corra wrote:
E. Free wrote:

As far as deciding what PoV to do per chapter, I have (quite recently) learned that it's best to go with whatever character has the most to lose.

What about Nick Carroway in The Great Gatsby?...

Or
Sydney Carton a Tale of Two Cities?

'to go with whatever character has the most to lose,' as a POV surely must dispel the suspense in some cases. In my opinion (and considering the best stories/novels that I've ever read)  the POV has to be applied to the story from the storytellers point of view.

I've read about writing for a decade; read so many books about writing that I can't remember most of them. What I've leaned is that there is so much bollocks written about writing; it's an industry of it's own.

The best books that I've ever read about writing are not about writing they are simply the best books that I've ever read.

His Bloody Project by Graeme Macrae Burnet

With The Disappearance of Adèle Bedeau by Graeme Macrae Burnet lined-up.

Still working through those Xmas presents smile Everyone I know, knows to buy me a novel.

The Gustav Sonata by Rose Tremain

The Girl on the Train by Paula Hawkins

I had to read what the hype is all about.

Inscribed

331

(15 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Marilyn Johnson wrote:

From my first day on this sight 8 years ago, Sonny and I became friends.  His critiques helped me grow as a writer, and I loved the banter that Sonny and I shared.  His was one of the first reviews I looked for each time I posted a new chapter or short story.  I am extremely sorry to hear of his passing.  He will be greatly missed.  Thank you, Suzanne, for sharing this information with us.  His friendship was a rare and special gift.

He was a gent. a proper gentleman. I had the same experience in that same era. He was wise and kind and could apply critique without criticism. It was a privilege to have interacted with him. He gave so much more than he took. Condolences to his family and Sonny, may you rest in peace. Gone but not forgotten.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b7/0e/a8/b70ea855e7057a971b560f535ad613df.jpg

hilaurus clinton
means big loss to a big joke

Thesaurus
big story means lots of glossing

Ship of Fools

Banana Republic

A crime against music

Seishirō Itagaki

Rogues Gallery

340

(73 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

The fact of the matter, evidenced in my more recent fiction writing, is I find value in expressing more in fewer words, and, in fact, point to the folly of the naturalist detailing every single fact{*} while entirely missing the context and meaning of facts.
.


Charles_F_Bell wrote:

What?

This I assume is some of your "more recent fiction writing" ?

A complete mystery thriller novel encapsulated within a single word? Brilliant. Breathtaking. A work of genius.

I was going to suggest to you a sequel called;

Where?

But shit, I've gone and done it. I've gone and written the entire 2nd novel for you!

How?

Blimey, I've done it again... written your trilogy.

341

(73 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

The fact of the matter, evidenced in my more recent fiction writing, is I find value in expressing more in fewer words, and, in fact, point to the folly of the naturalist detailing every single fact{*} while entirely missing the context and meaning of facts.
.

Great stuff. How's that working out for you?

Readers love nothing better than reading bullet points. Be sure to hi-light the pertinent words in case they are skipped over within the brevity.

342

(73 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

I learned from the age of twelve or so that the rejoinder "cite your sources" is pseudo-academic blather displaying ignorance of the subject matter because if one does not know what the sources might be, one is a pretender..

Yes, but you were under the threat of explosive bat attack from the Imperial Japanese Army at the time.

Nowadays, in the 21st century it is considered correct and honorable (good practice and decent protocol) to cite your sources when you quote researched material within your publication.

Throw your garbled thesaurus sourced insults and play the superior intellectual bully as much as you like. I'm dumb and your intellect holds no sway over me. In fact it makes you look to me like a ridiculous figure of fun.

Now then, you authoritatively stated here that the movie 'Edge of Tomorrow' failed entirely and specifically because of the script.

I say that it did not fail because of the script and in support of that opinion I give you an entire Internet's worth of evidence.

Would you please show us the evidence to back up your 'say so' statement that the script is considered responsible for the slow audience take up of this movie?

Thanks in advance.

