Sol, this may be a new bug. I reviewed Janet Taylor-Perry's Abyss, chapter two, this evening between 9-10 PM ET. I had numerous problems getting the inline comments to submit. It may just have been a performance issue with the site. However, I discovered that a little impatient duplicate clicking eventually made the inlines submit. I subsequently saw that I had left 55 comments, which is way more than I actually had left.
Google Chrome on Windows 7.
Dirk
After a little time on the site, here are some of the things that I feel could still use adjustment:
5. A way to flag something as edited and up for new review--within the same project. We shouldn't have to be creating entirely new projects for edits of existing projects. And I really don't want to be forced to scan through these multiple versions of the same project to ensure I'm seeing/saving/using all the valuable feedback.
Linda, I don't understand the above about item 5. Why not simply increment the version number on the chapter in question, within the same project? You can then either hide the old version(s) of the same chapter, or leave several of them up for others to compare them, assuming they want to read the old and the new content. I assume the versioning capability applies to short stories, poems, etc. although I haven't tried that.
I must be missing something.
Thanks.
Dirk
Why does it involve more clicking and scrolling then going to another forum, finding the thread, going to the end of it and leaving a comment? I don't really understand the logic of this workflow.
In terms of being notified, this is something we can add in the future and seems like a much better solution than creating a new forum for every piece of posted content. Assuming the author wants others to be notified.
I'm just trying to wrap my head around your proposed workflow, Sol.
I assume you're suggesting we use regular reviews for discussions, since I can't picture how inline reviews would work for back-and-forth discussions, especially among numerous individuals. If you really prefer that regular reviews serve as discussion threads, I think the following would be needed:
- A button at the top of the chapter to jump to the bottom of the page. It saves having to scroll repeatedly through the entire chapter and lots of old reviews/discussion, to get to the latest ones. Some people have countless reviews, making for *very* long pages. Reduces carpel tunnel syndrome.
- The ability for anyone to subscribe to the discussion, just as we can to forums/topics, so that we're notified when someone adds to a discussion that we're interested in.
- Eventually, you'll probably have to break the reviews into pages, like you do the forums, since a single page will probably become too unwieldy.
All of that sounds an awful lot like the group forums you already provide. The group forums are simple. If someone wants to discuss a work, they can throw a thread into the group forum. A major advantage of using the group forums for work-specific discussions is that anyone can pop into a group, quickly scan through the forum topics to see if there's anything interesting being discussed about any work in the group, add their two cents, and maybe even decide to sample the works in question. If an author really wants to keep third parties out of the discussion, let them create their own group.
I currently can go to a single thread in Sci-fi to read what's being discussed about KHippolite's Mrs. Blue book. It's organized into pages, so I can browse through the pages to see past discussions if I want to, and I go to the end to see the latest discussions. In my book's case, I sometimes have chapter-specific discussions in the group forums, since I want as many eyes as possible to see certain specific discussions.
If active discussions move away from the group forum, using regular reviews per chapter to try and do the same thing, no one else will see what's actively being discussed without manually searching the reviews at the end of each chapter. I doubt anyone would do that.
Recommending two very different ways (forums vs. regular reviews) to do the same thing means that some will use one way and others will use another, creating confusion. (It gets even more complicated when you consider that we also have the Additional Feedback group, Linda's Old Forums group, and your plan to potentially resurrect the old site's forums, which also had an Additional Feedback forum. Some of these will hopefully fall out of use and be discontinued as the new site matures.)
The only way to fix all this would be to allow discussions at the chapter level, work level, group level, and global level, and a way to search/wade through them. That would be a huge undertaking.
Hope I'm making sense.
Dirk
I don't understand the purpose of this. Right now, you can leave as many comments as you want on a piece of writing. You can have conversations and within in-line reviews you can even have multiple threads where you can discuss items right in the document. We'll be expanding this functionality soon. Why would you want to take these discussions back to a forum which is just loosely attached to the work in question? This seems like a massive step backward. The most logical way forward to me is that comments on the work should be on the work, not on an associated forum.
