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There was a very useful and popular (commonly used) thread on the old site entitled ‘Ask the Expert’
Members would ask the site for first-hand knowledge upon specialist subjects and sure as eggs are eggs, somebody would know the answer (or know where to get it).
I can’t see it replicated here, if it does exist anywhere, sorry for this duplication.
My question is about cans/tins. I’m from the UK but writing some lines featuring a North American male, from Boston.
In terms of tinned (or canned) food or drink would he say;
‘A can of Coke.’ or ‘A tin of Coke.’ ‘Tinned food.’ or ‘Canned food.’ ‘can-opener’ or ‘tin-opener’ or would it even matter i.e. are the two expressions completely interchangeable, neither sounding alien to the American ear?
Thanks in advance, Dill.
I have never heard the word tin used in that way, so I'd say go with can for sure. Of course, I'm west coast and that can be very different from east coast, at times.
-Elisheva
I believe this subject actually came up on the old site. At any rate: We would say a "can of Coke, canned food, can opener. We would also say "tin can" to refer to a can in general. The "tin" comes from when cans were actually lined with tin to keep them from rusting on the inside. That is generally no longer the case, but the word still sticks. Hope that helps. Take care. Vern
What Vern said--plus, if he's from Boston, a popular term for sugary canned drinks is soda.
I believe this subject actually came up on the old site. At any rate: We would say a "can of Coke, canned food, can opener. We would also say "tin can" to refer to a can in general. The "tin" comes from when cans were actually lined with tin to keep them from rusting on the inside. That is generally no longer the case, but the word still sticks. Hope that helps. Take care. Vern
It did Vern - I looked for it. Har! I'm still writing that self same scene in that self same story!
In the UK we'd say (or I'd say) ; 'A tin of fruit' and yet I'd say 'a can of beer' I don't know why the distinction, but that's just the way the terms flow.
What Vern said--plus, if he's from Boston, a popular term for sugary canned drinks is soda.
Thanks Linda. In the context of a story, I'm talking about a WWII American Infantryman confronted with British Army rations, specifically a tin of bully beef.
I am reminded of a saying that means the same thing, but in "American" English, it makes sense. In "British" English, it just sounds strange.
American English: "Americans eat whatever food they can, and what they can't, they can."
British English: "Americans eat whetever food they can, and what they can't, they put up in tins."
See what I mean?
~Tom
Linda Lee wrote:What Vern said--plus, if he's from Boston, a popular term for sugary canned drinks is soda.
Thanks Linda. In the context of a story, I'm talking about a WWII American Infantryman confronted with British Army rations, specifically a tin of bully beef.
Bostonian's would call that canned beef.
They would call it canned. I'm not sure about 'beef'.
I am reminded of a saying that means the same thing, but in "American" English, it makes sense. In "British" English, it just sounds strange.
American English: "Americans eat whatever food they can, and what they can't, they can."
British English: "Americans eat whatever food they can, and what they can't, they put up in tins."See what I mean?
~Tom
Nice!!!! The scene I'm writing is set during WWII in1994 in the Netherlands during a joint allied operation. It is a matter of historical record that; ‘For Operation Market Garden, the U.S. 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions would be maintained from British stocks for all common items such as food and fuel.
I have spoken with a Grenadier Guards veteran who served in the British 30(XXX) Corps, 5th Guards Armoured Brigade during the operation. During our conversation he recalled a scene where behind the cover afforded by his parked tank, a small group of US, 82nd Airborne chaps without their familiar K-Rations were having a laugh, understanding and coming to terms with the British food items. For example, where a can of Pork Loaf was a staple meat/protein issue within their native ration packs, so tinned Corned-Beef (Bully) was a staple British meat/protein ration; and so on. Some of the soldiers in 1944 had never previously been out of their County or State, and without the information abundant internet and global media of today, the differing cultural aspects between inter-continental nations was obviously much wider (blind) and these guys were unfamiliar with each other’s field ration pack food items.
The US K-Ration was adjudged by diners of all nationalities to be far superior to the British ‘24-Hour Ration Pack’. The US version contained chocolate, cigarettes and coffee; whereas the British had hardtack biscuits, boiled sweets and tealeaves.
