Author David Eddings is best known for his medieval-style fantasy book series: The Belgariad (5 books) & The Malloreon (5 books) series. In my opinion, he is an incredibly skilled author in particular with his deep world building skill and the only such author that can incorporate Old Middle English in his writing as needed. Yes, he actually has a Lancelot-type knight character who only speaks in Middle English for dialogue (well, his king and countrymen all do as well but they are minor appearances in the series) while the rest of the supporting characters speak modern English. He also has the longest prologue you will ever read in a fantasy novel, or maybe any novel by that token.

Anyway, look at how different he sees his writing from how others see him -- "If I could figure out a way to persuade Barbara Cartland to refer to her books as something else I'd do it," asserts David Eddings. "Because the technically correct term for what I'm writing is romance. My work is a direct outgrowth of medieval romance and I, unlike Tolkien, adore Tennyson, and Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur."

Eddings, whose Belgariad, Malloreon, Elenium and Tamuli series have gained him international bestseller status, began reading fantasy and sf at around 13. "When I was perhaps 17 I started writing," he says, "but dabbling in fantasy never really occurred to me. Well, I did do one or two short stories in the science-fiction mode in my mid-20s, but didn't like them all that much. They didn't work, maybe because I have no science training whatsoever. I think I know the formula for water and I believe I know Newton's Third Law. That's about as far as it goes. I'm horribly incompetent at anything mechanical, and mathematically I'm inept. Which is why my wife balances the cheque books."

I thought it was fascinating to know that although he's been likened to Tolkien and other giant fantasy authors, he sees his works as primarily romance at the heart of his series.

Not a TNBW item for discussion, nor a SOLN approved topic--I know, but the following shows so much about how to speak with a forked tongue while keeping a straight face:

CDC Director Robert Redfield made the following brilliant statements today about children returning to school *during* the pandemic asap and *before* any inoculation would be given to the little tikes--possibly worthy of a Nobel Prize:

1. “All schools should remain open. It is the safest place for children to be.”

2. He exclaimed that following the data shows “there has been no intra-school transmission and we must make sure not to make emotional decisions when the data strongly supports making sure schools remain open.” *** Here's the funny thing about statistics. We all know how often cause and effect applies through our lives, but in the world of statistics, one often reverses the flow from effect to cause for an agenda. It happens all the time in order to maximize benefits or goal achievement. As an example, my statistics show that handgun shootings are far more lethal than being struck by lightning. If you look at my statistics, you'll see an overwhelming number of those killed by gunfire as opposed to lightning strikes. Therefore, I can conclude for you that your chances of survival are greater by taking head on a lightning stroke carrying its typical average of 1 billion volts and anywhere from 10,000 to 200,000 amps of electricity than a bullet. Hmm, I wonder if you get vaporized will I need to count you in the statistics?

Because the vast majority of children are kept out of harm's way since March (homebound) to avoid direct contact with Covid-19, it shouldn't need a brain surgeon like Ben Carson to figure out why the statistics composing the number of children infected and/or died are so much lower than that of adults. By the way, there are more adults than children nationwide, and the adults are more much more likely to be in higher risk situations than children--or we can go with the bizarre idea that children are highly resistant to the virus (see effect to cause rationalization from the world of statistics).

Now, a couple of months ago Los Angeles Unified School District Superintendent Austin Beutner made this statement paraphrased: We need to promote contact tracing on a wide scale to safeguard the school children. By bringing the children back to school, it will provide *a perfect petri-dish for the virus*, and we'll have an abundant number of subjects for contact tracing. *** A bit more on who Beutner is - he was handed the position for unknown reasons and has no experience in education or the administration of such. His accomplishments include leading a large investment banking firm back in New York City for a number of years that made him a billionaire several times over. When he came over and became a California resident, he took the helm of the Los Angeles Times news media and was subsequently asked to leave by the board of directors for unknown reasons. A month ago, the same news media discovered that LAUSD has given all of its Covid-19 testing business to a single lab company. That company only came into existence three months ago and the owner of the lab is the founder of internet giant Earthlink, as well as a good friend of Beutner. So, would Beutner be attempting to push kids back into an environment where they can be infected via the "perfect petri-dish" in order to flush a lot of testing business to his fellow billionaire and good buddy? Perish the thought! That would mean he is trading children lives for cash for his friend, and everyone knows the more wealth you accumulate, the higher your ethical pyramid will grow.