Sol, I think most of us agree that the best place for a discussion about a work is with the work itself, although some people used to gain exposure to other people's work by first encountering it in the Additional Feedback forum on the old site.
That said, are you suggesting we use a series of regular or inline feedback reviews to have a discussion? I suppose reviews could be used for that (the complete set of reviews appears right after the chapter), although that workflow right now would involve an awful lot of clicking and scrolling. And how would we be notified if someone has added another review to someone else's work? Are the coming enhancements going to address all of that?
Or am I not understanding you correctly?
Thanks.
Dirk
Another wishlist goodie would be to put a little more information into the emails we get notifying us that someone has reviewed one of our chapters. It would be great if it could identify which chapter was reviewed (number & title).
Thanks.
Dirk
I'm the opposite of PByrd. I need to drown out other noises because they distract me, so I put on headphones and listen to Celine Dion blast out my favorite tunes. For those who've never heard her sing O Holy Night, I couldn't recommend it more highly. I keep expecting my computer monitor to explode when she hits those high notes.
I'll add my voice to this request as well. I've been surprised many times by my browser doing god-knows-what when I start typing while still outside the inline text box. Would love to see it fixed soon.
Thanks.
Dirk
I placed a copy of this post in Writing Tips & Advice for future reference. It's less likely to get lost than among all the Premium posts.
Dirk
Following is from a thread in the Premium forum started by TirzahLaughs. I thought I would copy it here for future reference.
Dirk
TirzahLaughs
Honestly creating Mobi Kindle files will give me a stroke. If you want to create your MOBI (kINDLE EBOOK) FILE yourself, you can. There are a couple of free programs to convert it...but honestly none of them are 'super clear' on how to use the programs. I find tech people rarely write 'clear' instructions.
But depending on how complicated your manuscript is, you can use Calibre to convert your file to MOBI.
I recommend following the directions below...as it is the easiest version I've found.
CALIBRE
http://www.guidingtech.com/6601/how-to- … i-or-html/
DIRECTIONS.
Some tips:
Edit your metadata (book title/author name) in Calibre
Remove page numbers for E-books.
Make sure you've include a front page or Dedication Info
Your formatting will change in the e-book. No indents in ebooks. Just FYI.
When you convert the file, the TOC option will pop up (but not until that page). If you want a TOC, you can click the auto version here. If it doesn't work, there is a work-around.
SolN
Would it be helpful if we converted them for you? It's something we are playing with.
Mariana Reuter
The following is a link to a complete fool- and author-proof guide to MOBI formatting for Amazon. You don't need to be computer savvy to follow it because it explains the process step by step. You only need to download two programmes (Calibre and another one), both for free and virus-free, and invest from three to four hours to convert a 70000 words novel.
Yes, three to four hours. Nobody said it was a fast process if you want to end up with a professional product. However, the time is worth the result. Of course, there's people who will gladly do it for you for a fee. It all depends on your budget. Prob is that, after spending on the proof-reading, the cover artwork, etc, you may wanna save a coupla pence on the MOBI file creation, which is something you can do yourself.
http://guidohenkel.com/2010/12/take-pri … ormatting/
Kiss,
Gacela
TirzahLaughs
SolN wrote:
Would it be helpful if we converted them for you? It's something we are playing with.
I think most authors would appreciate. Many of the less techy ones pay companies to do it for them. The more techny google and do trial/error.
T
TirzahLaughs
Mariana Reuter wrote:
The following is a link to a complete fool- and author-proof guide to MOBI formatting for Amazon. You don't need to be computer savvy to follow it because it explains the process step by step. You only need to download two programmes (Calibre and another one), both for free and virus-free, and invest from three to four hours to convert a 70000 words novel.
