Topic: #askELJames

Wow, that did not go well at all ...

Apparently, it is argued that EL James caused (deserve) this "backlash" because she refuses to admit that the relationship between Ana and Grey is abusive and that one should never underestimate the power of the written word, i.e. because she refuses to admit to it, there are now millions of impressionable girls (WTF?) who read the books and are "happy" to be in abusive relationships or are actively searching for an abusive (and rich 27 year old billionaire that looks like a movie star???) partner.

But I don't see the logic in thinking that someone who has refused to admit the relationship between A and G is abusive FOR YEARS, will suddenly change her mind. Abusing her (because some of the comments are honestly nothing but that) is a really bad ironic kind of twist. But the "advocates 'against' abuse" are so up in their own arses (excuse my french), that they fail to realise this simple fact: they have become what they so despise. IMO, EL James 1 - anti-abusers 0. And you have to admit, the women's tenacity is remarkable.

As to the power of the written word being able to change the world, true. I'm not denying the fact. But attributing that to an erotic novel? I think it's a bit of a (massive) reach. If adults (because who in their right minds will allow their 12 year old to read these books???? And then for those that did, and has all kinds of f-up issues to deal with, to blame EL James ... is unbelievable!) want to base their personal/sex lives on this drivel, then all I can say is there's no medicine for stupidity and blaming EL James for it is looking for excuses that don't exist. Adults being accountable for their own actions, is a wonderful thing.

As to millions of women who read the novels and now "want" abusive partners, or "allow" it or are "happy" with being abused - I don't know if that is true. If, and that's a big IF, there has been any spike in abusive relationships being reported, it could also be argued that it could be because of the awareness that advocates has brought forward in attacking the books (before they destroyed it by attacking and abusing the author instead of the books).

For those that are (allegedly) looking for someone like Grey? I say good luck. Of all the fictional characters out there, Grey is THE most fictional. He simply does not exist in real life. And this is what I think a lot of people don't understand - because Grey doesn't exist, he has become the ultimate fantasy. And hence, EL James struggles to count the number of zeros of her bank balance.

I haven't read more than 2 chapters of the whole series, but you have to be pretty ignorant not to know what they are about or that the writing quality is simply shocking. Which brings me to my main concerns:

(1) We all are writing to become successful (not famous, there's a difference IMO). BUT, if becoming so hugely successful (and therefore famous) puts such a massive target on your back, any criticism on a site like TNBW fade in comparison. I don't know how EL James handles it. Being rich can only take it so far.

I don't know if I will be able to handle it (and I don't see myself as a weak person). So clearly the answer is to join a writing group or TNBW to hone your skills to become, simply, a famous author like Rowling etc. and avoid all the nastiness about your writing skills and gaps in your story line (and giving struggling, not-so-famous authors very little ammunition to join the crowd and bring you down - but don't get me started on what I think of authors who are joining in, knowing very well that it's damned hard to write books, let alone four, even if the quality leaves little to desire).

(2) BUT, if EL James work-shopped 50 shades on a site like this, for some or other reason, I feel it would've been changed and altered to such an extent that it would have not sold a fraction of the number of copies it did ...

So, are we damned if we do and damned if we don't? And I'm talking about selling millions of copies, movie deals, the whole lot, not "almost" or "sort of" famous ...

It would be interesting to hear everyone's opinion/comment!
Janet R

Quote Post 1

Re: #askELJames

Janet! I laughed my ass off about some of those questions. The first book is absolutely awful. Hey! She's a multi-millionaire now.

Quote Post 2

3 Reply by dagnee (edited by dagnee 2015-07-02 04:15:19)

Re: #askELJames

I have read none of EL James and I'm not going to because I had a roommate who had a dominate relationship with a man. Only she wasn't the one being abused. She wouldn't beat her submissive, (a tiny balding older man, who shook whenever someone looked his way), but she would humiliate him verbally, never let him touch her and made him sleep on the floor at the end of her bed. AND he PAID her for this. I only saw him coming and going, but heard in great detail about their sessions from my roommate. She thought it was funny, I thought it was terribly sad.

I'm sure there's S and M relationships that are perfectly lovely, but I bet more of them are like the one I witnessed. I know you're going to say it was consensual, that the man must have been getting something out of it or he wouldn't have paid. Maybe you're right, but heroin makes you feel good and addicts think they're getting something out of the drug, too.

I don't support censorship because I feel the public will let an author know when they've gone too far, and I wouldn't want someone else to tell me what I could write. It sounds like to me that in the matter of Grey, the public is speaking loud and clear....

smile

Quote Post 3

Re: #askELJames

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

Janet! I laughed my ass off about some of those questions. The first book is absolutely awful. Hey! She's a multi-millionaire now.

There was a few good ones, this one is my personal favourite, because it's true:
"Are you going to answer any of these questions, or do you need Stephenie Meyer to do a Twitter chat first?"

