Charles_F_Bell wrote:
njc wrote:

The court's view was that because Amazon et al do not exercise any editorial control whatsoever, suing the platform would be like suing the owner of a self-service copy machine.

I'd say that any other decision would have destroyed the Indie publishing marketplace, because nobody could do a print run without exercising editorial control.  The freedom-of-speech and freedom of the press implications are larger.  Freedom of the press, it is commonly said, belongs to those who own one.  In practice, that means one who owns or rents one.  But who will offer one for rent if he will be held responsible for the words peinted?

That Amazon et al. don't exercise editorial control within their publishing empires is like saying BP et al. don't exercise control over where crude oil may go into the ocean.

Yes, indeed, blameless lying, stealing, and malicious action might not "destroy" a sector of the economy which holds itself above all that expensive self-policing action.

In my head, the judge had no choice but to rule what he did.  Amazon is not guaranteeing anything about their Print on Demand other than they require the author to format it within specs.  They make the writer promise that all materials belong to them.  They are not responsible if the writer lies...as they are not a publisher, not really.

They are providing a 'mechanical service' of printing and offering a limited 'digital' shelf space.   They are not really publishers (as much as we like to call them that).  They are book printers that include some limited digital shelf space and the option to market yourself.  In return, they don't edit, review or turn down your book idea.    If they were a publisher in the traditional sense, they might say a book about a singing bologna roll would be a bad book option.  Yes, I know someone wrote this book.   

The Author is the publisher in this sense.  The author edits, formats and markets.  Therefore, the AUTHOR is responsible for any illegal copyright issues.     Amazon only offers a printing service in the hopes of getting you to pay for add-ons and extra printing.   

AMAZON
Example: If I buy a truck from Ford for cash then let the insurance on it expire then load it up with fuel and drive it into the side of a building, Ford is not responsible for the wall damage or the lack of insurance.  They sold me a truck that happens to be a FORD with options and that's all.  I'm responsible if I ram it into walls.

Traditional Publishing
Example:  If I Ford pays me to be a Ford representative to drive around my Ford truck but they get input on the insurance, the color of the truck and put limits on my speed when I drive, then they take some responsibility in my usage of the truck.  They are 'monitoring' and editing  my use.   Ford might also tell me don't purposefully drive into walls and they believe we have a formal agreement between us that says  I'm won't do this.   If I then run into a wall and Ford didn't check that I reupped the insurance...then Ford is partially responsible because we have a partnership agreement where Ford 'vouched' for my truck and my insurance.

77

(5 replies, posted in Free Verse Poets)

Actually, I'm here too...but no one ever posts.  smile  Even in Free Verse, a writer 'feels' when a line is off, too short, too long, pausing in the wrong place.   Just because you can 't see the form, doesn't mean one isn't there.

It's a bit more 'free style' but it still has style.

78

(8 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Basic)

Great for you!

79

(4 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

TirzahLaughs wrote:

Welcome Bunny!

I was busy earlier when I said hi.  Welcome to the group.  I write poetry, a little humor, thriller and sci-fi.  I have written romance but not on a novel scale.
I am not Australian, more the pity.  I  am from the USA, KY division. 

I do read a lot of romance and I even wrote a really porny erotica short story once.  Now that I think about...what did I do with that story?  I love good romance and abhor crappy ones.

Look forward to reading!

T

80

(4 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Welcome Bunny!

81

(2 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

I loved the Prince of Tides.

sad

Some women choose to be whores,  some take to it out desperation and, others, like me were sold into by the someone we loved.

Its harder to do a good reading that you would think.

Most likely, your instructor is trying to get students in your class to write in the  current 'popular' form.   Free Verse is the poetry style of the say, just as a sonnet was poetry of the day in the past.   If one is going for traditional publication, they will find a much more difficult market for a sonnet in today's poetry market.   They people who publish the poetry magazines---are going to be less likely to look at a sonnet than a free verse poem because  they wish to be seen as contemporary.  Poetry constantly fights to be taken seriously in the modern age.

But the publication market for poetry is really mostly dead, so if your poem speaks in sonnets, write it in sonnets.

Look at ee Cummings or  Emily Dickinson, they broke the 'form' rules in poetry because that's how they saw their poems.  One of Emily's early collections, her editor edited her poems to fit the current 'style' and the poems lost something of the voice.  In the following volumes, her original layout was put back and the voice returned.  Her poems were more popular in her 'Emily Style' than in the traditional layout.

____________

And I started PLUM Crazy---to write a novel that broke every rule I was told to keep in novel writing.   The rules are given in the beginning so new writers can miss the obvious pitfalls.  Once you master the rules, then you know how and WHEN to break them.

