The more we think we learn, the more we see "mistakes" in other works. Kinda like the English teacher who is always catching mistakes in the way people talk. The one on the receiving end may not see the "nit-picking" as a mistake, only natural speech despite the technical incorrectness which the "expert" will notice. I do see things which give me pause in most anything I read anymore, but I try to ignore the interruptions as they detract from the enjoyment and there ain't a damn thing I can do about it after the fact. Once it is spoke, it can't be unspoke. Take care. Vern
326 2018-07-23 20:33:08
Re: New Knowledge, Old Books (8 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
327 2018-07-21 02:29:13
Re: reflected or refracted (21 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Debbie Green wrote:
Vern: The dappling is the most important part - or the part my character's brother is watching.
Yes, it certainly appears to be the most important part of the excerpt. That is why I suggested you might use the dappling to "show" the sparkle and dazzle without having to "tell" the reader it sparkles and dazzles. Of course others may disagree with that assessment and there is nothing wrong with some telling within a story; it is doubtful a good story can be told without some telling. Take care. Vern
328 2018-07-20 22:55:16
Re: reflected or refracted (21 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Dallas Wright wrote:
And to think, with a couple of keystrokes or a flip of a page, this rabbit hole could’ve been spared completely....
George, Charles, and Noah are looking down from heaven and saying, “WTF?”
Probably true, but some rabbit holes are fun to go down. Just ask Alice. Take care. Vern
329 2018-07-20 11:54:18
Re: reflected or refracted (21 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
John Hamler wrote:
Personally? Well, I love how Debbie Green hung in there for the first few advice columns, but then...
Well, then she shut herself up and was like...
THIS SHIT IS GETTING TOO GODDAMNED SCIENTIFIC FOR ME and I'M outta HERE!~
I dunno. Just made me laugh is all.
It's fun to be silly.
Cheers
John
And this bit of "a-cute" observation made me laugh as well. Thanks, John. Take care. Vern
330 2018-07-20 02:32:57
Re: reflected or refracted (21 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Sideman wrote:
alkemi wrote:What about gravitational bending of light, would that count as refraction?
Probably not as refraction is normally the passing of light through a tangible medium. If you apply the principles of Loop Quantum Gravity with General Relativity, by means of the Planck Scale, it indicates that gravitational pull passes the light through a vacuum which causes it to bend, due to a change in velocity. Because the light has not passed through a medium of tangible mass (it passed through a vacuum) it is therefore not refracted, by the definition of refraction.
Einstein agrees with Sideman. He called it "bending light" so it's probably safe to say he would have called it "refraction" if that were the case. Take care. Vern
331 2018-07-20 01:53:33
Re: Who's doing what to whom? (23 replies, posted in HodgePodge)
Go Genesis. Take care. Vern
332 2018-07-20 01:51:17
Re: reflected or refracted (21 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Reflection is the word, but there also might be another question within your example. Do you need to tell the reader it is sparkling and dazzling or might you simply show it with the reflected light creating dapples in the yard and such -- which you are doing anyway. Just a thought. Take care. Vern
333 2018-07-18 23:04:57
Re: Addressing other characters? (8 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Dirk B. wrote:
Seabrass wrote:My issue is with 'Joseph pleaded'. Let the dialogue do the pleading. Let the speaker tag just say 'said'.
As for the second line, I might do an action instead: God was silent for a moment. "Her time has come, Joseph. Have faith."
Relying solely on said probably means using an exclamation mark in the dialogue. I got schooled for too many of those recently. I took advantage of the italics of mind speech to eliminate God said, although I like that God was silent for a moment. I'll add that in.
