion. Thank you. I'm really glad I asked here. x

{most deliciously}

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(11 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

I'd forgotten about Moby-Dick. That's one of my favorite novels and an excellent example. Ishmael is involved in the tale, but he isn't the focal character who affects the change in the story. That's Ahab. The novel would be completely different through Ahab's eyes. The point is what Ishmael sees. That's exactly what I'm talking about. THANKS, Don! :-)

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(11 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Can the protagonist in a novel be someone other than the POV character {narrator}?

I'm telling a story through the eyes of someone who meets and befriends the protagonist. I'd say my POV character is the sidekick in the novel, not the protagonist. We never get into the protagonist's viewpoint. We experience his plight entirely through the sidekick {narrator}'s observations.

I do this so that the protagonist {the most interesting character} remains a mysterious figure throughout, sort of like Jay Gatsby.

I've been told in the past that the POV character MUST be the protagonist, because the troubles all fall on him, and the reader wants to know his thinking as it's happening. In a creative writing class, my professor told me that the POV character has to want things in every scene, and face obstacles. I had shown her a clip from my novel, and she was astonished that the POV character isn't at the center of things in the scene I shared. Meanwhile, he wouldn't be. He is shy, retiring, inclined to hang back and observe without saying much. The perfect narrator, I reckon! He shares with the reader, just not the people actually walking around in the story.

I want my POV character to meet and watch the protagonist, and pretty distantly comment on problems the protagonist is facing, until WELL into the novel, when he starts to realize how deeply he's weaved into the protagonist's tale. He will have is own character arc, but it won't be nearly as strong as the protagonist's. Not until the end of the novel.

For me this works, and is exactly what I'd want to read. I wouldn't want the protagonist's viewpoint. Not in this story. I'd want the distance, and the quiet character arc of the sidekick narrator, whose own story won't be at all obvious at first.

I feel that telling the tale through the protagonist's viewpoint would STRONGLY alter the story by making it predictable, trite and obvious. The protagonist faces the most troubles. The story revolves around him. But he isn't my narrator. The tale isn't his by the end. He affects the narrator because of his story, and THAT is the story.

My gut is steering me in a way that doesn't seem to follow all the writer advice. Anyone have advice? Thanks!

- corra

You're welcome, Gray. And thanks to you too. smile