Topic: The Opening Lines...

Hi everyone,

Is anyone else struggling with the opening lines of their novel? Or putting off querying agents or self-publishing because they're just not sure they've got the first chapter right yet?

I recently got a free review on my first 1k words from a professional editor which was extremely helpful. He critically analyses your 1st chapter and comments from an agent's perspective on the overall storyline, adds some copy-edits, and finally gives it a grade of gold/silver/rejected/etc.

I'm sharing this because I found it really useful and hope some of you find it useful too. Here's his website; http://theopeninglines.com

Re: The Opening Lines...

Suin wrote:

Hi everyone,

Is anyone else struggling with the opening lines of their novel? Or putting off querying agents or self-publishing because they're just not sure they've got the first chapter right yet?

I recently got a free review on my first 1k words from a professional editor which was extremely helpful. He critically analyses your 1st chapter and comments from an agent's perspective on the overall storyline, adds some copy-edits, and finally gives it a grade of gold/silver/rejected/etc.

I'm sharing this because I found it really useful and hope some of you find it useful too. Here's his website; http://theopeninglines.com

Yes, and thank you for that, but is there any objective standard by which one can judge his opinions having any value? For example, gold star and heaps of praise for the opening to Forlorn Hope House that begins with paragraph after paragraph of deep POV of a worldly female airhead because (we are assuming) deep POV of a worldy female airhead sells because (we assume) there are enough female airheads, perhaps worldly, perhaps not, in the marketplace who can identify -- or doing whatever they do -- when they buy such books.

"The psychic distance between your main character and the reader should remain pretty constant, in order to maintain a consistent and seamless reader-immersion in the narrative." Okay. Need he say more? Well, yes.

Re: The Opening Lines...

Looks great Suin. Thanks!

Re: The Opening Lines...

Glad to hear it, Debbie. Hope it helps you too!

Re: The Opening Lines...

Suin:

This is excellent, Suin! Thanks for sharing. I read several of his comments on other people's work and they make a lot of sense. I also read his comments on your own work. I'm impressed! His opinion on your opening chapter was high. Congrats!

I've always thought that one is an excellent story worth being published.

Kiss,

Gacela

Re: The Opening Lines...

Mariana Reuter wrote:

Suin:

This is excellent, Suin! Thanks for sharing. I read several of his comments on other people's work and they make a lot of sense.

Rah, rah, sis-boom-bah!

Re: The Opening Lines...

Thanks for sharing that site, Suin....Just submitted. Can't wait to hear their reply.

Re: The Opening Lines...

Thanks, Suin! smile

Re: The Opening Lines...

dagny wrote:

Thanks, Suin! smile

Perhaps you can answer the question on how an editor who claims to have a bunch of global clients is qualified to do what he claims to do. He provides no name  - only a reference to having a connection to the Irish and Canadian publishing markets, a fact irrelevant to an American author looking to write for Americans and perhaps publish in the U.S.A. Presumably he can expect aspiring authors submitting to the free site for busine$$ through clearly referenced Irish website editorial.ie, and no editor's job is to make a work publishable for any reason other than the mechanics of good writing  such as the right and proper spelling the word, "colour" as "color."

Re: The Opening Lines...

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
dagny wrote:

Thanks, Suin! smile

Perhaps you can answer the question on how an editor who claims to have a bunch of global clients is qualified to do what he claims to do. He provides no name  - only a reference to having a connection to the Irish and Canadian publishing markets, a fact irrelevant to an American author looking to write for Americans and perhaps publish in the U.S.A. Presumably he can expect aspiring authors submitting to the free site for busine$$ through clearly referenced Irish website editorial.ie, and no editor's job is to make a work publishable for any reason other than the mechanics of good writing  such as the right and proper spelling the word, "colour" as "color."

His email is:  editor@editorial.ie
If you are really so curious, why don’t you just ask him directly?

Re: The Opening Lines...

Temple Wang wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:
dagny wrote:

Thanks, Suin! smile

Perhaps you can answer the question on how an editor who claims to have a bunch of global clients is qualified to do what he claims to do. He provides no name  - only a reference to having a connection to the Irish and Canadian publishing markets, a fact irrelevant to an American author looking to write for Americans and perhaps publish in the U.S.A. Presumably he can expect aspiring authors submitting to the free site for busine$$ through clearly referenced Irish website editorial.ie, and no editor's job is to make a work publishable for any reason other than the mechanics of good writing  such as the right and proper spelling the word, "colour" as "color."

