This section is dedicated to any discussion related to NJC's novel.

Finished chapter 56 of Cobber's State of Vengeance.

Hello everyone,

On September 9th I posted that NJC was given courtesy access to our group. This was because I felt it was ridiculous for him to have to post follow up comments and new insights into our works all over this site wherever he could fit them in. I also mentioned that I didn't forget by group consensus we had a limit of 8 members. What I didn't realize and just assumed (Yes, I know all about the attached idiom "Then you made an ass out of you and me?") was that he didn't have the room on his plate to take on our group's rotational commitment on a 20 day cycle. I was wrong on that, he already put in some reviews on Cobber's S.O.S around 4-5 already without even being an official member.

Consequently, I've discussed with him the option to join as a full member and after considering his time commitments, he's agreed to join. Although I am listing him in the rotation list as of now, his participation in the rotation cycle does not begin until this Thursday FYI.

Now, this time for certain he is the last member and there will be no more than the 9 of us. Unless one of you is related to someone like James Patterson and want him to join then, well, what can I say to that other than ghost write my book for me!

NJC was already half in since he was reviewing half the members in this group before it was even formed. This is also why he falls in the special exception category to me.

I said before, I try to make decisions that benefit us, and if you are apprehensive about increasing to 9 members consider it's like medicine. You may not like the taste, but it's good for you and in the end you will see come to see that.

NJC's engineering and scientific background will be especially useful to Alkemi and Matthew Abelack who are writing works that often involve scientific principles.

"But Jube, I'm in other groups and already am pushed to the limit of getting in reviews on the 20th day."

I did think about that and can offer an off set. What does everyone think of pushing the 20 day mark back to 25 days for the 9 of us? Remember, there are several members who fluctuate and will turn in reviews sooner than the last day allowed and sometimes actually need to that last day. I think it will have little impact to push back to 25 days on members who put in reviews sooner more often than not. The extra 5 days will help with our members that are pressed for time and can just barely get the reviews in.

You might be wondering if I could just say something like this in a shorter form. You've seen the length of my chapters, right? If only I had an Andrew Jackson green back for each word I wrote, I could buy my own country smile

Can I get a consensus vote from all of you on moving to 25 days? Silence is taken as a yea vote smile

Chekov's gun should be the opposite of subtle, it should be noticeable. What is noticeable often draws interest because it's noticeable. When a police officer approaches you and you're not sure why, it is definitely the gun holstered at his side that will grab your attention. The LEO has a gun and that rivets your interest, but you don't know what will be done with that gun, the mystery factor, which can "be fired" in a later chapter. So for example, 10 chapters later, the officer is found shot to death with his gun, and your fingerprints are all over it.

Chekov's gun on a table is noticeable and draws interest, but the reason why it's on the table is the part that can be subtle or unexplained at that point in time. If Chekov's gun is hardly noticeable or not noticed at all then the effect falls apart for that lost opportunity at that moment in time because the reader goes right past it and doesn't attach any interest to it. The interest factor is compounded when later the gun is seen to be fired and the immediate connection in the reader's mind to the earlier "Is that a gun?" is linked.

I don't think Johan had much screen time in your novel and was for the early and middling chapters either showing up a minor amount of the time, tied to Tanessa's character, or not at all? He can obviously become a much more relevant character in Book 2 and that's up to your design, of course. But I do know the best way to showcase a revealed or self-revealed traitor, good or bad, is to throw in bits and pieces throughout the chapter where the reader wonders about odd acts or odd communication from said character. Then when the revelation comes, the reader says, "Oh! So that's why they did and said that back then."

If you do the sidebar, I think it works well to follow that path and have Johan do or say things that aren't obvious about his intentions. It's a fine line because you don't want to confuse the reader, but you do want to place a question mark in their mind as "That's an odd thing for him to say or do. I guess it may show later what that was all about." I'll try to toss out an example of what I mean, so hold the laughter down some since you know your project far better than me smile

Tanessa: "Johan, are you going to just watch from the sidelines or take a side when all hell breaks loose from the MiBBs?" Johan: "I can't tell you everything because some things I'm doing on the fly. But I made this." Johan holds his hand out, showing a small egg-shaped device. "What is it?" "It's a voice DNA housing recorder. I've loaded a pre-recorded message on it, and a sample of my DNA is enclosed. The DNA's cellular decay rate will prove beyond all doubt it was recorded before and not after."

So in this example the reader knows Johan is up to something, he shares a known topic with Tanessa, he made a pre-recorded message for some important reason, which he won't disclose here, and he didn't answer the question if he would take sides or "just watch".

