amy s wrote:Is that so much to ask?
If you have to ask, you know that someone will give an answer you don't want.
So asking for forgiveness is better than asking for permission?
Play 27 Dresses in the background
*dries keyboard and screen*
because I just "spilled" water all over it ...
sneak away and write in the closet so the kids can't find you. That's what I do.
Do you have any advice to hide from husbands?! 
It can be done well, though. You can change PoV from chapter to chapter and scene to scene, and even within a scene if you are deft. C.J.Driftwood does it here in some of his most powerful scenes and it detracts not one whit.
It's also an accepted part of the Romance genre, or so I am told.
It is less frowned upon in Romance for sure. No chapter breaks, no scene breaks. I've read romance novels where the author jumped between the FMC and MMC POV's four times in a matter of four paragraphs - #1 NYT best selling author BTW. It has never been an issue for me as a romance reader or when I review writers on the site who does that. Except when I look at published romance novels to learn more about changing POV's mid-scene (not even mid paragraph), then all of a sudden it doesn't look right to me and I find it hard to follow. Go figure.
Not sure how true this is, but doing this as an unknown/unpublished author will be harder to get published. Once you're "established", "apparently" since you will be regarded as "knowing" what you're doing, it's easier to get away with omni POV, even when it's not done well. This is of course not a recommendation to try it! 
And I can't remember where I've read this unfortunately. 
I couldn't get further than 2 chapters (and I didn't pay a cent for the torture). Because really, Anna is the most pathetic FMC I've had ever seen,
Janet, I have to disagree. She's the second worst. Bella--HANDS DOWN--is worse.
I didn't read one word of Twilight, but somehow I can believe you on this one.
Speaking of Twilight though. I would've thought the uproar about stalking and abuse would've been way more than FSOG. I mean, Twilight is directly aimed at a younger audience ... Or is it simply a case of FSOG coming along and picking up the target instead, leaving Meyers to get away with it?
And gotcha, it's sometimes hard to pick up on sarcasm. I have no idea how she made so much money with her writing - after two chapters, I had to check how old the author was, because it came across to me as written by a teenager for teenagers (except, given the content, it wasn't).
And absolutely, censorship should not be even considered. But when you say the public is speaking loud and clear, I say a 100 million books sold and a solid fan-base is as good, if not a better counter-argument ...
I'm talking about the rational public..lol...and pandering to youth with forbidden subjects will always create a fan base, even if the writing is not that good.
Just ask Stephanie Myers.Don't misunderstand, I think it's great they've made a lot of money with their brand of literature. It's just not something I would do.
LOL! Touche, excellent point you make about rational public hehehe And I hope you use the term "literature" loosely in the company of James and Meyers! Just kidding! But yeah, each to their own!
I have read none of EL James and I'm not going to because I had a roommate who had a dominate relationship with a man. Only she wasn't the one being abused. She wouldn't beat her submissive, (a tiny balding older man, who shook whenever someone looked his way), but she would humiliate him verbally, never let him touch her and made him sleep on the floor at the end of her bed. AND he PAID her for this. I only saw him coming and going, but heard in great detail about their sessions from my roommate. She thought it was funny, I thought it was terribly sad.
I'm sure there's S and M relationships that are perfectly lovely, but I bet more of them are like the one I witnessed. I know you're going to say it was consensual, that the man must have been getting something out of it or he wouldn't have paid. Maybe you're right, but heroin makes you feel good and addicts think they're getting something out of the drug, too.
I don't support censorship because I feel the public will let an author know when they've gone too far, and I wouldn't want someone else to tell me what I could write. It sounds like to me that in the matter of Grey, the public is speaking loud and clear....
I couldn't get further than 2 chapters (and I didn't pay a cent for the torture). Because really, Anna is the most pathetic FMC I've had ever seen, from the first sentence as a twenty year old that still "struggles" with her hair (really????????). She cemented my opinion when she was totes overwhelmed by a 20-story building ... And when I was introduced to Grey, a 27 yr old self-made billionaire with a body of steel ... It was too much, because I kept on picturing that guy from Facebook, because he's the only guy I know that fit the description ... So that was the end.
You also touch on another controversial subject. The BDSM community is very critical of the books and insists it's not like it at all. I could've missed the memo where EL James insisted that her version is the only true BDSM example, but even though I can concede that the depiction of BDSM in FSOG may likely not be the norm, I think it sure as hell is possible ...
