nynative1 wrote:

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...A Tale of Two Cities...I read this for the first time when I was 15...still has the same impact as it did back then - the 60's.


My ultimate favorite too. I experienced that impact as a youngster. It turned me on to literature.

'Beloved, by Toni Morrison

“124 was spiteful. Full of a baby’s venom. The women in the house knew it and so did the children.”


An immediate hook

703

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njc wrote:

Sorry, Poppa saying "I certainly am" feels to me like a great moment in personal courage, a slap in the face of a wicked orthodoxy.  Maybe it's better theater than prose, but I read the two together.

I certainly understand 'the device', the power that is within the sentiment, but it is crudely scripted. The stock answer in reply to the loaded question in order to control the audience. Like a pantomime script.

"....ignorant, trashy people use it when they think somebody's favoring Negroes over and above themselves. It's slipped into usage with some people like ourselves..."

The message is noble, but the delivery is as contrived, unsubtle and wooden as a 1940's government information broadcast.

I talk about literature all of the time. I  discuss it with anyone interested. I trawl the net for discussions and interaction upon the subject. I've been here on tNBW for ten years discussing literature; talking and listening.

I've never heard anyone spontaneously extol the virtues of 'To Kill a Mocking Bird' for its literary genius. No one here on tNBW has mentioned it or recommended it.

It will dutifully appear in a few 'great book' lists but that's because of its socialistic nature, not the plot or the writing. It is politically correct to like the book. It was a vanguard event in the campaign against racism using the 'south' of America as the anvil and a heinous crime and racial injustice as the hammer. It spoke out, when little else was speaking out and that in itself is it greatness.

It is book that very probably affected the world, re-aligned socially conditioned thinking, feelings and assumptions in places where racism was institutional.  It has probably done more, or as much good for society than any novel in modern time, certainly more than any superbly written novel that entertains exquisitely with wonderful fiction within fine prose and twisty intelligent plot.

If you engage in a sociology discussion and the subject is racism in the USA; then 'Mocking Bird' is most likely to pop up. 

It is great, like the discovery of penicillin. It is great for what is does for society, not for how it reads as art. 

It is so sad that such a novel was/is needed.

Harper Lee has left her mark upon this world and will never be forgotten.

704

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vern wrote:

Every story is dated before it is even written as there are arguably only seven basic plots (give or take a few according to individual fine tuning), so there is nothing new under the sun; but some of those so-called dated works are vastly superior to others. To Kill a Mockingbird in its telling just happens to be one of those superior ones to a great many folks. Would that we aspiring writers and critics could all be so outdated and flawed. Take care. Vern


If the Mocking Bird prose was published here as unknown text from and unknown author, it'd get ripped to bits.

It is great because it is a part of the racist re-education agenda and in that sense it is brilliant and has done a great job.

But don't tell me anyone is loving the prose for its literary value, or the story for its ingenuity. It is an effective blunt tool to show the morally impaired of the unimaginative variety the error of their ways. Tug the simpletons heartstrings, a moral lesson; a sermon. 

Dress it up any way you want.... but show me the awesome prose; those passages that blow you away?

corra wrote:

Dill! I was just listening to that Anthony Hopkins "J. Alfred Prufrock" reading and was going to share it here for you! I also had "The Raven" on the mind! "Dulce est Decorum est" is a favorite of mine, as is "Sonnet 116."

I'll share my favorite poem:

https://youtu.be/fwn6Xaz_uLM


Seriously good stuff!


These are some of my very dearest. They talk directly to my soul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-yZNMWFqvM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOCL_NEgf0g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgyLl06 … XC5pNaKs06

706

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j p lundstrom wrote:

A respectful pause for the death of a gifted human being.

Lest we forget

j p lundstrom wrote:

I'd wager a guess that it even seems condescending to some people. .


----------------------------------------------------------------
Excerpt - 'To Kill a Mocking Bird' by Harper Lee  Chapter 11  Page 107

"Scout," said Atticus, "nigger-lover is just one of those terms that don't mean anything—like snot-nose. It's hard to explain—ignorant, trashy people use it when they think somebody's favoring Negroes over and above themselves. It's slipped into usage with some people like ourselves, when they want a common, ugly term to label somebody."

"You aren't really a nigger-lover, then, are you?"

"I certainly am. I do my best to love everybody... I'm hard put, sometimes—baby, it's never an insult to be called what somebody thinks is a bad name. It just shows you how poor that person is, it doesn't hurt you."
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Condescending indeed. Downright cringe-worthy IMO  - Okay so the author is moralizing, teaching us about racism and fighting the good fight and that is a noble cause, a great message. But what a blunt and clunky way to convey the point. As unsubtle and contrived as a fender-sticker.

