I tend to just say "he said" or "she told him" when I'm relaying a story verbally, because the important part of the story is what was said, not finding a verb to express how the said was said. I might say "he balled" rather than "he said while balling." The prior might be more succinct or a better punch line. I can't imagine I'd ever say "he proclaimed" unless I was standing around in the 1600s reading a decree. My advice is to imagine someone is sitting there listening to you as you tell your story. If they raise a brow when you said "he acquiesced" and say "REALLY, DEAR WRITER? HE ACQUIESCED?" that part probably doesn't work. If it works, it just might be your voice. Experiment!

I think "fashion" or "expectation" is a better way to look at the current writing conventions than "rules." The literary fashion back in the 1800s (in England, at least, which is what I've read, hello Victorian novels) was a long, sprawling opening before the action begins. The fashion now seems to be (with a nod to Gacela's point about cinema) something more sudden and visual.

I think when a publisher lists things like "make all your dialogue tags the same," they are listing a rule for their company based on what is fashionable or conventional -- meaning what they've found will sell. They are thinking monetarily (fairly enough), while I believe, for the most part, we writers are thinking more creatively. The word "rule" will throw off any independent thinker. "Writing rule" implies there is a certain law about writing that one must master, no questions asked, if one is to succeed. Immediately the independent thinker wants to know where the rule came from, and why.  Not necessarily to break the rule -- but to understand it.

There ARE rules (accepted conventions) within language (depending on what one is communicating -- example a legal document, we must try to understand one another), but ART questions the rules and challenges the fashion and transforms thinking.

A publisher's rules are not writing rules. They're that publisher's set of guidelines, likely based on what they have found sells well.

Literature has no definitive rules. If it did, James Joyce would have self-combusted, and English-speakers would still be saying "thou" rather than "you" in long epic poetry written on scrolls. Literature is no more a rule than music, & yet one can break music into its notes and find structure, & that structure describes the music's essence. When people put out "rules," they're trying to describe this essence within successful literature. They're saying, "Look, I can't stand a story peppered with lots of ridiculous dialogue tags that distract me from the story. Successful books tend to have dialogue with substance. Clever dialogue tags aren't necessary when you have good dialogue with substance. Dialogue tags beyond said are a red flag that the story lacks substance. The cure isn't to bandage the bad writing with a thesaurus full of dialogue tags: it's to make a better story." But instead of explaining this dissection process, they do the human thing: they make a decree and announce that all books with clunky dialogue tags have it wrong. And that is translated into a "writing rule" and passed through the grapevine. THINK IT THROUGH. 

"Said" tends to hide itself within a manuscript because of the monotony of repetition. So when you use a different tag for emphasis within the same manuscript, that moment will stand out because you're breaking the established pattern. New writers tend to think using a creative dialogue tag for the sake of the word itself makes a manuscript original. My advice would be to think about each occasion when you change it up and ask yourself what the change accomplishes. Not because "YOU MUST USE SAID AND ONLY SAID" is a legitimate rule, but because it's an expectation. You can play with expectation. If it's worth it, change it. You should always be thinking as you write -- always asking what this or that technique might do for the reader. The reader (in America at least) expects "said." Does challenging that expectation do anything for the story?

I had a professor last year who insisted every case of the verb "to be" must be (ha!) deleted from essays submitted to him on pain of red pen. He lectured us about "to be" almost every day. One day he brought it up again and said, "I know you're all tired of me harping on 'to be.' I was recently told by a student that I should relax about it. It's a real verb, and it's silly to outlaw it from papers altogether. To that I say, 'Yes, it is a real verb. I don't like it. I don't like that students rely upon it rather than exercising their brains enough to think of a more active verb. I want you to think. I am grading your paper. Whether you like it or not, I'm going to mark your paper with my red pen if I see any form of "to be" anywhere in your paper. Even if your paper is otherwise brilliant.'"

If Moonshine Cove Publishing doesn't like dialogue tags beyond "said," it's probably good form not to submit a manuscript filled with dialogue tags beyond "said" to Moonshine Cove Publishing.

Dill Carver wrote:

A Legacy of Spies. by John le Carré.

A new novel; from the past. My favourite author reaffirmed.

Hi! smile I'm glad he's got another out for you! I bet it would be amazing to meet him and ask for a signature for your collection.

