quite the drubbing

That sounds like the one I'm in. if so, how long do I have? If not, ignore my rambling

I see you got a drive-by from TW. If it helps any, she didn't understand it was a chapter that has to tie a lot of books / threads together. I think some digression in plot, theme, and (gulp) POV is reasonable. Only other way is to have a character much more charismatic than the others who can carry the scene by themselves.

PS: I still don't see Melody

corra wrote:

I guess I'm wondering who the targeted audience is when you begin a social media platform? Readers of the genre you write in? People within the industry (which would make writing about writing as a blogger seem more relevant). Readers in general? If you write about writing, aren't you just writing to a bevy of fellow writers -- sending tips into the echo chamber? Wouldn't you want to speak to the people you intend your book for? (I ask not to criticize, but to understand how you view the platform's purpose.)

I am trying not to target an audience. My platform's modus operandi is I stay in character.

I check the demographic charts sometimes. I wonder if more than 1% have read the story or they're along for the ride. I'm not promoting as much as creating new free content in a world of re-tweets.

hah... Is this the kind of stuff that runs through your head late at night while you should be sleeping?

I'm confused about the criminal mastermind partare you saying she's both an AI and a real person who's a criminal or that the two entities share the same alias?

Make images of the words and include them as part of the body of work. Not as slick, I know, but works.

I was against the frills in chapter one because that's the time I'm still deciding if I like any character well enough to fork over $10 to hang out with them.

Within the body of the work, I (as a reader) am much more forgiving of divergent elements. Thus, I have no true opinion of he cases you outlined. I would suggest leave them in for now, and see how you feel halfway through writing book 2.

-K

808

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

bzzt!

edit: Sorry, didn't mean to imply there was only the one fix. Another method is adjust the timing.

We learn of the attack on the Delta - then we learn of the rescue a few paragraph later. Perhaps separating these two events by a chapter or two will allow R (and the reader) to dwell on the attack longer before it's flipped over to a non-problem.

rhiannon wrote:

I'm pondering the "cavalry arriving in the nick of time" point (or the "Deus ex Littlefinger" as one reviewer of GOT called it when John Snow's forces were about to be creamed by Boulton, but the goblins aren't one; they are part of the forces amassed, although she wasn't aware of them.  That will remain, as that's part of the comic quality of their arrival.  Ioseff's and Zusanna's force don't arrive in the nick of time; it's more that Rhiannon arrives in the nick of time to join them.  And that was part of Marlais' strategy.  The only thing like that I can think of is Henry's arrival as the royalist forces are creamed in the delta, and again, there's a bit of a comic relief about it.

Re-read the chapters of interest after a bit of a gap to see if I still saw what I first saw. Here are my takeaways:

Chapter 37
Elsbeth saves Rhiannon from having her head bashed in (She was pinned)
Rhia's men get surprise attacked but the birds swoop in to save her
Shortly after, Harpies join the fray (I'll consider  them separate from the birds because they got their own entrance)

Chapter 38
She tracks Seidel to his castle but gets surprise-attacked in the streets and gets bailed out by a pair of Wyrms
Yeomen show up to help
Red kites show up because she'd have no other way to track Seidel
Branwen shows up in a battleship just in time to bring catapults to bear
(House of Gwyrdall and the wolves show up to help now, but we can give these elements a pass because it was announced earlier that was the plan)
Trolls show up with banana peels once the enemy archers get too dangerous
[* Here's the can't-lose part - See notes below*]

Chapter  39
The wyrms re-appear conveniently when needed against the juggernaut
The birds and Harpies are reactivated (I presume they were on stand-by)

Chapter 40
An unexpected rebel attack had occurred in the Delta -> oh... Pirates showed up and dealt with that

So right about where the trolls appear, it's established by the story that no matter how bad it gets, some cavalry will appear and solve the problem. There is really no danger for her - I mean she even has Death on her side, so I'm thinking she can't really die.

