The site needs to incorporate a feature independent of auto save that saves in process reviews and doesn't t post them until the reviewer is ready.
I agree. It's something we'll add over the next couple of weeks.
Great. Thanks
Thanks, yes I know. I just prefer that as a default. Appreciate your openness to all the suggestions
I want to learn, help other people learn, and maybe have a little fun doing it.
As to the working model: when I compose email in a web-based interface, the page periodically--and often--sends change updates to the site. (In the web model, the operation is called POST. Sorry.) These are saved as a draft until I am ready to send the email. Would something like this, with the ability to save the draft, recover it on a web failure, and go back and resume work, satisfy the need as you see it? (On the `real' keyboard now, though it's more a keyboid--on a flaptop.)
TNBW is the only site I'm on. If I used multiples, I would never get anything done. What never? No, never! What, NEVER. No Not Ever At All.
So you have more knowledge than I do.
I want the same thing when I look at reviews of my work.
In which case I recommend that you ask that TNBW people do conventional reviews, not inline, until they fix some problems stemming from their model.
Regarding this last point, you misunderstood
I don't have any problems reading reviews by others. My issue is that I can't save Final Comments before I post. [which is the topic of the post] My comment about wanting to look at my work was just part of describing the core of what I want out a site like this. I wasn't complaining about it.
To make it clearer - I want two things from the site:
1. Effective way to critique (including being able to save my final comments before I post) to earn credits so I can post my work.
2. Effective way to read critiques by others of my work.
Point 1 is the issue (with respect to not being able to save closing comments before I post); Point 2 is not a problem.
This site had a forum like that. It's still up.
http://old.thenextbigwriter.com/forum/index.php
I think this site is moving away from that kind of organization. Having used it in the past, I found it problematic and a source of ongoing friction. I don't think you'll see any site of significant size with a general site forum. Scribophile is not a very big site and I don't think where TheNextBigWriter is going.
Scribophile is not small. In terms of "active users" and in terms of new work posted each day, and in terms of dialogue on forums, I can assure you that it dwarfs this site. I am not suggesting this is where this site should go, I am simply making the point that there are some forum discussions that should occur at a site level, rather than a group level. Furthermore, I think having some sort of organization to the Forum rather than just one big basket in which too toss every topic makes for a forum that is less useful.
Temple Wang wrote:cobber wrote:I've found one central forum to only exist in writing sites with a few hundred members. In my experience they tend to cause problems once a community reaches a certain size. At that point, arguments break out and the community convulses and then splits. I've seen it on the old site and other writing sites I've been on like writerscafe. The other sites you mention are ticking time bombs if they have a site forum.
I think Scribophile is the granddaddy of all of these kinds of sites. I haven't been on in awhile, but it had a great, very active Forum, and part of its effectiveness was its organization. I had other issues with the site, but it's the best model of Forum that I have used.
I'm on Scribophile now, and it's set up is just like this one. You join groups and post to groups and each group has its own forum.
I beg to differ. The main forum site screen on Scribophile is open to all-not segregated by Groups. Its categories are: Writing, Publishing, New Members, Book Discussions, The Cool Hang Out Chill Zone, and Meta-Scribophile. While it does have separate Group Forums, this home page for forums is open to all.
Well they could add some help forums for help and bugs. I think that's a good idea.
I think the idea might be to keep the General Forum focused on topics of use to all.
I've found one central forum to only exist in writing sites with a few hundred members. In my experience they tend to cause problems once a community reaches a certain size. At that point, arguments break out and the community convulses and then splits. I've seen it on the old site and other writing sites I've been on like writerscafe. The other sites you mention are ticking time bombs if they have a site forum.
I think Scribophile is the granddaddy of all of these kinds of sites. I haven't been on in awhile, but it had a great, very active Forum, and part of its effectiveness was its organization. I had other issues with the site, but it's the best model of Forum that I have used.
I've found one central forum to only exist in writing sites with a few hundred members. In my experience they tend to cause problems once a community reaches a certain size. At that point, arguments break out and the community convulses and then splits. I've seen it on the old site and other writing sites I've been on like writerscafe. The other sites you mention are ticking time bombs if they have a site forum.
So, it you have a technical issue with the site, you discuss in in a Group Forum isolated from other Groups?
You, I, and the site owners all have a different take. But there's no conceptual reason that your flow couldn't front mine.
My flow is based on the interactions I have here. I've given reviews that hit the old site's 1kword limit, and had to continue the review in the forums. (On one chapter, too.)
Sounds like you've spent time with either human or machine processes. I'd love to brainstorm##########analyze and debate this with you at length--around my other projects/commitments.
It may hinge on what one wants from the site. My objective is to get my work reviewed. Some people's primary interest is doing reviews. While I enjoy doing reviews, it is a means to an end. If I give good reviews and do enough of them, I earn posting rights and I make friends with people who will do thoughtful, reciprocal reviews. As such, I want the review process to be straightforward and efficient. I want the same thing when I look at reviews of my work. I don't want to kill time on a website when I could be writing...