It seems to me that using italics would be more confusing since it is for "thoughts" and if Joseph is "hearing" the "thoughts" then they are actually "spoken" words rather than real thoughts. Does God have inner thoughts, don't know, but if so, how would you denote them, and if not, why would He have "thoughts" merely for someone to hear. What would distinguish that from speaking? Just some random thoughts -- written out. Take care. Vern
334 2018-07-18 01:37:46
Re: Addressing other characters? (8 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Or it could be, "sayeth the Lord" for variety or Biblical familiarity, depending upon other context. Take care. Vern
335 2018-07-13 22:43:44
Re: Amid, Amidst vs. Among, Amongst (3 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
I think this is one of those times that the sound to the ear is probably a good guide. "Among" the hurricane or "Amidst" the trees just sounds awkward whether within the strict rules of grammar or not. It is definitely not a distinction I would be concerned about should a character utter a sentence using such words. If it sounded weird, then I would probably rewrite the sentence to avoid it altogether rather than checking to see if some rule was bent or broken. That's the way I see it and will probably write it in the future present. Take care. Vern
336 2018-07-10 23:03:38
Re: 200 ways to 'shake your head' (5 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Pretty much the same way "look" could be treated in another post. You describe something which would indicate the head shake as opposed to saying "shook his/her head" in the same way you would describe what someone is seeing as opposed to saying "look" before doing so. Good article. Take care. Vern
337 2018-07-10 22:55:06
Re: 125 Ways to Say "Look" (5 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
You don't really have to say "look" in any way or use synonyms for such. What are you seeing when you "look" at someone's face or whatever it is you're "looking" at? That's what you describe and in doing so, it is obvious you had to "look" in order to see what it is you're looking at. Why say "I looked at her eyes" or any semblance of such when you are going to go right ahead and show the reader what it is you are "looking" at. If you say she has blue eyes, then you must have looked and the reader can figure that out without being told direct; it's like beating them over the head and telling them, "Look, damn it, or else you're gonna miss what I'm about to tell you to look at." Okay, look, that's my opinion. Take care. Vern
338 2018-07-09 19:39:45
Re: Best book on learning to write well? (11 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
"Practice doesn't make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect." Courtesy Lee Trevino I believe, but would certainly apply to writing as well as golf. Writing the same old stuff doesn't improve anything no matter how much you write. Take care. Vern
339 2018-07-09 13:02:26
Re: Best book on learning to write well? (11 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Use your favorite books to read. Study the presentation of voice, dialogue, description, transitions, pace, foreshadowing, characters, sub-plots, etc. We often learn more by examples we enjoy than from self-help books. Punctuation/grammar would probably be an exception to that philosophy. Take care. Vern
340 2018-07-04 16:35:51
Re: Beginner eager for advice (12 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Hi, LA, welcome to the site. Depressing experiences of the memoir type can be handled in different ways and of course the "voice" is crucial to the acceptance by the reader imho. As you mention the HEA results, the things leading up to that are key elements of tension, obstacles, character building, etc. which make for a good story. Depending upon the voice chosen, unpleasant experiences can be presented in a palatable manner for the reader whether gut wrenching or a more lighthearted style. I invite you to check out my novel Root Hog or Die for an example of the lighter side. It is a "memoir" basically, but uses composite characters to protect the guilty. There is no need to leave a review unless you wish to make a comment. Good luck with your writing. Take care. Vern
PS: If you decide to read, all chapters of RHOD beyond the first three are inactive, but I will gladly activate should you wish to continue.
341 2018-06-28 23:21:16
Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre? (43 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
This article has an interesting take on genre and writing to a target audience. Perhaps you will agree with it. Follow the link below. Take care. Vern
342 2018-06-27 12:17:47
Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre? (43 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Deckland Oz wrote:
vern wrote:Agents specialize in one genre? I think not as evidenced by small sample from A.A.R. below. Take care. Vern
I said agents specialize in specific genres, plural, not "one genre" as you indicate above. So your list only proves my point: those are the genres in which those agents specialize.
But again, what's important is simply that if you have no idea what your genre is and you don't state what it is in your query, your chances of an agent asking for pages are severely diminished. Remember that a book is a package deal, now more than ever. For an agent to spend her precious time looking at your book she needs to know from the outset that it is something she can really sell. That means it needs to hit a number of essential points; genre is one of those points. As for genre, it too must hit certain points, i.e., the criteria for that genre. To assume that your writing and your query are so marvelous that they'll simply blow any agent away without consideration for the practical aspects of how it will be sold and marketed is a bit arrogant, and really quite foolish. If you are serious about getting published, you probably want to use every tool at your disposal. Genre is one of those tools.
But listen, I'm not here to argue. I'm sorry if I've put a bee under your bonnet. It certainly isn't my intention. If you disagree with the way I see things, and with the importance of knowing your genre from the start, I've no problem with that. Maybe you're right and I'm full of stuff and nonsense. Probably so. But I have worked in the belly of the beast; I have some idea what I'm talking about.
I don't question your experience in the industry. I agree that the genre is important to the agent/publisher going forward with marketing, etc. What I don't agree with is that it is imperative to know what that genre might ultimately be in the eye of said agent/publisher. My point is that you pick the genre the way you see it and then don't waste a lot of time worrying about whether it is "right" or not. If the agent/publisher thinks it should be something different (and not everyone is going to agree) then they will use whatever they deem the most marketable for them.
Personal story. My first query letter many years ago when I didn't know what a query letter was and made no mention of genre got a very positive response. I had recently joined a writers' group and the initial reaction to my first presentation was that it read like an English 101 essay. It was suggested I change the voice to that of the child protagonist -- much the same way the original To Kill a Mockingbird was switched to the voice of Scout, not the adult. After making the voice switch on the first few chapters, I received many wows and decided I was ready for the big time.
