SolN wrote:

This is an interesting conversation. Let me take a step back and ask everyone this: what caused you to upgrade to Premium? Or, what got you to join the old site as a Writing Member? From there, we can begin to think about the writer series of features for Free versus Premium.

I went to premium to be able to read in-line reviews. 

My two cents on the in-line vs. General reviews and critiquing debate in general:  my strength is in in-line reviews.   I'm simply not very good at merely summing up my thoughts just from reading. It's a weakness and I am self-conscious about it. The inline forces me to close-read the work.  And a thorough, detailed inline often provides, within its depths, very specific, in-context feedback of a general nature, as well as on the nits of grammar, punctuation, word choice, etc.  The primary reason I petitioned Sol to expand the size of the inline comments  text box was so I could make expanded comments of a general nature when they came to me while I was doing an inline.  Oftentimes, general comments can't effectively make their point because it's hard to tie it back to examples.  Someday, perhaps, I will be a skilled enough critiquer to do a thorough general review, but I can't yet, so I don't do reviews for non-paying members or people who say they don't want inline reviews. It's not that I don't want to help them, I merely don't feel qualified.

With respect to receiving reviews, I could care less what kind of review I get—inline, general, or just a Quickee.  Just knowing someone took the time to read and comment feels great to me.  Sometimes people (including myself) can be harsh in reviews.  As long as I believe they are doing so to help me, I don't care if they are brutal - the more brutal the better, frankly, as only arrogant  or insecure people believe they can't be helped.  Does that mean I take all the suggestions - hardly, nobody does.  But I approach every comment believing the person who has taken their time to read and comment is doing their best to help, even if they have a tone that I don't care for—some people just get into a zone when they critique and write their most honest assessment given their abilities, and sometimes it comes off with an attitude they didn't intend—but they were honest and trying to help.  I like that, and such comments ALWAYS make me step back from the tone and THINK about what it is the person is saying about my work, even if I eventually judge the comment to be something not useful. 
*steps off soapbox*

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

I refuse to comment. I'm just going to sit back and read. But I MIGHT start finding nits in the posts.

Great, the Janet twins.  I'll leave it with you both.  This is a good place for you so you don't disturb the adults in the forums with topics.

*exits stage left because has a life*

janet reid wrote:
Temple Wang wrote:

Why, Hi, other Janet.  Good evening.  So happy you asked. Let me clear that up for you.  I am here to critique and have my work critiqued. I've been here not quite two months and I have ten chapters posted.  I have done 35 reviews in that time, all in line reviews, and thorough to the best of my ability.  Now, tell me, Janet—and asking with my best judgment and sincerest interest—would you say your efforts in the last two months as far as posting your work here and doing reviews is any match to that?   Because, unless I am mistaken, it looks like to me you have posted, well, nothing in the last, well, four months?  But I have noticed you've been quite active on the forums.

I sometimes also participate in Forum discussions.  These generally go pretty well until either some know-it-all steps into the middle of the discussions and throws the thread off kilter, or when some mysoginist (who might have the initials CB) decides to vent his hate.   I am not a troll. I simply don't like mother hens in the Forum. So, here's what you can take to the bank, Ms. Reid. Next time you feel the need to get bossy with me on the Forums, don't. And I promise you that you will NEVER have to deal with me again.  However, should you feel compelled to do that again, you can rest assured I will take a break from my busy writing and critiquing to set you on the right path.  Is that clear enough for you?
I have a suggestion for you.  How about you back out of my grille and go back to posting on topic, or whatever it is that you do and we just end this here before you embarrass yourself further.
Cheers yourself.

Hi Temple

Ten chapters in less than 2 months is a good indication that your writing is clicking at a good pace and 35 reviews are pretty decent too, in all seriousness, even though I don't really keep score as I'm of the opinion everyone is doing their best, and that is good enough for me.  And absolutely, we can only try our best to give good reviews and can only hope it's helpful.  A pretty daunting task for anyone like me that view themselves as aspiring writers.  Especially when you review the work of a published author!

Well, sorry to say, but I think you're mistaken with regards to me not having posted anything for the last 4 months.  I think it's probably been longer than that!  Do you think I should contribute/participate less in the forums and instead write?  Well, to be honest, I don't really think I spend too much time in the forums though, but then again, every bit helps.  So you have given me something to think about.

Do you know what?  I think I just found some common ground with you and understand where you are coming from.  There are two things I really don't like.  Motherly hens and people that kick puppies.  When I come across them, I get so mad it feels like someone had put a cracker where Max puts corn, and had lit the fuse.  Sometimes people leave comments and then they end it with "Puh-lease, get over it and move on people, nothing to see here."  This is after they repeated about half of the opinions, but just in different words!  As if they own the thread, pft!  I even had someone that left a comment when I said something in good will to the effect that they "slapped me on my hand or wrist" because my comment deserved it.  Honestly, those were their exact words!  Now, tell me if I'm mistaken here, but that is as motherly as it get, isn't it?! 