It's sort of a spin off from the Chekov's gun technique. Chekov (not the one from Star Trek) was a famous author who pioneered the technique of placing a gun in the story line then later on in the story, the gun is used to great effect.

Just a quick reminder for our general reviewing modus operandi. We are continuing to follow Matthew Abelack's original idea of reviewing more than 1 chapter of the person up on the rotation list in general. So it's a minimum of 2 chapters if they are normal sized as indicated by the points. For example, let's use me and Cobber as the extremes at both ends of the bell curve.

While I probably write the longest chapters, Cobber probably writes the shortest among us. It is perfectly reasonable to only review 1 of my chapters if it's one that runs 5 or 6 points. It is completely unreasonable to only review 1 of Cobber's chapters that are normally set at just over a half point.

Now, if you chose to be mean to me and reviewed 10 points worth of chapters when I'm up on on your rotation list, which translates to 2 of my larger ones, then I may need to review 5 or 6 or more of your chapters when I get back to you on rotation, but I will reciprocate those points back.

This is fair, I think, and easy to work out since the points indicated per chapter can be used as a simple guide.

Let me know if there's anything confusing here.

I think the main component is in projecting this intent to others. A diary, a speech, dialogue with others, etc.

"You see, I did what I did because the moral sickness was running too high a fever in this fine city I was born in. I know my methods could be considered terrible, but it was necessary and effective. I ask you not to look at what I did, but at what I achieved. No longer will husbands betray their marriage vows in the cloak of darkness called the night. No longer will our gentle women go so far astray in considering their choices in life." --- signed, Jack the Ripper.

"Ah, but you explained how you were not a villain, but we still see you as a monster." -- signed, A sane society of humans.

Here's how I see that. Johan is going to have to do more than just identify himself. After identifying himself the rest of Earth's leadership or military higher ups or both are simply going to wonder who he is and why should they listen to any warning from him? Maybe it's a trick to lower Earth's defenses. When the U.S.S. Indianapolis, a heavy cruiser carrying the 2 nukes to end the war with Japan was sunk, a base commander thought the SOS message was a trick to lure his ships into a trap. See how easy it is for the military to not believe it is what it is?

So Johan is going to have to do some fast talking after identifying himself, which I think you should not wait on. Revealing him earlier helps your story because unlike the saying "Familiarity breeds contempt", I feel in a story familiarity helps bond with the story and take in the story concepts easier with less unknown quantities and less guessing. You should only want to *hide* an identity until later because that's associated with some sort of a big surprise impact. That's not the case here. If he reveals himself later it changes nothing--the MiBB armada is still in position to attack.

I also think you should use dialogue to pull Johan's backstory out for his audience to see. Earth's representatives should ask him pertinent questions and his answers will show the reader how he provides his backstory to the others in communication with him. The questions from Earth's representatives should have the flavor of *depending on what you say* because, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but there is not any instance where your story gives a reason for Earth's leaders to be completely trustful of the Terrapoets, right? From the Earth's defense leadership at this point, the Terrapoets are at best considered a neutral third party and at worst the friend of my enemy is my enemy.

On a different note, I don't like his moniker--Nightstalker. He should use a moniker that points to what he is about. Like an elite computer hacker that uses the handle "Shieldbreaker". I thought about suggesting "Overwatch" but that's a common one taken to mean snipers in the battlefield. Good monikers are hard for me to come up with.

Finished a review of Cobber's State of Vengeance, chapter 55.

Completed reviews for Matthew Abelack's Krudges: The Girl Who Lost the Earth chapter 29 (final chapter) and chapter 1 for the sequel - book 2.

"Well, shuffle off to Buffalo and watch the world go by. I've been lagging this summer and return to find you all laying down track on the horizon. Kudos to all, I've much to catch up on. I reviewed chapters one and two of Randall's "Cartel's Revenge"."

Eh? Don't you live in California too, Matthew? Now why would you go to Buffalo with snow and rain when you can stay in drought stricken, apocalyptic California where not a drop of water falls from the skies any longer? Soon we will all be walking around in sip suits, like in Frank Herbert's Dune.

I just turned in Cobber's chapter 49 and will be moving on to chapter 50. I'm going to post some of my main thoughts so far on Cobber's SoV work. My ideas will come as nothing new to Cobber who has already seen them posted on my reviews, but I want them in the forum for any open discussion as C J has done. We're a little too quiet on our forum brainstorming IMO and agreeing or disagreeing or adding on to such open discussions ultimately helps Cobber. But chirping crickets not so much, right?