His email is:  editor@editorial.ie
If you are really so curious, why don’t you just ask him directly?

Skepticism requires interest in the story of the buyer and not the seller. So we have five or so potential buyers so keen on the product of the seller, though it be ostensibly free, but no statements of their reasons.  Furthermore, on the Irish website not giving out free samples, there are the "testimonials", a red flag in the eye of the skeptic.

Re: The Opening Lines...

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
Temple Wang wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:

Perhaps you can answer the question on how an editor who claims to have a bunch of global clients is qualified to do what he claims to do. He provides no name  - only a reference to having a connection to the Irish and Canadian publishing markets, a fact irrelevant to an American author looking to write for Americans and perhaps publish in the U.S.A. Presumably he can expect aspiring authors submitting to the free site for busine$$ through clearly referenced Irish website editorial.ie, and no editor's job is to make a work publishable for any reason other than the mechanics of good writing  such as the right and proper spelling the word, "colour" as "color."

His email is:  editor@editorial.ie
If you are really so curious, why don’t you just ask him directly?

Skepticism requires interest in the story of the buyer and not the seller. So we have five or so potential buyers so keen on the product of the seller, though it be ostensibly free, but no statements of their reasons.  Furthermore, on the Irish website not giving out free samples, there are the "testimonials", a red flag in the eye of the skeptic.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/ryan-oconnel … ss-boring/

Re: The Opening Lines...

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
dagny wrote:

Thanks, Suin! smile

Perhaps you can answer the question on how an editor who claims to have a bunch of global clients is qualified to do what he claims to do. He provides no name  - only a reference to having a connection to the Irish and Canadian publishing markets, a fact irrelevant to an American author looking to write for Americans and perhaps publish in the U.S.A. Presumably he can expect aspiring authors submitting to the free site for busine$$ through clearly referenced Irish website editorial.ie, and no editor's job is to make a work publishable for any reason other than the mechanics of good writing  such as the right and proper spelling the word, "colour" as "color."

Richard Bradburn
It's in there. You have to follow the link from Opening Lines up to the parent site that is his actual editing site and sift through it

Re: The Opening Lines...

Kdot wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:
dagny wrote:

Thanks, Suin! smile

Perhaps you can answer the question on how an editor who claims to have a bunch of global clients is qualified to do what he claims to do. He provides no name  - only a reference to having a connection to the Irish and Canadian publishing markets, a fact irrelevant to an American author looking to write for Americans and perhaps publish in the U.S.A. Presumably he can expect aspiring authors submitting to the free site for busine$$ through clearly referenced Irish website editorial.ie, and no editor's job is to make a work publishable for any reason other than the mechanics of good writing  such as the right and proper spelling the word, "colour" as "color."

Richard Bradburn
It's in there. You have to follow the link from Opening Lines up to the parent site that is his actual editing site and sift through it

Yes, the free site leads to a fee site.

Re: The Opening Lines...

Temple Wang wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:
Temple Wang wrote:

His email is:  editor@editorial.ie
If you are really so curious, why don’t you just ask him directly?

Skepticism requires interest in the story of the buyer and not the seller. So we have five or so potential buyers so keen on the product of the seller, though it be ostensibly free, but no statements of their reasons.  Furthermore, on the Irish website not giving out free samples, there are the "testimonials", a red flag in the eye of the skeptic.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/ryan-oconnel … ss-boring/

You are unresponsive.

16 (edited by dagny 2018-09-29 16:54:45)

Re: The Opening Lines...

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
dagny wrote:

Thanks, Suin! smile

Perhaps you can answer the question on how an editor who claims to have a bunch of global clients is qualified to do what he claims to do. He provides no name  - only a reference to having a connection to the Irish and Canadian publishing markets, a fact irrelevant to an American author looking to write for Americans and perhaps publish in the U.S.A. Presumably he can expect aspiring authors submitting to the free site for busine$$ through clearly referenced Irish website editorial.ie, and no editor's job is to make a work publishable for any reason other than the mechanics of good writing  such as the right and proper spelling the word, "colour" as "color."

Who knew a two word response would elicit such a reaction! Dude, it's just something fun to do. It's not like we're all naive beginners who are going to be fooled into handing over bundles of cash to this editor. Lighten up. smile

Re: The Opening Lines...

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
Temple Wang wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:

Skepticism requires interest in the story of the buyer and not the seller. So we have five or so potential buyers so keen on the product of the seller, though it be ostensibly free, but no statements of their reasons.  Furthermore, on the Irish website not giving out free samples, there are the "testimonials", a red flag in the eye of the skeptic.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/ryan-oconnel … ss-boring/

You are unresponsive.