I also find it interesting that you've given us a glimpse into a real example where the genders have been flipped around. Somehow in the sh#t storm kicked up by the books, a lot of people had simply forgotten or had chosen to ignore the fact that it's not only women who are or can be in abusive relationships.
And absolutely, censorship should not be even considered. But when you say the public is speaking loud and clear, I say a 100 million books sold and a solid fan-base is as good, if not a better counter-argument ...
ps - I'm not "defending" EL James, IMO, I'm highlighting hypocrisy, and I stand by that! LOL (general comment, not related to your post Dags, because you made valid points!).
Janet! I laughed my ass off about some of those questions. The first book is absolutely awful. Hey! She's a multi-millionaire now.
There was a few good ones, this one is my personal favourite, because it's true:
"Are you going to answer any of these questions, or do you need Stephenie Meyer to do a Twitter chat first?"
But, I don't care if someone is a multi-millionaire or not, being abusive is never okay.
Wow, that did not go well at all ...
Apparently, it is argued that EL James caused (deserve) this "backlash" because she refuses to admit that the relationship between Ana and Grey is abusive and that one should never underestimate the power of the written word, i.e. because she refuses to admit to it, there are now millions of impressionable girls (WTF?) who read the books and are "happy" to be in abusive relationships or are actively searching for an abusive (and rich 27 year old billionaire that looks like a movie star???) partner.
But I don't see the logic in thinking that someone who has refused to admit the relationship between A and G is abusive FOR YEARS, will suddenly change her mind. Abusing her (because some of the comments are honestly nothing but that) is a really bad ironic kind of twist. But the "advocates 'against' abuse" are so up in their own arses (excuse my french), that they fail to realise this simple fact: they have become what they so despise. IMO, EL James 1 - anti-abusers 0. And you have to admit, the women's tenacity is remarkable.
As to the power of the written word being able to change the world, true. I'm not denying the fact. But attributing that to an erotic novel? I think it's a bit of a (massive) reach. If adults (because who in their right minds will allow their 12 year old to read these books???? And then for those that did, and has all kinds of f-up issues to deal with, to blame EL James ... is unbelievable!) want to base their personal/sex lives on this drivel, then all I can say is there's no medicine for stupidity and blaming EL James for it is looking for excuses that don't exist. Adults being accountable for their own actions, is a wonderful thing.
As to millions of women who read the novels and now "want" abusive partners, or "allow" it or are "happy" with being abused - I don't know if that is true. If, and that's a big IF, there has been any spike in abusive relationships being reported, it could also be argued that it could be because of the awareness that advocates has brought forward in attacking the books (before they destroyed it by attacking and abusing the author instead of the books).
For those that are (allegedly) looking for someone like Grey? I say good luck. Of all the fictional characters out there, Grey is THE most fictional. He simply does not exist in real life. And this is what I think a lot of people don't understand - because Grey doesn't exist, he has become the ultimate fantasy. And hence, EL James struggles to count the number of zeros of her bank balance.
I haven't read more than 2 chapters of the whole series, but you have to be pretty ignorant not to know what they are about or that the writing quality is simply shocking. Which brings me to my main concerns:
(1) We all are writing to become successful (not famous, there's a difference IMO). BUT, if becoming so hugely successful (and therefore famous) puts such a massive target on your back, any criticism on a site like TNBW fade in comparison. I don't know how EL James handles it. Being rich can only take it so far.
I don't know if I will be able to handle it (and I don't see myself as a weak person). So clearly the answer is to join a writing group or TNBW to hone your skills to become, simply, a famous author like Rowling etc. and avoid all the nastiness about your writing skills and gaps in your story line (and giving struggling, not-so-famous authors very little ammunition to join the crowd and bring you down - but don't get me started on what I think of authors who are joining in, knowing very well that it's damned hard to write books, let alone four, even if the quality leaves little to desire).
(2) BUT, if EL James work-shopped 50 shades on a site like this, for some or other reason, I feel it would've been changed and altered to such an extent that it would have not sold a fraction of the number of copies it did ...
So, are we damned if we do and damned if we don't? And I'm talking about selling millions of copies, movie deals, the whole lot, not "almost" or "sort of" famous ...
It would be interesting to hear everyone's opinion/comment!
Janet R
Amy, you're on the list (both the Other side of the Wall - great title by the way, I can't imagine what is waiting this time! - and the next Dictates. Oh, and if all goes well, I'll have the next chapter up some time this weekend ... I've actually made a few major changes from the first draft, and so far, so good (I think!).
Some things are best said up front.
So you want to be able to leave a comment before you've even read the piece? I must be missing something here.