Or that's at least what I think.

It's one thing to paint in abstract because that is your vision.  It's another thing entirely if you can't paint any other way because you have no technical skills.

smile

You can write poetry however you wish...but people may not buy it.  But it's poetry, they probably wouldn't have bought it anyway...lol.  smile   If you look at the true published poetry right now  most of them have the same underlying taste to them.   Certain themes, styles and layouts sell better.  But since the market for poetry is so emaciated anyway...I figure read and write what you want.  Most poetry is written for yourself as the rest of the world will probably never read it.

I struggle to find new poets who actually speak to me (excluding Spoken Word).

The only real thing that kills a poem---is if it has nothing to say.  If it has something to say, it needs to say it in engaging, interesting way---however you make it interesting.

"A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies." 

George R. R. Martin

__________

"When a monster stops behaving like a monster, did it stop being a monster?" 
-- Graceling

_____________

"Success is a lousy teacher."
--Bill Gates from 'The Road Ahead'

"Some failures stem from lack of vision, and some failures from too much."
from Turing's Cathedral: The Origins of the Digital Universe by George Dyson

She was an interloper, coming late, and with an expectation of slavish gratitude and devotion for the favor she was bestowing.
-Jonathan Franzen

Besides, he wasn’t wrong about whatever the hell he meant.
-Sam Lipsyte, The Fun Parts

Yes this opening tempted me to break m budget and buy this book early. I keep telling myself ---after Christmas, after Christmas....but I do love the opening.

Dill Carver wrote:
TirzahLaughs wrote:

See this opening wouldn't be one I would be one for me.  It lacks both emotion and connection for me.  The words from an intellectual point of view are nicely done but it just doesn't bounce for me.  But that's why there are so many books in the world....so we can all fall in love....


Absolutely. Imagine, art, food and goods or all nature etc. if there were only one human taste and preference!

A case in point: This is the opening of the novel that stands as a current top five best-seller in the UK book charts. 





I'm pretty much fucked.

That's my considered opinion.

Fucked.

Six days into what should be the greatest two months of my life, and it's turned into a nightmare.

I don't even know who'll read this. I guess someone will find it eventually. Maybe a hundred years from now.

For the record ... I didn't die on Sol 6. Certainly the rest of the crew thought I did, and I can't blame them. Maybe there'll be a day of national mourning for me, and my Wikipedia page will say, "Mark Watney is the only human being to have died on Mars." And it’ll be right, probably. 'Cause I'll surely die here. Just not on Sol 6 when everyone thinks I did.

Let’s see… where do I begin? The Ares Program. Mankind reaching out to Mars to send people to another planet for the very first time and expand the horizons of humanity blah, blah, blah. The Ares 1 crew did their thing and came back heroes. They got the parades and fame and love of the world.
Ares 2 did the same thing, in a different location on Mars. They got a firm handshake and a hot cup of coffee when they got home.

Ares 3. Well, that was my mission. Okay, not mine per se. Commander Lewis was in charge. I was just one of her crew. Actually, I was the very lowest ranked member of the crew. I would only be "in command" of the mission if I were the only remaining person. What do you know? I'm in command.

I wonder if this log will be recovered before the rest of the crew die of old age. I presume they got back to Earth all right. Guys, if you're reading this: It wasn't your fault. You did what you had to do. In your position I would have done the same thing. I don't blame you, and I'm glad you survived.

I guess I should explain how Mars missions work, for any layman who may be reading this. We got to Earth orbit the normal way through an ordinary ship to Hermes. All the Ares missions use Hermes to get to and from Mars. It's really big and cost a lot so NASA built only one.

Once we got to Hermes, four additional unmanned missions brought us fuel and supplies while we prepared for our trip. Once everything was a go, we set out for Mars. But not very fast. Gone are the days of heavy chemical fuel burns and trans-Mars injection orbits.

Hermes is powered by ion engines. They throw argon out the back of the ship really fast to get a tiny amount of acceleration. The thing is, it doesn't take much reactant mass, so a little argon (and a nuclear reactor to power things) let us accelerate constantly the whole way there. You'd be amazed at how fast you can get going with a tiny acceleration over a long time.

I could regale you with tales of how we had great fun on the trip, but I won't. I don't feel like reliving it right now. Suffice it to say we got to Mars 124 days later without strangling each other.

From there, we took the MDV (Mars descent vehicle) to the surface. The MDV is basically a big can with some light thrusters and parachutes attached. Its sole purpose is to get six humans from Mars orbit to the surface without killing any of them.

And now we come to the real trick of Mars exploration: having all of our shit there in advance.

