A written story is all "telling" with some aspects being promoted as "showing." No matter how you say it, you are "telling" a story. You may "tell" it with dialogue or narration, but they are both "telling" the story. Someone might say you should "show" the anger by having a person slam their fist on a table or such, but that is still "telling" the story in different words. You are simply telling the reader they slammed their fist on a table rather telling them they were angry. Still "telling" the story.

The dialogue might "tell" the story in what might be perceived as a more "showy" way of "telling" and some narration might offer a more "showy" prose form of "telling" but there is simply no way of telling a story on paper which is not "telling" the story. If you wish to "show" a story, then some form of video would be the best bet. Just "showing" my opinion. Take care. Vern

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(78 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Bring in the murder up front or wait until later in the story, that is the question. I would say that it depends upon the story. Does the murder per se have relevance before the murder occurs or is the murder simply a puzzle for the would be detective to solve? If there is a storyline leading up to the murder, then it could be relayed prior to the murder or it could evolve as the mystery of the murder is resolved. Pick your poison and drink accordingly or write the story the way it unfolds for you as the author and crime solver. Take care. Vern

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(6 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

To get to the correct word count, write while warm and cozy but rewrite in a freezer.
Luke Peters (Edited to correct name)

Take care. Vern

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(78 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
njc wrote:

Topic drift?

No better way to set a topic adrift than to correct grammar and spelling within a forum discussion.

Agree or disagree?

I would agree that the forums are not the appropriate place for correcting grammar, spelling, etc. with the caveat that such correction would be acceptable as a witty response to a misguided verbal attack on the individual making such correction as in the case under discussion. Take care. Vern

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Temple Wang wrote:
vern wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:

Silence is not what came from Empress Wu but irrelevant noise.  Silence can mean several things but often requires a combination of uninterest, ignorance and lack of education.  I reckon you are the exception to the rule.

You certainly make the case for "Silence is golden." Take care. Vern

Don’t poke it, Vern.  Reddit reopened their incel board.  It’ll skitter back under the baseboard soon.
https://media.giphy.com/media/13RNUIRVHff2pi/giphy.gif

Regards,
Empress Wu

LOL. Love your wit. Take care. Vern

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Charles_F_Bell wrote:
vern wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:

Silence is not what came from Empress Wu but irrelevant noise.  Silence can mean several things but often requires a combination of uninterest, ignorance and lack of education.  I reckon you are the exception to the rule.

You certainly make the case for "Silence is golden." Take care. Vern

Once again, there are two or three of you who wish to make this forum battering rams of personalities and not an exchange of information and ideas. If you look at what might have been my only post on this subject, for the OP did not wish to engage, you made no attempt to broach the topic I put there:

Yes, and thank you for that, but is there any objective standard by which one can judge his opinions having any value?   

It can be a yes-or-no question, and even if that doesn't say much, it's honest, and I have said that the subject matter is mostly within a realm of unknown knowns, and the truest answer is:I don't know, but I know what I like. An answer absolutely not coming from that webmaster.

If one looks at the history of your posts, it will become clear who is the battering ram of personalities. It is true, I made no comment on the post you mention because your history has shown a civil discourse with you is futile. Thus, my response regarding silence was an option far from the battering ram you allegedly perceive, I reckon. Take care. Vern

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Charles_F_Bell wrote:
vern wrote:

Silence is quite responsive; it says a great deal should one listen to it. Take care. Vern

Silence is not what came from Empress Wu but irrelevant noise.  Silence can mean several things but often requires a combination of uninterest, ignorance and lack of education.  I reckon you are the exception to the rule.

You certainly make the case for "Silence is golden." Take care. Vern

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(78 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Silence is quite responsive; it says a great deal should one listen to it. Take care. Vern

A few answers:

***
I have read well-researched novels that include either long dedications or sections at the end in which they thank the authors of their research source materials.
posted by Jacqueline at 12:43 PM on September 9, 2009



You could just compile a normal bibliography and add it to the end with a note of explanation. I love it when fiction writers do that, especially when they annotate a bit, regardless of whether their sources are still alive.
posted by mareli at 1:14 PM on September 9, 2009



Not as far as I know, and I'm hoping to publish my first historical novel soon (big departure for me and I am thrilled). Because I am a crazy hyper-researching person I did immense amounts of research, and nobody has, to my knowledge, come up with a "best-practices" document about how best to acknowledge research sources in fiction.

