Re: If you can't say something nice ...

corra wrote:

Sometimes your writing stinks[,] and there's no easy way for me to say it. Saying nothing at all might be "nicer" but...

Your writing stinks. .... lol tongue wink


Your writing sucks a Big One, and if I were you I'd never put pen to paper again.

You should never consider putting ink in your pen again.  It's that bad.

Why'd you come in here with your writing lookin' like that?  Quit wasting my time on this shit.

I know you don't know everything like I do, but trust me when I say this sucks big time.  You need to learn how to write a simple sentence.  Google it if you are smart enough to spell it.  It's g-o-o-g-l-e.  And be sure to put a dot com after it (.com).  Then hit enter (it should be on the right hand side of your keyboard).

:'(

27 (edited by dagnee 2017-08-17 17:51:05)

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

The last reviewer that gave me a nasty, really nasty review was a Helen Chambers. She wrote a two thousand word review of my entry into the fall contest: 'The Master Has To Have It,' treating it like it was a major work of fiction instead of a humorous, unrealistic short story. I only had to read the first paragraph to see her goal was not to help me improve my short story but to demonstrate her sarcastic style of writing. You can always tell when a reviewer's main purpose is not to help you but to prove their own writing ability. I deleted it without reading the rest and blocked her. However, when my entry won, which was a total surprise to me, I left her a little quickie, letting her know my silly little story won and boy, was I glad I didn't listen to her.

It all comes down to whether you have confidence in your work or not. If you do, reviewers like Helen Chambers will find their way to the ignore bin and you will listen to those reviewers, and there are too many on this site to name, who truly mean to help make your work better.
smile
ps...I mentioned the name of the reviewer so Gacela wouldn't think I was talking about her tongue

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Nathan B. Childs wrote:

A lot of dogs, all over the country, and other pets as well are going to have eye damage if their [they're] outside during the solar eclipse. Their curiosity will likely make them look at the partial eclipse, and even one glimpse at the sun will result in permanent damage.

smile

Bill

29 (edited by Sherry V. Ostroff 2017-08-17 17:33:44)

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

I received one of those blistering reviews.  The reviewer told me I needed to go back to school and learn how to write.  Since all the other reviews of the same chapter didn't come close to this person's rant, I ignored it and erased it.  I don't review that person's writing and they will not review mine again.

When I critique your writing, I almost always offer a suggestion and I hope that it provides some instruction.  However, if there is still a question, the writer needs to ask for more clarification. The responsibility goes both ways.

Sherry

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

I was told my writing is 'unreadable' and was asked 'don't they teach English in Ireland?' by reviewers when I first started. Those particular reviews didn't give me any value, and I guess those are the types of reviewers this thread is targeted at.
However, I'm a huge fan of negative feedback. I love it when someone tells me I'm doing something badly, because it gives me the chance to improve.
I think the biggest issue here is respect and empathy. Constructive advice can be given without hurting anyone's feelings or treating anyone badly. We just need to be kind to each other and have respect. By nature, writers are generally a sensitive lot! smile

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Nathan B. Childs wrote:

We came here in the same year, and I remember many times when I didn't get the drift of a reviewer's comments. One of early reviewers was Sarah Scotti, who more or less took me under her wing. One of her first criticisms was how I had used a flashback during a flashback. Ah, the good old days.
By the way, keep your critters out of the partial eclipse shadow next Monday. Perhaps blinders for the donkeys if you don't have barn room.
A lot of dogs, all over the country, and other pets as well are going to have eye damage if their outside during the solar eclipse. Their curiosity will likely make them look at the partial eclipse, and even one glimpse at the sun will result in permanent damage.

Hey, Nathan!  Yes, you and I got here the same year.  I miss those good old days, too! 

Thanks for the warning on the critters.  I bought eclipse-watching glasses for all 40 of them!!  XL for the horses and donkeys!! Our weatherman is predicting an overcast day for Monday, so we may not get to wear them!   jk

Stay safe down there on the coast.   