Finished reviews on Cobber's State of Vengeance for chapters: 10,11,12,13,41,42,43, and 44.

Hmm, Cobber, do you mean, like C J is asking, that there is a certain day/time you have to completely take down SoV? If that's the case, I'm sorry I misunderstood, and was doing line editing on the sequential chapters I left off from. I can drop the editing, read through the chapters, and pick up my reviews from Chapter 41 onward if time permits. I read pretty damn fast when I all I need to do is read. I can get to your chapter 41, just from reading, in about 3-4 hours from where I am at now on reviews.

I'll step up my reviews of SoV......

Hello everyone,

I want to update all of you that access to our group has been given to long time member NJC.

Now, I haven't forgotten that by majority consent our group is limited to 8 members. NJC is already busy with another review group he's in plus other commitments, so we are all on the same page. I simply wanted him to have a place to centralize any of his follow up review comments.

He's already reviewing many of our members as it is. Rather than have him post a message here, there, and anywhere else when he wants to expand on an idea, it's much better if he can use the forum here where each of us already has a devoted section for follow up comments.

I always try to take actions that will benefit all of you, and this is something I feel will help both us and NJC.

Those of you who are already benefiting from his reviews will have noticed he isn't your average reviewer. Most reviewers can pick out awkwardly phrased lines, grammar nits, and the overall flavor of the chapter they are reviewing. Those like NJC can go beyond that and detect how the mood is built, the energy of the lines and paragraphs, and if one is building toward the pivotal point correctly.

Completed reviews of Suin's Being Fifteen - chapters 3,4, and 5.

I think it would have been more accurate if I had used the word *tension* where many times I used the word conflict in my reviews. From now on, I'll try to focus on using the term conflict for larger scales versus smaller items.

From what I gathered, there are several ways to engineer the plot. One of the most used is the 3 Act Structure. In that form the first conflict point occurs around the 25% mark of the novel followed by the second major conflict point at roughly the 50% mark and the final climax-tying loose ends together-conflict point is at the 75% mark.

Whether you are following such a systematic approach or not, your first conflict point is good to go IMO. It was presented early and clear enough to the reader to pick up on without trouble. The discovery of the diatoms, the adverse environmental impact the blooms can deliver, and Tony, the main character, trying to not only learn more about the issue but rally support are all identifiable. As a reader, I would both hope and expect as the chapters go by that this diatom bloom will manifest into something that is clearly a threat with dire consequences, needing to be dealt with ASAP. I'd be sure enough to bet you didn't set it up as something passive-aggressive like if nothing is done about them then in a 100 years the Earth will have a CO2 increase of 2% or such. The threat has to be felt near enough to raise alarms and large enough to scare the reader. The blooms grow exponentially and begin creating toxins that kill sea life which causes people who depend on the sea for food and trade to suffer etc. - something like that.

Romance component - We find this included in story lines to varying degrees far more often than not, and it truly does cross genre boundaries. You find romance in science fiction, fantasy, historical fiction, etc. Souring Seas has this component and it's featured or at least the beginning development of it right off the bat with the opening scene and Beth across the street seeing Tony coming out of the shower heading for the phone. Sure, we don't actually know it's going to go in the romance direction but what was well done about that is to provide just enough to the reader to anticipate it. Well done there. The romantic rivalries are in play as well. Tony starts off feeling the rivalry for Beth's boyfriend once he learns of him and this seems to grow stronger over time. My question about Jacinta possibly feeling a rivalry was because I didn't recall anything in narrative or otherwise that indicated why she would not be considered available. Was there a mentioned reason the reader could pick up on as to why Tony would know she is unavailable? If I remember correctly there was a line in a past chapter where Tony couldn't help but compare Jacinta to Beth in his mind, but that part wasn't coming out strong enough to lead the reader to believe Tony couldn't bring himself to be attracted to Jacinta or such as an example.

