276

(342 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

SolN wrote:

When giving an in-line review, I highlight text, release the mouse, and almost always start to type. The GOTCHA is that the focus is NOT in the text box for the review - it is still 'out there, somewhere" on the web page and my browser receives the entered keys. Sometimes it just ignores them, but sometimes it can really mess up a web page or even take me completely OFF the site entirely.
Would it be possible to have the focus shift to the box opened for text?

Yes, we will look to add this to the new version of in-line reviews we are working on.

Sol,
That screenshot I sent you has a comment on it about a dedicated "annotate" button.  This would solve the problem mentioned here, as well as make it easier for iPad users to initiate an inline comment, as "where to press the screen" to get the inline box to come up is not intuitive.

277

(212 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

SolN wrote:

I am a member on another website, and the way it gets around this problem is that the dialogue box for the inlines contains two sections.  The top 75% contains the entry text for your critique comments (it also scrolls as the text gets larger than the space).  The bottom 25% shows the text you selected to edit.  This section can be collapsed or expanded to be larger, and also scrolls.  The inline box is also larger overall, so it doesn't feel so cramped.  With this feature, the text you have selected to comment on is ALWAYS just below your comments.  It's very convenient.

We can do this. I'll add it to the list for the second version of inlines we are working on.

I'll send you a screenshot

278

(212 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

Still my biggest issue is having the dialogue box for inlines cover up some text so that often the concern is answered a couple of paragraphs later. If the dialogue box was to the side, it would be so much easier.

I am a member on another website, and the way it gets around this problem is that the dialogue box for the inlines contains two sections.  The top 75% contains the entry text for your critique comments (it also scrolls as the text gets larger than the space).  The bottom 25% shows the text you selected to edit.  This section can be collapsed or expanded to be larger, and also scrolls.  The inline box is also larger overall, so it doesn't feel so cramped.  With this feature, the text you have selected to comment on is ALWAYS just below your comments.  It's very convenient.

279

(9 replies, posted in Literary Fiction)

becket wrote:

The number of protagonists is not the issue - it's how they are portrayed, POV used etc.

I have been thinking about this more, and I have a couple of examples that you might consider.  House, by Tracy Kidder, is non-fiction, but it reads like fiction.  Hearing the premise - which is the tale of building a house, with VERY detailed descriptions on construction, you'd think:  yawn.  But it's actually very engaging despite the details.  Another book that comes to mind is Moby Dick.  On one level, Moby Dick is about a man and whale and a man and his demons.  But it is also a richly detailed portrait of whaling.  It has an entire chapter, for example, on how the skin of a whale's penis is used for making rain coats. (Chapter 95, The Cassock:   “...longer than a Kentuckian is tall, nigh a foot in diameter at the base, and jet-black as Yojo, the ebony idol of Queeque...”) Plenty of writers have incredibly deep illustrations of their particular expertise that they wield in ways to create their stories.  Take a dose of Victor Hugo. Maybe your problem isn't progagonists or POV - maybe your problem is story?

280

(9 replies, posted in Literary Fiction)

becket wrote:

Am I shoveling sand against the tide?
Becket

I'd say that depends on what you hope to achieve.  I consider historical fiction of the ilk you describe as a subset within general historical fiction, which is a subset itself of the broadest definition of literary fiction.  Some people will slot it differently.  It doesn't really matter how you tag it. The point is, true literary fiction appeals to a far narrower audience than does other forms of long fiction.  Historical fiction's audience is narrower still.  That's not going to change.

So, at best, you are writing for a very, very narrow audience that is shrinking with every word you write.   The chances of finding commercial success in historical fiction (even more so in your niche) is slim to none--purely because you're mining into a narrow vein.  Some people write because they want to sell a zillion copies and get on lists and be famous.  Others of us write because we love what we are writing, others because we have stories in our head that we have to get out, some people want to leave a legacy, some people just love playing with words and sentences and paragraphs..and there a host of other other reasons why people choose to write.  I say:  don't fool yourself, accept reality, and do what makes you happy.

becket wrote:

For the most part, my section breaks reflect changes in scenes.  In "Down Easter" I do take a scene and present it from a male POV and then the same scene from a female POV.  I use *** to show the break. I think you need to be simple and consistent with this device.  Let your reader figure out what is going on.  There seems to be a trend in popular fiction to dumb things down to the lowest common denominator. From what I've read of you, this technique would be a disaster. It would destroy the beauty of what you do, description, prose, characterization.  Just my two cents worth.

