126

(78 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

njc wrote:

Then try Jane Haddam's completed Demarkian series, esp. =Precious Blood=, =Act of Darkness=, and =Cheating at Solitaire=.

You might find =The Lost Gallows= more to your taste than anything in Christie; it includes a car chase in which one driver is dead.

NJC--
Thanks for the recommendation, I just bought Act of Darkness. I suggest The Magpie Murders by Anthony Horowitz, and his Sherlock series The House of Silk and Moriarty.
smile

127

(78 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
dagny wrote:

Charles_F_Bell
This strikes me as a masochist's  success. You can get that from Wang Chung here in a "review" that is one-third correct, one-third wrong, and one-third only an opinion. To the ignorant/naive that may look like help.

Charles,
I really didn't see it that way, but as a hint that maybe I should invest in a mystery writing course to see how off base I really am. My ego says the man never read a mystery novel in his life, but my brain tells me that I don't know everything and a little education never hurt anyone. The course I chose is reasonably priced, has a six week duration and will show me what I know and what I don't.

I've gotten really good feed back from this site, Charles. Good editing, good plot advice and reviewers have asked me the tough questions a mystery writer needs to expose holes. I've tried every workshop online and this is the best for getting your work read right away instead of waiting weeks to get your work posted on the main page. So, I'm pretty happy here.

dags smile

Wandering off the import of my original comment on the topic, opening lines, you have though made an interesting point about entering into a field of genre writing one may not be immediately competent to pursue. My mind is set on writing what I like and liking what I write, but suppose on a lark, let's say I did decide to write a murder mystery, what be the advice I should follow in the first chapter that you might have learned from the referenced site?  For example, I get the sense from reading a few murder mysteries, but mostly having watched movies and TV shows of that genre, the dead body will or will not be introduced quickly within the plot.
Hypothetical first line:
It was a dark and stormy night when Ferd Berfal entered Winterfalls Mansion to find his uncle lying dead in the anteway.
I cannot fathom a logical explanation for rejecting this except to point out that successful murder mystery writer P.D. James does not do that. In fact, she takes a long time before exposing the crime at all. As (an impatient) reader I find that annoying and prefer the Law And Order approach to lay out the crime within the first two minutes. How does an editor draw a line?

If you do not like this example, pick one of your own. Getting past spelling, punctuation, grammar, and basic elements of style, what in particular did you find helpful from the referenced site to write the opening lines of a murder mystery?

Charles,

Exactly, I thought of two or three examples of mystery novels that did the exact opposite of what this editor said a mystery/crime novel should do. Right now I'm listening to Leathal White a crime fiction novel by J. K. Rowling, published under the pseudonym Robert Galbraith. It took her 10 chapters to get to the murder.

I don't know where an editor draws the line, I just know that by telling me my 1000 words needed work on so many levels, my self confidence was rattled and now I am ready to get professional help.

I assume you mean the Opening Lines site...not TNBW...so I would say I got a wake up call...lol


smile

128

(78 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Charles_F_Bell
This strikes me as a masochist's  success. You can get that from Wang Chung here in a "review" that is one-third correct, one-third wrong, and one-third only an opinion. To the ignorant/naive that may look like help.

Charles,
I really didn't see it that way, but as a hint that maybe I should invest in a mystery writing course to see how off base I really am. My ego says the man never read a mystery novel in his life, but my brain tells me that I don't know everything and a little education never hurt anyone. The course I chose is reasonably priced, has a six week duration and will show me what I know and what I don't.

I've gotten really good feed back from this site, Charles. Good editing, good plot advice and reviewers have asked me the tough questions a mystery writer needs to expose holes. I've tried every workshop online and this is the best for getting your work read right away instead of waiting weeks to get your work posted on the main page. So, I'm pretty happy here.

dags smile

Dirk B. wrote:

Thanks, Kdot. There seem to be three seasons, only two of which are up on Google. Also, I was hoping for a single movie. A miniseries is overkill. It would be like someone making three movies out of the Hobbit. :-)

Dirk, By seasons they mean episodes, there are three episodes not three seasons of episodes. I highly recommend this version. The other versions are watered down, this version has the ending Christie intended but decided to rewrite for film because everyone likes a happy ending. This will not disappoint you, you will not be bored, and you will see the full range of Christie's genius for plotting on display.
smile

Dirk B. wrote:

There's a 2016 remake with Aidan Turner (never heard of him). It sells for $35 on DVD, $30 for Blue-ray. I'd love to see a modern version, but not for that money. Neither Amazon, Netflix, or Youtube have newer versions to rent in Canada. There's a 1945 version in English and a 1987 Soviet version available on Youtube that I'll check out tomorrow.