Sol, sometimes you also need to introduce yourself. I'd use this feature a lot too, at the moment I work around it by either selecting the first word or the heading to leave an introduction of sorts.
Janet
I've read stories where there were mild cat fights that mostly involved throwing food, pillows, mud, or something equally harmless where in the end they fall down in laughter after they've screamed it all out. The more ridiculous the items thrown, the more gripping it all is when the meat of the argument is reached.
I stumbled on a Jerry Springer show this weekend ... Philisha's idea is way better!
hahaha, thanks for taking one for the team! It's not much, but at least it's something when you read a published book that's crap and realise, well, if this can be published ....
Just be sure to let us know when you're back! Don't take too long ... *scowls at screen*
OK, time change. It's 11 PM there, isn't it?
Midnight actually ... we were calling friends and family back home, and it got late. Big mistake was to let hubby phone his mum last (LOL, it's good, but it's also sad hehehe). So I grabbed my phone and used the time productively (using this term loosely LOL)
Messenger it is, thanks guys!
Amy, great suggestion! *scribbles notes*
ps - Philisha, glad to see you around again! whoo hoo!
I prefer calling (sic) it "pet" ... i.e. I so agree with you njc!
The drabble, which is what this contest is, equates to 100 words period. All the other mistakes such as the "members" already corrected and the "200 words" which as already mentioned is for the double drouble, an entirely different animal for contest purposes, are all just that, obvious mistakes. All these errors/incongruences come about because the powers that be simply copy rules from previous contests without going through and making the appropriate changes. And of course it could all be an intentional ploy to increase our editing skills by finding these mistakes, but since it happens on almost every new contest, it really isn't that effective in improving our powers of observation. We know it is the same mistakes over and over, so we simply gloss over it and abide by the rules as we know they should actually be stated for a particular contest of this type. Or conversely we can apply for the proofreaders job. Anyone know how much it pays? Take care. Vern
Hah! But how to know whether it should be 100 words (and not 200) or whether it is indeed a a double drabble contest and not a drabble contest Vern?!
I guess the job is yours if you know the answer to that. My guess is it would pay something like one month's premium membership for every 100 contests "checked". Quite lucrative. 
I miss a lot of oldies these days. I know some has personal reasons for not being actively involved, but I can't help to feel a big chunk of writers I had really good and established reciprocating relationships with, has disappeared. *stops whinging and toughens up a little bit*
Okay, I'm trying very hard to figure out this site and get back into regular reviewing. I miss the forums where I could 'meet' someone new to me and exchange reviews.
Ann, one way to keep in touch is to "connect" to others on the site. That would allow you to send private messages and there is a special section on the home page to indicate when your "connections" have posted new work to review. You can search for writers using the magnifying glass at the top of the page, going to their home page and clicking the connect button. As a side-note, you are also able to "block" writers you don't want to see your work or leave you quickees or connect to you ...
If you're looking for newbies to review, just go to your homepage (clicking on the TNBW logo top left corner is the quickest/easiest IMO) and scroll down the list of new novels, short stories, poems etc. If you want to see more than the number listed on your homepage, just click on the "find more" buttons directly below each list.
Alternatively, create a new thread on the Premium Group's forum (widest exposure) and see what happens from there.
You can join 10 groups as a premium member. I'd suggest clicking on the groups link at the top of the page, select "All Groups" from the drop down menu and start browsing through the list to see what tickles your interest. Joining those groups and re-introducing yourself will also soon have you on your merry way on the new site.
When you get to posting your own work etc., I think there has been really good advice given already, but with the new forum format, finding those threads is like looking for the proverbial/cliched needle. All the advice I have mentioned above, has already been covered, if only one could find it again, so I don't bother reading through thread upon thread anymore and just answers (or ask) stuff again. Sol refuses to change the Premium forum to be like the old one - or even some of the functionality - we have tried to sway his mind with no success, and we have tried really really hard! So he doesn't leave us with any choice and IMO, the only way around that and to save yourself lots of time and lots of pain, just post a question in the Premium forum or whichever group looks like it will work if you get stuck on posting your writing.
Good luck and welcome back!
Janet
HELP, PLEASE!!!!!!
So Matthew sent a message to Anthony regarding his involvement in the raid where Catherine had been injured and what could have been very likely an attempt on Matthew's life. Matthew's messenger left it with James Forster, Anthony's Captain of the Guard at Aiden Tower to find Anthony and give him Matthew's message. James has now spent more than a day trying to find Anthony only to be told by Anthony that he has no idea what Matthew is on about and that James can tell Matthew of the fact, he's not going to do so.