I like your style more.  Setting someone on the right path is way over there with advice your big brother or big sister would be dishing out.  So not something a mother hen would do!  But then again, big brothers and sisters can sometimes be really bossy!  Not saying you are, of course, since we're on the same side.

I haven't met any misogynists on the site though, but then again, maybe I should frequent the forums more.   But in any case, I think we're back on topic in this thread, so at least that problem is fixed.

Kind regards
Janet

Life.  Get one.

304

(342 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

njc wrote:

I'm about to play Mother Hen.  (Or maybe Foghorn Leghorn.)   I'll start by bragging about my qualifications.

I've been on online forums since 1981.  (You read that right.  Usenet, 1981.  Look up ihnp4.)

Life.  Get one.  SITE BUGS

305

(342 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

I hate when I become defensive. I also hate when folks assume they know anything about me. Yes, I have advanced degrees--EARNED not given. Those degrees came about from my determination to rise above the circumstances in which I was born. Temple, I have never commented directly to you or about you in any way that should have been offensive. If you perceived my words as such, my sincerest apology. I, perhaps mistakenly, read your comment and thought you had confused my with the other Janet. I encourage you to read some of my short pieces on site--Fig Leaves and Toilet Paper as well as Stick Shifts and Modeling might give you a little insight into who I am. My short pieces are autobiographical anecdotes written with a touch of sarcasm. You appear to be an intelligent young woman with excellent writing skills. Use those gifts. I only ask that you refrain from making comments that could be construed as insults and attacks. I posted this here in open forum so that nobody can accuse me of such tactics.

Give it a rest, lady.  This didn't start off with any misunderstanding about your name.  It started with you taking the site thread off topic and playing mother hen to adults that don't need a mother hen.  The topic of this thread is Site Bugs.  If you had kept on topic to begin with, this discussion wouldn't have gone off the rails like it did.  If you want to pontificate on your degrees and your self-important blather, write a personal essay and post it or send a Quickee. 
SITE BUGS.

306

(44 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Basic)

njc wrote:

I hope I didn't suggest that an inline review is valueless.  It is harder to read and use and I do ask/my reviewers to avoid them.

Not at all. I think you only mentioned you didn't find it valuable to you personally, which is fine.  To each his own.

307

(342 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Sol,
I have an iPad issue for you.  When I am doing an in-line comment, if I make a mistake on selecting the text, or I decide not to make the comment, I hit that X in the upper right of the comment box to close it.  Sometimes I have to hit that X many times, a half-dozen sometimes, before I can get it to close.  This doesn't seem to be an accuracy problem, as I only have it that specific condition.  Often times, I can't get it to close and all and I have to refresh the screen.   Have you seen this with your iPad testing?

308

(44 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Basic)

charles_bell wrote:

You must be fun at Halloween parties and appendectomy operations.

I'm a blast at Halloween.  That's a Halloween photo in my profile photo, actually.  I'm not much good at appendectomy operations, but looks like the last troll castration I performed seems to have left the patient impotent in more ways than one....

309

(44 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Basic)

njc wrote:

In fairness, there are some authors who request nitting.

Different authors ask for or need different things.  Different reviewers have different skills to bring.  Do we make use of it or fight it?

There is a section above the story post.  It seems to me to be simple enough to use that space to tell people what kind of review you prefer, especially if you don't want an in line.  Charles, for example, makes it very clear in his posts that he can't read inlines as a non-paying member, so offering one to him is a waste of the reviewer's time.  That seems sensible to me, and certainly a better way to make your views known on this matter than ridiculing others for preferring to do in lines and suggesting they are valueless.  How about we all just tell people what kind of review we want, and other people simply respect it.  That way we don't have to get all bent out of shape in the forum.

310

(44 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Basic)

charles_bell wrote:

This sort of rambling mess of yours is exactly the sort of stuff that ought not to be reviewed inline at all. To point out a missed period or misspelt word here and there is not a review but rather a proofread. If all a reader wants to do is to cheaply gain points by pointing out five mistakes, or what he calls mistakes, then an inline is just fine but of little value to the author who ought to have had other means for proofreading in the first place. A proper review, the sort in my opinion might be worth paying for in premium, is one that points out fundamental flaws in the context of literary standards or queries as to the purpose of the author in doing what he has done in violating particular standards, if intentional, for better understanding for the reader and author that may alter and advance the standards. There is only the emotional feedback of a rather frivolous nature to review thus: here's your five misplaced quotation marks, word-order mistakes, and paragraph breaks, but good job and great story.