I want the past relived, revived and reanimated. I want Filliam, Sandy Anderson, and I want the living to return also: JEliz, Doug Moore, workquick, sonny... and so many others from out of the past, wonderful writers whom I listened and learned on the old site.
Email them, well the living ones of course. Tell them to return!
To me, Filliam is and will always be the definitive reviewer. So kind, so thorough; the woman set the bar high for all reviewers. She wrote about Hawaii, the University of Manoa, the people there... so real! She captured the academic grind, tenure track runs and I can still picture her scenes; so alive in real-people speak with deeply emotional multiple-hued nuances.
Why did they leave?
I'll try to get a few hundred coherent words on the subject by Tuesday Midnight EST.
I don't think this one of those things where the wheel needs to be recreated. This is pretty basic stuff, and virtually every website of this nature: Scrib, CC, InkedVoices, ad infinitum has a basic structure in place for organizing forum categories: Site Technical Issues, Writing Craft, Group Creation, Critiquing Tips, Meta, Resources, Reading, Unategorized, just to get strarted....then add, change as you need to. Dumping it all into one big pile simply isn't s sustainable model for a vibrant forum.
It seems to me that the difference between 'painful' and 'unusable' is the jump-to-top combined with the lack of cursor movement control. Fixing those might be a stopgap.
Agree. I also can't "paste" into the comments box. I had this great idea to do my comments offline in another app (Drafts), because there is no way to "save" a review in the closing comments. But it was a waste, as I couldn't paste. I ended up having to use the dictate feature - which work swell, but not ideal.
I think the basic design rationale was that a review is a set of comments, but not a 'work'. My own preference would have been for a work's reviews to be more like a forum thread, but with the option at some point for, say, a chapter's thread to fold into one (or one of several) general threads for the encompassing work. It would be possible to go from a review post to the version active while the post was made, which gets to the topic of versioning in multlayer works.
I'm thumbing this reply on the Android, so I'll cut it short here.
Maybe, but I don't see how that serves the owner of the submission. If I want to review in lines an individual viewer has on my work, I don't want to look at it one day, then realize the next that they have added more. That's just asinine if you ask me. Finish the review, save it if you need to, then post it when your done. It's the only sensible workflow I can imagine.
Yeah, editing on a tablet or phone is not ideal. We've been experimenting with this a bit and may have some ways to make it easier. For now though, I would recommend posting and editing on computer.
I think this is probably shortsighted. The number of people using tablets for this kind of thing is large and only going to grow. Serving the tablet crew should be front and center of any website these days.....
Sol
It's the comment box that is annoying. I haven't tried the regular review, so can't give feedback on that. Inline review comment box is the problem for me. The cursor jumped to the top. I would place the cursor where I wanted it to be, using my finger. Type more.
New paragraph, I would enter and it jumps back to top.
Place cursor back where I want and so forth
Until, the screen would no longer accept moving down anymore. I had not used
my word quota.
I had to submit my review as it was. Ending on a quirky note, and hopefully not to discouraging
This, coupled with the inability to "save" final comments before posting is a recipe for frustration and mistakes.
Well, the obvious solution is to do both. There should be a Forum for the site that is well organized, and there should be forums for the Groups that are more freeform. This is just common sense and is the way 99% of other sites work - for a good reason. The way this is set up, it's almost useless. It's like walking into a crowd with a thousand people and trying to have a meaningful conversation with someone other than the first person you bumped into...
I would like the option to sort the posts to a forum topic so the latest post is at the top.
I have tried out numerous writing group sites, and one thing they all have in common is the concept of "saving" (an incomplete) review vs. "posting" (a complete) review. The autosave feature is great, of course, but the way this site is setup, an in process review is available for viewing (by anyone) while it is still in process. This is just dumb, frankly. The site needs to incorporate a feature independent of auto save that saves in process reviews and doesn't t post them until the reviewer is ready. This isn't a bug, it's basic functionality available on even the most rudimentary websites of this nature.
In addition, this would also resolve the issue of not being able to edit closing comments prior to posting. Maybe everyone else is smart enough to write everything in one sitting, but I am just not that smart. Sometimes i need to take a break.
This would also add a nice new tab on a users Reviews page called "Reviews in Process"
I am a little confused about the organization of the forum. Frankly, it's a mess. I have never seen a forum on a site like this without categories for topics. Even the most rudimentary forums have basic categories, such as Writing Tips, Resources, New Ideas, Meta, What are You Reading, (some category to post all the stuff that is just ramblings), etc.. Then, topics can be assigned to these categories to make the Forum more useful. It's add that a site that has been operating so long has such a primitive forum. Is this not an issue for anyone else?
I have been having some frustrations too, but not to the extent I see here. However, I did find one interesting thing today. If you have an iPad, using the dictation button for long sections of text is awesome.