Tension - There are many ways to create this and some ways can be as obvious as having a character with a gun pointed at them to far more subtle ways like a rival stealing research from the character. It may not be possible to have such tension in every chapter but we should all strive to have as many chapters as we can include it. I can speak from experience and say what happens when there is not enough or none at all. My very first posting of chapter 1 got around 20 reviews I think. All 20 reviews were brutally honest and told me in different words to go back and learn how to construct a chapter/story before posting again. I did that and re-posted a completely different chapter from scratch. I remember John Hamler, on this site, bluntly told me my chapter pissed him off because everyone was getting along, and it seemed like one big chorus line of characters singing "We are the world". He explained readers get drawn in and held by tension / conflict / characters disagreeing and seeing how to approach problems differently etc. So that's what I'll pass along. I'm still smarting a bit from an outside review that I remember asked me "Can you write better than a 5th grader?" as a parody point from the show - Can you beat a 5th grader? Anyways, you do have such a character in Tony's rival who insists everything can be approached as a scientific model in generalities. A tension example using adversary Steve could be can you imagine how Tony would feel if he suddenly found out that Steve was invited onto their research team so to speak and Steve accepted? Tony would then have to deal with the little monster on a daily basis practically. Just an example and I don't want to be seen as blundering in on your creative process. I don't want you to think I am not respecting the boundaries between reviewer and author.

The final item I'd like to mention (finally, the long-winded Jube has reached the end of his preaching sermon!) is although you mentioned Jacinta was already designed with a tension/conflict point with Tony in the area of beliefs, bear in mind she, and any other character, can have more than one nail that stands up and refuses to be hammered down. What if Jacinta finds out about Beth being pregnant and Tony interested in her? You could spin that as a irate point with her where she believes Tony's interest in a pregnant woman is immoral despite being told the boyfriend is gone. Maybe she questions Tony if he intends to pursue her with marriage in mind and gets upset at him when he says he doesn't know. A clash of cultures, a clash of beliefs, a clash of morals.

Alkemi, your reviews are always useful, and I read many of them before this review group was formed as our reviews did at times cross paths on the same author. Also, I believe you are our group's only bona-fide scientist, so there will come a time when we may need to ask you on the forums for some scientific insight. I remember once reading about a guy who desperately was looking for scientific feedback because in his story he had a world that wasn't spherical and didn't know how gravity would play out to affect how the people on that world walked, and developed.

I'm running late on this but congratulations Randy on the success of your short story. I like the fact they gave you the recognition, but would it kill them to have shelled out something to show your value? I mean they are probably paying the actor to read your story, but not paying the guy who wrote it? It boggles the mind.

Anyways, in the next few years, we expect to see one of your novels on the big screen smile

I'll toss in my 2 cents and agree with C J here. In the chapters I just finished reviewing, this part did come up and I was taken aback at how Tony, who has been so far portrayed as a scientific under control and thinks things through kind of guy would come out and ask Beth who he doesn't really know all that well such a question.

As to the science, yes, I think it's interesting in how it's gradually being built up for the reader as an environmental threat, but I'll say again the science should be the supporting pillar to your story and the characters plus how they interact and react to others and situations should be the meat and potatoes of your story.

My feeling is you have to divide yourself into Alkemi the scientist and Alkemi the writer. The writer within you should be out most of the time, and the scientist should take center stage when the science is being explained in the story.

I haven't read any of his chapters but for it's contribution to the subject at hand, I skimmed some of Dom Chambers chapters. He's a fellow scientist on this writer site and was writing about werewolves. His characterization is prominent and he uses a fair amount of gestures and animation for his characters. Here are some examples from one of his chapters: "and expelled a sigh of relief" / "Carter scowled" / "He bit his hand until pain replaced the memory" / Now, he is writing a piece that requires a higher pace and more action so Souring Seas should definitely not take the same pacing/action approach, but you can incorporate body language and verbal queues in your characters for a greater effect.

I forgot to ask after reviewing the last chapter in the series on this review cycle, but it seemed with Jacinta's reaction and easy to indifferent acceptance of Tony's announcement of a new girlfriend that any possible love interest in both directions or one direction between Jacinta and Tony is a no go? As their creator, you know whether or not there is to be any involvement between Jacinta and Tony but to the reader, you've done a good job of leaving the question hanging over their heads for the reader to wonder about. The wondering seems to be over though with her lack of reaction to the news. If you wanted to keep that door open for future chapters, it could be done by showing a bit of jealousy on her part to the news.

Completed reviews of chapters 8,9,10, and 11 for Alkemi's Souring Seas.

Suin, I actually do check from time to time on who makes the 20 day mark or not. It's easy enough to plot the dates and let my Excel worksheet fill in if 20 days was met or not. Not only do I spot check, I also go to anyone who has missed the 20 mark's profile page and look if they have done reviews in that time for someone outside our review group. I guess I fall under the category of believing in a person's desire to rise to sainthood while never forgetting to lock my door behind me smile

I do want to be very clear on this point. We do work off the honor system and everyone has mostly adhered to that (Because we are an honorable group of 8 individuals smile). When someone doesn't make the 20 day mark, like everyone else, I figure it's simply because they got a little too busy. The reason no one hears any noise about it from me is simply because the honor system has worked for us. Even those who have missed their quota often will come back, and post extra reviews as makeups on their own. It has not happened, and I doubt it ever will that a member would take in reviews and begin cutting corners. Like consistently missing the 20 day mark and/or providing skimming type reviews that are third rate work on our other members. I would notice that at some point during my spot checks and would have to remove/replace the member from our review group.

