426

(172 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Dill Carver wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:
njc wrote:

True of all philosophy.  So ... we should stop asking?

Only "true" in the sophistry of Carver's implicit solipsism - when in reality "any definition" (which is of a word created for a concept) is true to the extent it can be demonstrated to correspond to the nature of things.  http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth-correspondence/

The only true in Bell's end, is that it is.

Well then, The Incoherence Theory it is.

427

(172 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Dill Carver wrote:

Okay I’ll get digging, but please understand that my understanding of racism is;

A person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.


No. A black person may just feel he doesn't like white people generally; and vice-versa.

However, a fictional white lawyer may feel superior to black folk because he is as far he knows better educated and cultured, and as for any  other people who are neither white nor male, they could be equal but also the exceptions which prove the rule.

That is the philosophy of scepticism in your thinking that definitions are subjective and the very foundation for  the political-philosophy behind racism. You are a racist because you think like a racist who by no reasonable definition must think one race is superior to another race..

Brother of slain civil rights leader Medgar Evers endorses Trump

428

(172 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

njc wrote:
Dill Carver wrote:
njc wrote:

Think out loud.  The questions represent positions that people have actually taken, and they are forced on us as a society whether we like them or not.  Chew the questions, not the polemicist who forces them on you.  Find an answer that cover them all and that you believe can and should be defended.   If we can't answer them to everyone's satisfaction, the other guy wins--and you might not like what he is going to domwith that win.

The answer I threw out  has rough-edges.  It needs refinement before I can defend it in its whole.

The point is that any that definition you eventually arrive at will never be correct. It might stack up for you as an individual, but it will not unilaterally satisfy mankind as the definitive explanation ...

True of all philosophy.  So ... we should stop asking?

Only "true" in the sophistry of Carver's implicit solipsism - when in reality "any definition" (which is of a word created for a concept) is true to the extent it can be demonstrated to correspond to the nature of things.  http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth-correspondence/

429

(172 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

njc wrote:
vern wrote:

However, I can understand that "not thinking" is definitely the "new cool" among our presidential candidates. They must really be enjoying themselves, lol. Take care. Vern

Oh, Vern, you are guileless and innocent!

The essence of popular politics is feeding voters on their dreams, which you subvert to serve your schemes.  That takes plenty of conniving, and conniving is thinking bent to a specific kind of end--to making people work, and choose, and vote for what you want, not for what they want.  But it would be fatal to your schemes if you ever let the voters really see you thinking ... because it might teach them how to think

But then there's Winston Churchill, in the wilderness on the Soviet threat, then on the Nazi threat, then on the Soviet threat again.  And there's the railroad-lobbyist lawyer Abe Lincoln on the idea that the federal government has the supreme and indissoluble right for taxation in order to transfer massive wealth from the people to the railway companies. I think both were very clear on their thinking to the voter and transparently decisive in their actions toward their goals.

430

(172 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

j p lundstrom wrote:

A respectful pause for the death of a gifted human being.

But come on, folks! She wrote ONE book! And while it was a great book in its day, it reads dated and b-o-r-i-n-g nowadays. I'd wager a guess that it even seems condescending to some people. How insulting in modern times to say that a whole race is unable to solve their problems without the benevolence of one white man!

She said what she had to say, and it struck a note, but that's all she had. There remain plenty of other problems of the human condition that still need tackling, and other talented writers are working on them.

I must say I agree with you while also admitting I never read the book but rather watched the awful movie twice, once as a child and again in adulthood. There is an inverse correlation between  the quality of a novel and  the quality of a film made from it, so I guess the book is probably very well written, but the story/theme today is a mere reminder of the days when "liberalism" was sincere and relevant, but the negro civil rights movement ended in 1965, and having a movement for equal rights turned into a movement for equal stuff, opening healed wounds of unfair treatment of one race against another does nothing but harm to today's reader, politicized to the intolerant left, who is not bored by the dated and largely irrelevant nature of the book. Sinclair Lewis, anyone? Naturalism by way of lying about things.

431

(17 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

njc wrote:

A good workman respects her tools.

Is this a reference to T&A?

432

(17 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

My opinion is that there is something askew with one's language ability if he has not already learnt those "irregular" verbs of his native language, should that be spoken consistently at home, before he has gone to school to learn those rules for "regular" verbs, often of foreign origin.  U.K.-standard "kept," "wept", "learnt", "spelt" are good and ancient English, and the American "regular" -ed forms, whether standard or not, are an informal means to spelling reform but often seem unnatural to the native speaker who will have internalized the good and ancient language of his ancestors before he can have remembered he has done so.