MJ

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

It was either Ayn Rand, or Nathaniel Brandon, or maybe one of her characters, who said that if someone attacks a man of low self-esteem, the thinks less of himself, if someone attacks a man of high self-esteem, the thinks less of the person who attacks him.  Constructive criticism could be defined as the kind you'd do yourself of yourself,  if you were outside of yourself to do it.  If one of my characters is acting the way another would, but not her, that is worth pointing out.  If in a POV change, one character, who should be talking about guns the way a primitive would, and not the way a sophisticated gunslinger would, then pointing that out is a blessing.  You can't catch everything.  If I'm writing pseudo-scientific gobbledegook, the way they did so well in Star Trek: TNG, I need to know whether it works or not.  A bad review, one intentionally mean, is an expression of the person's own insecurities (Well, at least I'm not *that* bad.) But the proper response to being surrounded by bad writers is Edgar Rice Burroughs--"Hey, I can write as bad as those (best sellers.)"  And he was right, died rich and with a section of Los Angeles named after a character of his. The proper response to a harsh but fair critic is "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."  (Yes, I know that's a cliche.  So hurt me.  Beat me. lol)

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Suin wrote:

I was told my writing is 'unreadable' and was asked 'don't they teach English in Ireland?' by reviewers when I first started. Those particular reviews didn't give me any value, and I guess those are the types of reviewers this thread is targeted at.
However, I'm a huge fan of negative feedback. I love it when someone tells me I'm doing something badly, because it gives me the chance to improve.
I think the biggest issue here is respect and empathy. Constructive advice can be given without hurting anyone's feelings or treating anyone badly. We just need to be kind to each other and have respect. By nature, writers are generally a sensitive lot! smile

They teach English in Ireland?  lol  Not a useful comment, and is of the kind I think Ayn Rand was talking about (see my post).  Negative feedback is probably more important than positive.  I'm following along the lines of Karl Popper, who thought we can know the negative (i.e., when a statement is false) but can't know if it's true.  "For every action, there is an equal, but opposite reaction" can't be proved, as we will never know 'every action.'  However, if we see an alien jumping out of a newspaper building, and it not crumbling, we can say, 'Guess, that was wrong.'  We might not agree on utopia or even social reform, but we know that inequality to the point where people are starving when other people are throwing out food, or dying when there's is an easy medical cure they can't access from lack of health insurance is wrong.  We can know if writing sucks, even if we disagree as to whether Hemingway or Dostovevsky should be followed, or whether a mystery should be introduced with action or the outline of the puzzle (Have no idea what that comment is appropro of. lol) I don't care whether they teach English in Ireland, as long as your writing is as good as James Joyce or Yeats, and not on a par with "Hanna Montana meet Miley Cyrus."

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

John Hamler wrote:

Yeah, but... This is a bit of pretzel logic, if you will.

And if that fails, you can always be a bartender. Everyone loves a bartender. Especially frustrated writers. smile

Cheers

John

LOL, John!
pretzel logic--fallible, twisted or circular reasoning that when dissected is wrong, does not make sense or does not explain the situation rationally.

And leave bartenders out of it! They are important, if undervalued members of society, and staunch supporters of people who just want to drink.

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Rachel (Rhiannon) Parsons wrote:

if someone attacks a man of low self-esteem, the thinks less of himself, if someone attacks a man of high self-esteem, the thinks less of the person who attacks him.  Constructive criticism could be defined as the kind you'd do yourself of yourself,  if you were outside of yourself to do it.

hhmm ...  okay.  Is this the same thing as being beside yourself?  I have been there before!!  smile

To clarify my original post:

I am not saying don't give negative reviews.  I am saying do it in a way that isn't mean.   Be nice.  Your tone is everything.