The reviews we each receive and provide each other are like golden currency. For example, has anyone mused how much it would cost to dig in your wallet/purse to pay someone with writing experience (writing a good number of chapters qualifies on this point) to spend an hour or more to review and provide edits would cost? It would cost a lot. The 8 of us can and do provide the kind of reviews to each other that can easily surpass an average reader's eyes. Each member of our group is carefully selected for their ability and understanding of how our system benefits themselves as well as the group--a win win so to speak.

As such, I feel it is my responsibility to keep our tranquil pond free of falling rocks. I get periodic requests from others to join our group and I always turn them down for the reasons mentioned.

So for all members please note, don't feel like you are setting aside your valuable time to make the 20 day mark, but it doesn't matter because no one is bothering to check. I'm checking.....

Time off is not a problem. Somewhere, in the earliest guidelines posted to guide our review group is mention that members would likely need to take some time here and there.

Also, remember to indicate any revised chapters of your completed novel you want us to review again.

We all hope you will be successful in restructuring your work, writing, and other commitments.

Completed reviews for CJ's Raven's Curse, chapters 7,8, and 9.

Okay, I've turned on an extra light bulb as I pondered the dilemma of those who are near or at the end of their last chapter and need review help in larger doses.

Because we had a secondary rule for reviewing, one that could arguably come from Captain Obvious, which was after your 1st required review of the next person in rotation, you are free to review anyone, and as many times as you want, in those remaining days until the 20 days are up. That I think is the key here.

Here's an example, Anon De Plumme has reached his final chapter 45, but the reviews are mostly up to his midpoint chapter. Anon De Plumme wants to get to his final edited version and ship it off to potential agents/publishers but needs those reviews. Anon De Plumme POSTS A REQUEST on our forums asking if anyone can push their secondary reviews--the one after the required one done at the member's own volition--to his novel. Jube sees the posted request and thinks--why not? Anon De Plumme has faithfully kept up his end of the group's commitment and put in solid reviews for each designated member during the required rotation time, and Jube still is going to get points in any case. Subsequently, Jube puts in a review or more for Anon De Plumme's novel before the next 20 day rotation arrives.

Essentially, this is nothing new from something mentioned early on at the group's formation where you could after putting in your required review, then go and review anyone in or out of this group until it became time for the next member up.

But, we cannot READ MINDS. You need to post a request and not hope through extraterrestrial WIFI your wish will be transmitted to the rest of us.

1. Post a request for additional review help because you are near or at the end of your novel--this includes revisions. It's fine to ask us to go back to say chapter 1-4 and review those revised versions. The key is for you to be specific on your request and indicate exactly which chapters you need reviewed. For example, "Please review my revised chapter 1, chapter 5, and chapters 22-45."

2. I would suggest if you are going to help then employ *leap-frogging*. What I mean by this is that because these are all optional reviews out of the goodness of your heart, there is no need to do reviews in order. In the above example, if I see Alchemi has reviewed chapter 22, and Randy has reviewed chapter 23, and Stephanie has reviewed chapter 24, I can leapfrog over them and review chapter 25. This will be faster and more beneficial in providing reviews to work with to the writer. But, Jube? We then have to familiarize ourselves with the chapters in between when we leapfrog, don't we? Hey, by now as a novelist and reviewer it's a given that your reading and comprehension speed is greater than the average reader. It's only going to take you minutes to read through a chapter when you don't have to review it to pick up the salient points for understanding what is going on until you reach your review chapter. No one expects you to pummel yourself trying to get through 20 chapters in a few days of reading. Just do the best you can up to the point you are comfortable with if you choose to help.

3. I'd ask that you only post such a request if you are at least at or beyond the 75% point of your chapter. In a three act structure, this is usually the final conflict or climax point of your plot.

4. You can also message me and/or when I see such a request, I will use the message to all group member function to let everyone know. I don't even know if that's a function only reserved for the group founder, so if you see it on your screen feel free to use it yourself smile

I think that covers it. The only downside I could see is redirecting your secondary and other reviews can negatively impact your reciprocal review relationships with others on this site. But at least this way, you are still in control of when and what help you choose to provide.