1 (edited by corra 2017-05-30 13:33:25)

Topic: Writer question.

Can the protagonist in a novel be someone other than the POV character {narrator}?

I'm telling a story through the eyes of someone who meets and befriends the protagonist. I'd say my POV character is the sidekick in the novel, not the protagonist. We never get into the protagonist's viewpoint. We experience his plight entirely through the sidekick {narrator}'s observations.

I do this so that the protagonist {the most interesting character} remains a mysterious figure throughout, sort of like Jay Gatsby.

I've been told in the past that the POV character MUST be the protagonist, because the troubles all fall on him, and the reader wants to know his thinking as it's happening. In a creative writing class, my professor told me that the POV character has to want things in every scene, and face obstacles. I had shown her a clip from my novel, and she was astonished that the POV character isn't at the center of things in the scene I shared. Meanwhile, he wouldn't be. He is shy, retiring, inclined to hang back and observe without saying much. The perfect narrator, I reckon! He shares with the reader, just not the people actually walking around in the story.

I want my POV character to meet and watch the protagonist, and pretty distantly comment on problems the protagonist is facing, until WELL into the novel, when he starts to realize how deeply he's weaved into the protagonist's tale. He will have is own character arc, but it won't be nearly as strong as the protagonist's. Not until the end of the novel.

For me this works, and is exactly what I'd want to read. I wouldn't want the protagonist's viewpoint. Not in this story. I'd want the distance, and the quiet character arc of the sidekick narrator, whose own story won't be at all obvious at first.

I feel that telling the tale through the protagonist's viewpoint would STRONGLY alter the story by making it predictable, trite and obvious. The protagonist faces the most troubles. The story revolves around him. But he isn't my narrator. The tale isn't his by the end. He affects the narrator because of his story, and THAT is the story.

My gut is steering me in a way that doesn't seem to follow all the writer advice. Anyone have advice? Thanks!

- corra

2 (edited by Don Chambers 2017-05-30 14:30:29)

Re: Writer question.

I think you can definitely have the protagonist be different than the narrator. I know of several examples like this -- Moby Dick, the Great Gatsby come to mind. All are older literature, though, so it has fallen out of vogue. I can't think of anything published in the last fifty years that has done it. Still, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try it.

The one limitation I think is that you need to keep the narrator the same throughout the book, so you will not be able to switch POV. First person would seem the best POV in this case.

I personally would like to see you try it!

3 (edited by corra 2017-05-30 14:38:56)

Re: Writer question.

I'd forgotten about Moby-Dick. That's one of my favorite novels and an excellent example. Ishmael is involved in the tale, but he isn't the focal character who affects the change in the story. That's Ahab. The novel would be completely different through Ahab's eyes. The point is what Ishmael sees. That's exactly what I'm talking about. THANKS, Don! :-)

Re: Writer question.

Right off the bat, Conan Doyle’s Dr Watson comes to my mind. Narrating the story from Holmes’s POV would have revealed the solution too early and the stories would have lost their punch. The fact Watson narrated this stories didn’t hinder their success and, as of today, nobody complains or considers the POV selection belittles the narration.

There’s a wide variety of stories narrated from the sidekick’s POV for several reasons, and many of them have been bestsellers. From my stand point, the “Dr Watson” POV/narrative works much in the way a third person POV does but with the extra advantage of a greater/better connection with the reader.

The so-called writing rules, such as “don’t use adverbs”, “always write from the MC’s POV”, “never open a book with weather”, “never use a verb other than ‘said’ to carry dialogue”, are good general advise but they are not the Ten Commandments. Too many adverbs may imply a poor verb selection; not writing from the MC’s POV might turn a story into a boring one; opening with weather could reveal lack of creativity; and using too many variants of said (from ejaculate and vomit, to bark and chirp, to hiss and sibilate) at first stands in the way of the narration and afterwards ends up laughable.