Yes, three to four hours. Nobody said it was a fast process if you want to end up with a professional product. However, the time is worth the result. Of course, there's people who will gladly do it for you for a fee. It all depends on your budget. Prob is that, after spending on the proof-reading, the cover artwork, etc, you may wanna save a coupla pence on the MOBI file creation, which is something you can do yourself.
http://guidohenkel.com/2010/12/take-pri … ormatting/
Kiss,
Gacela
That's why I loaded the Calibre Quick Guide to Mobi above. For those who want something simple, the PDF I attached will allow them to do a simple MOBI conversion in Calibre. It took ten minutes.
The more complicated your manuscript layout, the more you may have to go the long route with HTML. But if you just need a simple Mobi file with basic chapters and no weird formatting...the Quick Guide will do it for you.
FYI...I found my hyperlinked word chapters flowed through to the TOC in Calibre! Yeah me!
T
Norm d'Plume
Sol, I think it would a great additional offering, as long as people know it's available (needs a little promotion now and then to remind us) and doesn't cost too much. I would definitely use it, although there are now several self-help options described above.
Sol, I think it would a great additional offering, as long as people know it's available (needs a little promotion now and then to remind us) and doesn't cost too much. I would definitely use it, although there are now several self-help options described above.
Actually, I use the edit feature (posting without points) very frequently. As I receive reviews, I make changes to my chapters and edit over the old content before other reviewers drop by to read the chapter as well.
If I were making big changes, I would re-publish (with points) and ask/hope the same people to re-review it. I don't do this since I'm saving all major changes for my next draft.
Dirk
dagnee, you're not being dense. Either that, or I'm dense too. :-)
Everybody is trying to figure out the best way to handle post-review feedback now that there are so many groups. I currently post chapters to Premium, Basic, and Science Fiction. My reviewers and I have been using the sci-fi group for additional feedback on my work. Just in case, though, I'm also a member of the existing Additional Feedback group and the Old Forums group. Both of those groups get virtually no traffic.
Dirk
While we're adding to the wish list, the Visit Your Groups area on the right side of the home page shows the one most recent forum post for each of my groups, but they often disappear before I even know they were there. I'm not sure what the algorithm is for when they appear/disappear. It would be ideal if the most recent post to each group's forum remained visible in the Visit Your Groups area. The link should then take you to the latest page in that group's forum, not the first page. Ideally, take me right to the bottom of the latest page, where the new post is located.
Thanks.
Dirrk
One of the writers I review created a group specifically for his own book. Since I read a lot of books, I wouldn't be able to join them all. We used to use the Additional Feedback forum, which I guess is now obsolete. I'm still a member of the Additional Feedback group here on the new site, not to mention the Old Forums group, which also has a Writing Feedback thread.
Kenny has it right. A forum attached to each story seems ideal. Not sure what the technical hurdles would be, especially since we now have group forums and, if memory serves, some resurrected version of the old site's style of forums coming in the future. The complexity is growing, especially if you're new to the site.
Dirk
NJC and Tom, wouldn't creating empty threads generate a lot of useless emails for group members? Especially if it's just one checkbox that generates a thread in every group a writer is posting to. I'm worried people will generate the threads "just in case", when there's really no need because no one will use the threads. Right now, for the most part, there's no thread until either the reviewer or the author has something more to say. Technically, it's possible to suppress automatic emails for newly created empty threads, but then no one will be notified when someone does add to the thread.
Dirk
Sol, would it be possible to show the space/line formatting that we type into the chapter notes? You do so with the book summary, which makes it much more readable.
I use spaces/blank lines to help my readers read my book summary and chapter notes. Right now I have to use *** SCREAMING HEADLINES *** to make the chapter notes easy for my reviewers to scan through.
I know you're generally trying to keep the book summary and chapter notes "real estate" as small as possible, presumably for handheld devices, but I use white space to add readability. If I wanted to write everything as one long paragraph, I would do so.