The almost irrelevant scene of these guys grappling to come to terms with alien bully beef and tealeaves during a cataclysmic conflict is an endearing one to me. It displays a human side during adversity. Although a part of the fiction within my story, it actually happened and I feel that detail like this adds to the credibility of a story – if you get the words right!!
I really like your example, Tom.
American English: "Americans eat whatever food they can, and what they can't, they can."
British English: "Americans eat whatever food they can, and what they can't, they put up in tins."
I’d like to work a variation of it into the dialogue of my novel, if that is okay with you?
Cheers Dill
Bostonian's would call that canned beef.
Thanks Linda
Although, I'm thinking now of having my character coming from somewhere less urban/cosmopolitan and more of a rural, remote origin to make the character more insular and less worldly-wise. An American/British half-blood here at work has suggested the Ozarks region of Missouri as a good location of origin for a character who might have a limited international experience and knowledge (especially in the 1940’s).
I’m not sure if I trust her judgement, I think I’ve been to the USA more often than she has.
No offence to anyone intended, but the Ozarks region of Missouri for a stereotypical someone who is less than worldly-wise in 1940? Good choice or wide of the mark?
Linda Lee wrote:Bostonian's would call that canned beef.
Thanks Linda
Although, I'm thinking now of having my character coming from somewhere less urban/cosmopolitan and more of a rural, remote origin to make the character more insular and less worldly-wise. An American/British half-blood here at work has suggested the Ozarks region of Missouri as a good location of origin for a character who might have a limited international experience and knowledge (especially in the 1940’s).
I’m not sure if I trust her judgement, I think I’ve been to the USA more often than she has.No offence to anyone intended, but the Ozarks region of Missouri for a stereotypical someone who is less than worldly-wise in 1940? Good choice or wide of the mark?
I think the Ozarks would be a good choice for someone who is less than worldly-wise. Also, Appalachia, where I hail from.
Li'L Abner by Al Capp may give you some grist for you mill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li%27l_Abner
Dogpatch[edit]
Exceeding every burlesque stereotype of Appalachia, the impoverished backwater of Dogpatch consisted mostly of hopelessly ramshackle log cabins, "tarnip" fields, pine trees and "hawg" wallows. Most Dogpatchers were shiftless and ignorant, the remainder were scoundrels and thieves. The menfolk were too lazy to work, yet Dogpatch gals were desperate enough to chase them (see Sadie Hawkins Day). Those who farmed their turnip fields watched "Turnip termites" swarm by the billions every year, locust-like, to devour Dogpatch's only crop, (along with their homes, their livestock and all their clothing.) The local geography was fluid and vividly complex; Capp continually changed it to suit either his whims or the current storyline. Natural landmarks included (at various times) Teeterin' Rock, Onneccessary Mountain, Bottomless Canyon, and Kissin' Rock, (handy to Suicide Cliff). Local attractions that reappeared in the strip included the West Po'k Chop Railroad, the "Skonk Works"—a dilapidated factory located on the remote outskirts of Dogpatch, and the General Jubilation T. Cornpone memorial statue.
In the midst of the Great Depression, the hardscrabble residents of lowly Dogpatch allowed suffering Americans to laugh at yokels even worse off than themselves.[24] In Al Capp's own words, Dogpatch was "an average stone-age community nestled in a bleak valley, between two cheap and uninteresting hills somewhere." Early in the continuity Capp a few times referred to Dogpatch being in Kentucky, but he was careful afterwards to keep its location generic, probably to avoid cancellations from offended subscribing Kentucky newspapers. From then on, he referred to it as Dogpatch, USA and did not give any specific location as to excatly where it was supposed to be located. Humorously enough, many states tried to claim ownership to the little town (Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, etc), yet Capp would not budge. He left it at Dogpatch USA so there would be no headaches and problems. Like the Coconino County depicted in George Herriman's Krazy Kat and the Okefenokee Swamp of Walt Kelly's Pogo, Dogpatch's distinctive cartoon landscape became as identified with the strip as any of its characters. Later, Capp licensed and was part-owner of an 800-acre (3.2 km2) $35 million theme park called Dogpatch USA near Harrison, Arkansas.
Memphis Trace
I’d like to work a variation of it into the dialogue of my novel, if that is okay with you?
Cheers Dill
No problem, Dill. I have no idea where I heard/read the little blurb, but I'm sure it is in the public domain.
Happy you liked it.