I've been a little scattered lately: dipping in & out of books. I can't quite settle. This morning I grabbed a copy of John Brown's Body by Stephen Vincent Benét to read on my lunch break. I started it a while ago & set it aside for the right time. I think that time is here! The air is chilled and the leaves are aflame, & that seems to be Benét time.

I find it absolutely GORGEOUS. SO MANY good passages. I'll have to capture a couple here when I complete the book. It's my own copy so I am ravenously writing all over it, circling the best parts & jotting my remarks in the margins. I think it might end up my favorite read of the year.

I may have to set it aside this week to read a couple titles for work. It will keep! x

Yes! You're welcome! big_smile

This one's for you, Dill. I don't know if I can share the actual images as they don't appear to be in the public domain. But I know you love photography. I thought you might like the ACW Pinhole Project if you've never seen it?

Also, there are some really vivid ACW paintings by N.C. Wyeth online. I wish I could post some here, but I can't tell if they're copyrighted.

Dill Carver wrote:

Halloween: not as frightening as it used to be?

Those look like a spooky take on The Wizard of Oz! With some Shakespeare thrown in. (The ass. PS: Margaret Mitchell played Bottom in a school play. She also played Old Gobbo in The Merchant of Venice & apparently stole the show. And the title role (I think) in Julius Caesar. The more you know.) big_smile

Dill Carver wrote:

In my Amazon basket now. Thanks for the steer! Appreciated!

https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1333577814l/8796854.jpg

You're welcome! It's on the way for me too -- library copy! My library stack is through the roof. tongue

Dill Carver wrote:

http://www.culture24.org.uk/asset_arena/5/37/83/538735/v0_master.jpg

What a beautiful girl. I looked her up. Her mother's story is INTERESTING! I'd never heard of Violette Szab! Thank you for sharing!

Sherry V. Ostroff wrote:

I'm reading the first in the series of The Lymond Chronicles. This is my second try with this book. I've heard great things about the series. Even better than Outlander, so I'm told. Reviews from major news sources are glowing. I love the genre - historical fiction, set in 16th century Scotland, a handsome hero. What's not to like. Fingers crossed.

Oooh, I hadn't heard of these books. No Outlander spoilers, please. smile smile My sister is after me to read the whole series. I haven't made time yet! 

Thanks for the tip on The Lymond Chronicles. Have you tried Susanna Kearsley? I'm reading The Rose Garden by her. You might enjoy it. I think it's also been compared to Outlander. I always skim the comparisons so I won't hit a spoiler, ha!

Dill Carver wrote:

I've just picked up;
No Place for Ladies: The Untold Story of Women in the Crimean War by Helen Rappaport.

smile smile Added to my list!

I've just finished Ruth's Journey: The Authorized Novel of Mammy from Margaret Mitchell's Gone with the Wind.

I'm beginning The Autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman by Ernest J. Gaines.

& my library copy of State of Jones by Sally Jenkins just came in! Thanks for that suggestion!

Here's one from an area of the American Civil War that I've been drawn to and am researching. Brits who fought in the conflict.

WOW! What a fascinating angle on the ACW! I had no idea! "The first major battle of the war, the Battle of Bull Run, in July 1861, had regiments on both sides that were made up almost entirely of British volunteers."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … l-war.html

What a fascinating angle on the war! I've read a tiny bit on the British response to the ACW on a large scale -- whether they would support the North or South, & why. Nothing about the individual involvement in the fighting. Thank you for sharing! You should write a novel from the POV of a British soldier in the conflict... 

http://www.historytoday.com/sites/default/files/civilwar_main.jpg

I love the expressions of the two soldiers in the middle. The one on our left -- incredulous. The one on our right thoughtful. A whole story could be written about that man.

This book has been on my TBR for a while. I will have to read it sooner rather than later!

https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1333577814l/8796854.jpg

Dill Carver wrote:

She was a Zouave Vivandieres... they had Zouave regiments on both sides of the conflict. I'd assumed deep south French speaking swamp people... but I've been caught up in the stereotype!

I didn't know there were Zouaves on both sides! I had the same misconception as you, Dill, probably because of GWTW:

"If it's Zouave, I'm damned if I'll go in the troop. I'd feel like a sissy in those baggy red pants. They look like ladies' red flannel drawers to me." smile

I also assumed she was Zouave at first, but then I found images of other ladies in uniform posing in skirts online, and figured it must have simply been tradition to put the female in a skirt. The images I found all seem to be Vivandière, however. I just found this great article on the Vivandière costume. And here's one on the history of the Vivandière.