Talk about 'show, don't tell'! This has to be a classic example where prose should show us a view of racism via premise within a scene rather than cram the 'tell' message straight down our throats in case we don't have the capacity to understand anything shown within a story.

The passages above are as wooden and contrived as sanctimonious moralizing within a government information leaflet, IMO

Great stories, the ones I love always make me feel and care about something without actually mentioning the 'thing' directly...  rather than directly telling  me what to think and feel.

If Lee had written a Gothic Horror Vampire novel in the style of Mocking Bird.....   

"You are really a neck biting half bat, half human, on the side of evil who sleeps by day in a coffin, then, are you?"

"I certainly am. I do my best to bite everybody... ."

707

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Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

Stop a moment and think: All classic literature is dated. But the themes remain constant. Yes, let's give the lady her due credit.

My opinion upon the book was a totally subjective comment. We studied 'to kill a mocking bird' in school as children because our teachers were screaming liberals and it was the done thing. In truth as an English child I was never within the gun sight of mocking bird's agenda. I read the Adventures of Tom Sawyer and loved it; Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and love, loved it. I read the Tale of Two Cities and love, love, loved it.  The Thirty Nine Steps  blew me away, my first page turner and I remember feigning illness to stay home because I couldn't put it down. Heart of Darkness and Frankenstein gripped me. These books, all classics in their own right raised emotions, led me on journey and rocked my young world. To kill a mocking bird did none of that to me. I never connected and I think that I resented the book because we weren't reading and studying something awesome and inspiring instead.

A straw poll in this house. My wife and three children all studied 'To kill a mocking bird' within their school curriculum and not one of them rates it as a favorite. No disrespect to the author... but it just didn't hit the spot. My kids? I couldn't pry the Harry Potter books, Tolkien, Suzanne Collins, Anthony Horowitz, Cassandra Clare or Rick Yancey from their grubby paws... but Harper lee holds nothing for them other than school work. They, like me remember it as a chore rather than a novel bound story that gripped.

My review of 'To Kill A Mocking Bird' combined with the reason I feel it is has achieved such a a success, follows in five words:

It has a great title.

708

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http://d3w2dr5idcaabk.cloudfront.net/n1rv4n4g8/2004/julyjpgs/dogtoon.jpg

World War One Poems.... so, so poignant given their origin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB4cdRgIcB8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAFnhJojMYY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRj4DR5JTdY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eItm1xbAwoo

TirzahLaughs wrote:

Its harder to do a good reading that you would think.

Oh yes indeed. Actors/Voice Actors command great fees. The inflection, the gravitas....

I like to listen to poetry performed, I don a pair of headphones and listen in the dark with my eyes closed; let the words run through my mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLNsPhKlucY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BefliMlEzZ8

A great commercial

Prunella Scales narrates Shakespeare's 'The Tempest' Act 4 Scene 1 - the sleep

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi7HTNtEyVs

Now that's the way to sell a bed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnsTxEh … 3XiGn4lss8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKyuzXwSolA

I love the spoken word when it is spoken well.

I like narrated poems, sonnets and stories when the prose is orally performed.

Post the links to to the good stuff, here.

715

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flowing pencil wrote:

DANG.. I may get tarred and feathered as never was a fan of "To Kill A Mockingbird"   Perhaps if I read it now after so many years.. I might change my mind.

Patricia/Flo

Whilst I do feel sympathy for the bereaved and respect for the recently passed author herself; bring on the those feathers and tar...

"To Kill A Mockingbird" ? I don't really get it. As childrens genre books go, it's okay I suppose...  but it never fired me like others that I've read and I never quite got what all the hype is about? I suppose that it was one of the first YA books and possibly defined the genre, although as a youngster growing-up in London, England I never really got the connotations from the inherent racial divisions within the deep south of the USA.  All I knew of America at the time was 'The Fonz' and 'Scooby Do'.  I thought that American teenagers were all forty year old sanitized rockers and that all cartoon mysteries shared the same plot and three punchlines.   

"To Kill A Mockingbird" sells well because it is one of the mandatory childrens book titles within the schools English Lit curriculum (at least here in the UK) and has been for decades. As I mention, I'm not particularity enamored with it as a novel, but I've had to personally purchase three copies, one for each of my children in-turn as they traverse the school system. Lord knows what they do with book when they are done with it, but each requires a new copy when it is their time (along with the obligatory Lord of the Flies, Animal Farm, of Mice and Men and Shakespeare Plays).