343

(73 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
Dill Carver wrote:

Books I recall, used to be similar (at least here in the UK, I don't know about the US), where the first release run was always the hardback format with the paperback release following some months later.

Like it or not; understand it or not, NYT bestseller lists are composed from hardback sales, and the success of movies is determined by first-run theatre sales.  The reason is related to the fact that Amazon "reviews" are useless and the perishability of Kindle books. The time will tell factor is only important to historians and bean counters.

Like it or not, my only point re: book sales was conversational and upon the demise of the strictly hardback format only first release tradition. Although some prestige titles still maintain the tradition, most mainstream novels are released in paperback, hardback and kindle format from the outset nowadays.

I'm not sure if it is you who understands the NYT Bestsellers or not? I am an avid reader of the NYT Bestseller lists, I'm a subscriber to the lists. The NYT Bestseller lists are multiple lists for different categories i.e. fiction and non-fiction, genre specific lists, paperback list, hardcover list and yes, the electronic list (the e-book categories of the previous list) which includes Kindle version sales.
The NYT Bestsellers is not just a Hardback sales list. (Which is not trusted by the bean counters BTW as the list relies upon results from over the counter sales at a few pre-determined book stores which easily be by manipulated)  -You could search 'Ted Cruz NYT Bestseller cheat' on the puerile Google machine that leads my life.  If of course Google exits in the 1950's  where you live?

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(73 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

Edge of Tomorrow (2014) lost $78 million and not because of bad acting or direction or lack of action/special effects or even the story's premise - it was the script,...

Dill Carver wrote:

It can’t find the quality of the script being attributed to the movie’s poor release performance anywhere on-line? Several other reasons are suggested but I can’t find anyone from the media or movie industry blaming bad scriptwriting for the poor initial audience figures?

Would you be so kind as to share the source of the article which identifies the script as the reason the movie suffered a slow audience take-up ?

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

A life led around by Google, eh?  I cannot reveal my sources as anyone who reads my profile understands.

If you have no evidence just say it. People make shit up to suit their purpose all of the time. Because, as Abraham Lincoln is reported to have said; ‘You can fool most of the people most of the time...’

If this movie failed to meet the expectations of the industry during its opening run, explicitly and entirely due to a poor script as you state within your reply to the opener of this thread, then there would be specific references to issues regarding the problem script of ‘Edge of Tomorrow’ plastered all over the Internet from here to eternity.

There is not.   

One can listen to the script as it is performed within the movie and it doesn't sound bad at all. One can download the script in PDF format and it doesn't read badly.     

I think you are a bullshit artist whose first instinct it is to make up a lie in order to support your opinion or agenda via exerting a manipulating influence upon people you consider to be inferior and dumb.  Many people in this world don’t care and are happy to suck up to any outrageous bullshit they are fed, take it as law. Truth fabrication; it was the trade of Joseph Goebbels, has been the trade of religions since the first bullshitter was born and is the principle by which governments, politicians, corporates, the news media, public relations organisations, marketing organisations and independent narcissistic individuals thrive. It is their principle material, their stock in trade.

I’m not your patsy, Charles. You need to understand that. I am not most of the people most of the time. I am simply a deteriorating dog soldier with shrapnel in my head where the sense should be. I close my eyes and I can taste blood and cordite. I hear screams and my head swims in a vile swirl of betrayal, treachery and injustice that has consumed most of my life and all of my soul. I have come to know there are but a few true human values or virtues. These are honesty, honour, kindness and loyalty and they are the only things that make life worthwhile. Without truth where are we? We are lost and truth is becoming rarer and more suppressed than ever. It is routinely disguised and destroyed just like ISIS dynamites the Temple of Bel ruins in Palmyra because the truth of it doesn’t fit the fiction of their religion.

I am many things and most of them wanting or substandard and to many I am considered dumb. That is, as it may be, but please remember that I’m not your patsy.