I wonder if these women would have called themselves "Vivandière" -- or "soldier." I looked it up and it means she was a female follower of the actual troop -- entertained it and gave it water, nursed it, etc. I assume she loved the label.

Memphis Trace wrote:

Here's a great bio of Kady: https://www.civilwarwomenblog.com/kady-brownell/

"Kady kept the colors she had so proudly carried and her sword, and she was the only woman to ever receive discharge papers from the Union army." Love that. Thanks for the link! Memphis. smile

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nSKmDvndIxU/UXqiVkWktAI/AAAAAAAADqU/CiTsUU2m_vo/s1600/cantiniere+2.jpg
Crimean War era  (French) Cantinière. Brown University.

Dill Carver wrote:

What am I reading right now?



Following a recommendation;  Louisa May Alcott’s first draft of Little Women

I know that you're proud of me. smile

I WAS SO EXCITED FOR TWO SECONDS!!!!

I'm reading Ruth's Journey by Donald McCaig.

It's about a vampire who eats people who won't read Little Women.

Look at the stern look in her eye -- alongside the earrings! The hand grips the rifle and wears a wedding band. Her uniform looks like the women's rights bloomers. That paired with the soldier's cap is an interesting effect. Her face could be from today.

(You can still get me to earnestly spill my soul only to find out you were joking! Jackass!) lol x

Dill Carver wrote:

I was totally kidding when I mentioned talking to your mother.

I was kidding as well. About everything I have ever said. smile

I do find the ACW very interesting. Aside from the accounts of the war I especially love the sepia Daguerreotype, Tintypes, and Ambrotype images. The first historical event to be photographed. I can while away hours looking deep into those faces and the backgrounds. Truly fascinating. I often recognise features within those characters which resemble people I know today... like we are all related somehow.

Me too! That's actually my favorite part! And it's the reason I so love going to museums and battlefields. I love the feeling that I am walking where they once stood.

Anyway, I've just started to watch Ken Burns documentary series upon the Vietnam War...  Only 5 mins in, but I have great expectations. x

Master filmmaker.

Dill Carver wrote:
corra wrote:

{You should write an ACW novel...}

Once I've done the complete ACW trail battlefield tour and spoken to your mom.

I'd shy from the writing but I'd love to do the research.

By the way, I hope I didn't imply above that Mom wouldn't welcome a conversation with you. Only that she'd shy from being seen as an expert.  I may have left you with the impression at some point that she is the fount of all ACW knowledge because for me she is. She inspired me to learn about it because it excites her. We share a passion for it, and I owe that to her. But she strongly protests the idea that she knows much. She wants to know much. I'd say we three share that. x

I think you're extremely knowledgeable on the ACW, Dill. I seem to be hobbling along at a snail's pace, gathering bits as I chaotically research between other books, homework, work, Margaret Mitchell research (my true calling, for whatever it is worth!), and writing. Maybe we all know more on the ACW than we realize. I feel that I know a basic bit -- certainly more than the summaries in text books, but no where near enough to be called an expert.

Mom is especially interested in the Lincoln administration and Lincoln's life. My interest pulls to the South and the female experience there (including Mary Todd Lincoln). Today I researched a bit on the mountaineers of East Tennessee -- the war in the Smokies. But I couldn't tell you about the larger story of battle movements or political conversation, beyond the bits I've gathered in books of the period, like Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass and Grant's Personal Memoirs. I'm a work in progress! It is a topic that enthralls me, and I assume I will eventually be a bit of an expert. smile

I have an acquaintance here in Georgia who is an actual expert. If you ever truly want to touch base on something? He's the guy to ask. He is a walking ACW encyclopedia. He actually did research for Shelby Foote! (The guy in the Ken Burns documentary on the ACW.)

Anyway, here is a big hug of love and good will and combined knowledge & lack of knowledge and growing ACW files. x

Charles Frazier is coming out with another novel in Spring 2018: a story about the wife of Jefferson Davis. I'm looking forward to it!

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36269436-varina

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Well, I'm still thinking on this topic, even if it has quietly fainted.

The initial question was how to get the reader from paragraph to paragraph. The answer above seems to be "story stakes & conflict." I said it. We all said it. While falling over ourselves to remark on Sherry's use of the word "paused" and why it didn't work in our collected view.

