Good comments K. But surely omission CAN be a deception.
Dirk:
If God is omniscient then He should know the outcome. So, He won't bet against Himself. Satan is desperate and will try anything.
If there are gaps in Revelations, then can your story fit into those gaps? The Chosen does stuff like that. Ultimately, Revelations states that God wins. We'll see the details as they unfold.
I'm trying to be somewhat theological... I hope this helps.
>>The other alternative I also considered right from the beginning was to sidestep multiple timelines (2 in this case) and have God give the prophets a vision of the future that is identical to our future. The latter would come true only if there was no challenge, which is the real world we live in. So, the Bible prophesies tell our future.
But the challenge changed that, which is a future God chose not to reveal in full. In part, it's to keep Satan from knowing his future. But mostly it's to prevent a crazy time loop. I'll skip the details for now.
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I don't know if you have any other choice. God anticipated the bet and gave the prophecies, but it did not include everything that would happen. I have a hunch that we will not fully understand some parts in Revelations until after something happens. For example, what are those creatures mentioned in Revelations 9? We'll know after they show up.
there might be parts that God fogs Satan's mind...
Except if God fogs someone's mind such that they end up in the lake of fire, is the punishment still fair?
Satan rebelled and started the whole conflict. He is already condemned to hell (Matthew 25:41). Fogging his mind doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
I don't know if it's needed but I've also read that Satan cannot read our minds.
While it could be argued that this is close to God lying, he gave all those prophets and Satan sufficient intelligence to question the prophecies, yet none of the prophets thought to consider what will happen when Satan reads Revelation. Even Satan should have questioned God's motives. As a result, Satan issued the challenge rather than suffer an eternity in the lake of fire.
Let me comment on at least a part that I can wrap my brain around his late in the afternoon.
I assume that Satan reads the Bible. However, there might be parts that God fogs Satan's mind so that he doesn't really understand it.
I think that Satan would be desperate enough to try anything to avoid the lake of fire. It doesn't matter if he stands a chance. Let's see, I have a choice of being in the lake of fire forever or trying something that has very little or no chance of working.
I'll keep on working on it.
A more interesting scene would be if Leonardo (the crazy taxi driver) breaks Joseph out of prison (he does eventually) just as the feds realize who Joseph is and go after him, with him just barely escaping from the planet. Of course, by then, Apollo has already been overthrown, replaced by Caligula, who would definitely want to capture Joseph. It would fix one weak scene after the breakout because there is no further chase involving Leonardo, this time driving a new limo. I could add seriously modern offensive and defensive capabilities to the limo, allowing Leonardo to kick serious ass. "Stronza, engage esplodere mode!"
Ya gotta make room for Leonardo and his taxi. Create some story around him. That guy is a good idea.
A more interesting scene would be if Leonardo (the crazy taxi driver) breaks Joseph out of prison (he does eventually) just as the feds realize who Joseph is and go after him, with him just barely escaping from the planet. Of course, by then, Apollo has already been overthrown, replaced by Caligula, who would definitely want to capture Joseph. It would fix one weak scene after the breakout because there is no further chase involving Leonardo, this time driving a new limo. I could add seriously modern offensive and defensive capabilities to the limo, allowing Leonardo to kick serious ass. "Stronza, engage esplodere mode!"
Ya gotta make room for Leonardo and his taxi. Create some story around him. That guy is a good idea.
I suppose they could leave the palace, perhaps with special Imperial identification to get them all the way back to New Bethlehem. Something goes wrong, and their IDs are lost or stolen.
I have a problem with this. I would assume that ID is somehow impregnated in or on you. I know that sounds like the mark of the Beast but I have a hard time imagining losing an ID at this stage in humanity.
I use Grammarly and it has an AI feature that has been pretty good. If nothing else, it makes me think about what I've written. Of course, I'll see how the reviewers respond to it. Perhaps I'll let Grammarly know how they've done.
>>It's interesting, though, that multiple universes with multiple copies of us appears impossible for Christianity. Either we have one soul per universe, or one soul across all universes. Both of them break Christianity.
One soul per universe doesn't work since when all universes wrap up and end then can some end up in heaven and some in hell?
The one soul across all universes is intriguing. I can almost envision it as that soul deciding which universe to end up in without knowing what the outcome is. That is tricky. But every time we make a decision, we do that. I if decide to cheat on my taxes then I choose a timeline compared to if I don't cheat. Each choice has its own outcome. If you look at each binary decision point/branch of my life's tree, then there is a huge number of possible outcomes. Each has its own universe, or each can impact its universe. So, is it that there are a large number of universes or a universe with millions of dimensions?
Help me out guys. I googled "sticky" and did not find anything. What's a good meaning?
This is a little embarrassing, but I was scouting around because I thought I saw a post by you. I then saw the Book Baby link and checked it out. It's interesting. Good info. Thanks for posting it a few years ago!
No problem, Randall. If all you did was to lose Internet for a while, then you've done alright for yourselves. I hope your wife is enjoying the weather!
Keep on writing.
George FLC
I don't know if this helps... Scriptures state that Satan can appear as an angel of light. So, it's not much of a stretch to think that Connor has a demon dog that masquerades as a nice little doggie. Perhaps it can spy on the good guys for Connor.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 Holman Christian Standard Bible
14 And no wonder! For Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no great thing if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their destiny[a] will be according to their works.