But, I don't care if someone is a multi-millionaire or not, being abusive is never okay.

Quote Post 4

Re: #askELJames

dagnee wrote:

I have read none of EL James and I'm not going to because I had a roommate who had a dominate relationship with a man. Only she wasn't the one being abused. She wouldn't beat her submissive, (a tiny balding older man, who shook whenever someone looked his way), but she would humiliate him verbally, never let him touch her and made him sleep on the floor at the end of her bed. AND he PAID her for this. I only saw him coming and going, but heard in great detail about their sessions from my roommate. She thought it was funny, I thought it was terribly sad.

I'm sure there's S and M relationships that are perfectly lovely, but I bet more of them are like the one I witnessed. I know you're going to say it was consensual, that the man must have been getting something out of it or he wouldn't have paid. Maybe you're right, but heroin makes you feel good and addicts think they're getting something out of the drug, too.

I don't support censorship because I feel the public will let an author know when they've gone too far, and I wouldn't want someone else to tell me what I could write. It sounds like to me that in the matter of Grey, the public is speaking loud and clear....

smile

I couldn't get further than 2 chapters (and I didn't pay a cent for the torture). Because really, Anna is the most pathetic FMC I've had ever seen, from the first sentence as a twenty year old that still "struggles" with her hair (really????????). She cemented my opinion when she was totes overwhelmed by a 20-story building ... And when I was introduced to Grey, a 27 yr old self-made billionaire with a body of steel ... It was too much, because I kept on picturing that guy from Facebook, because he's the only guy I know that fit the description ... So that was the end.

You also touch on another controversial subject. The BDSM community is very critical of the books and insists it's not like it at all. I could've missed the memo where EL James insisted that her version is the only true BDSM example, but even though I can concede that the depiction of BDSM in FSOG may likely not be the norm, I think it sure as hell is possible ...

I also find it interesting that you've given us a glimpse into a real example where the genders have been flipped around. Somehow in the sh#t storm kicked up by the books, a lot of people had simply forgotten or had chosen to ignore the fact that it's not only women who are or can be in abusive relationships.

And absolutely, censorship should not be even considered. But when you say the public is speaking loud and clear, I say a 100 million books sold and a solid fan-base is as good, if not a better counter-argument ...

ps - I'm not "defending" EL James, IMO, I'm highlighting hypocrisy, and I stand by that! LOL (general comment, not related to your post Dags, because you made valid points!).

Quote Post 5

6 Reply by dagnee (edited by dagnee 2015-07-02 05:45:53)

Re: #askELJames

And absolutely, censorship should not be even considered. But when you say the public is speaking loud and clear, I say a 100 million books sold and a solid fan-base is as good, if not a better counter-argument ...


I'm talking about the rational public..lol...and pandering to youth with forbidden subjects will always create a fan base, even if the writing is not that good.

Just ask Stephanie Meyers.

Don't misunderstand, I think it's great they've made a lot of money with their brand of literature. It's just not something I would do.
big_smile

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Re: #askELJames

dagnee wrote:

And absolutely, censorship should not be even considered. But when you say the public is speaking loud and clear, I say a 100 million books sold and a solid fan-base is as good, if not a better counter-argument ...


I'm talking about the rational public..lol...and pandering to youth with forbidden subjects will always create a fan base, even if the writing is not that good.
Just ask Stephanie Myers.

Don't misunderstand, I think it's great they've made a lot of money with their brand of literature. It's just not something I would do.
big_smile

LOL! Touche, excellent point you make about rational public hehehe And I hope you use the term "literature" loosely in the company of James and Meyers! Just kidding! smile But yeah, each to their own!

Quote Post 7

8 Reply by Janet Taylor-Perry (edited by Janet Taylor-Perry 2015-07-02 13:28:29)

Re: #askELJames

dagnee wrote:

I have read none of EL James and I'm not going to because I had a roommate who had a dominate relationship with a man. Only she wasn't the one being abused. She wouldn't beat her submissive, (a tiny balding older man, who shook whenever someone looked his way), but she would humiliate him verbally, never let him touch her and made him sleep on the floor at the end of her bed. AND he PAID her for this. I only saw him coming and going, but heard in great detail about their sessions from my roommate. She thought it was funny, I thought it was terribly sad.

I'm sure there's S and M relationships that are perfectly lovely, but I bet more of them are like the one I witnessed. I know you're going to say it was consensual, that the man must have been getting something out of it or he wouldn't have paid. Maybe you're right, but heroin makes you feel good and addicts think they're getting something out of the drug, too.

I don't support censorship because I feel the public will let an author know when they've gone too far, and I wouldn't want someone else to tell me what I could write. It sounds like to me that in the matter of Grey, the public is speaking loud and clear....

smile

WELL SAID, DAGNEE!