The sad thing is that if you had a genuine point to make, with a little effort you could have dug up and cited plenty of real-life examples where a poor script is actually reported to have ruined a movie. Instead of that you instinctively troop out an untruth. For convenience sake you swap real-life for a real lie. But what was once called propaganda has been refurbished. It has endured a makeover and is called ‘spin’ nowadays. Spin is a precious and highly regarded and rewarded modern day skill.

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

A life led around by Google, eh?

You would have me look like a fool, an inferior, and this for using the Internet for research. For using Google in order to check facts and thereby uncover your lie. 

Good for you. Hail the Spinmiester. You are perfectly equipped for this modern society and will thrive. Perfectly dishonourable.

Me, I’m in the beleaguered and despised minority and I’m finished. I know that. I’m sure that you and yours will see to that. But I’m still not your patsy.

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(73 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

vern wrote:

If movies, books, art, etc. were plucked off the market after the first week of less than fantastic sales, then the first week would be a clear indicator of success, but thankfully the market and business gurus don't measure that way so couch potato critics ascribing success to first week numbers is rather asinine to say the least. Take care. Vern

I think the release or 'opening run in America' figures meant something back in the days when the movie theatre was the only place on earth that you could see the film. It became a less relevant factor when the 'home' cinema, VHS tapes and then DVD markets opened up. Less again when cinema became 'global' with movies being released at different dates in different countries and continents and completely pointless now that movies can be downloaded via Netflix, Amazon, and iTunes type of services.

In these times, we tend to consider movies as they are released and decide if the title is worth a cinema trip or whether a wait of a couple of months until the DVD or download is in order.  Our 65" Sony Smart TV with Bose sound is a big factor in those decisions nowadays. 

Books I recall, used to be similar (at least here in the UK, I don't know about the US), where the first release run was always the hardback format with the paperback release following some months later. I remember queuing through the night as a young man at Foyles Bookshop in Charing Cross Road for the release of John le Carré's 'A Perfect Spy.' Years later my eldest daughter queued through the night several times as a teenager for Harry Potter releases. The only way you could get your hands on the novel at release date, was hardback from a bookshop. Speed and availability of media transfer via the Internet in conjunction with counterfeiters has killed that tradition. Nowadays I simply bang a pre-order into Amazon and the book of my choice is delivered to my door on release day. I do miss the thrill of the bookshop.

346

(27 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Nice job! Number 2 looks best to me.

347

(73 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

.Edge of Tomorrow (2014) lost $78 million and not because of bad acting or direction or lack of action/special effects or even the story's premise - it was the script,...

It can’t find the quality of the script being attributed to the movie’s poor release performance anywhere on-line? Several other reasons are suggested but I can’t find anyone from the media or movie industry blaming bad scriptwriting for the poor initial audience figures?

Would you be so kind as to share the source of the article which identifies the script as the reason the movie suffered a slow audience take-up ?

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(73 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Hold on Charles, you should be yelling at Warner Bros rather than me, because given the success of the movie, its popularity with both critics and audiences and the huge profit that it made for the studio and its backers and bankers, they have announced the production of a sequel.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter … 75176.html

I don’t think that they’d bother with developing a franchise if the movie was the flop that you insist it was.

As you mention again and again, the movie suffered a slow start in US theatres upon its release. However this did not prove to be a pattern and the movie recovered to become very popular and very profitable. The reason the release was slow seems be unclear to the industry and most theories that I can find upon the subject suggest the publicity and marketing were poor and the ambiguous title 'Edge of Tomorrow' failed to evoke interest. This was addressed by the addition of a tag-line title 'Live, die, Repeat.' There are other theories that point toward an anti-Tom Cruise effect but you state the following;

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

.Edge of Tomorrow (2014) lost $78 million and not because of bad acting or direction or lack of action/special effects or even the story's premise - it was the script,...

It can’t find the quality of the script being attributed to the movie’s poor release performance anywhere on-line? Several other reasons are suggested but I can’t find anyone from the media or movie industry blaming bad scriptwriting for the poor initial audience figures?