Anyone on here can give me a review with as many negatives as they want to.  It doesn't bother me.   But if you say it in a mean, condescending way, I might cut your heart out and hand it to you, not for WHAT you said, but how you said it.  I have enough confidence in my own writing abilities to not allow it to be a problem.  However, I did NOT have that confidence when I first joined the site, and some of you folks scared the bejeezus out of me!  Some were heartless and down right cruel.  I remember the first day I posted 6 chapters of a western novel I'd been working on.  I did not know in advance that an unwritten rule around here said only post one chapter a day.  I got my head handed to me on a silver platter for doing that, within an hour of my first post.  I remember one person in particular said, "Hey, idiot, don't hog the front page with all your shit nobody wants to read anyway.  You can only post one per day, and it's not too late to get your money back for the enrollment fee."

I took down every chapter.  A much nicer way to say it would have been, "You're new here and I know you don't know this, but we have an unwritten rule around here that we only post one chapter per day.  That way everybody has a chance to have their work on the front page.  Welcome to the site."

...just saying

36

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

John Hamler wrote:

Yeah, but... This is a bit of pretzel logic, if you will. Pleasantries aside, lemme play Devil's Advocate here and say: This is why we bleeding-heart liberals get called snowflakes. It's why we lost the American Presidency to a troll doll. Sometimes your writing stinks and there's no easy way for me to say it. Saying nothing at all might be "nicer" but...

Criticism doesn't always need to be constructive. And arrogance can be a virtue. Long as it's honest and not steeped in jealousy or whatever the fuck. Honesty TRUMPS all. As long as we bear in mind that the honesty is particular. To a particular audience member. Instead of sifting thru polite reviews, looking for patterns of equivocating criticism, wouldn't it serve us all better to be TOLD how bad we are? To ask a reviewer to be specific and magnanimous about our shittiness is probably asking too much.  I know damn well, when I'm reviewing, that I resort to sarcasm and derision and thinly-veiled contempt at times. I think there's a series of televised commercials out there right now, espousing the same thing. That thing being: What people are REALLY thinking when they look at you and your work/situation.

Therefore, I take umbrage when someone complains about harsh criticism.  It all comes down to writing for yourself. Writing to satisfy yourself. First and foremost. If the consensus returns a damning verdict? Well, then you know that being yourself ain't good enough to satisfy. So become someone else then. That's the beauty of fiction. You can be whoever you think they want you to be. And if that fails, you can always be a bartender. Everyone loves a bartender. Especially frustrated writers. smile
John

You can say 'you have a problem here' without adding 'and it stinks, you runny turd!'

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

I'm a newbie on here, but Marilyn is right. If I come to post on here, I'm looking for help, not criticism that tells me I suck and I should quit. The best writers are neurotic. They swing from I'm good to I suck. Nothing good from's a review that says you suck, you should quit. The purpose of this site is to help newbie writers, not to validate you're better then them. Everyone approaches writing from a different perspective, with difference influences. They may not learn and accept it, and if so that is on them. But your job is to try to teach them how to be better, not be brutal to show the site how talented you are.

Writing is a hard endeavor, and there are many ways to go about it. It's a small club for those who want to do it well.

38 (edited by Suin 2017-08-18 08:45:21)

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

I can't believe someone would say that to you Marilyn! Your writing has been a joy to read!

Marilyn Johnson wrote:

"Hey, idiot, don't hog the front page with all your shit nobody wants to read anyway.  You can only post one per day, and it's not too late to get your money back for the enrollment fee."

What kind of person would say that?!

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Suin wrote:

I can't believe someone would say that to you Marilyn! Your writing has been a joy to read!

Marilyn Johnson wrote:

"Hey, idiot, don't hog the front page with all your shit nobody wants to read anyway.  You can only post one per day, and it's not too late to get your money back for the enrollment fee."

What kind of person would say that?!

I remember the incident... I think it was either 'site admin' or  me. Maybe both.

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Dear new authors: PLEASE BE ADVISED.

People are rude. There are many people out there who see no reason to bother with courtesy. You're going to meet those people here. They are going to review you for quick points and say nothing of value. They are going to review you more sincerely but be too busy for courtesy. They are going to be arrogant and have nothing to offer but proof of that fact. They are going to read out of their genre and offer extremely faulty suggestions that make no sense.