This is all easy to fix eg...
a) Ensure the birds never leave the battle so that they don't appear at the perfect moments
b) Mention the Wyms & the wyrm camps and their comings and goings - again removing the nick-of-time effect
c) You don't get much bang for the buck by having the pirates show up - maybe have Rhiannon lose that city and has to go rescue it herself
d) Reduce the red kites to only the vrouaca - since they were already introduced to the story - one less divergent element
e) Basically I'd recommend the trolls be the only surprise cavalry in this secction

graymartin wrote:

Kdot's logic makes sense to me. What about a reviewer ranking though? Anyone object to that?

A reviewer ranking will create a competitive market where creating reviews gets prestige. Beware: This will coax people to create reviews they might not otherwise do because they were satisfied with their point tallies.

A: Yes, I have a bazillion points, but if I could squeeze in 5 extra reviews by the weekend, I'll clip 35th place in the rankings.
B: Oh Shoot! I just dropped to 36. I need 4 more reviews to regain my rank. *starts reviewing*

Imagine I leave you a glowing (yet detailed) review detailing a flaw I found in the story. Impressed, you hand me an extra point.

I review members A, B, C. None of them like that I'm exposing these flaws. They don't give me extra points. Guess who I'll review next? Whoever is awarding me extra points.

A, B, C, if they want my reviews will have to pony up the extra points - or their work will sit there unreviewed.  They will be forced to reward points they don't want to. Otherwise, reviewers will flock to people who award points.

People like you & me who have amassed ridiculous amounts of points to give away will soon start harvesting the point-starved reviewers. We will create literary fiefdoms based on the gold standard of who has more points to spend to buy reviews.

Yep... we'd very quickly reach a state where the extra credit was expected.

We did reach that stage in an earlier iteration of the site (back when you could rate reviews). People got their feathers ruffled if you didn't give them 5-stars. It came to be you lost reviewers if you didn't reward them. It ended up you kept only reviewers who said good things about your work.

I picture this Starfury launching from one of three docking bays in the Babylon 5 forward hangar
https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/babylon5/images/2/2b/Heavy_Fury_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090430213832

I picture these three planes in one giant hangar
https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-35a99f5e4b0b258e92258f3f3428a219

That strikes me as a hangar, but I dun care which term or even if they're swapped

Doing this avoids all of the fighter pilots having to constantly give their operational status in the middle of the battle.

Q: Why don't their systems handle that for them? When I play an online game my computer tells me my party members health bars and spell statuses including effects and duration in addition to enemy spells and effects - no need for them to take the time to inform me.

818

(4 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

This is a tough act to follow

yep!

Regarding when to publish, for a first ever book, I highly recommend waiting until at least the 2nd is written. There'll be things in the first you'll decide to change by the time you've written the second. Little plot-related things in a book 2 will undo a book 1.

Also having smaller gaps in series is good for bridging readers. It's often I see a copy of book 1 sell, then shortly after, sales on books 2 & 3. This is good because books 1, 2, 3 centre around the same half dozen characters ([J e n n a] doesn't even get a mention in them. Books 4, 5, 6 revolve around another half dozen characters, culminating in Victorious, so I'll release those relatively close to each other. Lorraine takes over in Books 7 and 8, so I'll release up to 9 together and advance her supporting cast to that culminating plot.

I'll always be fresh on a reader's mind... if he liked 1-3 then a few years go by and he sees 4, he won't have to wait long before 5 comes out then 6=satisfaction/conclusion.

Unlike Frederick Pohl, one of whose series I'm still waiting on the conclusion of. (He dies 23 years after writing it but even if he did write it with a 10 year gap, I know I'd have read the last page i na bookstore looking for the words "The End". If I saw "To be continued" I'd gently put the book down and walk away).

Hungry readers gotta be fed!

No... not a huge fan... but it doesn't ruin the story - just a chapter or two where I don't know who everyone is. No biggie

1. When I see an expression like "This scene needs X characters" I always ask myself "All at once?".

One trick in wrestling that's so famous people don't even see it happening under their noses is "spooling in wrestlers during the match". Four people are in the ring. Some guy #5 wants to be in the match but that's too many people for the choreography. A member of the original four will take a hit and fall off the ring apron. He will proceed to lie on the floor while #5 interacts - it's still a 4-man fight until someone gets eliminated (usually #5) and then the guy on the floor will rejoin the match.