Sherry V. Ostroff wrote:

... what does the writer do to more a story forward?...  I mean the little things to get a reader to move from one paragraph to the next and to turn a page.  Is it a certain word you add that creates questions (or bubbles of tension)  that the reader wants answered?

j p lundstrom wrote:

I think you will find most successful authors claim the conflict and the stakes are the heart of a story.

j p lundstrom wrote:

That being said, there is no one who says that word choice is unimportant.

But there is someone who says it is important. As in, the most important thing. (ME!) Word choice doesn't stand behind stakes and conflict in a novel. Word choice is the only way we can create stakes and conflict. It is our one tool as writers. The rest is the product of how we choose to use words.

I find the catch-all mantra "the heart of the story is stakes & conflict" a flat bit of writing advice that could easily be poorly executed, now that I'm thinking about it. That's like saying what makes a good nation is "good people." What does that mean? I'm thinking it is a tad more involved than that. "Stakes and conflict" don't appear out of thin air. They have to be crafted.

Now WHAT might we use to craft stakes & conflict (and tension)? Cotton balls? Bits of tissue paper? Hm... I know! WORDS. smile

Words are the fundamental element of story-telling. If I was going to make a story recipe, I would toss three things in my bowl:  pages, ink, and words. From that I might bake some conflict.

Films rely on stakes and conflict, yes? Which are translated to the viewer through excellent camera shots, a good soundtrack, the right actors, tricks with color (Schindler's List), close-ups contrasted against wide panoramic scenes punctuated by the film's main soundtrack. It's in those juxtapositions & artistic decisions that the tale is delivered -- the tension is amplified by such choices.

Well, what I'm saying above is, we have to do everything a film accomplishes (and more!) -- the visuals, the camera angles, the details, the acting, the close-ups, the speaker's volume -- through the words we choose, the punctuation we apply,  and the way we choose to focus the reader's attention with both. We don't get to create tension with music. We create music with the single and solitary tool we have: written language.

We get readers to the next paragraph by using words WELL. And sure, part of what we want words to do is to convey a sense of tension (or time passing, or any of the varied human emotions that can universalize the reading experience.) I agree on that. Without a good story, we have lots of words that potentially say nothing at all pretty well. But the question is "how do we get readers to the next paragraph?" Finesse with words. Knowing the craft.

Two authors writing the same story with the same stakes will write two completely different novels. That's the voice. That's the art.

Charles Frazier. Ian McEwan. George Saunders (please read Lincoln on the Bardo and tell me that man doesn't have a distinct style). J.R.R. Tolkien. Colson Whitehead.  Jodi Picoult. Jane Austen. Alison Weir. Edith Wharton. Ernest Hemingway.

J.P.
Sherry.
Vern.
Corra.

Different voices. Why? Because we took those tools and used them differently. One would hope.

J.P., you say most successful writers would say conflict and stakes are at the heart of the story, but would these same writers say anyone could have written their novels -- or would they protest that their indelible fingerprint is on the pages? Why? What is their fingerprint? Is it the stakes?

Do we read to the next paragraph because we must know the answer to the scene's dramatic question -- or because we trust the author to write the answer to that question in a satisfying way? It isn't the question that gets us, really. It's the belief that by plowing through this paragraph, and this one, and this one, we will be delighted on our way to an answer we trust will inevitably please us, or convince us, or surprise us, or move us. Are we going to trust an author to take us there if the author fumbles through words, focuses everywhere but where it matters, relies on gimmicky alliteration and a large, fumbling vocabulary to convey mood, and writes in generalizations? Are we willing to go to the next paragraph if the one that preceded it proves the author's worth, even if and especially if the author uses sprawling sentences in the middle of a tense scene?

I won't demure with a "but what do I know?" because I do know. smile What gets me to the next paragraph is a belief that the author is in complete control. After that, depending on the genre, absolutely, stakes and tension keep me going. But the heart of it is the author's ability to control her craft. I don't believe the stakes if I don't believe the author. The tension isn't effective if it reaches me through a gasp. I have to believe it's real. I have to trust the authenticity of whatever the author is saying, even if that author is telling me there is such a thing as a little tiny half-person with big feet named a hobbit. I have to so trust the author's voice I don't question this. That happens through words. That is the heart. And if we as writers don't know this fundamental truth about writing, we need to spend a lot more time closely reading. 

I don't think you can separate a novel's words from its stakes and conflict and say one is "not something anyone has said is unimportant" and the other is "the heart of story-telling." The words give birth to everything else. 