Some people I think do it well are Pat Barker and Thomas Mallon.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:35 PM on September 9, 2009



So long as plagiarism itself is avoided, there is no expectation that an author must credit his or her research sources in fiction. Many fiction authors don't include any acknowledgment at all. However, it is certainly nice when an author acknowledges their sources, either in an acknowledgments page (this works especially well when the author's research was based in interpersonal interaction rather than book research) or a bibliography.

If you are questioning whether a specific source merits inclusion in such a mention, let your barometer be both the magnitude of the source's influence on the work, and the use to the reader in listing the source. For example, say you were writing a book about a firefighter in Victorian New York. If part of your research took up several afternoons of a fire chief's time, it would be good to include him in your acknowledgments even though knowing his name will be of little use to the reader. Conversely, if you ended up only explicitly using a nugget or two of information from a book on Victorian firehouses, but you know it to be an excellent resource on the subject, you might include it in your bibliography because of its benefit to the interested reader.
posted by ocherdraco at 2:08 PM on September 9, 2009



You probably heard about how the authors of Holy Blood, Holy Grail sued for a piece of the Da Vinci Code bazillions. Now, a good portion of the Da Vinci Code really is people sitting around talking about the speculative history developed in Holy Blood, Holy Grail.

They lost. They lost an appeal. They lost about a million pounds reimbursing Random House's legal fees. (All of which speaks somewhat more to legal than ethical.)

As a reader and writer, I'd consider an acknowledgement section in the work to be good enough.

The reference in your last paragraph to putting a real person's words into a fictitious person's mouth opens a whole 'nother can of worms, though. Are words are being quoted verbatim, and, if so, how many? Is it being done just once or how often? Does your character or his/her situation resemble the real person's? Are you presenting the character in a negative light? Is that person living or with an active estate?
posted by Zed at 4:45 PM on September 9, 2009

***

One of particular interest imo is the one about Holy Blood Holy Grail. I read that book before The Da Vinci Code and I would have thought Dan Brown would've lost that case easily, but he won. If Holy Blood Holy Grail couldn't win that case, you might get away with copying a whole damn book. Take care. Vern

In my novel, Root Hog or Die, I killed off one character literally and two other significant ones figuratively, in that they left the story from that point forward. There was sadness in each case dealt with in context.  As your story probably deals in reality to some extent even if fantasy (don't know your genre), people die or move on for various reasons. So too will it be in many a novel. Take care. Vern

Rules, who needs them? Just text it in all lower case. Take care. Vern

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GPyrenees wrote:

What ch? I can repost on hodge poge no problem



Don't know what/where that is, but no big deal. Good luck going forward with G. Enjoyed the story. Did look forward to Connor going down in flames in court before meeting his demise perhaps as someone's bitch in prison, lol. Take care. Vern

Damn, I realized after I turned the computer off last night that this is the HodgePodge forum. I thought it was another website before my brain kicked back in gear. The mind is a terrible thing to waste. Take care. Vern

Edited to edit edit.

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GPyrenees wrote:

Just deleted it.

Yes, I noticed. I was in the middle of a review. What happened to end of week? I thought it was a glitch till I saw this. Take care. Vern

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I'll get a few more reviews by then but won't be able to review all the remaining chapters. I have finished reading the whole thing and will try to include some overall thoughts before you take it down. Good luck with the publishing. Take care. Vern

Haven't read the story, but doesn't really matter since the real question is, "Do people meet, fall in love (or at least think they are) and after a certain amount of time decide to get married and live happily ever after?" Yes, they do. The number of days they spend together before making a lifetime commitment is irrelevant because that number just as well be random since any number of days you choose will have real life adherents from one day to many years before that decision is made and lived with. It happens in real life; it can certainly happen in a novel with no reservation. Anyone who says the situation is unrealistic is out of touch with reality imho. Good luck with the book. Take care. Vern

Temple Wang wrote:
vern wrote:
njc wrote:

It seems to pick random words instead of using the input I gave it.