~Tom
I am very old, so I believe what my mom told me may be right. The phrase was "We eat what we can, and what we can't, we can." It referred to a campaign in the US encouraging citizens to maintain a vegetable garden, thereby enjoying fresh vegetables in season and preserving ("canning") the surplus for use in winter months. I always thought it was clever, but I don't remember if this campaign began during the Great Depression, or if it was a WWII drive. Both were times of shortages and hardship. I think it was probably the latter.
As an aside, I live on the edge of Coconino county, and my office wall is adorned with a collage of the antics of Krazy Kat and Ignatz Mouse, the hundred-year-old creations of George Harriman. The background scenery is recognizable (and clearly labelled) as the area surrounding the present-day town of Sedona.
There are unsophisticated people everywhere--you should probably choose a place that has a colorful name, like Dime Box, Texas or Bumble Bee, Arizona. I know there are many others. That way, readers will have a little smile amid the horror and devastation of war.
This is just my way of thinking. JP
........$35 million theme park called Dogpatch USA near Harrison, Arkansas.
Memphis Trace
Wow! Thanks MT
Dogpatch USA! Truth as ever, being stranger than fiction.
With my character I'm not looking at poking fun at the guy by suggesting him a hillbilly or bumpkin. These are fine fighting men and I've nothing but the utmost respect and gratitude toward them all.
This character is within a cameo role rather than a main player in the story.
Many of the 82nd Airborne had been stationed and training in England for some time building up to the D-Day invasion. Having had some time to acclimatise and assimilate, by the time of my story, I guess these guys would be somewhat familiar with quirky English and European ways. However later on that year, by the time of the ‘Market Garden Operation’ hundreds of replacement troops were shipped in from the States and entered service in Europe almost directly from their training bases in Camp Claiborne, Louisiana or Fort Bragg, North Carolina.
I want to promote that ‘fish out of water’ or traveller in a strange land quality. The 1940’s North American backwoodsman is suddenly propelled from the US into Holland, fighting the Germans and alongside the Polish, brewing tea and eating bully-beef with the British Guards Armoured division (i.e. a mixture of English Grenadier and Coldstream Guards, Welsh Guards, Scots Guards and Irish Guards). If I could possibly capture an air of his unfamiliarity and astonishment I’d be very happy.
In my own experience at aged eighteen and two days -- and after only having previously been abroad for very civilized family holidays in France, Spain and Switzerland -- being thrust into the epi-centre of an African civil-war with the UN. One day I was in the snug of an English country pub, eating pie and mash with a pint of Guinness by the fireside. The next, in 105 °F in a country resembling the surface of the moon, loading machete mutilated corpses onto a pyre for cremation. Dinner was a very warm tin of peaches, pieces of goat and water that tasted of diesel fuel and swimming pool.
I must have cut a fine figure; the warrior, petrified out of his lilly-white skin with ill-fitting boots, teenage acne and knock knees.
So at least I have that to draw upon
Har! Memphis!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li%27l_Abner
The best Wikipeadia page ever! (or the best south of Slobbovia and that's for sure)
Thanks for that!
The Flapaloo— A scrawny, prehistoric bird that lays 1,000 eggs per minute. The eggs, when dissolved, turn water into gasoline. The Oil industry captures the last one in existence— and mercilessly wrings its neck!
Memphis Trace wrote:........$35 million theme park called Dogpatch USA near Harrison, Arkansas.
Memphis Trace
Wow! Thanks MT
Dogpatch USA! Truth as ever, being stranger than fiction.With my character I'm not looking at poking fun at the guy by suggesting him a hillbilly or bumpkin. These are fine fighting men and I've nothing but the utmost respect and gratitude toward them all.
This character is within a cameo role rather than a main player in the story.
Many of the 82nd Airborne had been stationed and training in England for some time building up to the D-Day invasion. Having had some time to acclimatise and assimilate, by the time of my story, I guess these guys would be somewhat familiar with quirky English and European ways. However later on that year, by the time of the ‘Market Garden Operation’ hundreds of replacement troops were shipped in from the States and entered service in Europe almost directly from their training bases in Camp Claiborne, Louisiana or Fort Bragg, North Carolina.