The onus is on you to make something of all that.

I realize this is QUITE DIFFICULT for new writers. If you're new, you're probably filled with self-doubt. That's a good thing, as the alternative is to be filled with egotism -- a far worse affliction.

You're going to have to learn how to tell the difference between healthy feedback and unhealthy feedback. There's a big difference, and there's no self-help manual here in the archives to help you out.

Welcome to Writing 101. The things people say to you in reviews here may confuse and perplex you. Even the friendly reviews will offer conflicting suggestions. Be proactive. Figure it out.

Take the hits, and learn how to write. Because there's going to be rudeness EVERYWHERE. Amazon reviewers? Not known for their courtesy. Agents don't have time to explain why they rejected your novel. Pulitzer winners get grilled. No one cares that it took you ten years to write your book, or that it was inspired by personal trials, or that you think your use of adjectives is unique and daring, or that you named all of your characters after your favorite pets.

People are going to be tough. They are going to read your book through their own filters. They are going to hate it, or they are going to love it.

Know who you are. Be stronger than all that, because it's going to get worse.

You have to believe in your ability as an author -- more than anyone. WHICH IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE because you don't want to love your work so much you fail to hear tough advice like "your writing stinks" when that's the best advice you could hear. But you also don't want to be so hesitant about your work that you listen to all the conflicting feedback and lose yourself. Because the feedback is going to be conflicting. Remarkably conflicting. One man's gold is another man's coal.

Somewhere in there you must locate the startling truth that is your very own to share, and get it on the page, and realize that it is destined to be wholly imperfect, as you are, and make a decision about what you want it to say and learn as well as you can how you want to say it, and end the day pleased with yourself for somehow finding the ability in this completely disorienting world to try. And you have to know when to let it go. It will never be perfect.

Have enough respect for your work that you are willing to listen to feedback, but never lose sight of yourself or your vision. Learn how to distinguish what helps your work, and what harms it.

If a John Hamler comes along and tells you that you stink, don't assume he's just being rude. You might stink! No shame in it -- we're all learning. BUT, if he offers you absolutely no justification for his remark, and you can't find a way to seek clarity from others on the topic, go to bed at night without troubling yourself over the fact. The realization that you will stink now and then is not an obstacle. Losing your nerve because someone tells you that you stink without telling you why is far worse. Tossing and turning and wallowing in self-doubt is not writing. Approaching your work honestly and doing what you can with your talent is writing. If the advice you receive accomplishes nothing but crippling self-doubt, you may officially discard it. It has not helped.

{Not to worry! If you stink, there's someone out there who will tell you why.} smile

Now, if a John Hamler comes along and says, "Gent, your work stinks. Here's the issue," you may have something. This John Hamler may be abrupt and disinclined to take the time to be courteous, but if he can pinpoint what it is about your work that isn't working, LISTEN TO HIM. He has given you something solid to think about. Specifics is what you want. As you grow as a writer, you'll learn to distinguish between helpful specifics and harmful specifics, but for now, you have something specific. You can build on that.

Remember you don't know John Hamler from anyone, so don't give his feedback too much credence. Just take it in, as a means to learn. See it as perspective, not fact. Remember he can probably see a lot in your work you cannot see, because he didn't write it. That's what you want -- responses beyond yourself. Later you can determine whether or not his is helpful. Don't hear it with your heart. Hear it objectively. He has nothing personal against you. He's responding to what you've put on the page.

Be thankful for the John Hamlers who will give it to you straight, because the world is not only remarkably rude, it is astonishingly disingenuous. Courtesy is mighty fine, but truth is finer. You don't want your hand held; you want facts. Take that however they serve it. It's rarer to be honest than to be nice.

Some people have nothing to offer in a review and have no idea what you are trying to say when you write and will lack the talent to realize their opinion is not objective analysis. Some people will have incredible insight and lack the ability to present it gently. There's a difference.