433

(19 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

njc wrote:

You could support that with the 'professionalization' of the performing arts, and the great increase in quality that came with recording.  But then you'd have to flip the coin over and look at the popularity of youTube

I agree with this but believe history has taken it further. The popularization of the arts (mostly music, though high-quality reproductions of paintings is in there, too)  through any recording medium has been a cost-v-benefit calculation  up to the digital age. The CD, at first, was a boon because of the enormous signal-to-noise ratio but has so degraded in qualities of other aspects  to the point of 'just getting the stuff out there;' what the 'stuff' is, no longer matters. I saw this even in the concert-hall going classical music listeners that it became a snobby sort of social event and little about the music. There just is 'stuff' going on in the arts that has so little to do with art.  Fiction is different in there being never an end to story-telling, as such,  as much in being human as language, but there has been and ought to be more to the novel than story-telling.  The newer, efficient media of transportation are stripping out everything but the story.

njc wrote:

The biggest danger to written work might be the creeping illiteracy coming out of the highly 'professionalized' schools of the urban centers, boosted by 'identity' culture that declares study and learning as 'inauthentic'.

In sense, that is what I mean by the stripping out everything but the story telling, and maybe even that, in the course of 'progressive' education  reducing reading to understanding manuals and government regulations and ignoring all that too-complicated, white eurocentric literature useless stuff.

434

(19 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

njc wrote:

We can't make those judgements until time has passed.

The world is changing.  It's been changing since hunter-gatherers settled down to become farmers.  We can encourage people to treasure the old, including old arts and skills.  Maybe they do, maybe the change seems to be really better.

That judgement is for history.  All we can do is try to make it.

I think the problem is that medium has become more important than the message, the reverse of the Gutenburg revolution. Or, maybe it is a tech monster grown from the Gutenburg revolution.  High quality (in form, substance, artistry, production value) in music cannot carry on in ipod/smartphone era, so the stuff becomes all the same mediocre pablum; perhaps ebooks will do the same to fiction -- then people will get over it and move on into something more exciting and leave behind the novel unless the novel fills a special niche in art as it originated in.

435

(19 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

njc wrote:

So long as the reviewer can find something that is clearly weaker than the rest, the good writer will be reassured by how good the weaker parts are--and will continue to improve.  And I don't know if it's a question of taste, or of the ability to appreciate and understand what is being written.

There may be a few for whom English Composition is like music to Mozart, but for most of us it's a skill that will always stand improvement.

One thing you can say of commercial fiction: it brings pleasure to the multitudes who purchase it.

It's passe. In twenty years all "commercial" fictional story-telling will be in a form other than the novel. What might be left, should there be anybody trained to write it, is literary fiction that provides something other than plot, action, dialog, and kid's/YA books should Common Core not take hold. The only reason reading for light fun, versus serious mind-toning, is still around is because the baby-boom generation has not died out. My sampling of young-folk writing is that it is rudimentary movie/TV making of little literary (in the broadest sens) value. If I am wrong in this, someone please point me to a millennial's example of serious mind-toning fiction and not just another story.

436

(19 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

njc wrote:

The group structure does tend to balkanize the site.

I'd say, there's proofreading for "review" and there's reviewing for review and comment. Proofreading, even for those who are good at it, is boring and never pays very well for the time spent in free time or compensated time.  On the other hand, it takes a reviewing professional to review something not at all to one's tastes, so the balkanization comes from few (probably no) people having wide ranging interests in reading material. Certainly, it is a pointless exercise to comment (other than proofreading) on literary fiction as if the purpose is commercial/popular gain, and on vampire-zombie romance as if it were high art.

And, to make my point again on how each may have his own goal in reward, a good writer might have one or two actual writing mistakes in several thousand words, and another will have dozens in the same number of words. The (technically) bad writer will be rewarded with a proofreading review of five corrections in the first paragraph, and presumably get the point that the rest is of similar quality, and the good writer will have no reward at all because he is good.

437

(19 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

vern wrote:

Once upon a time on a site far far away (i.e. the older version of this one) I more than once suggested that all members be required to occasionally review a work with less than the 3 reviews which was semi-implied by joining the site.

Naturally from you a fascist attempt to coerce attention toward a purported worthy goal.

Nothing like, as I suggest, a reasonable proportionality of review length to reviewed work. It's now 0.3 points or 30 points for 5 comments or 50 words, regardless.

The point system, of freedom to choose the rewards one seeks, is despicable to you.

vern wrote:

I politely pointed out


An unlikely event.

vern wrote:

To me, it would be no big deal to be "mandated" to choose


Of course not, being the sort you are - rude, obnoxious, mandating.

438

(36 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Dill Carver wrote:

I guess that 'screaming' is correct

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqWqrmsS-uU

You can detect some of the female sounds of the caterwauling in there, and considering the male cat has barbs on his thingy, it's not hard to understand why.