In conclusion, if the nation follows the advice of both of these brilliant men (Redfield + Beutner), we can significantly expand our virus data a.k.a contact tracing on children (including kindergartners) and provide far more safety against the virus by placing them back in school versus being homebound for the small price of thousands of children lives, not counting those that survive and are crippled for life (permanent respiratory damage, brain damage equivalent to the brain aging 10 years, amputation from blood clotting, etc.) Of course, those that escape the more severe effects will only be carriers to take it back to their family members.

It is clear how well thought out such concepts are by both of these intellectual giants. And yes, they were able to say all this while keeping a straight face on camera.

Jeez, I guess I'll post here first to get the ball rolling. I completed a review on Matthew Abelack's chapter 4 for Humanity's Abyss book 2. My review also included my trademark long summary that makes one wonder if I wanted to write a chapter on the spot - lengthy anecdotes provided as well.

You can start posting here after completing a review and see the updated rotation list. Over time, we've lost Stefanie and Suin, so the list went from 8 members to 6.

1. Matthew Abelack
2. Randall Krzak
3. C J Driftwood
4. Jube
5. Alkemi
6. NJC

If you need to reference any past notations of reviews you've completed, you can still see them on the original listing. I'll leave the older topic heading of completed reviews *closed*, but it should still be viewable if necessary. Let me know if there's any objections to doing that.

Ah, The Hobbit. Now that's one where we worry about how to get over a hill, yet Tolkien had to climb a mountain. If I remember right, The Hobbit was originally banned from America and only got to American readers via being smuggled into the country. Tolkien also said he originally was only going to have The Hobbit published and not write any sequels, but it became so popular in England that he acquiesced to the pressure for more.

The religious views and *moral enforcement* by clergy and related figures back then were very strong. The Hobbit was viewed as trying to twist Christianity since it was written while involving some Christian symbolism and references to the bible. I didn't pick up on them until it was pointed out by researchers and the like. For example, Gandalf is a representation of an angel. He is tasked with watching over mankind and keeping it from being snuffed out by the forces of evil (Sauron). The ring and the other ones are representations of heavenly power.

In more modern times, I've seen and heard of flak still being thrown at Tolkien. A Southern California professor was filmed on video while lecturing to her class that Tolkien was racist. His *good* characters are light-skinned or represented as "white" and the evil are represented as dark in appearance (orcs, trolls, Balron, goblins, etc.) Gandalf is a lesser wizard when he is "Gandalf the Gray" and becomes a more perfect model when he returns as "Gandalf the White". Gandalf also rides non-white horses in his less glorified state, but rides a white horse when in his elevated state.

Even years after his passing, Tolkien's LOTR made into a movie received condemnation. In 2001, New Mexico there was a book burning event declaring LOTR was a product of witchcraft since it dealt with magical creatures and such. Some school organizations advised parents to keep their children from watching LOTR movies because there was too much violence and disturbing references counter to traditional religious values in America.

Somewhere in the earlier posts, I once posted a copy from an editor blog that outlines the "acceptable" limits by word count for different genres. For fantasy, it's generally accepted that the limit goes higher because of the necessary details and world building that other genres don't have to deal with, so around 185K words is the limit.

For myself, I always knew that my novel wasn't going to fit in this box as it's more of an epic story than a condensed one. Brandon Sanderson is a ray of sunshine for this topic - he and a few others have managed to break this rigidity with publishers and hopefully provide more flexibility on their part. Sanderson was working as a desk clerk when he finally was contacted by TOR (one of the "big 5" publishing giants). They had his 400K word manuscript for several months before an editor finally read it and fell in love with it. Sanderson has gone on to win several prestigious novel awards (including the prized Hugo Award for best novella) and even got another nearly 400k novel published by TOR (The Way of Kings).

It's hard to say what's in the mind of some publishers versus others, just like it is for people. I know that if you write a very good and compelling story, most readers, including a good number of editors, won't close the book because it reached a certain word count. I can't imagine how the face of a publishing CEO would look if he found out his editors tossed out the first novel of Game of Thrones because it had a nearly 300K word count. In fact, there's supposed to be a number of publishers that felt like jumping off the building after knowingly rejecting Harry Potter, book 1, though she wrote within the acceptable limits (I think it's around 80K word count).

