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Fair enough, Sol. May the Force be with you.

In general, I like this idea. Much better than people having to guess about an additional feedback thread, especially given the number of places where that thread could now exist (Additional Feedback group, Old Forums, Sci-fi group, etc.). If you post your work to multiple groups, as I believe most do, then there would be only one thread, not one per group.

However, such a capability would need to be able to associate the same thread with multiple chapters, otherwise there would be one per chapter, which would turn the group forums into a mess. Even one thread per work would probably be overload eventually. Everyone might create such a thread just in case and have it never get used. Then you have forums full of orphaned threads.

Another problem that would have to be addressed is what to do if an author has chosen not to create an additional feedback thread, but a reviewer wants to leave additional feedback. Then you get back to the current problem of not knowing where to put the thread and hoping the author sees it. If you allow reviewers to create that thread if there isn't already one, then you have to have to support notification to the author and, potentially, others about the newly created discussion.

On the other hand, using the existing chapter review mechanism as a means for discussion about a given chapter (as I think Sol is suggesting) also seems like a very logical thing to do, but it hides discussions from general visibility. If someone starts a discussion within a chapter that I've previously reviewed, how would I know about it unless I go back and check? There would need to be a way for the reviewer to subscribe to chapters in order to be notified about ongoing discussions about those chapters. Also, how would others who are not reading the book potentially participate in discussions if they have to search the bottom of each chapter for activity.

And, just to make everyone nuts, if there is a discussion going on inside an inline review, the only people who would know about it are the participants in the discussion. I don't read other's reviews in detail, clicking on each inline comment, so I'll never know about the discussion. Right now, even the author doesn't know if a third party is commenting inside an inline review left by someone else, although I presume that part will be addressed.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the only ideal way to handle discussions would be to have a mechanism to browse/search/participate in discussions at the chapter level, work level, group level, or global level. That requires a very different architecture and a lot of work.

Dirk

Dunecan, you're generaly correct, with a few caveats.

If you edit over an existing chapter, then you don't need extra points to do so. Simply editing, however, will not cause your chapter to reappear at the top of the list of works displayed on the home page. It also won't notify your connections that changes were made. I usually use this approach when I'm just trying to incorporate my latest changes before *new* readers see my chapters. Reviewers who've already read the chapter won't receive points for reviewing it again, in spite of the new edits.

If, however, if you want everyone to be notified of the changes, then you need to re-publish using points. Simply specify the same chapter number as the old one, but increment the version number. You may not want to delete the old version of that chapter, since it includes all of the reviews you've already received. If you delete the old chapter, then the old reviews go with it. Instead, you can either leave the old version visible (if you want reviewers to see and compare both the old and new versions), or make it inactive, so that it is no longer visible to reviewers, but is still available for you to refer back to it. All reviewers will receive points for reading the new version.

I believe all of the above also applies to short stories, poems, etc.

Hope that helps.
Dirk

Welcome, Rosie.

Sarcasm is prohibited for everyone except KHippolite. This is a thread for wishlist requests, hence the topics of discussion. Sometimes we're just trying to understand how the new site works and is intended to be used.

Dirk

1. Another wish list item (drooling on this one) would be to have a bottom button at the top of each forum page, and a top button at the bottom of each such page. That would allow us to easily click to get to a page (e.g., I clicked 4 to go to the last page of Wishlist Cont.), and then one more click to go to the opposite end of the page. I suggest putting the buttons immediately to the right of the page numbers. That way, you simply click on a page and, with the slightest mouse movement, can skip to the top/bottom. This would be really handy for those of us with joints as old as dirt. Ideally, you could add similarly named buttons on the posting view page to do the same thing, and anywhere else where pages grow long with time.

2. On a related note, I'll restate my wish for a button at the top of the posting view page to dive directly into a regular review as you can with an inline review, without having to first scroll to the end of the chapter. I rarely use regular reviews anymore, but I know many still do. I think it would be a very nice shortcut and would address at least one of the click/scrolling complaints you're getting.

3. And as long as I'm redesigning your posting view (grin), we also need a button at the top to jump directly over a chapter to the beginning of that chapter's reviews. I've noticed that many of my reviewers like to read the reviews of others before diving in. I do it too.

I'm sure you have screen real-estate issues, especially with tablets and phones to support. You could accomplish 2 and 3 combined if you change the Leave Inline Review button to Goto Reviews. Have the Goto Reviews button take me to the start of the reviews just below the chapter, where you then already have two side-by-side buttons to leave Regular vs Inline reviews. I think it would streamline the posting view a lot and add a touch of extra simplicity for new users trying to find their way around. Admittedly, you may hear some initial grumbles if you change Leave Inline Reviews to Goto Reviews, requiring an extra mouse mouvement and click to get to those much loved inlines.

Thanks as always.
Dirk

Linda, I don't understand the above about item 5. Why not simply increment the version number on the chapter in question, within the same project? You can then either hide the old version(s) of the same chapter, or leave several of them up for others to compare them, assuming they want to read the old and the new content. I assume the versioning capability applies to short stories, poems, etc. although I haven't tried that.

I must be missing something.

Thanks.
Dirk

Sol, I think most of us agree that the best place for a discussion about a work is with the work itself, although some people used to gain exposure to other people's work by first encountering it in the Additional Feedback forum on the old site.

That said, are you suggesting we use a series of regular or inline feedback reviews to have a discussion? I suppose reviews could be used for that (the complete set of reviews appears right after the chapter), although that workflow right now would involve an awful lot of clicking and scrolling. And how would we be notified if someone has added another review to someone else's work? Are the coming enhancements going to address all of that?

Or am I not understanding you correctly?

Thanks.
Dirk

I'm the opposite of PByrd. I need to drown out other noises because they distract me, so I put on headphones and listen to Celine Dion blast out my favorite tunes. For those who've never heard her sing O Holy Night, I couldn't recommend it more highly. I keep expecting my computer monitor to explode when she hits those high notes.

I placed a copy of this post in Writing Tips & Advice for future reference. It's less likely to get lost than among all the Premium posts.

Dirk

Sol, I think it would a great additional offering, as long as people know it's available (needs a little promotion now and then to remind us) and doesn't cost too much. I would definitely use it, although there are now several self-help options described above.

dagnee, you're not being dense. Either that, or I'm dense too. :-)

Everybody is trying to figure out the best way to handle post-review feedback now that there are so many groups. I currently post chapters to Premium, Basic, and Science Fiction. My reviewers and I have been using the sci-fi group for additional feedback on my work. Just in case, though, I'm also a member of the existing Additional Feedback group and the Old Forums group. Both of those groups get virtually no traffic.

Dirk

One of the writers I review created a group specifically for his own book. Since I read a lot of books, I wouldn't be able to join them all. We used to use the Additional Feedback forum, which I guess is now obsolete. I'm still a member of the Additional Feedback group here on the new site, not to mention the Old Forums group, which also has a Writing Feedback thread.

Kenny has it right. A forum attached to each story seems ideal. Not sure what the technical hurdles would be, especially since we now have group forums and, if memory serves, some resurrected version of the old site's style of forums coming in the future. The complexity is growing, especially if you're new to the site.

Dirk