However, peppering a story with adverbs here and there may enhance certain images, Sherlock Holmes stories were written from the sidekick’s POV and they were/are a bestseller, opening a story with weather may be necessary, and variants of “said” are many times required to highlight the speaker’s attitude.

Conclusion: Corra, if you feel you’re using the right POV stick to it unless many reviewers point to the fact you must do it otherwise, rather than only one creative writing teacher who is expected to foster the adherence to certain basic rules, assuming he/she regularly teaches amateurs. 

My grain of salt.

Kiss,

Gacela

Re: Writer question.

Gacela, that is some really brilliant feedback. Especially your conclusion. Thank you. I'm really glad I asked here. x

Re: Writer question.

The protagonist is the main character period, not necessarily the narrator. The widely accepted greatest book ever written has narrator(s) other than the protagonist, i.e. the Bible. You could probably find a list of books longer than your arm -- or a city block if you prefer -- where the narrator is not the protagonist. If a professor told you otherwise, you might want to get your money back. Take care. Vern

Re: Writer question.

You can definitely make your narrator the POV character and the protagonist someone else. Have you read Sonny's Blues by James Baldwin? Perfect example. It writes from the POV of the brother of the protag, who was a troubled but talented musician. I recommend it by the way.

Re: Writer question.

Good question. Good answers. Thank you everyone who shared. I needed that.

9 (edited by dagnee 2017-07-02 22:29:09)

Re: Writer question.

The Great Gatsby was written like that. Thought of another one: Sherlock Holmes series.
smile

Re: Writer question.

Don Chambers wrote:

I think you can definitely have the protagonist be different than the narrator. I know of several examples like this -- Moby Dick, the Great Gatsby come to mind. All are older literature, though, so it has fallen out of vogue. I can't think of anything published in the last fifty years that has done it. Still, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try it.

The one limitation I think is that you need to keep the narrator the same throughout the book, so you will not be able to switch POV. First person would seem the best POV in this case.

I personally would like to see you try it!

I should have read you first....:)

Re: Writer question.

Gamms wrote:

You can definitely make your narrator the POV character and the protagonist someone else. Have you read Sonny's Blues by James Baldwin? Perfect example. It writes from the POV of the brother of the protag, who was a troubled but talented musician. I recommend it by the way.

I read Baldwin's story a few years ago, but I'll revisit. Thanks for the suggestion!

12 (edited by rhiannon 2017-07-10 19:47:18)

Re: Writer question.

Although we loosely equate protagonist and the main character, the protagonist is the first actor ("pro"), the antagonist is the actor opposed to him or her.  So we have Antigone and Cleon, neither of whom are evil.  In "Atlas Shrugged," the protagonist was John Galt, the main character Dagny Taggert; it is written entirely from her POV; the antagonist for most of the book works behind the scenes (almost like an antagonist). The POV could even be the antagonist's, and the main character be the protagonist.   I was going to use Dr. Watson as the example, but Gacela beat me to it.  But we have Archie Goodwin as another example (and in the last fifty years).  All the rules Gacela mentioned are for novices.  You have to watch out, as many editors/publishers are frustrated writers and English teachers (harsh but true), and they will come down on you for breaking the rules.  I've had rejections because of my comma use.  (No!  Not comma use.  Yes, I'm afraid it's true.)  But just remember, many of the greatest writers in history would not be published today if the rules are too rigidly enforced (Dorothy Sayers comes to mind) and once you're profitable enough, you can break the rules.  You aren't supposed to write in present-progressive.  Patricia Cornwall just wrote a book in that. And one person's cliche is another person's trope. You can succeed with the same old, same old, but use a twist.  Another Zombie story.  ::yawn::  Ooh, but the main character has a Colt Python (not a boring old S&W No. 29).  Instant ratings. 

I think it was Hemingway (it was one of those old guys, anyway) who, when asked how he wrote, said, "I begin at the beginning, go to the end, then stop."  Great advice, but James Joyce didn't follow t.

Write on!

Rhia