I want to promote that ‘fish out of water’ or traveller in a strange land quality. The 1940’s North American backwoodsman is suddenly propelled from the US into Holland, fighting the Germans and alongside the Polish, brewing tea and eating bully-beef with the British Guards Armoured division (i.e. a mixture of English Grenadier and Coldstream Guards, Welsh Guards, Scots Guards and Irish Guards). If I could possibly capture an air of his unfamiliarity and astonishment I’d be very happy.
In my own experience at aged eighteen and two days -- and after only having previously been abroad for very civilized family holidays in France, Spain and Switzerland -- being thrust into the epi-centre of an African civil-war with the UN. One day I was in the snug of an English country pub, eating pie and mash with a pint of Guinness by the fireside. The next, in 105 °F in a country resembling the surface of the moon, loading machete mutilated corpses onto a pyre for cremation. Dinner was a very warm tin of peaches, pieces of goat and water that tasted of diesel fuel and swimming pool.
I must have cut a fine figure; the warrior, petrified out of his lilly-white skin with ill-fitting boots, teenage acne and knock knees.
So at least I have that to draw upon
Here's another hillbilly hero: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_York_(film)
An excerpt:
Alvin York (Gary Cooper), a poor young Tennessee hillbilly, is an exceptional marksman, but a ne'er-do-well prone to drinking and fighting, which does not make things any easier for his patient mother (Margaret Wycherly). He changes when he meets Gracie Williams (Joan Leslie), and works night and day to buy a good farm so she'll marry him. When he's cheated out of it at the last minute, he returns to his dissolute ways.
Late that night, he is struck by lightning during a rainstorm. Finding himself outside the meeting house where a revival is going, he goes in and undergoes a religious awakening and vows never to get angry at anyone ever again. He makes amends with the men who cheated him out of the land and tries to with Gracie.
When the U.S. declares war in World War I, York tries to avoid induction into the Army as a conscientious objector because of his religious beliefs, but is drafted nonetheless. His status as a conscientious objector is rejected since his church has no official standing, and he reluctantly reports to Camp Gordon for basic training. His superiors discover that he is a phenomenal marksman and decide to promote him to corporal.
York still wants nothing to do with the Army and killing. Major Buxton (Stanley Ridges), his sympathetic commanding officer, tries to change York's mind, citing sacrifices made by others all throughout the history of the United States. He gives York a leave to go home and think it over. He promises York a recommendation for his exemption as a conscientious objector if York remains unconvinced.
While York is fasting and pondering, the wind blows his Bible open to the verse "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." York reports back for duty and tells his superiors that he can serve his country, despite not having everything figured out to his satisfaction, leaving the matter in God's hands.
Memphis
If you want real and hero and backwoods, check out Sergeant York, the most decorated soldier of WW1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_C._York
There is also an old movie you might catch. Take care. Vern
Took my kids to Dogpatch many years ago. I think it is defunct now. Good memory. Had not heard of Jubilation T. Cornpone in years.
I was more of a shmoo lover. Even tried to dress as one for a Sadie Hawkins Day dance in 1957. Ended up as Fearless Fosdick because I needed my arms. But this is now off-topic. Cheers...
~Tom
Alvin York is a good example of a backwoods type who becomes a hero when thrust into war. Another would be Audie Murphy, born of a sharecropper family in Texas, who lied about his age to be accepted in the Army during WWII, and who received just about every award given to soldiers, including two Silver Stars and the Medal of Honor.
Took my kids to Dogpatch many years ago. I think it is defunct now. Good memory. Had not heard of Jubilation T. Cornpone in years.
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My question is about cans/tins. I’m from the UK but writing some lines featuring a North American male, from Boston.
In terms of tinned (or canned) food or drink would he say;
‘A can of Coke.’ or ‘A tin of Coke.’ ‘Tinned food.’ or ‘Canned food.’ ‘can-opener’ or ‘tin-opener’ or would it even matter i.e. are the two expressions completely interchangeable, neither sounding alien to the American ear?
Thanks in advance, Dill.
In the US? I have never heard any one use the word tin to refer to cans.
If you're writing it as an American speaking, use can. If it's the Brit speaking, use tin. If it's in narration, use what would be natural to you. In the UK, you might well grab a tin of cola. Here, we'd grab a can of cola. If your narrator is from the UK, it would be natural to use language appropriate to the narrator's origin. If your story is set in the UK, tin it is (Unless you have the American speaking.). If you set your story in the US, make it authentic to the area where the story takes place.
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