Another trick wrestling uses is to break the unneeded opponents away into a simple brawl at the side of the ring while the main participants continue the match. You (the choreographer) may add as many extras to the minibrawl as you like. It doesn't matter what's going on down there - only matters that punches are being thrown and some combat occurs. The voice announcers will not discuss the brawl until some winner emerges and rejoins the main event.

2. I've learned over time that I can only take three new names per chapter. After that it's just so&so, son of so&so. This averages across chapters, so if chapter one contains 9 names, I should have them all straight by chapter three. You can safely exceed this limit. Return of the Jedi did in its final battle. For me it was just so&so in an XWing and so&so in another XWing. I don't think Lucas cares if I can't name the 3rd guy on the left five minutes after watching the movie.

3. I've heard the dog-fighting complaint before, but it's the future. Fighter craft can still chase each other. Sure they don't need to "bank" as they turn, but they can still turn. And they can try to get "uplight" of each other so one side a quarter second behind due to the speed of light. The guy who's behind is gonna have a harder time scoring hits.

In the VQ stories, Firestarter is in a ship that is braking in space, and a reviewer commented that ships couldn't really brake in space. This is true for "current" ships - they just plow into the atmosphere as full speed, but the Enterprise had to problem coming to a dead stop.

Net point: If you deem your ships will maneuver for tactical advantage, just go ahead and do it. Maybe just don't call it "dog-fighting" so people don't get confused.

Everything Monsieur Hamler says and more.

Don't hold back with my stuff. Nothing you can say will be worse than what the market has already said. Bring me all of your hate. I love it.

You're on fire

I am not supposed to describe my character AT ALL ...
I like to set the stage and let readers know through facial expressions, posture, etc. how the character is feeling.

This is interesting. We had a parallel discussion in another group, and here are my take-aways from it.

1) I don't overly need a description of the POV character beyond gender and eccentricities. Shakespeare never described Juliette, yet she's framed in my head as a certain look. She's framed in your head with a slightly different (but no doubt similar) look. If a thousand people had to render her under  a paint brush you'd get a thousand variations, each personalized to that reader.

(Okay, R&J was a bad example because it's a play but I've often wondered how other people visualize them. I've never been able to mentally match them with the various film depictions through the years - they've always felt "off" to me. I also concede that trendy writers (JK Rowlings) have had great success describing their characters into the minutae)

2) I don't need the POV character's facial expression. If it's there, okay. If it's not, I'll assign one mentally. You're better off if I'm assigning it because I'll always assign the most favourable expression. If I'm doing this, I can ease into the POV character like it's a second skin. If it's there too much, it's a little intrusive - I'd want the story to keep rolling rather than the writer catch me up on what I'm supposed to be feeling for the MC.

Here's an excerpt from South of the Border, West of the Sun:

As soon as I saw her, everything around me froze. A lump of air forced its way up from my chest to my throat. Shimamoto, I thought. I drove past her to check her out in the rearview mirror, but her face was hidden in the crowd. I slammed on my brakes, getting an earful of horn from the car behind me.
Murakami, Haruki. South of the Border, West of the Sun: A Novel (Vintage International) (p. 201). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Now, let's stomp all over it with what the writer (pretend that's me) wants the reader to feel:

Kdot makes a mess of this wrote:

As soon as I saw her, my eyes lit up and my eyebrows raised. Shimamoto, I thought, grinning. I drove past her to check her out in the rearview mirror, but her face was hidden in the crowd. I narrowed my eyes to get a better look. No luck. My face fell. I slammed on my brakes, getting an earful of horn from the car behind me. Beads of sweat trickled down my face.

If you compare these, you'll see my inserts do little to advance the story. If anything, "grinning" spoils the reader experience for at least the portion of the market who would have been frowning.

So my advice is: when you go to make an expression on the POV character, ask yourself "Am I doing this because it's part of the story or because I need to tell the reader how to feel?"

Disclaimer: Ignore everything I just said and just tell your story the way you see fit.