I sent a letter to a reputable agent in NY with no mention of genre as I had no idea what should be in a query letter. I simply wrote the letter in the same voice as the child protagonist and explained my fits and starts in completing the story over many years due to putting food in my belly, etc. The agent responded in the same voice as my letter requesting a sample of three chapters or fifty pages (not sure exactly what it was all these years later) which I sent. Still no mention of genre by me or the agent.
The agent then requested the full manuscript suggesting it might fit in mid-grade. I sent the full manuscript with my opinion that it might not be suitable for mid-grade as the story evolved into more colorful language and graphic activities associated with coming of age. My mistake was that in my eagerness, I did not take the time to revise the rest of the manuscript into the same voice and gentler presentation. Thus the full manuscript was rejected, but it had nothing to do with me not placing it within a specific genre with my query letter. That is my point. Sure, you should state the genre in your query, but not being certain of what that genre is should not be a problem to lose sleep over. It is more of a big deal for the agent/publisher than it is for the author and said agent/publisher knows where to put it if the story has merit. That's the way I see it. Take care. Vern
343 2018-06-27 02:24:47
Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre? (43 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Agents specialize in one genre? I think not as evidenced by small sample from A.A.R. below. Take care. Vern
Biography, Memoir, CHILDREN'S and Y/A, Cooking, Food, Wine, FICTION, Mystery, Thrillers, Romance, Science-fiction, Fantasy, Young adult
Jim McCarthy
Dystel and Goderich Literary Management
African-American, Arts, Cinema, Photography, Biography, Memoir, Comedy, Humor, Erotica, FICTION, Gay + Lesbian, Historical, Horror, Music, Musicals, Mystery, Thrillers, NONFICTON, Pop culture, Entertainment, Religion, Spirituality, Inspiration, Science-fiction, Fantasy, Women's literature, Young adult
Ethan Ellenberg
The Ethan Ellenberg Literary Agency
Biography, Memoir, Business, Investment, CHILDREN'S and Y/A, Comix, Graphic novels, Early readers, FICTION, Middle grade, Mystery, Thrillers, NONFICTON, Picture books, Romance, Science, Technology, Science-fiction, Fantasy, Women's literature, Young adult
Kimberley Cameron
Kimberley Cameron & Associates
Query by Email or Mail
Biography, Memoir, Cooking, Food, Wine, FICTION, Health, Diet, Historical, History, Horror, Literary, Mind, Body, Spirit, Mystery, Thrillers, NONFICTON, Parenting, Family, Politics, Current affairs, Pop culture, Entertainment, Relationships, Family, Religion, Spirituality, Inspiration, Science, Technology, Science-fiction, Fantasy, Self-help, Travel, World cultures, True crime, Women's literature, Young adult
Deborah Schneider
Gelfman Schneider/ICM Partners
Currently not accepting queries
Biography, Memoir, Cooking, Food, Wine, FICTION, Health, Diet, Literary, Mystery, Thrillers, Narrative nonfiction, Politics, Current affairs, Pop culture, Entertainment, Science, Technology, Science-fiction, Fantasy, Women's literature
Shira Hoffman
McIntosh and Otis, Inc.
Email only
Biography, Memoir, Comedy, Humor, Comix, Graphic novels, FICTION, Horror, Middle grade, Mystery, Thrillers, New adult, NONFICTON, Pop culture, Entertainment, Romance, Science-fiction, Fantasy, True crime, Women's literature, Young adult
Barbara Lowenstein
Lowenstein Associates
African-American, Business, Investment, FICTION, Health, Diet, Historical, History, Middle grade, Mind, Body, Spirit, NONFICTON, Politics, Current affairs, Professional, Reference, Science, Technology, Science-fiction, Fantasy, Women's literature, Young adult
344 2018-06-27 02:15:23
Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre? (43 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Deckland Oz wrote:
Wait! Are you Vern's female alter-ego? Okay. Well, that's cool. I'm not judging.
Oh yeah, you're cool. Take care. Vern
345 2018-06-27 02:14:00
Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre? (43 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Deckland Oz wrote:
vern wrote:Deckland Oz wrote:Having actually worked in both marketing and editorial at one of the big NY publishers, I can say with certainty that writing a book which fits clearly into a specific genre is absolutely essential to getting it published, because genre is one of the primary tools publishers use to market books. If you don't know your genre, if it is unclear to everyone, unless you plan to self-publish, you have a serious problem.