Thousands and thousands of parents buying these books year upon year as a course requirement for their disinterested student kids because some misguided intellectual soul feels that it is a mandatory classic.

It's hardly a best-seller due to avid readers choosing the title from the bookstore after perusing the shelves looking for something interesting.

I remember my mum moaning about buying me copy when I was at school. Intensely studying a book that doesn’t interest you is an excruciating punishment for a young teenager and I think I lobbed it into a hedge the first chance I got.

My comments represent a personal opinion upon the book and fact as to why it it such a  big seller. I welcome a challenge and if anyone is willing to show me the error of my ways and extol the virtues of this novel in the form of a review, then pop over to 'the write club;' the creative writing and literature discussions group forum...

https://www.thenextbigwriter.com/forums … group.html

...and we can debate the pros(e) and cons smile

716

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http://www.funny-jokes-quotes-sayings.com/images/486xNxColbert_Graduation.jpg.pagespeed.ic.y_-QEYe5lF.jpg

corra wrote:

There are so many things I could say to scientifically refute your remarks. Unfortunately, I am recently pledge-bound to never speak of The Martian again.
... cool smile

I will just mention (because it is indirect), that today, I  learned that the novel 'The Martian' is a verisimilitude.

It was dusk - winter dusk.

is an 'anadiplosis'....

...whilst

Snow lay white and shining over the pleated hills, and icicles hung from the forest trees. Snow lay piled on the dark road...

is an anaphora...

and...

You, sir, are skating perilously close. PERILOUSLY CLOSE.

is an epanalepsis.


You, madam, probably know all about 'repeats', being scholarly; but for me, skating close led me to discover that repetition is a science with a language all of its own.

Anadiplosis: Repetition of the last word in a line or clause.

Anaphora: Repetition of words at the start of clauses or verses.

Antistasis: Repetition of word s or phrases in opposite sense.

Diacope: Repetition of words broken by some other words.

Epanalepsis: Repetition of same words at the end and start of a sentence.

Epimone: Repetition of a phrase (usually a question) to stress a point.

Epiphora: Repetition of the same word at the end of each clause.

Conduplicatio: Repetition of one word in different places throughout a line or paragraph

Gradatio: A construction in poetry where the last word of one clause becomes the first of the next and so on.

Negative-Positive Restatement: Repetition of an idea first in negative terms and then in positive terms.

Polyptoton: Repetition of words of the same root with different endings.

Symploce: It is a combination of anaphora and epiphora in which repetition is both at the end and at the beginning.

I no longer judge all repetition via the Epstien Poignancy Meter Matrix Equation, no need (epimone?), for there is a nice reference guide with examples, here....

http://www.literarydevices.com/repetition/

smile

I judge all repetition via the Epstien Poignancy Meter Matrix equation ; although I have to say, your repeat of nine with an uppercase NINE really  threw it a curve ball.

I have to admire the genius vandal who saw that paper towel dispenser and envisaged this scene. smile

corra wrote:

I kind of like the repeat. It's like the echo within such a scene.

I think that 'It was dusk - winter dusk.' is the legitimate repeat, whereas 'snow lay... snow lay...' has no quality or legitimacy (in my personal opinion).  Mind you, Aiken was only nine years old when she wrote 'The Wolves of Willoughby Chase,' so perhaps I'm being a bit harsh.

722

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http://imglulz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Blonde-fail.jpg

723

(52 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

http://i.imgur.com/ntvEh4V.jpg

I've just been reminded of this, a childhood memory.


“It was dusk - winter dusk. Snow lay white and shining over the pleated hills, and icicles hung from the forest trees. Snow lay piled on the dark road across Willoughby Wold, but from dawn men had been clearing it with brooms and shovels. There were hundreds of them at work, wrapped in sacking because of the bitter cold, and keeping together in groups for fear of the wolves, grown savage and reckless from hunger.”

'Joan Aiken, The Wolves of Willoughby Chase

Not sure about the repeat of 'snow lay' but the the scene and threat of the of wolves are well conveyed.

I remember reading The Wolves of Willoughby Chase and Black Hearts in Battersea when I was young, maybe 11 or 12 years old. The concept of an alternate history was awesome, and I was born and grew up in Battersea which made for a special link to the 2nd book.

Bonnie and Sylvia Green, Mr. Grimshaw and Mrs. Brisket. Har! You just opened a part of my brain, the memories from which have lain dormant and unvisited for decades.