When you are a new writer, you likely have no barometer to distinguish between the useful writing advice and the poisonous kind. That's on you to cure. Do independent research, read ravenously, write, write, write, and don't take things to heart if they seem adverse to common sense. You will learn as you experience -- and that's what the rude reviewers can offer you -- abundant experience. It's going to sting at first. Figure it out.

Don't wait around for the world to suddenly become polite for you and your book. It's not going to happen. Hike up your breeches and take it on the chin. Learn what you can, and don't stay up all night puzzling over stupidity. If you melt every time someone is an idiot, you're not going to make it out the door. Figure out how to hear your own perspective without losing the ability to listen. It's a tough world out there. Be the rare jewel. If you can't change the world, learn how to live in it. Let it make you better. That's my advice for life.

{I'm half writing this for myself. Mean reviews bring me down, down, down. And I found them extremely confusing as a new writer. I think you have to experience that to grow as a writer, though, because the truth is, when others look at your work -- they throw it into relief. You see your own work with more clarity because your vision is juxtaposed with theirs. So your awareness of your own work, your own style, your own voice, and your own distinct strengths and weaknesses grows. You realize what it is that makes you stand out. Some of the things people try to filter out of your work here are the human imperfections that make it yours. When you can figure that out, you have grown. But that's a whole other story.}

To conclude, even rude reviewers have something to offer! They toughen you up. So shake hands all around, folks. We have them aplenty here. big_smile

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Dill Carver wrote:
Suin wrote:

I can't believe someone would say that to you Marilyn! Your writing has been a joy to read!

Marilyn Johnson wrote:

"Hey, idiot, don't hog the front page with all your shit nobody wants to read anyway.  You can only post one per day, and it's not too late to get your money back for the enrollment fee."

What kind of person would say that?!

I remember the incident... I think it was either 'site admin' or  me. Maybe both.

I didn't want to give you a public flogging, Dill Carver.  But since you've brought it out yourself...  LOL!!!

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Marilyn Johnson wrote:

"Hey, idiot, don't hog the front page with all your shit nobody wants to read anyway.  You can only post one per day, and it's not too late to get your money back for the enrollment fee."

Wow! One learns something new every day. It's good I've just learnt this unwritten TNBW rule, in case someday I dare pour half of my story chapters on the site in one single shot. Does anybody has in writing all the TNBW unwritten rules? I'm terrified I might be scolded as Marilyn was each time I violate one of those. How about ending sentences with prepositions? Or splitting infinitives? Gosh! Just thinking about breaking one of those rules gives me the creeps.

Now, seriously: Marilyn, idiots like the one who issued the above comment don't deserve to be part of this site, not to say to call themselves writers. They should be ones asking to get their enrollment fees back.

If somebody floods the front page with their work, what the hell? It's not that the reviewers only search the front page. And it's not that the front page is static and your list of chapters will remain there for ages, jamming it. God! What kind of mental patients used to populate TNBW back then? One may post as many chapters as one wishes on a single day, and nobody should be complaining, even if the front page is temporarily overflowed. If anybody has an issue, the best they can do is to print out exactly those chapters they're complaining about, neatly roll up the paper sheets, fasten them with Scotch tape (for safety reasons), and f**k themselves!

Kiss,

Gacela

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Mariana, that limitation of the site has been addressed. I just published three chapters for the same book and only the last one shows up. If someone clicks on it, they're taken to the posting view where they can select any of the chapters to review.

44 (edited by dagnee 2017-08-18 18:46:31)

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Mariana Reuter wrote:
Marilyn Johnson wrote:

"Hey, idiot, don't hog the front page with all your shit nobody wants to read anyway.  You can only post one per day, and it's not too late to get your money back for the enrollment fee."

Wow! One learns something new every day. It's good I've just learnt this unwritten TNBW rule, in case someday I dare pour half of my story chapters on the site in one single shot. Does anybody has in writing all the TNBW unwritten rules? I'm terrified I might be scolded as Marilyn was each time I violate one of those. How about ending sentences with prepositions? Or splitting infinitives? Gosh! Just thinking about breaking one of those rules gives me the creeps.