439

(36 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

njc wrote:

I owe many interesting corners of my vocabulary to writers better educated and more literate than I.  I'm not sure about limiting `caterwauling` to the mating call, but I'm reluctant to assume that a reader doesn't know a word, especially when it is an especially suitable word.

And my point would be if the author uses the word "whistle" for the concept "laugh," and if the poor reader looks up "whistle" he will find a completely different concept than what the author intended in "laugh."  Even worse,  is the subjectivist author who in Clinton-esque fashion defends his incorrect use of "whistle" with the claim: It all depends on what "whistle" is. Your "whistle" might different than mine. .  This is cultural nihilism of the order that severely afflicts Western civilization from time to time and the trickle-down effect into politics and science is never good and usually signals collapse. [Weimar -> Nazi Germany]

"Caterwauling" is a combination of noises surrounding the mating of cats. However, isolating the sounds from males from that of females, the males call out the same sounds as their howling in territorial defense, in a sense that is what they are doing here, but the females' sounds are unique and hard to compare to anything else.  It is fair to call the whole mess of sounds is "caterwauling" and is completely different from the sound of a single cat in distress which the original poster requested.

440

(36 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Bevin Wallace wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:

'Caterwauling' is the wrong choice because it a howling sound from a female cat in heat, and also it is likely a typical (moron) reader won't know that, and you've put another word out there (with the help of a moron publishing editor) that does not mean what it really means.

You're kind of a dick....

Which kind is that?

441

(36 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

d a reynolds wrote:

Lol, Vern. Thanks all. Screeching might work. Caterwauling, which I'd heard of, is actually the correct term, however I asked five people and they'd never heard of it.

'Caterwauling' is the wrong choice because it a howling sound from a female cat in heat, and also it is likely a typical (moron) reader won't know that, and you've put another word out there (with the help of a moron publishing editor) that does not mean what it really means.

442

(36 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

njc wrote:

I think the terms are 'caterwauling' and Katzenjammer.

I think that is 'howling' but has a different sound related to their mating ritual (from the female involved) rather than the howling that comes from territorial defense.

443

(36 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

KHippolite wrote:

A cat in a bag being swung around isn't howling... it's yelping (fright) or snarling, spitting, and hissing (anger)

I'd still say 'screech' or 'scream' although I have never heard the sound of a cat being tortured so I can't relate.  I doubt it would be the howling I spoke of.  I say no to 'hissing' and 'spitting'

444

(36 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

d a reynolds wrote:

How would you write about a cats terrified scream. Can I use the word, "scream?" Is it gnarl whine or a screech?

by "scream" do you mean a short, sharp sound because its tail has been stepped on? "scream" or "screech" is good. Certainly not "gnarl" or "whine"
or do you mean that long, plaintive sound in the night? "howl" is good even if usually meant for dogs and applies for different reasons than for dogs. Someone who has heard the sound of a cat howling, knows exactly what it is, if not always what it means. It is a groan but has a sound from anger rather than a sound from pain.

445

(48 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Norm d'Plume wrote:

This is a big deal! Everything we've ever said in any thread on this site is being laid bare for the whole Internet to see. Fat chance ever getting a book publishing deal if every uncensored moment about our writing and participation in these groups is visible to the whole world, including book spoilers and casual messgaes in any of the forums we've used to date.

Book publishers won't touch us because of the potential PR disaster of even one of our comments being taken out of context.

What evidence do you have that this is true? Or if this is  true, any presence on the internet will lead to comments taken out of context.

446

(0 replies, posted in Writing Tips & Site Help)

See: http://www.dailywritingtips.com/how-to- … point-arc/

How to Structure A Story: The Eight-Point Arc
By Ali Hale

1.    Stasis – The “everyday life” in which the story is set.
2.    Trigger – Something beyond the control of the protagonist.
3.    The quest — The trigger results in a quest.
4.    Surprise – Pleasant events, but more often means obstacles, complications, conflict and trouble for the protagonist.
5.    Critical Choice — A decision by the character to take a particular path – not just something that happens by chance.
6.    Climax – The highest peak of tension in story.
7.    Reversal – The reversal should be the consequence of the critical choice and the climax
8.    Resolution –  Return to a fresh stasis.

I give my example here. The Rape of Cassandra

  http://www.thenextbigwriter.com/posting … ndra-22216

which is an example that is stripped down of description and “characterization” and other frills that make interesting reading, but any such story that exists with all the frills and a “plot” -- he said, she said, this happened, and that happend -- and no story arc is in kind to hack-writing for episodic TV and pornography.

The Rape of Cassandra set in the context of a larger work provides a subplot intended to give characterization to Cassandra and Marco and makes a point on its own but without being distracting by being long and meandering off the main plot.