A total of fourteen unmanned missions deposited everything we would need for surface operations. They tried their best to land all the supply vessels in the same general area, and did a reasonably good job. Supplies aren't nearly so fragile as humans and can hit the ground really hard. But they tend to bounce around a lot.

Naturally, they didn't send us to Mars until they'd confirmed that all the supplies had made it to the surface and their containers weren't breached. Start to finish, including supply missions, a Mars mission takes about three years. In fact, there were Ares 3 supplies en route to Mars while the Ares 2 crew were on their way home.

The most important piece of the advance supplies, of course, was the MAV. The Mars ascent vehicle. That was how we would get back to Hermes after surface operations were complete. The MAV was soft-landed (as opposed to the balloon bounce-fest the other supplies had). Of course, it was in constant communication with Houston and if there had been any problems with it, we would have passed by Mars and gone home without ever landing.

The MAV is pretty cool. Turns out, through a neat set of chemical reactions with the Martian atmosphere, for every kilogram of hydrogen you bring to Mars, you can make thirteen kilograms of fuel. It's a slow process, though. It takes twenty-four months to fill the tank. That's why they sent it long before we got here. You can imagine how disappointed I was when I discovered the MAV was gone.

LOLOLOL

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1165/13365330/23802972/411756349.jpg 

THis would be more me as sometimes I feel I must  either 'return with my shield or not at all'.

smile

corra wrote:
TirzahLaughs wrote:

And I should not tell you what I'm readings...as it's mindless, happy trash but its what I want to read right now..and I enjoy it.  I"m reading SHelly Laurenston who I find incredibly funny, sweet, sexy and just a good time.  But are they great pieces of literature?  Ugh, not really.    I love her romance series...but not her new crow series.

I have been playing with the idea of buying '"The Martian' though.

I read for the historical archive, if that makes any sense. Old books have been read by MANY people, including my own relatives, so I like to read them to read what history has read. It feels like hearing history speak. But I am utterly happy reading letters, journals, biographies, telegrams smile etc. For me, it's the archival voice. That's just what personally makes me happy. I read it for the same reason you read Shelley Laurenston.

When I really want to relax, I read a Margaret Mitchell biography. Yes, I am obsessed. I've been told. By my brother.

Most of those titles listed above were for a lit class. (Not the Plath. I read that for myself.) If I could be reading anything right now? I'd be reading...

I had to think. In just this moment, I'd pick up Anne of Green Gables for a reread. I find children's classics incredibly cozy.

(I've been waiting on The Martian for weeks at the library. I'm currently #10.) x


I really want to read "The Martian'.  I've heard great things...but the Kindle is too high right now.  I figure it'll drop or get to the library soon.

The Heartbreaking Work of a Staggering Genius.
Do Bananas Chew Gum?
ELvis is Dead and I Don't Feel So Good Myself
You Suck
Tell the Wolves I'm Home

Dill Carver wrote:

'So now get up.'

Felled, dazed, silent, he has fallen; knocked full length on the cobbles of the yard. His head turns sideways; his eyes are turned towards the gate, as if someone might arrive to help him out. One blow, properly placed, could kill him now.

Blood from the gash on his head — which was his father's first effort — is trickling across his face. Add to this, his left eye is blinded; but if he squints sideways, with his right eye he can see that the stitching of his father's boot is unravelling. The twine has sprung clear of the leather, and a hard knot in it has caught his eyebrow and opened another cut.

`So now get up,' Walter is roaring down at him, working out where to kick him next. He lifts his head an inch or two, and moves forward, on his belly, trying to do it without exposing his hands, on which Walter enjoys stamping. `What are you, an eel? his parent asks. He trots backwards, gathers pace, and aims another kick.

It knocks the last breath out of him; he thinks it may be his last. His forehead returns to the ground; he lies waiting, for Walter to jump on him. The dog, Bella, is barking, shut away in an outhouse. I'll miss my dog, he thinks. The yard smells of beer and blood. Someone is shouting, down on the riverbank.


The opening to 'Wolf Hall' by Hilary Mantel.


See this opening wouldn't be one I would be one for me.  It lacks both emotion and connection for me.  The words from an intellectual point of view are nicely done but it just doesn't bounce for me.  But that's why there are so many books in the world....so we can all fall in love.   I do think the second paragraph is interesting.  I'm not sure it'd be enough to make me read on though.

TirzahLaughs wrote:

To be honest, I like a nice simple human opening. something I can relate to.  I often feel put off by a  book that 'tries to hard to impress me with thick descriptions.  But I think it's because it's the people and the conversation I find fascinating...not the background.

Here is one of my favorite openings but I'm not sure it will appeal to you.  I will tell you it's a translation.