I have no doubt that a marketer might put a book in a specific genre for promotion, but if what you state is the case, then give me an example or two of a book which has no elements of any genre other than the one it supposedly fits. And also show me any submission requirements which would state that a book must fit one and only one genre and that genre must be picked by the author in advance. And why would there be such a thing as crossover if a book must fit entirely in one specific genre? Call me skeptical. Thanks. Take care. Vern
Obviously books may have elements of various genres; that's not the point. What is the point is that if you actually want to attract an agent or an editor, you're going to have a much easier time of it if one element of your book is prominent enough to make the work clearly definable as a given genre. As for submission requirements insisting your book be a given genre, it's very likely that some do. Of course, if you're talking about big, reputable publishers, virtually none take direct submissions anymore; you have to find an agent. As for agents, I think very few will request pages if you don't state clearly what your genre is and have a query that backs that claim up. Agents are busy; they have no time to waste figuring out what genre your book is so they can pitch it to an editor. Bear in mind, btw, that most, if not all agents, specialize in specific genres; if I'm an agent who works only in espionage thrillers and horror, and you send me a query that says, "has elements of literary fiction and romance," I'm not reading any further. If this isn't clear, I'm guessing you haven't spent an awful lot of time querying your novel, because it's a pretty basic and widely known fact.
To start with, I've checked dozens of agents and every single one lists multiple (many) genres they accept. And no one said to put in a query that you have elements of different genres. As I stated earlier, you pick whatever genre best fits in your own mind and don't worry about it. I doubt very seriously any agent will decide against a good query and sample (or complete draft as many accept now) because they might not see the genre classification as you do. And btw, you might read clearly the first time before making assumptions and deciding not to read further. Take care. Vern
346 2018-06-27 00:36:31
Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre? (43 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Deckland Oz wrote:
vern wrote:The way I look at it, we often get sidetracked by things which ultimately are pretty much irrelevant in getting a book published. This is one of those things which will take care of itself with the crafting of a good story. Just my three cents (inflation). Take care. Vern
Having actually worked in both marketing and editorial at one of the big NY publishers, I can say with certainty that writing a book which fits clearly into a specific genre is absolutely essential to getting it published, because genre is one of the primary tools publishers use to market books. If you don't know your genre, if it is unclear to everyone, unless you plan to self-publish, you have a serious problem.
I have no doubt that a marketer might put a book in a specific genre for promotion, but if what you state is the case, then give me an example or two of a book which has no elements of any genre other than the one it supposedly fits. And also show me any submission requirements which would state that a book must fit one and only one genre and that genre must be picked by the author in advance. And why would there be such a thing as crossover if a book must fit entirely in one specific genre? Call me skeptical. Thanks. Take care. Vern
347 2018-06-26 22:39:47
Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre? (43 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Most stories, if not all, have elements of more than one specific genre. For instance, a historical novel might also have a love affair and a murder mystery. You pick the element which dominates in your mind and/or intention and go with it. There is a good chance that no matter what you pick, an agent/publisher will choose a different genre. Of course, if you self-publish, it really doesn't matter; you're not marketing the genre, you're marketing the book, hopefully anyway.
The way I look at it, we often get sidetracked by things which ultimately are pretty much irrelevant in getting a book published. This is one of those things which will take care of itself with the crafting of a good story. Just my three cents (inflation). Take care. Vern
348 2018-06-22 22:33:26
Re: Writing dialogue (62 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
I use quite a bit of dialect in my novel Root Hog or Die and have found that reviewers are about evenly split between loving it and not so much. I did lighten it a smidgen over time, but nothing drastic. I finally decided to leave it up to any future publisher/agent as to whether it stays in the current form or is reduced or eliminated. I find it much easier to do away with dialect than to create it in the first place. For any who might be considering using dialect in their writing, it is basically a crap shoot. Take care. Vern
349 2018-06-19 22:43:47
Re: The Satisfaction of Excellence (3 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
The writing is not hard; it's the writing to please others which is difficult. Take care. Vern
350 2018-06-18 13:40:15
Re: Literary, schmiterary! (11 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Deckland Oz wrote:
vern wrote:I've always thought literary fiction to be more character driven than plot driven -- heard that somewhere along the line. So, I suppose you get more in depth character analysis and relationships versus twisting plots and sub-plots, intricate mysteries, etc.. By that standard, I guess my somewhat fictionalized memoir is really literary fiction. Egads, who knew. Take care. Vern
Character-driven vs. plot-driven is only a feature of literary fiction. The term itself was invented by publishers and agents for the purely practical reason of organizing novels into kind, as I said above: If it's fiction and it ain't any genre, it's "literary fiction." Simple as that.
Well, that's all well and good and correct I suppose, but if someone asks what it "is" it seems better to describe some of its features than to simply say it is not something else. Its rather difficult to prove a negative so I guess that's why no one (other than the ones who decide to publish it) really knows what literary fiction is -- it is not. Take care. Vern