Ladies, rest assured my quip about her money-making is meant to be sarcastic and was aimed at the writing, not the content. The writing itself is very amateurish. Yet, she has made a fortune. I didn't even like the Twilight books that she used for inspiration.

I've read some other erotica by folks I met on here. I don't think one is here anymore and one won't be visiting this forum, I'm sure. The former is, perhaps, more abusive in content than James. However, it's at least well-written with a plot, no matter how dark the "romance." I shudder to use that word for the tripe. The latter was sent to me with the request to read the "trash for cash" book and give my opinion. I did: Stick to writing your fantasy and sci-fi. I found nothing remotely "erotic" about this. It's simply vulgar and crude and completely degrading to women.

Take note that the first was written by a woman and the second by a man under a woman's pen name and was about a person forced into being a sex slave--literally sold--nothing consensual about it.

I for one, cannot imagine letting my sex partner hit me with anything. Maybe a tie-up with silk scarves IF we could take turns. But that would be where I draw the line. I must wonder about both individual's self-esteem in these "mutual" relationships.

Give me a good old-fashioned romance. I can even go to "fade to black" and let my imagination do the rest. I don't need a play-by-play. I don't need the crude words or onomatopoeia for the sounds heard during the act. Romance should be about lifting your partner up and making him/her feel like they are the most special person alive.

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Re: #askELJames

I couldn't get further than 2 chapters (and I didn't pay a cent for the torture). Because really, Anna is the most pathetic FMC I've had ever seen,

Janet, I have to disagree. She's the second worst. Bella--HANDS DOWN--is worse.

Quote Post 9

Re: #askELJames

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

I couldn't get further than 2 chapters (and I didn't pay a cent for the torture). Because really, Anna is the most pathetic FMC I've had ever seen,

Janet, I have to disagree. She's the second worst. Bella--HANDS DOWN--is worse.

I didn't read one word of Twilight, but somehow I can believe you on this one.

Speaking of Twilight though. I would've thought the uproar about stalking and abuse would've been way more than FSOG. I mean, Twilight is directly aimed at a younger audience ... Or is it simply a case of FSOG coming along and picking up the target instead, leaving Meyers to get away with it?

And gotcha, it's sometimes hard to pick up on sarcasm. I have no idea how she made so much money with her writing - after two chapters, I had to check how old the author was, because it came across to me as written by a teenager for teenagers (except, given the content, it wasn't).

Quote Post 10

Re: #askELJames

janet reid wrote:
Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

I couldn't get further than 2 chapters (and I didn't pay a cent for the torture). Because really, Anna is the most pathetic FMC I've had ever seen,

Janet, I have to disagree. She's the second worst. Bella--HANDS DOWN--is worse.

I didn't read one word of Twilight, but somehow I can believe you on this one.

Speaking of Twilight though. I would've thought the uproar about stalking and abuse would've been way more than FSOG. I mean, Twilight is directly aimed at a younger audience ... Or is it simply a case of FSOG coming along and picking up the target instead, leaving Meyers to get away with it?

And gotcha, it's sometimes hard to pick up on sarcasm. I have no idea how she made so much money with her writing - after two chapters, I had to check how old the author was, because it came across to me as written by a teenager for teenagers (except, given the content, it wasn't).

James has one dialogue tag--murmured. If I had read that once more, I'd have puked. And Anna only knew how to move one way--clamber.
I read all 3 books. I will admit the second was much better, so maybe she learned something. Then, I read the third, and it was so predictable, I could have written it for her & better!

As for Twilight. Well, Edward is just a latent homosexual pedophile. Bella is a whiny bitch. The only character worth anything is Jacob, and then Meyer had to go have him "imprint" on the baby????"? WTF? Child molester. After that the Indians weren't actually werewolves, but chose that form and were really shape-shifters. And the sparkling in the sun vampires--Bram Stoker is turning over in his grave. And when I read in the first book about Bella driving a 1952 Chevy truck with seat belts, I threw the book across the room. If you're going to put in something of historical significance, get it right. First, Bella was such a f***ing klutz that she couldn't have driven a car with a column shift and a clutch--any and all 1950s truck. Then, since I happen to be an old car buff and go to lots of antique and vintage car shows, the first trucks that had seat belts were 1956 FORDS!!!! I only read the drivel because I wanted to be familiar with what my students were reading.

I'm PMing you some more disturbing erotica to read.

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Re: #askELJames

Anne Rice will always be the Vampire Queen in my heart.

big_smile

Quote Post 12

Re: #askELJames

Janet Taylor-Perry, please share more of the disturbing erotica. We could all use the learning lesson.

Quote Post 13

Re: #askELJames

PByrd wrote:

Janet Taylor-Perry, please share more of the disturbing erotica. We could all use the learning lesson.

Sent you a private message

Quote Post 14