"Yes, Charles.  Don't worry.  No one has forgotten you.  And everyone who knows you knows you don't like in-lines.  And everyone who knows you knows why.  But thanks for enlightening the Forum with that -  'cause who knows, maybe there's someone new who hasn't had the pleasure of seeing you vent your spleen," said Temple vociferously, and not without a hint of sarcasm.  And maybe when they see your post they'll be compelled to come a runnin' to give you a thorough Freebie review because they are so impressed by your charming attitude.  Have you forgotten the last time you crossed me Charles?  Have those claw marks on your face not healed yet? 
Can't you just try being civil?

311

(342 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

njc wrote:

The fellow who relates how he walked ten miles to school every day, in the snow, uphill--both ways--is establishing his own authority.  But shouldn't we be more concerned with the quality of ideas?  And don't good ideas, well-expressed, establish a reputation here better than any life history could?

Now that's a quality idea, NJC.  And as soon as I get rid of these Site Bugs that are irritating me, I'm going to post a quality idea myself. ;-)

312

(342 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

janet reid wrote:

Temple, serious question, meant sincerely, and asked against my better judgement.  Are you here to write and learn?  Because you're borderline to ticking all the boxes of an internet troll at the rate you're going in these forums.  Nothing personal, not saying you can or can't give an opinion, I'm really just curious.  If you could keep your reply, if you do reply that is, civilised and polite, that would be really nice of you and much appreciated.  Cheers Janet R

Why, Hi, other Janet.  Good evening.  So happy you asked. Let me clear that up for you.  I am here to critique and have my work critiqued. I've been here not quite two months and I have ten chapters posted.  I have done 35 reviews in that time, all in line reviews, and thorough to the best of my ability.  Now, tell me, Janet—and asking with my best judgment and sincerest interest—would you say your efforts in the last two months as far as posting your work here and doing reviews is any match to that?   Because, unless I am mistaken, it looks like to me you have posted, well, nothing in the last, well, four months?  But I have noticed you've been quite active on the forums.

I sometimes also participate in Forum discussions.  These generally go pretty well until either some know-it-all steps into the middle of the discussions and throws the thread off kilter, or when some mysoginist (who might have the initials CB) decides to vent his hate.   I am not a troll. I simply don't like mother hens in the Forum. So, here's what you can take to the bank, Ms. Reid. Next time you feel the need to get bossy with me on the Forums, don't. And I promise you that you will NEVER have to deal with me again.  However, should you feel compelled to do that again, you can rest assured I will take a break from my busy writing and critiquing to set you on the right path.  Is that clear enough for you?
I have a suggestion for you.  How about you back out of my grille and go back to posting on topic, or whatever it is that you do and we just end this here before you embarrass yourself further.
Cheers yourself.

313

(342 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

Having a Bachelor of Science in psychology and a Masters in education, I can't help but smile. I'm starting a new thread in the writing tips forum if anyone would like to visit there.

Let's hope your smile was at understanding the sarcasm and not merely out of smugness.  Unlike you, I am ordinary.  I was born in a mud hut in central China, yet I too can't help but laugh:  at people who sling around their degrees as if they believe they have some meaning or might impress others.  You know, we simple folk used corncobs instead of toilet paper in our village, but we generally tossed them out when we were done, as they got a little uncomfy, if you know what I mean.

314

(342 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

Oh, for newcomers, Janet Reid and Janet Taylor-Perry are two different people. I am a former English teacher, and, yes, I tend to guide when I give feedback. However, I have never been accused of being a mother hen--maybe a hawk that would devour the mother hen. smile

I know you are different people, but you both share the same predilection for stirring pots that are simmering quite nicely.  It's a common disorder.  I read about it an online psychology magazine when I was doing some research for a character in my book.  There was a clique who thought it was genetic, but their research was eventually debunked.  They think they've pinned it down simply to overcompensating for insecurities.  I can give you the link if you like—they do offer some non-invasive treatment therapies, mostly counseling though, and they require you to tightly restricted use of social media and ban forum use altogether. ;-)

315

(44 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Basic)

charles_bell wrote:
Temple Wang wrote:
charles_bell wrote:

However, the benefit of the inline review belongs  to the reviewer (premium) and not so much to the one being reviewed (free) and yet the premium will have wasted his time if the free cannot read the review or the premium has to resort to a regular review though he may not want to -- the inline review being a kind of a cheap quasi-review, except on grammar and punctuation.