I’m very interested in your revelation that it was actually (and entirely) the script which killed this film upon its release. I saw the film at the cinema with my son when it was released a couple of years ago in the UK. Given this renewed interest I watched the movie again on Amazon Prime tonight and thought the script was okay. There were a couple of lines I thought were a bit cheesy but no more than any other movie that I’ve seen recently. I watched this evening with my family and both my son (14 yrs) and daughter (18 yrs) loved the film. My wife hated it, but she is French and hates everything filmed in colour that is not directed by Claude Chabrol, René Clément or Jean Cocteau. She also thought that the France scenes, especially those set in Musée du Louvre looked fake, as if they’d been filmed in a studio down the road in Watford (which they were).

Would you be so kind as to share the source of the article which identifies the script as the reason the movie suffered a slow audience take-up ?

Oh, and apparently the wildly inaccurate and irrelevant 'Standard' for measuring movie success that you chose to religiously adhere to is from the ‘box office receipts only’ world of the 1950's and is more akin to popcorn sales. It doesn't take into account the 21st century and the money that movie media makes in theatres outside of the US, and the DVD sales along with TV, Netflix, Amazon Prime and ITunes etc. media outlets. To the film studios, backers and bankers the standard by which a movie’s success is measured nowadays is in dollars of profit. Money in the bank. $392 million and counting, in the bank, in this case.
http://io9.gizmodo.com/5881236/the-way- … ely-broken

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(73 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

Again. The standard is what the movie made in its first run on U.S. screens. It cost $178M and made through the summer of 2014 $100M. What it did make a year later or might make by the end of the year 3074 on Mars is irrelevant.

How does that work?

Again. The movie cost $178 million to produce and it earned $392 million within the first 24 months of its release. Argue that the film is/was an artistic failure all you want but the indisputable fact is that the movie banked a shed load of profit. The reality is that it never lost the $78 million that you say it did and the evidence is within the $213 million profit sloshing around inside of the investors and owners pockets.

By the ‘Standard’ method of determining ultimate success or failure that you cite, i.e. sampling the week one results rather than the actual outcome; the Germans won WW2 and thus rule and dominate Europe whilst the Japanese defeated America and dominate the USA and Asia Pacific. Hilary Clinton has just won the US Presidential election. There is no such country as South Korea. Aeronautics and combustion engines are a flop and the Confederate States won the American Civil War; whilst the sum of my monthly salary only ever equates to a single week’s pay.

Hold on a minute… Wow! The Germans actually do rule and dominate Europe, the Japanese have defeated America economically and true, they dominate the USA and Asia Pacific. Hillary Clinton did win the election (within the minds of the anti-democratic) and in any case the chance that Obama will let her back into the White House on his eviction day so she can once again abuse the staff then steal the furniture and fixtures and vandalise the rest, is a possibility and that should make everybody feel better, as it is a victory of sorts; and my monthly pay cheque certainly feels like a week’s worth…   

You are totally correct Charles; a movie that in reality is very successful, extremely profitable and highly acclaimed by critics and its audiences; and all of that a matter of record (fact), is a total flop/loss within your own virtual world, if you want it to be.

Carry on regardless.

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(73 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

cobber wrote:

I saw the movie and actually enjoyed it. It had one of the more original plots for a sci-fi movie.

You are in very good company cobber. Upon the benchmark movie review site, 'Rotten Tomatoes' the movie 'Edge of Tomorrow' scores 91% from Critics votes (Critic Consensus: Gripping, well-acted, funny, and clever), whilst it gained 90% approval from the Audience votes. Very respectable figures and those numbers put the movie into the upper echelons of all time highest rated movies.   

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/live_d … _tomorrow/


Scoring 4.5 from a 5 Star rating and 'Rolling Stone' rave about it.
http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/revi … w-20140605
It's a treat to watch the typically heroic Cruise lose his shit, sweating and panicking at the thought of getting up close and personal with an alien race called Mimics...

Empire like it!
http://www.empireonline.com/movies/edge … ow/review/
A playful and frantic science-fiction twister which mimics the best (Aliens, The Matrix, Groundhog Day) while offering something fresh and — most importantly — thrilling...

et al