You can rent and stream 2015 version from Amazon Prime Video for 5.99. I saw it and it's soooooo much better than any of the other versions you mentioned. Here's the link: https://www.amazon.com/Then-There-Were- … B01A9IV54W
smile

I hope you get this before you buy the paper back:
https://www.amazon.com/Then-There-Were- … dpSrc=srch

The Rules of Prey, the first of John Sandford's Prey series, is probably the best serial killer novel I've ever read.

smile

133

(6 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

I'm not a very good writer, but I'm an excellent rewriter. James A. Michener

If a writer knows enough about what he is writing about, he may omit things that he knows. The dignity of movement of an iceberg is due to only one ninth of it being above water.  Ernest Hemingway

Never confuse a single defeat with a final defeat. F. Scott Fitzgerald

Life is essentially a cheat and its conditions are those of defeat; the redeeming things are not happiness and pleasure but the deeper satisfactions that come out of struggle. F. Scott Fitzgerald

You don't write because you want to say something, you write because you have something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald

Show me a hero and I'll write you a tragedy. F. Scott Fitzgerald

smile

134

(78 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

John Hamler wrote:

Oh, no! Please... Don't close the "thread." Whatever the fuck it's supposed to be about, I forgot already. For I used to be THAT GUY, you see. (Like Charles Bell is nowl) but I've been demoted to THAT GUY who TRIES TOO HARD to be PROVOCATIVE. It sucks getting old and playing second fiddle to the new guy stirring the pot. Fuck.

Seriously, though... I dunno if Charles is just fucking with y'all or sincerely trying to stir the boiling pot from the noble position of Devil's Advocate, but... Argue with him. For chrissakes, he's falling on his sword and doing y'all a service. There to provide y'all a sounding board upon which you can improve your writing. Seriously... Utilize your ANTAGONY towards him (subtle plug) to debate your points and sharpen your rhetoric. Or, if you haven't got time for all that... Just go ahead and grab memes off the internet in order to antagonize him. That's fun, too. smile

John, there is a difference between being provocative and insulting.
smile

135

(78 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Well, this should really upset Charles. I got my critique  back and it ripped apart my submission. No agent would touch it. It was rejected. So...Charles, I would say based on that, Richard Bradburn is a legitimate editor, and someone worth listening to.
Even though I am crestfallen, it's not easy to hear your stuff stinks on so many levels, I will rally and consider it a learning experience.
sad
PS After thinking about the critique, I realized I probably need to take a few courses. The only thing I really know about writing mysteries is what I learned from reading mysteries. I found a six week course that wasn't too expensive and I am excited about learning something new. 
smile

136

(78 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

njc wrote:

I don't know.  I prefer to ask whether the others on the forum will consider it a useful contribution.  This varies with audience of the forum, small clubby group versus everybody.

NJC I thought it was informative to let Charles know that we weren't naive and he didn't have to worry about us. smile

137

(78 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Kiss,

Gacela

lol, Gacela. smile

138

(78 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

I am suggesting to everyone: beware of all prophets proffering truth. The monetization of same is of secondary consideration.

Charles,

I told you that we were not naive, we were not swayed by faint praise. I also assured you that for most of us this is not our first rodeo, we know to look out for hustlers. This is fact, not opinion.

Had you warned us in the beginning, I think the hard rhetoric between you and others would have been avoided.

smile

139

(78 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
dagny wrote:

Thanks, Suin! smile

Perhaps you can answer the question on how an editor who claims to have a bunch of global clients is qualified to do what he claims to do. He provides no name  - only a reference to having a connection to the Irish and Canadian publishing markets, a fact irrelevant to an American author looking to write for Americans and perhaps publish in the U.S.A. Presumably he can expect aspiring authors submitting to the free site for busine$$ through clearly referenced Irish website editorial.ie, and no editor's job is to make a work publishable for any reason other than the mechanics of good writing  such as the right and proper spelling the word, "colour" as "color."

Who knew a two word response would elicit such a reaction! Dude, it's just something fun to do. It's not like we're all naive beginners who are going to be fooled into handing over bundles of cash to this editor. Lighten up. smile

140

(78 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Thanks, Suin! smile

141

(20 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Marilyn, Jack,

I am so glad you guys are okay!:)

142

(20 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Marilyn--
Sorry to be late, but I am thinking about you and Jack the Knife.
smile

Dear Firefox Browser Users,

Did you know that you could listen to content on The Next Big Writer? This is how: Go to an author's page, find something you want to read and click on it. Now look at the address window and on the right you will find a square with lines on it. Click on that, it will give you a 'reader's view.' At the left side of the page are the settings. Under the font setting, (represented by a capital A in a square), there is a square with uneven horizontal lines. Click on that. That will bring up a media player. Click play. You will now hear that aurthor's work. You can increase the speed if you want.