Some novels spin around in too long a Stasis point or have no sensible balance between advancing a plot, characterization, and back-story, all of which can been within that first stage. Worse than that, are the novels that have nothing with which to begin other than out-context dialog and action, no Stasis stage at all.

I also would like to add that there are not always discrete separations between 2,3, 4, and 5 and are blended to some extent. In the Rape of Cassandra I believe I have discrete stages except 4 and 5.

447

(26 replies, posted in Writing Tips & Site Help)

Norm d'Plume wrote:

Based on the discussion, I need to reduce my use of -ing. As Janet Reid has said, I think there's a place for them. Variety, spice of life, etc.

*gets ready to duck*

Thanks to all.
Dirk

In a sense, and with irony, I believe I am the one arguing for the tastes of the commoner, for minimizing -ing words is one of those test-marketed issues of style a reader might not be able to identify as better than otherwise, but once a sentence is fixed, that reader picks the fixed version.  I am perplexed that not a single TNBW author to whom I have broached the topic, and in particular the sub-issue of the ugly dangling participial phrase, has reacted positively, and I believe I had one review deleted, and I was blocked, though certainly I can pause to consider that it might have been my manner of broaching the subject, but, as I said, I thought it would have been a common enough style issue to be more widely accepted on TNBW and authors not so easily offended.

448

(26 replies, posted in Writing Tips & Site Help)

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:
Norm d'Plume wrote:

One of my reviewers has recommended that I avoid verb forms that end with -ing and write the sentence using -ed verb endings.

Here is an example with -ing verbs:

    As each remaining ship’s shields failed, it dove down at the palace at maximum thrust, plowing into the superstructure,
    and setting off enormous fireballs that shook the bunker.

Here it is with -ed:

    As each remaining ship’s shields failed, it dove down at the palace at maximum thrust, plowed into the superstructure,
    and set off enormous fireballs that shook the bunker.

Verb police, please weigh in.

In this example, the second. End of conversation.

I hear "April" speaking.

449

(26 replies, posted in Writing Tips & Site Help)

janet reid wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:
janet reid wrote:

Just before you start throwing insults at me, just get my sloppy and lousy writing down correctly! I am guilty as charged, I'm lazy. But you know that already! wink

This is what I'd rather have with the complete set of changes I would've made:

As each remaining shield failed, the ship dove down at the palace at maximum thrust. It plowed into the superstructure, setting off enormous fireballs that shook the bunker.

This is somewhat different to what you had, and can still be wrong, lazy, and sloppy, but is more what I meant at least.

Yes, that does clarify but does not make your logic any better. How exactly is , setting better than and set?  It does not create the progressive action you say it does inasmuch as and set is third in a list of four events sequentially happening.  That is a functional purpose of simple past tense and word order. This happened, and that happened, then the other thing happened. always denotes a progression of events.

I'll give you that much, this isn't the best example to show what I'm trying to say. But always saying this happened, and then this happened, and happened, and happened to denote a series or progression of events will get boring very quickly and there are instances where 'happening' will work better. But that's just me.

Still friends? ;-)

More than two "happenings" in a paragraph is pushing reader tolerance -- of this reader's tolerance, at least.  However, a rapid succession of events as in Dirk's sample has an internal logic most people get -- if done once in a paragraph.  Describing action in words will never compare with the visual arts for action/adventure, but some authors do well enough, but those same authors, drawing heavily on plot development for the novel's raison d'etre , do not do so well in theme development and other elements of literary fiction and the narration necessary for that.  There's a reason Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Homes is the most filmed character.

I don't understand the resistance to dropping -ing words on TNBW, especially that sloppy dangling [comma] participial phrase. It's use, like the passive tense, marks a major difference between fiction and nonfiction of the technical, bureaucratic, and essayist-journalist sort. I have four -ing words in the above paragraph, for example.

450

(26 replies, posted in Writing Tips & Site Help)

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:
janet reid wrote:

Just before you start throwing insults at me, just get my sloppy and lousy writing down correctly! I am guilty as charged, I'm lazy. But you know that already! wink

This is what I'd rather have with the complete set of changes I would've made:

As each remaining shield failed, the ship dove down at the palace at maximum thrust. It plowed into the superstructure, setting off enormous fireballs that shook the bunker.

This is somewhat different to what you had, and can still be wrong, lazy, and sloppy, but is more what I meant at least.

Yes, that does clarify but does not make your logic any better. How exactly is , setting better than and set?  It does not create the progressive action you say it does inasmuch as and set is third in a list of four events sequentially happening.  That is a functional purpose of simple past tense and word order. This happened, and that happened, then the other thing happened. always denotes a progression of events.

Setting, shows a continuous action. Set, if the fourth action in a series, NEEDS the , and set.

Yes, isn't that what I said?  But I said more: delete all unnecessary participles (like , setting) and replace them with active verbs ( , and set).