Notice how I use separate paragraphs to make my point. :-)
Thanks.
Dirk
Thanks, Don. It's an interesting idea. Mama does do organic (see below).
I eventually decided to include a bunch of tractor front loaders inside the warehouse to scoop/dump the dirt into the utility carts. It's the warehouse-scale version of that monstrosity in Kenny's picture. I was trying to avoid using them because I wanted the work to be backbreaking. What I eventually settled for was "exhausting". It's still a nasty Warming-exposed work environment with cooling fans blowing dirt everywhere, so the filth and discomfort level is about the same.
Funnily enough, it turned out Mama does ship organic stuff. After I started rewriting to incorporate everyone's feedback, I added a couple of extra guided missiles during the taxi chase. They end up plowing into one of Mama's trucks labelled Organic Fertilizer. Naturally, the truck expodes in the middle of rush hour traffic sending manure raining down on everyone below.
Don, I included a chase through a crowded open-air market in response to your suggestion for a more interesting escape from the spaceport. Also added a paragraph addressing your questions about the terraforming process, and a part where Leonardo is about to kick Joseph and Paul out of the cab when the hunters show up. Turns out he lost his boys to his ex-wife so he finally decides to help them. Plus, let's face it, he's the crazed cabbie. He'd probably do it for kicks.
K, if you're reading, I added your suggestion of the pizza drone. Awesome! The cab buzzes past it and the drone gets whacked by a guided missile, exploding into "a fiery ball of metal, plastic, and mozzarella". :-) I also gave the cab's AI a personality, so it's less like HAL, and made it smarter than 3PO, except that Leonardo keeps hitting it with his fist on the dashboard. It keeps resetting, eventually frying the altimeter, so the AI doesn't know precisely how low they are to the ground when that moment comes.
Thanks to all for your suggestions. I love the result.
Dirk
Actually, JP, the button was added at the request of myself and others. If you receive an average of ten reviews per chapter multiplied by 40 or 50 chapters per book, that's a lot of reviews to work through. Some are simple, and I do them right away. Others are more complex and I save them for a future rewrite of the chapter. By clicking Applied on a review, I'm simply flagging to myself that I'm done applying the suggested changes to my offline book. I can then look at the Regular Reviews Received and Inline Reviews Received tabs and see, at a glance, all of the reviews I'm done with and all of the ones I still need to work on. No one except you sees which of their reviews you've "applied" or not.
Dirk
Thanks, Tom. I agree option "a" seems better. Unless I can think of something else, I'm going to go with it. I think I have a little more leeway since it's space opera rather than hard-core sci-fi, so "entertainment" is also a factor, hence the many plotholes in the Star Wars series. I try to stamp out as many of them as I can, so I appreciate the help.
These days, a real sci-fi story set 2000 years in the future would be forced to pretty much automate everything, probably also excluding the insane flying taxi ride that takes place later in the chapter as the slaves try to escape. Self-driving vehicles are only about 10-20 years away, so I wonder what will happen to taxi and bus drivers at that point. Not to mention speeding tickets (a major source of revenue for some towns). A vehicle could pick up passengers, drive them where they want to go, accept Apple Pay, and then continue on to wherever the dispatcher programs it to go next. I've been on airport tramways that were fully automated almost ten years ago. I did wonder with those what happens when someone gets stuck halfway through a closing door. Yikes!
Dirk
Hi Tom. It's slave labor for a shipping company that is moving topsoil offworld to seed new colonies on other planets. The slave/shipping owner would want to do this in the most efficient (lowest cost) way possible. He doesn't care if slaves die in his service, although he's not intentionally killing anyone or making them do work as in a penal colony setting.