So my question is - would James send a messenger or do you think he would tell Matthew personally?
On the one hand, James might feel he should take the bulk of Matthew's disapproval, but on the other hand, with Anthony, Catherine and now James gone, Aiden Tower is left hanging. But then again, one could argue James has already been gone (with Catherine and Anthony also gone from the tower) for more than a day, so what would another few hours matter?
I'm leaning towards it's important enough to warrant James giving Matthew the message and that the steward at Aiden Tower should man up and make do until James is back.
What do you guys think?
Thanks! Janet
You said: I've reviewed a new member's first chapter over lunch today and it made me realise, I'm so fortunate and have come so far because of reviewers like you...
I had the same kind of help in the beginning. I have to say, isn't it nice when you can see your early mistakes in a different work and realize how far you've come? Just the fact that you are immediately aware of a tense of wording issue and know how it could be fixed...
(Sniff) They grow up so quick!
A
Not to mention avoiding the embarrassment of sending that through to a publisher! (We will not mention 50 shades, that's the exception?!)
Getting to the end of the first draft before that restart/rewrite is pretty huge. Once that dart lands on the board and you re-assemble the story around its new bullseye, that second draft is much betterer.
Will do! Because I want my second second draft to be the bestest of them all!
Thanks K!
DON'T go back and revise this before posting a new chapter. I want you to churn out the first draft, warts and all, getting the story into a written form so that you can fix these little things later. I know the move has kept you away from the computer and revising is easier than new material.
I have been incorporating the reviews for the first/OLD draft as I moved and reworked the previous copy to match the new copy. Do I still do this (I don't want someone who had reviewed the previous copy ever think I didn't consider any of the reviews, although I doubt with the time lapse, anyone would remember without being able to access that copy) or are you saying I shouldn't even do that much?
Or are you referring to the new reviews on the copy currently posted?
I think you mean the latter, and I agree, I have to look forward and worry about it only when the first draft is done. In my defense, I piss weak one but still , I had a couple of blocks where I didn't have enough time to write (I need at least 30 minute blocks otherwise I know it will be a waste of time staring at the screen), but wanted to do something at least while it was quiet for 10-15 minutes at a time. The 10-15 minute useless blocks are done now for good (I think/hope), so that won't happen again - scouts honour!
And I know this is hard to believe, but both Chapter 2 and 3 have gone up at the same before-the-big-move-speed, meaning, I have always been a slow writer! Chapter 4 is ticking along nicely - will be up soon, but not this weekend - it's tax time in Aus! yay!!!! <------- sarcasm is one of my many faults I'm continuously working on ...
New interview and review of Skeleton Run today at www.thereadingcafe.com. Events like this are what's kept me AWOL from this site lately. But I'll be back soon to catch up on my reviews - and post another chapter of my WIP!
Much preferred that writing is keeping you from writing and nothing else! Now all we still need to find out is your shoe size and whether you're left or right handed, and all the personal stuff would be taken care of! You're taking this in your stride, Jack, keep it up!
Now I know you're drinking your prize money already AND it's nearly done for ...
Dear heavens, please not Alda and Tazar romantically involved, please nooooo. How the hell do I get that image out of my head?! *reaches for mental bleach, acid, anything* - I was more going for the hate-hate-snarky-comments level to the yeah-you're-okay-yeah-you-too level kind of deep loyal friendship development! *shivers some more* Isn't Alda waaayyyy too old for Tazar and Tazar waaayyyy to hunky for Alda?! *wonders if I am having a slow day* Did I miss something?!
But then again, Alda teaching Tazar how not to "break" things might just be as good as "Come here fishy, fishy" ...
What if the MC gets paid to beat other ladies in the ring and merely chooses to follow pattern in her personal life?
IMO, your and others may disagree, in the ring is okay, but outside, anyone but the MC i.e. the antagonist will get away with this kind of behaviour. We/readers don't want perfect characters, but this, if taken too far, may be a flaw in an MC that would be very hard to forgive (in a romance novel) given the negative connections women especially has towards female-on-female fights over guys. Uncontrollable jealousy and looking for trouble will be easier to accept and should give sufficient opportunity for growth etc., I think.
So I still stand by my point - as long as the MC defends, and doesn't start the physical confrontation, it should be okay.
To all the guys in the group - it would be interesting to know what you think about women physically fighting over a guy (for pure in-case-you-never-know purposes of course!).