On my to do list for reviews: 1. I've got another review to complete for Alkemi's novel left, 2. I'll be responding back to the edits from CJ's recent review on my novel, and 3. I'll review Matthew's latest chapter that's out.

Okay. I thought you were considering pulling the book from group reviews because of what I said. From the mechanics viewpoint, your chapters are easy to review: good sentence structures, mostly active-voiced lines, no misses on spelling, good grammar, and short chapters.

I have noticed you are using more dialogue interplay (it seems to me than before) to usher in a better dramatic effect, and I completely agree with that approach. See which one shows an angry character but is more impactful (narrative vs dialogue) -- Jack was angry at Cheryl and when she walked into the room, he chastised her without pause. vs Jack turned around at the sound of someone walking into the room. "There you are--you damn bitch! Do you know how much you screwed me over, Cheryl?"

I used an angry Jack example because it's easier to illustrate my point, but I do see your current writing uses the latter over the former, so that's all good. But as Stephen King says, you can use dialogue to bond the reader to the characters, but it's narrative that you need to move the story forward. Thus, chapter 7 of TREA was giving me a rough time because of not only the feeling of having Dan versus a concept instead of an organization or person, but also it kicks off with about 7 paragraphs of narrative. If you had a mix of dialogue and narration, then I think it would go over better there. Say someone bursts into his apartment while Dan is listening to reports on TV and begins to dialogue with him. It would be up to you if the uninvited friend actually made things worse for Dan from what they said about Global Warming, or mirrored his thoughts in conversing with him.

I just don't feel comfortable in pointing at something that *could* cause a Jenga puzzle collapse if the author agreed with it and moved to make such changes. I don't see how to restructure the antagonist aspect without causing a whole rewrite that pervades through all 22 chapters. On the other hand, I didn't want to just toss out some cookie cutter prosaic statement like: "Good chapter and great story, Alkemi. Stay the course and looking forward to the final chapter!" which I don't think would be of much help other than waving palm palms.

I should just point at 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea for our discussion. Pretend that Jules Verne wanted to bring attention to whaling and the misuse of ocean resources. If he writes about a protagonist that crusades against such things (an ancient representative of Greenpeace), then I think the story has an uphill battle to gain reader interest. Man vs concept. Instead, he uses Captain Nemo and his vaunted submarine as the antagonist.

Look at this interplay between Ned (a whale harpooner by trade) and Captain Nemo:
Captain Nemo watched the troop of cetacea playing on the waters about a mile from the Nautilus. "They are southern whales," said he; "there goes the fortune of a whole fleet of whalers."
"Well, sir," asked the Canadian, "can I not chase them, if only to remind me of my old trade of harpooner?"
"And to what purpose?" replied Captain Nemo; "only to destroy! We have nothing to do with the whale-oil on board."
"But, sir," continued the Canadian, "in the Red Sea you allowed us to follow the dugong."
"Then it was to procure fresh meat for my crew. Here it would be killing for killing's sake. I know that is a privilege reserved for man, but I do not approve of such murderous pastime. In destroying the southern whale (like the Greenland whale, an inoffensive creature), your traders do a culpable action, Master Land. They have already depopulated the whole of Baffin's Bay, and are annihilating a class of useful animals. Leave the unfortunate cetacea alone. They have plenty of natural enemies—cachalots, swordfish, and sawfish—without you troubling them."

Nemo is the story's villain, but like Ricardo Montalban said, Nemo doesn't see himself as a villain. He's the only one who can protect the ocean from a barbarous and pillaging species known as mankind. Nemo's acts are villainous, though he doesn't see himself as such.

This is also a villain that can directly interact with the protagonist, chastise him for his hunting of whales, and also gives the protagonist an achievable goal - stop Nemo and he stops the villain (or is Nemo the martyr here? Depends on your ideals). Nemo also has a definable goal - sink enough ships and kill enough sailors, humans will pull back their voracious hands from the whales and such.