Now, seriously: Marilyn, idiots like the one who issued the above comment don't deserve to be part of this site, not to say to call themselves writers. They should be ones asking to get their enrollment fees back.

If somebody floods the front page with their work, what the hell? It's not that the reviewers only search the front page. And it's not that the front page is static and your list of chapters will remain there for ages, jamming it. God! What kind of mental patients used to populate TNBW back then? One may post as many chapters as one wishes on a single day, and nobody should be complaining, even if the front page is temporarily overflowed. If anybody has an issue, the best they can do is to print out exactly those chapters they're complaining about, neatly roll up the paper sheets, fasten them with Scotch tape (for safety reasons), and f**k themselves!

Kiss,

Gacela

Gacela,
Back in those days the site was littered with bullies. They also hooked nasty, nasty, nasty reviews to your work knowing if you deleted them you deleted all of the reviews attached to that work, costing you points to republish as well as losing your standing in the site rankings. Also, there was nothing to stop them from trolling you because you couldn't block them.

Thank God Sol recognized we needed more control over our content and gave us the option not only to delete nasty reviews meant to bully but to block those who wrote them.

smile

lol @ the f bomb!

45 (edited by Mariana Reuter 2017-08-18 19:32:51)

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Suin wrote:

I was told my writing is 'unreadable' and was asked 'don't they teach English in Ireland?' by reviewers when I first started. Those particular reviews didn't give me any value, and I guess those are the types of reviewers this thread is targeted at.

This is another example of a frustrated, low-self-esteem, smug, bloody writer who thinks they are the only ones capable of writing a bestseller. If so, what are they doing here, seeking feedback from people who are not taught English in their own countries?

Rest assure, my dear Suin, that your writing is lovely and that you're one of the best YA writers in TNBW, despite not having been taught English in Ireland tongue.

Kiss,

Gacela

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Gacela. Thinking of a split infinitive!  I'm shocked.  And here I thought you were such a nice person.  In the immortal words of Winston Churchill (British Prime Minister and Savior of his country), "A split infinitive is something up with which we will not put!"

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Norm d'Plume wrote:

Mariana, that limitation of the site has been addressed. I just published three chapters for the same book and only the last one shows up. If someone clicks on it, they're taken to the posting view where they can select any of the chapters to review.

Yes, Norm's right.  Today, if you post chapter 12, followed by 13, then 14, only 14 will show up on the front page.  But that's not the way it was in 2008 when I joined.  If you posted more than one, they all showed up, which of course knocked someone else's newly posted work off the bottom of the front page.  That's when this particular person got pissed and sent me that blistering review.

48 (edited by Dill Carver 2017-08-18 20:42:05)

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Mariana Reuter wrote:

If somebody floods the front page with their work, what the hell? It's not that the reviewers only search the front page. And it's not that the front page is static and your list of chapters will remain there for ages, jamming it. God! What kind of mental patients used to populate TNBW back then?

It was a completely different site back then; almost unrecognisable. The entire dynamic has changed and the front page had a different function compared to nowadays.

Novels, Short Stories and Poems were ranked by review in a kind of league table. This led to an extremely competitive environment (for those who were in the race). 'Highest ranked novel' on the site was a hotly contested position. The most successful novels would win expert or professional reviews on a monthly or periodical basis.

Not just the writers were judged, reviewers were ranked and graded too. Those reviewers who chalked-up the most reviews were recognised in the same league-table fashion but also the reviewers who were deemed to be the most helpful and effective and expert were recognised and awarded accredited status.   

The competitive nature of the site back then inevitably led to a lot of passion and emotion. It was an extremely vibrant and exciting community and inevitably the emotions boiled over, flared-up and caught fire regularly.

There were two ends of the scale; the highly charged assertive kind with the rhino-hide who felt they could not suffer fools and would trample the un-trained writer underfoot, and the whinging ultra-fragile adult baby people who would burst into histrionic fits at the first honest critique of their precious prose or rude word or expletive they found in another's work.