Becket

Thanks for the feedback.  (And thanks for your kind words)

jack the knife wrote:

Those guidelines are pretty much what I've used in my manuscripts. But then I was told by three different publishers to nix the space breaks in favor of using all asterisk breaks in order to avoid formatting miscues in the printing process. Yet I've read many novels that do use space breaks, so it depends on the publisher. So my advice would be to continue using the space breaks as outlined, and let the publisher worry about it.

Thank you. I have heard that as well.  Part of it is just to keep me organized, so I can see the sense in that.

j p lundstrom wrote:

I thought we already had this discussion.  It must be one of those topics that never go away.

How dare someone broach a topic that  j.p. lundstrom has put a fork in! :-)
How dare others that haven't discussed it have the audacity to hash out that that has been hasheth previously?  Who the heck do we think we are, anyway?

Of course, topics don't "go away" - what an asinine thing to suggest.  A forum is not a static place.  People come and go; new people come on board sometimes.  If a topic arises that has been hashed out before among members who have been on the site awhile, you know the easiest way not to let yourself get all angsty about the topic reopening?:  just ignore it...let freedom ring...

njc wrote:

The same could be said of letting kids into public libraries, unfortunately.  Not all 12-year-olds are at a 12-year-old level.  Not all 16-year-olds are at a 16-year level.  Hard age limits are guesstimates, and more often wrong than right.  The trick is keeping them from going too far wrong.

A public library is not an apt comparison to a private website that is controlled by a paywall that needs to be accessed by having a credit card or PayPal account.  I know it has a free section, but that is a mistake - and is being rectified.  The question posed was "Is this site suitable for a 12 year old".  The answer is, "No, of course not."  If you want to point out the 0.001% examples of freakishly (emotionally and intellectually) mature kids, then you are just being argumentative.  A public library is designed for 12-year olds.  A site like this is intended for adults.  Letting children on it AND having a free section:
1) dilutes the usefulness of the site for paying, adult members
2) subjects children to situations and media that cannot be controlled
Yes, they can get on of their own accord, but a parent that condones it, is just a parent that isn't acting in their child's best interest

In my novel, I use both Section Breaks (blank line between two paragraphs) and Flourished Section Breaks (three lines between paragraphs, with the middle line incorporating a line with ornamental symbols, e.g. fleurons) for transitions within a Chapter.

I want to develop my own  rule for when to apply one or the other, as I can't seem to find a solid consensus on guidelines for such.

Here's my thought:

**Section Break**
Shifts in time, but no significant shift in scene
Shifts in location, but generally the same scene (rare, but happens on journeys, for example)
POV shifts in omniscient scene
As a tool to control pace or mood (rare)

**Flourished Section Break**
Shifts in location/scene
POV shifts in multiple third person (usually done by Chapter break, but, if there is a reason to keep it in the same Chapter)

Does anyone have any rules they use, or any resources they can point out that provide guidelines for such?

Thanks

In my novel, I use both Section Breaks (blank line between two paragraphs) and Flourished Section Breaks (three lines between paragraphs, with the middle line incorporating a line with ornamental symbols, e.g. fleurons) for transitions within a Chapter.

I want to develop my own  rule for when to apply one or the other, as I can't seem to find a solid consensus on guidelines for such.

Here's my thought:

**Section Break**
Shifts in time, but no significant shift in scene
Shifts in location, but generally the same scene (rare, but happens on journeys, for example)
POV shifts in omniscient scene
As a tool to control pace or mood (rare)

**Flourished Section Break**
Shifts in location/scene
POV shifts in multiple third person (usually done by Chapter break, but, if there is a reason to keep it in the same Chapter)

Does anyone have any rules they use, or any resources they can point out that provide guidelines for such?

Thanks

Any parent that would let their child on a website like this needs their head examined.

288

(11 replies, posted in Literary Fiction)

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

I have to say that a chapter length should not be determined by how long one can stand reading in front of a computer. I know my tolerance for that kind of reading is short. Even if the computer is an iPad, and I don't have one, so I don't know what might be the difference in the level of strain induced by a desktop or an iPad,  but I do have a Kindle and have grown to dislike it for the reason there is added some weariness to reading by it, I believe there is more to be gained by creating a self-contained story within a chapter than by arbitrarily reducing it according to word length. I am toying with making my current project, a novella of no less than 15,000 words, without chapters, but I have to say there is a handy bookmark effect in creating chapters.  Is there any other reason to divide a longer work into chapters?