Re: The Opening Lines...

Silence is quite responsive; it says a great deal should one listen to it. Take care. Vern

Re: The Opening Lines...

vern wrote:

Silence is quite responsive; it says a great deal should one listen to it. Take care. Vern

Silence is not what came from Empress Wu but irrelevant noise.  Silence can mean several things but often requires a combination of uninterest, ignorance and lack of education.  I reckon you are the exception to the rule.

Re: The Opening Lines...

dagny wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:
dagny wrote:

Thanks, Suin! smile

Perhaps you can answer the question on how an editor who claims to have a bunch of global clients is qualified to do what he claims to do. He provides no name  - only a reference to having a connection to the Irish and Canadian publishing markets, a fact irrelevant to an American author looking to write for Americans and perhaps publish in the U.S.A. Presumably he can expect aspiring authors submitting to the free site for busine$$ through clearly referenced Irish website editorial.ie, and no editor's job is to make a work publishable for any reason other than the mechanics of good writing  such as the right and proper spelling the word, "colour" as "color."

Who knew a two word response would elicit such a reaction! Dude, it's just something fun to do. It's not like we're all naive beginners who are going to be fooled into handing over bundles of cash to this editor. Lighten up. smile

I guess I asked you because I could count on opinion forthcoming.

I am suggesting to everyone: beware of all prophets proffering truth. The monetization of same is of secondary consideration.

This is somewhat part 2 of the thread relating to arbitrary selection of Strongest Start which is an unknown known in that we all can tell such a thing exists by what it is not - some awful writing, usually meandering and pointless, but not what it is.  It is also not the Literary Fiction submission I randomly picked off the suggested website, subject of the  thread.

Re: The Opening Lines...

I am suggesting to everyone: beware of all prophets proffering truth. The monetization of same is of secondary consideration.

Charles,

I told you that we were not naive, we were not swayed by faint praise. I also assured you that for most of us this is not our first rodeo, we know to look out for hustlers. This is fact, not opinion.

Had you warned us in the beginning, I think the hard rhetoric between you and others would have been avoided.

smile

Re: The Opening Lines...

dagny wrote:

I am suggesting to everyone: beware of all prophets proffering truth. The monetization of same is of secondary consideration.

Charles,

I told you that we were not naive, we were not swayed by faint praise. I also assured you that for most of us this is not our first rodeo, we know to look out for hustlers. This is fact, not opinion.

Had you warned us in the beginning, I think the hard rhetoric between you and others would have been avoided.

smile

I said what I said in the first response as clear skepticism over the validity of the suggested website, and such only after demonstrated reasonable inspection before comment. In turn I asked the OP for her reply as to how I might be wrong.  What is frustrating: no one who opted to comment in any fashion has had anything to say (than Rah! Rah! to OP) except you in tangent from my original premise, and naivety has little to with what I said, really.  So, unless you can examine the site for any specific example of anything submitted that is not obviously awful that does not show the anonymous Irish editor with global clients full of s*** then please do so.

Re: The Opening Lines...

Charles:

No one opted to comment because most of the TNBW authors know your comments are usually destructive and loaded with heavy and uncalled sarcasm (like the Rah! Rah! thing you did).

Recently, writers have complained about the lack of forum threads and open discussion. One of the main reasons are Charles F. Bell's expected, aggressive critique. People like Suin are likely to be discouraged from making open suggestions and sharing their discoveries within the worldwide web if their post are to be derided.

While I agree at first you tried to open a discussion, your well-earned reputation didn't encourage further comments. Proof of it was your Rah! Rah! upon a comment thanking Suin for sharing the website. What was it's purpose? Show how stupid the rest of us are? Like Dagny said, do you think we're that naïve? That amateur?

As a TNBW member, and with all due respect, I strongly suggest that you refrain from participating in forum discussions unless you plan to avoid all sarcasm and behave in a respectful manner.

Kiss,

Gacela

Re: The Opening Lines...

Kiss,

Gacela

lol, Gacela. smile

Re: The Opening Lines...

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
vern wrote:

Silence is quite responsive; it says a great deal should one listen to it. Take care. Vern

Silence is not what came from Empress Wu but irrelevant noise.  Silence can mean several things but often requires a combination of uninterest, ignorance and lack of education.  I reckon you are the exception to the rule.

You certainly make the case for "Silence is golden." Take care. Vern