Dirk
What a monster! Topsoil, however, is only a few feet deep, at most, but let's assume there is machinery at the digging site. I assumed so when I wrote the scene, but didn't bother to write about it, since it was outside Joseph's POV. You still need a way to get it in and out of a cargo hold. Hence, the canvas utility carts. It's really about the most cost-efficient way of getting it from a dirt pile in the warehouse, dumped there by dumptrucks, into the ship by either slaves digging vs robots digging that are maintained by humans. I also considered some form of tractor front loaders (baby brothers to the one in your picture) to lift the dirt from inside the warehouse and dump it into the carts that are then pushed into the cargo hold by slaves. I probably have to include them.
Any other suggestions on real back-breaking work that cheap slaves could do?
Thanks.
Dirk
I have memory problems from medication, so I'm forced to keep track of all kinds of information for easy reference (spreadsheets!), plus I reread/tweak my earlier chapters frequently as a way of remembering what I said and, therefore, what I want to say next. Sometimes I just go off on a tangent and research something that I'll eventually need to know anyway. I also take chapter-length detours just to see where the story takes me. Eventually, I get back on track.
Kenny (and anyone else), I'm still trying to clean up my slavery scene set in the distant future.
I originally chose shovelling truckloads of rich topsoil as the slave task for my two characters because I wanted it to be backbreaking, sweaty work in an insanely hot warehouse/spaceport environment near the Imperial palace. I considered having them load or unload ships with other cargo, but felt that the entire process of moving pallets full of goods from inside a warehouse into a ship's cargo hold or back out could be entirely automated by installing repulsors and a computer in every pallet. The pallets could pretty much move themselves.
I tried to justify dirt as the choice as it can easily get into any exposed repulsor mechanisms, preventing full automation. However, once I switch to four-wheeled utility carts for the soil, automation again becomes a possibility, albeit with the requirement for ongoing maintenance of the automated equipment in a dust-chocked environment. I originally kidnapped 60 people in an earlier chapter (a reasonable number of people on an instellar transport), who are now spread out throughout the spaceport toiling away. I feel the immediate scene works best with two guards, so twelve slaves in one warehouse seemed like a reasonable number for them to guard. I should add that as soon as you put humans to work in that hothouse, you need electric fans (and tons of water) to keep them from dropping dead immediately. The fans would definitely kick up a ton of added dust.
The options seem to be:
a) Say something like "Using AI-driven equipment to scoop and load soil aboard ships was simply less economical than feeding synthetic slop to slaves due to the high cost of buying, incessantly maintaining, and replacing machinery that could readily operate in a dust-chocked environment."
b) Put enough "droids" to work (100?) shovelling and loading dirt that it requires a sizeable team of slaves just for the maintenance (cleaning dust/dirt out of the exposed parts of the machines).
Technically, I think the idea of having to constantly maintain automated equipment in that environment could be virtually eliminated by simply sealing exposed joints/circuits with flexible material, like rubber or even Saran Wrap (TM). :-) So, really, neither option is truly reaslistic.
Obviously, in that distant future, the cost of "feeding synthetic slop to slaves" could be as little as I want, therefore potentially cheaper than automation. That suggests option a.
Thoughts?
Thanks.
Dirk
Oh, I love the pizza delivery drone. It's totally in keeping with the ridiculous scene.
Also in keeping with the chapter is the name of Leonardo's ex-wife. Donna Pelosa is Italian (or was it Latin?) for hairy woman. 
Leonardo has another scene later in the book. I'll have to bring him back in the next books too. Maybe upgrade him to a spaceship.
-40? Now I remember why I don't visit family in Calgary in winter.
Dirk
You're right, of course. I'm thinking perhaps the AI tries to warn him (e.g., "Leonardo, I --") and he commands it to shut up and keep going. Come to think of it, 3PO did make multiple attempts to warn Han about the hyperdrive.
I also need a way to lose those guided missiles.
One thing that helps is that this is the notorious Crazy Cabbie, so I can make stuff up for his cab that wouldn't normally exist on a regular vehicle, like suicidio mode.
I can think of several chapter mods to address your points. I'll have to play with it.
Thanks.
Dirk