The fundamental structural element of fiction is the scene. One rationale behind chapters is as an organizing structure for scenes (not always).  Some people like an organized structure to their stories—readers and writers alike.  And before you go off on some fourteen-paragraph argumentative diatribe, as you are wont to do—what I am stating is not a rule to be argued, it's simply one answer to your question. (Do try and be civil)

289

(24 replies, posted in Literary Fiction)

garth hallberg wrote:

I'm new to this, so please excuse my ignorance. But why is a group focused on literary fiction worried about some rules that are/might be more appropriate to a first-year college composition course? Long sentences and "useless" words are often what distinguishes a fiction writer's voice, unless you plan on being Hemingway redux.

Touché.....thank you....but stay tuned for the rebut by Frick and Frack and Chucky....wait for it, wait for it.....BAM!!  BAM!!

290

(24 replies, posted in Literary Fiction)

janet reid wrote:
Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

“Temperance is love surrendering itself wholly to Him who is its object; courage is love bearing all things gladly for the sake of Him who is its object; justice is love serving only Him who is its object, and therefore rightly ruling; prudence is love making wise distinction between what hinders and what helps itself.”

Compare it to:

Temperance is love surrendering itself wholly to Him who is its object.  Courage is love bearing all things gladly for the sake of Him who is its object.  Justice is love serving only Him who is its object, and therefore rightly ruling.  Prudence is love making wise distinction between what hinders and what helps itself.

It's just not the same, is it?  So apart from being a good example of a well written long sentence, it also serves as a really good example of using that semi-colon lad properly/with good effect.  This is the first time I've read a sentence using semi-colons where it makes better sense - most writers (not all, most) should avoid semi-colons and rather go with two sentences.  For them, it's most of the time an improvement.  There are a few writers on the site that get semi-colons right, and making it looks easier than what it really is.

LOL...Why don't you two get a room...

291

(9 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Lesley C. Weston wrote:

Not a great solution, so I hope a real fix will appear, but I bullied the paste into being by beating on it, hard. Thanks for the fast fast fast tip, Temple. But since I am slow, I had to be fierce!

LOL.  Like trying to step on a cockroach.....I found it works better with two people...LOL...technology, gotta love it.

292

(9 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

SolN wrote:

Hi Lesley,
It's not optimized for posting from an ipad right now but it should be possible. What version iPad are you using? I'll run some tests over the next couple of days. We do have some fixed planned that should improve the situation for all iPad users shortly either way.
- Sol

Sol,
I use the iPad almost exclusively.  I have the latest iPad, latest iOS.  In the boxes used for posting, you can't paste unless you are REALLY fast.  You have to press to bring up the menu for [select/select all/paste], for example, but it disappears in a millisecond.  If you anticipate where the word "paste" is, you can hit it, and 1 out 10 times you can be fast enough.  I have seen this on other websites.  The odd thing is, it's not in all text input boxes that this is a problem.  For example, if I want to paste in this box I am in now [write message] it's no problem.  But if I want to post a submission or post comments into a general review box [say, if I write my commments in Draft or Notes and want to cut and paste into the General Review box - can't do that.]
The problem seems to be in those text boxes where you have the ability to format text.  In normal text entry boxes [like this one, or quickees, pasting is not problem] I think I detailed this problem in another post before.

293

(9 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Lesley C. Weston wrote:

Don't know why but when the content box is open, it will not accept my paste, can anyone tell me what I can do to post new content short of typing the whole thing in letter by letter. I use an iPad and pages app for drafting
Thanks!

Pasting is almost impossible with an iPad.  The site is not particularly iPad friendly.  I use my Mac for posting. I did see a note somewhere that said Sol was working on some improvements to make the site more ipad friendly.

294

(24 replies, posted in Literary Fiction)

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

2. “Temperance is love surrendering itself wholly to Him who is its object; courage is love bearing all things gladly for the sake of Him who is its object; justice is love serving only Him who is its object, and therefore rightly ruling; prudence is love making wise distinction between what hinders and what helps itself.”