I just googled it and found that apparently Jesus did use sarcasm:
https://relevantmagazine.com/faith/4-ti … e-a-point/
Just remember... it's gotta be holy.
One thing I'd like to include, though, is the idea that Antonio becomes more and more holy as he does more good works. It's a transformation that would happen automatically. It slowly purges him of sin, so he can go to Heaven, which definitely is Catholic. I just have to be careful that his holiness doesn't ruin him as an interesting character. I figure he can still say sarcastic things without them being sins.
Did I answer your question? :-)
What? Being more holy is less interesting? Say it isn't so! Jesus was rather interesting. The apostles were rather interesting. Eternity will be nothing but holy so I expect it to be rather thrilling. Jesus said some pretty brutal things to people so perhaps sarcasm is allowed but it should be holy sarcasm... whatever that is. I gotta think on that one.
George FLC
Actually, I felt that your creativity earned an A. And since you came up with similar solutions as Dante then you're doing something right!
Can you treat "All the condemned souls go into the lake, but most emerge on other, pristine worlds in regular (non-glorified) human bodies. The remaining humans who Connor freed, go into the lake and end up elsewhere on Earth, which has also been restored to a pristine state" as a sort of purgatory? Or it's purgatory if they end up with glorified bodies.
Dirk B wrote:The demonic spirits and nastiest humans (past and present) will also enter the lake but wind up on nasty frozen or burning worlds, and their portals will be one way only.
I can't wait to figure out what kind of world to put Satan on.
Didn't Dante have some ideas?
There's an old joke about a fellow with his feet in a freezer and his head in an oven. On average, he's comfortable. Or you could assume a spherical cow ...
You are correct njc. Dirk, I was investigating your blue section above and came across something that sounds somewhat similar to what you wrote.:
The idea that there are different levels of punishment in hell is graphically portrayed in The Divine Comedy, written by Dante Alighieri between 1308 and 1321. In that poem, the Roman poet Virgil guides Dante through the nine circles of hell. The circles are concentric, representing a gradual increase in wickedness, and culminating at the center of the earth, where Satan is held in bondage. Each circle’s sinners are punished in a fashion befitting their crimes. Each sinner is afflicted for all of eternity by the chief sin he committed. According to Dante, the circles range from the first circle, where dwell the unbaptized and virtuous pagans, to the very center of hell reserved for those who have committed the ultimate sin—treachery against God.
Although the Bible does not specifically say there are different levels of punishment in hell, it does seem to indicate that the judgment will indeed be experienced differently for different people. In Revelation 20:11–15, the people are judged “according to what they had done as recorded in the books” (Revelation 20:12). All the people at this judgment, though, are thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:13–15). So, perhaps, the purpose of the judgment is to determine how severe the punishment in hell will be.
A clearer passage is Luke 10, where Jesus speaks of comparative punishment. First, Jesus says this about a village that rejects the gospel: “I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town” (verse 12). Then He speaks to Bethsaida and Chorazin: “It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you” (verse 14). Whatever punishment the former residents of Sodom, Tyre, and Sidon were experiencing in hell, the Galilean towns that refused to hear Christ would experience more. The level of punishment in hell seems to be tied to the amount of light a person rejects.
Another indication that hell has different levels of punishment is found in Jesus’ words in Luke 12: “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked” (verses 47–48).
Whatever degrees of punishment hell contains, it is clear that hell is a place to be avoided.
I'm not done looking your stuff over, but this looked interesting to me, and it doesn't hurt to send chunks your way.
It feels like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. You will have to explain the above without stating it exactly as you did above. Make it sound like Satan actually believes he has a chance. Expand this belief. I still like the notion that Satan is desperate and will grasp at straws to avoid an eternity in hell.
Expanding on my first comments. I can almost see Satan having an argument with one of his generals. "Don't you understand? We go to hell according to the Bible. We gotta try something! We can't just stand around doing nothing."
You have perhaps three options.
Firstly, Satan requests that God does not read Satan's mind throughout this process. Therefore, Satan has to make the bet before Satan starts making plans. The problem is that you no longer have an all-knowing God.
Secondly, in Philippians, it mentions that Jesus laid aside His Godlike attributes or powers when He came to earth. Granted, the Trinity would have lay aside all Their all-knowing attributes or suspend them for your story's timeline.
And that brings up the third option, don't mention the dilemma about God already knowing the end. And don't mention that you no longer have an all-knowing God.
Ouch! You are correct. If God created time, from the beginning all the way to the end, then He knows the outcome. He is not limited to time as we are. However, if Satan was willing to bet on being able to overcome and overthrow the eternal, almighty God, then he'd probably be willing to do it again. What does he have to lo lose? Didn't God know Satan was planning on rebelling?
Sorry, I'm coming in late. Busy, busy. As far as how demons look, how about like a hologram? Remember Princess Leia in Star Wars when she was explaining things to Obi wan, especially the beginning and the end of the message. It may not look like a rotting body, but it looks ethereal. Make it an ugly hologram!
Happy Labor Day everyone! I hope y'all were blessed with some rest today.
I'm not giving up. Deathies, or deathlies or deathers.
How about demon flesh, demon meat, demon corps (pronounced like Marine Corps)?