Pardon me. I shall be off now to dust the hedges and think fancily about the word grumbit.

Dill Carver wrote:

According to that picture she'd have more trouble passing herself off as a woman.

Ha! big_smile

Dill Carver wrote:

These people should be immortalised within book or film. They certainly earned it. Much more so than Ant-Man.

Absolutely!!

Speaking of true history!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malinda_Blalock
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Sampson

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Sherry V. Ostroff wrote:

You can do this by using words that raise the stakes: paused, cautious, abruptly, urgently, threatened, froze, waited, defended, hid, fled.  If I write, "Jane ran down the street." Ho-hum - Yawn. But if I write "Jane fled down the street." now you're wondering why, who's after her, did she rob a bank, etc.

Great points here, Sherry, about how word choice can raise questions. I guess I'd caution you to not rely so much on the effect of a word ("abruptly"), that you fall into the habit of substituting a descriptive word rather than playing out a live scene and demonstrating the word. This is the same point I tried to make above about typing "paused" rather than creating a pause. I may be way off, however. Just adding a perspective. I realize the brevity of a single, perfect word might be just right for a scene.

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j.p. lundstrom wrote:

I used to tell my students, "If you don't know that word well enough to use it in fifty different sentences, don't use it in your writing."

Extremely good advice, and exactly my point. KNOW your tools, so you can use them precisely.

j.p. lundstrom wrote:

In other words, fancy word choice does not equal a good story.

My exact argument.

j.p. lundstrom wrote:

Just read Mark Twain.

Twain is a great example: an author with a distinct style. He knows how to use words with precision. He delivers the whole flavor of an era, region, and class through his words. You read on because you believe in the world he crafts for you. You can hear it. Certainly you care about the plot as well, but can you imagine Twain stripped to a functionally invisible lexicon? What a loss that would be.

I think style is especially important for literary fiction. For genre fiction, you want the style to pretty much stand in the background, I think? Bring the plot, characters, and tension to the front, and let the stakes pull the reader? I see advice all over to hide the writing in genre fiction. If you don't know how to do that, you can keep the reader from moving to the next paragraph by standing too much in the way.

It sounds like you're saying, "Sure, we know about the importance of word choice, but that isn't the driver that gets the reader to the next paragraph." I'm not sure I agree, but I lack the experience at this point to say why. I would say that the wrong word can STOP a reader, point her far off track, and turn a simple scene into an exhausting, vertiginous experience. And what defines a wrong word depends on the story, its genre, and the style and voice the author has established.

I took Tolstoy's perfectly sensible scene and muddied it up with distracting words and punctuation. My point is that nothing changed in his scene, except the delivery. I would never read Choice #2 in my sample, however great the stakes.

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Best part of this thread? People recoiling and cringing over Sherry's use of "paused" above. I noticed it. Vern noticed it. J.P. noticed it, and Janet. Yet within this same thread I see people (myself included) suggesting that really what keeps people reading are the story's stakes. What are we hung up on within this very thread, gentlemen? THE MECHANICS.

Sherry V. Ostroff wrote:

I am a member of another online writing group. I was involved in a discussion about what makes you like  a book and want to read more.  Or in another words, what does the writer do to more a story forward?

This is something I have been thinking a lot lately when analyzing my own writing and when critiquing yours.  I don't mean an earth-shattering event like an alien about to gobble up the earth. Which, by the way, always leaves me disappointed because what do you do for an encore?  I mean the little things to get a reader to move from one paragraph to the next and to turn a page.  Is it a certain word you add that creates questions (or bubbles of tension)  that the reader wants answered?

j p lundstrom wrote:

And getting the reader involved in the story isn't a question of the mechanics (grammar, word choice, POV, etc.) of writing. It IS the art of storytelling--the stakes, the unanswered questions, the goals, and all of those unmeasurable qualities that make a reader want to know how it all turns out in the end...

I've been thinking over this question more in the last few days. I'm really glad Sherry brought it up, because I think it's a really relevant question. We so often think about story-telling on the grand level -- theme, stakes, plot. But what about the effect of the little decisions, sentence by sentence?  Word choice, punctuation. I know we all think about them, but do we think about how they can inspire a reader to keep reading? As much, and I would argue, potentially MORE than high stakes? It's hard to answer "what do you do at the micro-level to keep readers reading?" because that depends on the story. But attention to detail -- to the affect of every word choice, every moment of punctuation? Certainly it can drain a reader as much as it might tickle her interest.