Then of course, there was everybody else (the vast majority) in between. Everybody in the middle suffered a little from those at each extremity.

The site was very centric. Condensed into a single spine, both for works submitted and for the forum. This concentrated everything into one large boiling pot.

The new tNBW site dissolved the centralised 'large hall' aspect into separated groups (or rooms) of interest; each its own separate publishing area and dedicated forum.

The competitive aspect of the site was revoked. Novels, Short Stories and Poems are no longer ranked competitively, they are published, distributed about the site in a decentralised manner. Reviewers are no longer recognised, ranked, appraised and accredited.

The site in effect has leveled-out. It is a passive and uncompetitive place. A safe and stable environment. It has gone from the excitement of a fiery bull-pit of a free-for-all rodeo to the sedated day room of a retirement home.

Some writers loved the blood, spit and sawdust community of the old site and moved on to that 'other place'  Others prefer the quiet, calm and unchallenging safety and detachment of the submerged new tNBW. Some of us straddle them both. 

One thing is for sure, you cannot compare the old tNBW with the current tNBW, they are as different a Saturday night Las Vegas and Tuesday morning Volgograd.

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Dill Carver wrote:

It was a completely different site back then; almost unrecognisable. The entire dynamic has changed and the front page had a different function compared to nowadays.

Novels, Short Stories and Poems were ranked by review in a kind of league table. This led to an extremely competitive environment (for those who were in the race). 'Highest ranked novel' on the site was a hotly contested position. The most successful novels would win expert or professional reviews on a monthly or periodical basis.

Not just the writers were judged, reviewers were ranked and graded too. Those reviewers who chalked-up the most reviews were recognised in the same league-table fashion but also the reviewers who were deemed to be the most helpful and effective and expert were recognised and awarded accredited status.   

The competitive nature of the site back then inevitably led to a lot of passion and emotion. It was an extremely vibrant and exciting community and inevitably the emotions boiled over, flared-up and caught fire regularly.

The site in effect has leveled-out. It is a passive and uncompetitive place. A safe and stable environment. It has gone from the excitement of a fiery bull-pit of a free-for-all rodeo to the sedated day room of a retirement home.

I tried to think of a way to describe to a former member the atmosphere of the site today.  I love 'the sedated day room of a retirement home!'  You are so right, Dill!  No comparison today to its former fire and brimstone days.  Lots of participation back then, as we tried to knock the Number One novel off its perch with every chapter we posted of our own work!  I do miss the competitiveness of the old site.  LOL!  Not to mention the reviewing competitiveness between Sonny and Flo, always at the number one and number two spots as far as reviewers went.  I also liked the banner at the top that picked out a novel and gave the author's name and the name of the novel.

Re: If you can't say something nice ...

Marilyn Johnson wrote:

I tried to think of a way to describe to a former member the atmosphere of the site today.  I love 'the sedated day room of a retirement home!'  You are so right, Dill!  No comparison today to its former fire and brimstone days.  Lots of participation back then, as we tried to knock the Number One novel off its perch with every chapter we posted of our own work!  I do miss the competitiveness of the old site.  LOL!  Not to mention the reviewing competitiveness between Sonny and Flo, always at the number one and number two spots as far as reviewers went.  I also liked the banner at the top that picked out a novel and gave the author's name and the name of the novel.

There are pro's and cons, that's for sure. A member could go from cheers to tears and back in a single session. I joined in 2006 and at that time in my life, I feel that I can honestly say that the old tNBW site saved my life. I think I completed 1500 reviews in the first two years and learned so very much. The camaraderie, the community, it was very special. New fledgling writers, slowly unfurling their wings and learning how to fly. You could watch it; share the experience together. It was a very special place. Yes there were spats, there was the occasional idiot but it made for a rich stew rather than a bland gruel.

I lament the loss of the old site, not least of all for the content of all of those forums and all those reviews. Thousands of hours of effort, the gems and pearls. All lost.

To be honest, I cant really bring myself to invest in the new tNBW like I did the old. It could all disappear again tomorrow, so what's the point?