I started to use this when I'd fallen behind in my reading, and found I could remember details better if I listened. I also like to lie back, close my eyes and relax to a story.

I hope this is something you can use.

dags smile

Rachel (Rhiannon) Parsons wrote:

Ken and Barbie.  There, I said it, and I'm proud.

hahahahaha

Ann,
This made me smile, so I think it was fine to post it here. All I can come up with is Dorothy and Toto to go along with the Bluebird theme...Thanks for the laugh!
dags smile

146

(24 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Dirk B. wrote:

Dagny, I think you're incorrect for the following three reasons:
1.
2.
3.

hahahaha Like I said, there's always someone wink

147

(24 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Sideman wrote:

Just my opinion, but FWIW ...

I believe many folks do not post, except on isolated instances, for a couple of reasons. First, so many posts get sidetracked from the OP's question/comment that the post becomes unrecognizable  to its original intent. There's always a certain amount of drifting on almost all posts, but recently (the past year or so)  they seem to drift further and further into very loosely-related or non-related tangents.

Second, and the primary reason I don't post a lot, is no matter what you say, there's always someone who can't wait to tell you how stupid you are for saying whatever you said or whatever you asked. Polite disagreement is an endangered species. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a person disagreeing with you or having a different opinion. It's the manner in which they express it. A person with a different opinion than mine is welcome to tell me all day why - just do it with a little bit of courtesy and offer some reasonable suggestions for improvement. An intelligent and courteous defense of their position opposite mine is a strong tool to possibly make me reconsider my position. Maybe I'll change my opinion, maybe I won't. But I will listen.

However when you have nothing to say but "You're an idiot for thinking that way", "Maybe that works at the fifth grade level, but ...", "Maybe writing isn't your best option in life", "You need to throw this crap away and trying something different" etc. Why not simply say, "Well, I've found a few issues here that are important. Here are the problems I noticed and  I have a few suggestions that might help" - then offer those suggestions without first demeaning the person. Also, I give little attention to those who are rude, can't wait to criticize others but refuse to post any of their own work for review..

I've spoken with three other members here in private, and they all feel very similar about it. It's not a matter of thin skin or not being open to criticism. It's matter of simple courtesy and respect for your fellow writers.

Sideman,
I agree with you, someone is always waiting to invalidate your opinion. And these threads go down rabbit trails A LOT. I used to chase that rabbit right down into the hole, and I came up with million word rebuttals until I was emotionally exhausted. I have even been known to stir a pot or two. But with old age comes wisdom and I have learned to leave my snark at the door of this forum and focus on the topic at hand. I learned also, a non-response to snakiness directed at me from another writer, helps to communicate to them homie don't play that anymore.

I know when someone gets in your face, calls you an idiot, it's hard not to want to call them idiot, too. It's hard to resist. But ignoring what is not on topic, or insulting, keeps the focus on the topic. I know it's simplistic, something you already know, but it works. When people whose sole purpose is to disrupt see they aren't getting anywhere, they leave the thread.

smile

Dirk,
IMO the best way to improve your writing is to write.
smile

149

(11 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

JP--
This is so hard to define.

I read a lot of detective novels and most of them are character driven. Any one of Elizabeth George's novels could double as literary fiction. Agatha Christie's Poirot, Sir Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes, and my favorite John Sandford's Lucas Davenport are all characters that drive the plot.

The only thing I can come up with is that a literary novel is one balanced in characterization and plot. If I were you, I'd ignore that directive and submit anyway.

smile

150

(62 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

John Hamler wrote:

I really like that passage, dagny, especially the last line, but... I wasn't trying to debate the efficacy of "my style" so much as to show that dialogue in literature (the stuff between quotation marks) doesn't hafta include the ums and uhs and errs that are, let's face it, a part of natural speech patterns. That's what this thread was about. I think. I mean, it's a book, after all. Not an audio recording. As long as you describe the character beforehand (spits when he talks, talks when he eats, etc;) you can trust the reader's imagination to embellish the dialogue accordingly. Or not.  I dunno. We can debate that either way but just know this: The profanity itself was never up for debate.

Cheers

John,
I didn't say it was. I just thought if you were going to describe dialogue, describe it all the way. Putting said dialogue into the description defeated your purpose. According to you, describing the way someone talked was preferable to using their speech patterns, but you went ahead and used the speech pattern anyway.

You can't have it both ways. Or can you?

That might be the happy medium, John. Relax your standard to include description of the dialogue as well as a few examples of that speech pattern, much the way you wrote Tourette's grandpa at the wedding.

smile

PS BTW...tarnish was your word. I used it because you used it. Personally, Um, Uhs and Ohs do not bother me, in fact it helps me keep characters straight when more than two people are talking. But I would never say those words tarnish anything, you did.

smile