Which of these is most likely to inspire you to stop reading?

Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Everything was in confusion in the Oblonskys’ house. The wife had discovered that the husband was carrying on an intrigue with a French girl, who had been a governess in their family, and she had announced to her husband that she could not go on living in the same house with him. This position of affairs had now lasted three days, and not only the husband and wife themselves, but all the members of their family and household, were painfully conscious of it. Every person in the house felt that there was no sense in their living together, and that the stray people brought together by chance in any inn had more in common with one another than they, the members of the family and household of the Oblonskys. The wife did not leave her own room, the husband had not been at home for three days. The children ran wild all over the house; the English governess quarreled with the housekeeper, and wrote to a friend asking her to look out for a new situation for her; the man-cook had walked off the day before just at dinner time; the kitchen-maid, and the coachman had given warning.

- Anna Karenina, Leo Tolstoy, translated by Constance Garnett.

versus -

Happy families mirror one another most distinctly; every unhappy family identifies itself as unhappy in its own distinct way!

The Oblonskys’ house was positively drenched in confusion! The wife found herself besotted when she unearthed the untidy and extremely discomfiting truth that her betrothed had been fornicating with a French child who had once had the care and concern of their shared biological offspring in her trust! Well, she would have no more! She vociferously denoted her husband as no longer welcome in the house. This had gone on for three everlastingly stressful days, packed with heartbreak and stress of epic proportions, and now everyone in every nook and cranny of the house, even down to the scullery maid, was anxious to the brink! Every single solitary one of them decided the wife and husband ought to definitely separate good and for all, for the good of peace! They surmised that even dull people in inns who had nothing whatsoever in common had more in common than those Oblonskys! Mrs. Oblonsky hoarded away in her room, and Mr. Oblonsky was absentee for a whole half a week! Their biological offspring ran stark-wild in every nook and cranny of the house constantly and for a whole three days! The governess of English descent fought and bickered vociferously and with force with the housekeeper, and drawing out a pen and paper most haughtily, she sought another position with her inquiring pen. The man-cook walked out the door angrily on the third day just after the family consumed platefuls of little shapes mounted with steam upon which they scooped with their spoons, and announced himself with finality by action if not by word most emphatically through! The kitchen maid joined the coachman in declaring themselves (both he and she) quite decidedly over it and bound for personal freedom away from the Oblonsky house and its absolutely terrible atmosphere, an atmosphere rich with foreboding, as you will soon see.

They're not different in stakes or topic, but I think we can all agree the book would close after Choice #2.

I agree that the stakes & unanswered questions contribute to a fine story; but word choice is fundamental to the reading experience. It is the artist's paint. It shapes the narrative. It's the very thing that makes a simple story into literature. It points the reader's eye to theme, foreshadowing, subtext. It can transform a read from dull to fine art to an exhausting list of tedious descriptions.

An artist must not only have an interesting subject; she must have have control of every sentence. That is what makes the reader see her subject exactly as she intends.

kdot wrote:

I am trying not to target an audience.

Does your topic go along with your novels? If so, I like that approach. People who respect your voice and appreciate your perspective might read your books simply for the trust you've built. That sort of goes with what I was saying above about the novelist who writes a site on Little Women. I don't get a sense she is "selling" when she writes on her blog. Her target audience appears to be anyone who is interested in the topic.

(Although, I guess we could say that means her target audience is those who'd read her book. That's the best audience for this sort of thing, I'm thinking.)

Sherry V. Ostroff wrote:

I have a website - sherryvostroff.com - and I have an author page on FB at Sherry V. Ostroff. I created these when I published my first book 18 months ago. I did it on my own, and I wish the sites were better. I hope to redo when my next book is published.

I don't do any other media platforms. Between writing, reviewing, meeting with groups for presentations, signings, and life, I can barely fit one more thing into my schedule. And I'm retired.

But yes, a media platform is very important to get the word out.

Also, don't forget about getting the local newspapers to do a story or get interviewed at your local TV station.

Sherry

Hi Sherry! I think your website looks lovely. I'm a hash with code, so you've done far better than I could. Great compilation of information. It looks really professional. I've seen other authors recommend Wix for their website. I might take a peek. Thanks! smile

I understand on the "busy" front! I'm extremely busy offline too. I'm glad to know the static website and Facebook work for you. It seems a smart move -- to preserve your time for the actual novels. That might be the way I go in the end, too. I might test a few ideas just to see which feels right.