I think you have to sign up to put in your own stuff. I didn't see any place to do input. If you hit the "Explore" link then it brings up random items to diagram. If you click the "Learn more" link then it wants you to sign up, but still doesn't provide a means to insert your own items to explore. At least that's the way it worked for me. Take care. Vern

It opens with a random word. Then you put any word in. I haven’t signed up for anything. I have used it lots.  Works great.  In fact, I am not aware that there is anything to sign up for.  It’s never asked me, and I don’t even see an option in the menu to “sign up” other than following on Twitter.  I do use it only on mobile devices.  Never tried it on a normal computer.

Since I didn't see a place to enter a word, I clicked on "Learn more" and still didn't see a place to enter a word, but did see some ads for subscribing to things so assumed you must sign up. Going back in again, I tried the menu and nothing there to enter a word. Finally I did see the faint "visualize a word" in top left corner - not very noticeable but clicked on it and was able to type in a word. You don't get a blank or enter or anything, just type in a word and it works. They probably should have something that says "enter word: or such to make it more noticeable, but for free I guess one can't complain. Take care. Vern

njc wrote:

It seems to pick random words instead of using the input I gave it.

I think you have to sign up to put in your own stuff. I didn't see any place to do input. If you hit the "Explore" link then it brings up random items to diagram. If you click the "Learn more" link then it wants you to sign up, but still doesn't provide a means to insert your own items to explore. At least that's the way it worked for me. Take care. Vern

Dirk B. wrote:

He will indeed demonstrate that he can take care of himself before the tour is over.

Thank God! Christ needing protection by the church seems oxymoronic. Take care. Vern

If they really thought he was Christ, you'd think they'd know He doesn't need their protection; more likely they need His. Amazing how some folks, the church, think God is helpless. Armed motorcades for Christ -- I suppose the noise will wake Him up in their minds. Just a thought in passing. Take care. Vern

I would suggest using the route which best works for what you want to relay at a particular time. In the telling of the story you will be guiding the reader to the next location regardless of where it is and in so doing the reader will understand the purpose of this location whether it is in the historical sequence or not.

Say you take a child to a place which was a part of your earlier life and explain what it meant to you during that time period and then you take him to another place you lived before the child was born and explain your time there; it will not matter to the child that the places you visit are not in the original order you are familiar with. The reader will understand that also within the context of the story presented. Make it easy on yourself in the writing. Simple is generally the correct solution. Good luck. Take care. Vern

As long as the stories connect in a reasonable manner in the end (the beginning would be a plus) then I see nothing wrong with the way you are presenting it. It's really a minimal version of a story within stories method of storytelling (The Arabian Nights being an extreme and well known version). Also, within most mysteries, separate parts of the solution don't come together until near the ending. The primarily separate story lines could be perceived as a "hook" for many trying to figure out how they will eventually connect. If you are convinced the story works as two halves, then that is the way you should proceed with confidence. Good writing. Take care. Vern

I would boil it down to, "If you ain't looking for criticism (that means pro and con) then you probably shouldn't be asking for reviews by publishing on a reviewing oriented site. " And if you're overly sensitive, you might want to bathe in salt water for a while to toughen the skin -- and before I get pelted with rotten tomatoes, no, that doesn't give license to rude behavior. Just my take. Take care. Vern

Number 5, nope, not true. I never quit. I POSTPONE for extremely long periods. Take care. Vern

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GPyrenees wrote:

I can post em but have zero time to reciprocate anything.... might piss off a lot of folks...

Recip not necessary. I'm to the point I mostly review what I want without regard for the norm. Take care. Vern

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Way to go, GP. I'll jump on it when I get back from the beach; going to play in The World Amateur Golf Tournament (about 3000 participants of all ages -- and gender -- and handicaps) up and down the Grand Strand. Looking forward to seeing what you've done. Take care. Vern