--St. Augustine

In his Confessions, his entire first chapter is almost a single sentence.

I am by no means comparing myself to these men, but just pointing out that correctly constructed and properly punctuated, long sentences can be captivating.

That's not really a good example of a long sentence.  It's merely four, very beautiful, short sentences (complete with their own SVO) connected with semicolons.

295

(24 replies, posted in Literary Fiction)

While I think "sticky sentences" is kind of a stupid description, the bulk of the article is about how to get rid of weak, redundant, and useless words to strengthen your prose during self editing—which is a good thing for most people (but obviously unnecessary for someone with your superior writing talent).

While some of the examples are not very good ("some" people use an example to make a point and actually end up disproving their point), taken as a whole, the list of words the article points out is a very good one to start with when a writer is trying to tighten up their prose. 

It's easy to target a single example or two or a part of a lengthy, otherwise helpful article rather than looking at it as a whole when your intent is merely to ridicule or convince people of your superior intellect.

And thanks for posting that article, as those of us who are mere mortal writers need all the help we can get improving our prose.

296

(13 replies, posted in Literary Fiction)

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
MrsPiddles wrote:

I also use AutoCrit, which helps me find those long sentences.

.

These style correctors are big on eliminating adverbs. I can see an overuse in a single sentence and perhaps within a single paragraph, but what is the problem with adverbs generally? "He angrily threw the book on the table" has no economy of words versus "He slapped the book down on the table" and does not directly say the "slapping" is from anger rather than from carelessness, for example.

"He angrily threw the book on the table"
"He slapped the book down on the table"
Or course not.  You chose the wrong verb and you added a useless word: "down".  Is he going to slam the book "up" on the table - or perhaps sideways?
You just have to select the correct verb and get rid of useless words, then you have economy and a more effective sentence. 
Ergo: He slammed the book on the table.
Stronger sentence, 12.5% reduction in word count.

297

(13 replies, posted in Literary Fiction)

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

Well, Temple, the scene is hysterical. I laughed aloud. But I do hope he rode his roan. What kind of novel is this? It sounds as if it would have me rolling on the floor.

Doubtful; it's full of murder and mayhem (and terribly long chapters). The bits of humor are rare and subtle—like painted lips on corpses.

298

(13 replies, posted in Literary Fiction)

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

Guys and gals, I'd like your input on long sentences. Some folks seem to have a hard time if there are more than seven words in a sentence. What do y'all think?

Most debates about long sentences are much ado about nothing.  Long sentences, wielded by good writers, are works of art in themselves.  Long sentences fumbled by poor writers are like flashlights on ineptitude.  A juggler begins with two balls, perfecting until he can juggle those two blindfolded by feel. Later, it is nothing to juggle two running chainsaws, a bowling ball and three whiffle balls....

An example from a favorite writer of mine who never met a sentence he couldn't turn into art, Peter Matthiessen.  See the long sentence highlighted:

Hollering "Goodbye," to all, and to ensure attention, I rode my big roan off that barge as she touched the shore. A staccato clatter sharp as rifle fire as the horse balked, then a mighty gathering of haunches and a great leap and splash and upward heave onto the bank.  <<These heroics, alas, were spoiled by the hydraulics of my stallion, which lowered its nozzle to release a stream of piss even while it rid itself of gas, hightailing off in a grand salute of horse farts and manure as the women's cries of admiration turned to giggles.>> But finally all cheered as a grim young Edgar was actually seen to laugh.

j p lundstrom wrote:

What's wrong with just giving new members a free month, with their ten free points?  They can post a short story, and get a true taste of TNBW membership.  At the end of the month, they can start paying, if they liked it.
No more free group.  If premium members aren't reviewing their work, making the group unsatisfying to its members, and they're dropping off, why keep the Free group going?  Seems silly to keep manipulating a group that doesn't seem to be working out. 
You can't expect a society that segregates its members to be successful.  We should have learned that by now.
JP

Agree 100%

300

(8 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Basic)

SquarePeg wrote:

I could use some input on a made up word for one of my character's use. I was thinking "crap-tastrophe" but my editor suggested "crapastrophe" -which works best, do you think?

I like yours better.  I also think if you change one letter of  your editor's you have a perfect word for the misuse of an apostrophe, such as:
It's head got stuck in the washing machine.  (A "crapostrophe")

...  LOL