The local papers is a great tip! I've never even thought of that. Signings, groups -- that might be smarter than online promotion anyway. Pass out your card and send them to the site!

TirzahLaughs wrote:

I've had about a year or so on the new meds---and I really am significantly less depressed.  Yeah me!  The trade off is that it makes it a little harder to stay focused--hence the problem with my creativity nosedive.   But as much as it hurts to find my writing limited, I am very happy to feel less unhappy all the time.

I'm so glad to hear you're feeling happy, Bunny! I can hear it in your voice. A lilt. smile I agree: joy is the thing. With time, creativity will follow in some form -- possibly a new sort of creativity that pours naturally from your new perspective. Take it slow and feel well. That's the important thing. You're such a joy-spreader, you have a right to experience that joy yourself. I think it must follow that you'll find a way to share it. I'm sending you a big hug. x

I think once you find out what you love to talk about--whether that is truth, writing historically or  just 'A Writer on Writing', you'll attract readers as  you are well-written, well-researched and always up for a good conversation.

Thanks! I think you're right: it must be something that inspires me personally. I feel that I'm just out of reach of it. I can't quite figure out what it is, and I keep falling back on the idea of reviewing historical fiction.

I had a book review site for a while and loved it, but it became a distraction -- I put more time into it than I did my own writing. Because I found it extremely fun! But I had to reassess. If I started a new site like that, I'd want to slow WAY down on it. Maybe one review a month. That doesn't sound like a lot, but it would build an archive of some kind. That paired with Pinterest might be the answer? Possibly I could try to include a brief interview with the author!

I've also read that writing for online sites (like online papers) helps. (I have no idea if they'd have me.) Doing that and allowing my byline to point back to a static website might be the thing?

A couple years ago, I got the bright idea to write biographies / essays on composers and artists as I explored them. That idea didn't last long, but people responded well to it, to my surprise. I wondered why anyone would read my articles when I was only rehashing information readily available elsewhere. However, when I featured an artist, I also included a personal analysis of a few of the artist's pieces, references for further information on the topic, and a series of their quotations and novels inspired by their life, if some existed. Possibly it could be as simple as a site on history or historical figures: something compiled by me.  An anthology of sorts. People could sign up simply to see who or what I feature next?

Truth in fiction: you mean, like essays analyzing the way historical novelists cover real history? Or possibly just interesting bits I unearth in history? Or things I discover history has failed to remember at high volume? I love those ideas. I'm also liking the idea of "A Writer on Writing." Possibly a series of essays about the experience itself? I'd love to find a way to pair that with history somehow. Essays would seem more original a contribution than book reviews (but possibly not as fun, for I've already lined up three books to review, ha ha. I'd love the reviewing for getting me to read more in the genre!)

Or a combination of all this might be the answer. But I wouldn't want it to occupy a great deal of time. I'd want it to contribute to my goals, not overtake them. The truth is, ALL of the ideas above make me excited! As does my entire 1,300+ reading list of excellent BOOKS. My biggest obstacle is finding a way to preserve time for my actual fiction writing. I tend to dive head-first into new ideas and swim there fully immersed for ages before it occurs to me I'm not writing the good stuff. wink

Thanks for the advice, Bunny! I love you too. <3 xo

Although -- and this is me being remarkably relentless -- if you borrow my vastly exciting idea to tie together the most recent forum threads from all the groups at the site into a "recent topics" list we can all universally access, each topic conversation would lead back to a group moderated by the group's founder. Sometimes that means they'd lead to the main forum, but probably fairly often they'd lead to one of the groups already operated by someone. You'd have a bevy of moderators already lined up!

There would be a down-side: each group founder would (as I understand it) be free to delete their group at any time, or simply not bother policing. So it certainly isn't perfect, but it's an idea? It seems like the alternative leaves a lot of us disgruntled: you because you're having to police the threads here in the main forum, and us because WHERE are the threads? Unless the point is to winnow out the forums over time, so they're no longer a prominent part of the website? In which case, it seems to be working. If that's the purpose, I'm not sure I'm satisfied, but others might be.

Anyway, it's an idea. I'm sure some agree, and some find my remarks way off the mark. Such is your lot, and I don't envy it.

Cheers, Sol! smile