Hmm...I wonder if someone who has been on the site since 2006 and is a free member who can't read in-lines is the best person to be pontificating on the value of in-line reviews...just sayin'

Actually, yes.  I will say that inline reviews are of little use to me as a free- or premium-member recipient of them, but, and you would know this if you read and/or comprehended the first post in the thread, for a paying member it could be frustrating not to be able to post them to a free member in a way they can be of use to that free member. It makes no sense to me to have a service for which one is paying but cannot use without restriction, that is: to anyone.

I have found that some people that don't want in-lines are arrogant know-it-alls that have a warped picture of themselves (Illusions of Grandeur) OR writing that is so loaded with grammar, punctuation and structural issues that they can't bear to have them pointed out OR they are simply too lazy to proof their work before they post....and some suffer from all three...it's tragic, really, as they are the ones so desperately in need —they don't realize that no matter how good the story might be, if people can't get past the lousy writing, it's all just an exercise in wheel-spinning.  Alas, sometimes life is unfair when the book must be judged by its cover.... *swoons*

316

(44 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Basic)

charles_bell wrote:

However, the benefit of the inline review belongs  to the reviewer (premium) and not so much to the one being reviewed (free) and yet the premium will have wasted his time if the free cannot read the review or the premium has to resort to a regular review though he may not want to -- the inline review being a kind of a cheap quasi-review, except on grammar and punctuation.

Hmm...I wonder if someone who has been on the site since 2006 and is a free member who can't read in-lines is the best person to be pontificating on the value of in-line reviews...just sayin'

317

(342 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

smile I know that it is sometimes tedious to wade through several comments to a thread, but at the same time, it might behoove each person to at least scan previous comments in order to preclude repeated or very similar thoughts (unless feeling the need to reiterate). This would also MAYBE put a stop to comments that become argumentative. Give and take is a great part of this site, but when the thread takes on the guise of bickering, I cannot see its usefulness.

A perfect example of what happens when someone butts into a thread with an OT "mother hen" post.  The whole thread unravels and disintegrates into chaos....Thanks  A tip for you that is far more important than reading every comment in the thread.  Read the Topic of the post.  SITE BUGS  (not BUGS SITE)

318

(342 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

smile I know that it is sometimes tedious to wade through several comments to a thread, but at the same time, it might behoove each person to at least scan previous comments in order to preclude repeated or very similar thoughts (unless feeling the need to reiterate). This would also MAYBE put a stop to comments that become argumentative. Give and take is a great part of this site, but when the thread takes on the guise of bickering, I cannot see its usefulness.

Site Bugs

319

(4 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

jack the knife wrote:

I'm getting the brackets for the word I touch, but touching it again highlights the rest of the sentence, and all I wanted to comment on was that one word. BTW, Sol, there's no "clicking" with an i-Pad. smile

I use an iPad exclusively.  It's sometimes hit or miss when highlighting, particularly when you are trying to highlight a single word or punctuation mark.  What I have found is if you zoom up to the largest font size and work that way, it's much easier.  I am also a member on another site like this, and I find it much easier there to highlight text in editing, so I think this is a site specific problem.

320

(3 replies, posted in Literary Fiction)

You are welcome to look at mine.  Journey Through the Eyes of Zhou. (Unless you are squeamish)

I am reposting edited versions of my story in the paying Premium Site as I earn the credits, so if you prefer to start there, you can earn credits and work on versions that are a little more refined.  I think i have four of the Chapters posted there.

321

(10 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Michelle,
Temple here.  I can see your stuff. I am reading Dust.  All your work is here.

322

(212 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

SolN wrote:

It's certainly not a fix (still waiting on that like you) but I've found I can click again on the same section and continue my remarks in a new box. At least it's a way around the limit until it's expanded - not ideal but better than nothing while waiting. Take care. Vern

We'll have this fixed later today or tomorrow at the latest. We are also modifying the formatting of the comment a bit more so that you can leave comments in paragraphs. Right now, we will expand the comment size to 1,000 words. Is that enough? Very much bigger and it could break the design in some cases.

I'm assuming you mean 1,000 characters.  That seems perfect to me.

323

(212 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

SolN wrote:

Somewhere along the way, if you would consider removing the word count limit in the In-Line review boxes, it would be much appreciated.

I don't think we can remove it completely because of spam comments, but we can certainly increase it considerably. Will do that.

Any idea on when this will be? 300 isn't at all sufficient.

324

(15 replies, posted in Literary Fiction)

charles_bell wrote:

Good. Mission accomplished.

Fair enough.  Stay under your bridge and you can keep me out of your hair....

325

(15 replies, posted in Literary Fiction)

charles_bell wrote:
Temple Wang wrote:
charles_bell wrote:

I am not (a) writer who has an audience

Here, here! Now there's something *

. . . a woman can take out of context to make her fallacious accusation.

Zzzzzz