"On an exceptionally hot evening early in July a young man came out of the garret in which he lodged in S. Place and walked slowly, as though in hesitation, towards K. bridge.

He had successfully avoided meeting his landlady on the staircase. His garret was under the roof of a high, five-storied house and was more like a cupboard than a room. The landlady who provided him with garret, dinners, and attendance, lived on the floor below, and every time he went out he was obliged to pass her kitchen, the door of which invariably stood open. And each time he passed, the young man had a sick, frightened feeling, which made him scowl and feel ashamed. He was hopelessly in debt to his landlady, and was afraid of meeting her.

This was not because he was cowardly and abject, quite the contrary; but for some time past he had been in an overstrained irritable condition, verging on hypochondria. He had become so completely absorbed in himself, and isolated from his fellows that he dreaded meeting, not only his landlady, but anyone at all. He was crushed by poverty, but the anxieties of his position had of late ceased to weigh upon him. He had given up attending to matters of practical importance; he had lost all desire to do so. Nothing that any landlady could do had a real terror for him. But to be stopped on the stairs, to be forced to listen to her trivial, irrelevant gossip, to pestering demands for payment, threats and complaints, and to rack his brains for excuses, to prevaricate, to lie—no, rather than that, he would creep down the stairs like a cat and slip out unseen. "

I know that feeling he describes here.  So I find this character interesting and odd.  So I read on.

This is from "Crime and Punishment".

To be honest, I like a nice simple human opening. something I can relate to.  I often feel put off by a  book that 'tries to hard to impress me with thick descriptions.  But I think it's because it's the people and the conversation I find fascinating...not the background.

Here is one of my favorite openings but I'm not sure it will appeal to you.  I will tell you it's a translation.

"On an exceptionally hot evening early in July a young man came out of the garret in which he lodged in S. Place and walked slowly, as though in hesitation, towards K. bridge.

He had successfully avoided meeting his landlady on the staircase. His garret was under the roof of a high, five-storied house and was more like a cupboard than a room. The landlady who provided him with garret, dinners, and attendance, lived on the floor below, and every time he went out he was obliged to pass her kitchen, the door of which invariably stood open. And each time he passed, the young man had a sick, frightened feeling, which made him scowl and feel ashamed. He was hopelessly in debt to his landlady, and was afraid of meeting her.

This was not because he was cowardly and abject, quite the contrary; but for some time past he had been in an overstrained irritable condition, verging on hypochondria. He had become so completely absorbed in himself, and isolated from his fellows that he dreaded meeting, not only his landlady, but anyone at all. He was crushed by poverty, but the anxieties of his position had of late ceased to weigh upon him. He had given up attending to matters of practical importance; he had lost all desire to do so. Nothing that any landlady could do had a real terror for him. But to be stopped on the stairs, to be forced to listen to her trivial, irrelevant gossip, to pestering demands for payment, threats and complaints, and to rack his brains for excuses, to prevaricate, to lie—no, rather than that, he would creep down the stairs like a cat and slip out unseen. "

Dill Carver wrote:
TirzahLaughs wrote:

And I should not tell you what I'm readings...as it's mindless, happy trash but its what I want to read right now..and I enjoy it.  I"m reading SHelly Laurenston who I find incredibly funny, sweet, sexy and just a good time.  But are they great pieces of literature?  Ugh, not really.    I love her romance series...but not her new crow series.

I have been playing with the idea of buying '"The Martian' though.

Reading is for pleasure Tirz!  I'd be reading Spike Milligan right now If I'd not read all of his books over and again for the past thirty years. There's no judgment in it. Whatever anyone is reading, it is great to hear about.

I burned myself out on literature.  And life has been stressful...I just want to come home and not think.
smile

And I should not tell you what I'm readings...as it's mindless, happy trash but its what I want to read right now..and I enjoy it.  I"m reading SHelly Laurenston who I find incredibly funny, sweet, sexy and just a good time.  But are they great pieces of literature?  Ugh, not really.    I love her romance series...but not her new crow series.

I have been playing with the idea of buying '"The Martian' though.

Dill Carver wrote:

I currently have two on the go....

Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel  - Historical Novel about Thomas Cromwell within the Court of Henry VIII. A Booker Prize winner and a great read (if you like that sort of thing). I'd already read 'Bring Up the Bodies' which is her sequel to Wolf Hall. Wrong order I know, but 'Bring Up the Bodies' was a birthday gift.


Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes.

A novel set in the Vietnam War and I'm finding it excellent so far.
Interesting to this community because it was first released as a minor (self) publication but was picked up by a major publisher and has gone bestseller. I believe it will become a mainstay classic.

smile Makes me wish I hadn't burned myself out on historical readings.