I haven't ever considered what books would be unsuited for the review group and this is reflected in the fact that there never were requirements mentioned other than it beng a novel. Thinking it over now, I would say historical fiction that is heavy on past events isn't going to go over well because group members aren't going to be quasi-historians that can fact check a novel like that. Likewise, an erotica novel isn't going to fly here since we tend to be more on the conservative side, and I've already seen that basic romance novels weren't well received let alone something like the former. Probably, if we had to consider a list of unsuited novels, we'd reject children books aimed at say 3 to 7-year-olds.

Hence, In my mind, there was never a problem with your TREA novel or Souring Seas as an idea--it was just the antagonist representation I was focusing on as a significant issue in my mind. I'm simply trying to help you try to mold it to catch the most readers it can. Comments from reviewers like: "Great job, Alkemi, the novel is headed the right way so keep it up!" might be how the reviewer really feels or might be just giving out positive reinforcement--call me cynical. A review group should be able to speak to the good and could be better factors of a novel, else the group isn't for review--it then becomes a group of mature members trying to shamefully squeeze into high school cheerleader outfits and shake their palm palms at you while cheering with all their might (I bastardized this saying from one of Stephen King's quotes).

All novels, no matter the genre, have to hit certain marks to reach their potential in attracting readers.

I mentioned the part about considering applying (and it's still just my opinion in the end) my ideas to a future book because that's a pretty harsh thing to suggest that someone toss 22 chapters into a grinder and remake the remains into new content. Again, what if I'm the only one who thinks that it's a real problem? Check with others to gauge this.

I should have asked this sometime ago, but what kind of audience do you want to reach, Alkemi? Here's an unasked for anecdote of what I mean: Years ago, I got into an argument with a climate change proponent. At the time, there was yet another significant Jihad terrorist attack against the U.S. and in the end, he declared that the endangerment to the environment was of more importance than addressing terrorism. This is the kind of reader that doesn't care about what I said for a villain. He's going to thumbs up your novel just the way it is, and he's not alone out there. But in the end, I believe such readers still constitute a very small niche compared to the whole of the reading community. As such, the question is do you want to write a novel that reaches as many readers as it can (casual readers, knowledgeable readers, niche` readers), or are you fine with a niche of readers? I've been reviewing your novels with the former in mind.

To conclude, I think if you feel this is a topic worth considering for your current or any future novels, check with maybe around 8-10 others that have read all or some of your current novel and ask for their honest opinion on what I said about the antagonist issue in your novel. If only I think this way, then you can dismiss my comments. If you get others that agree, then it can only help you to know of this.

On another note, I'm going to be a bit harsh -- suggesting your novel isn't reviewable following my line of reasoning makes me think of "You don't like the way I threw the ball? I'm taking my ball and going home".

Only NJC in this group might be aware of how harsh the review comments (paraphrased) I got were when I first starting posting my chapters, so here's some examples lest you think what comes around doesn't go around ---

1. Jube, after reviewing your first few chapters, this is what I can conclude. You don't know how to form a story and you lack the writing skills to even express your story well enough in its broken state. I also got the feeling you play a lot of Dungeons & Dragons? Is your novel a wishful projection of some sort of gaming on your part? --- reviewer sample 1 from the time before the new TNBW site was created.

2. What can I say? I can't even understand your story after reading four chapters into it. You don't know how to separate paragraphs, you don't know how to use dialogue tags, and I bet you don't even understand my comments, right? Also, you should go and learn what asterisks are, so you can separate your scenes, assuming I correctly saw one. The last thing I'll add is that I never saw a plot trigger. Let me explain what that is because if I don't, you'll never know what I'm talking about. It means by the fourth chapter, or earlier, I should see something that hints or portends of a story that's going to embroil your main character. Since that's missing, along with all the other things, it's best you hire a writer if you really want to see this novel to completion. --- reviewer sample 2 also from the prior TNBW website.

3. Commas are useful parts of grammar, and you should learn when and where to use them. I found myself marking so many missing commas that I'm wondering if you managed to go through all the required schooling without encountering them? I can tell you have a good story to tell here, but you can't put the words together so others can understand it. It feels like someone is telling me a good story in a foreign language. --- reviewer from TNBW old site.

4. Let me first say, I'm sorry. Yes, I'm sorry that I wasted my time reading your first 2 chapters. You should also be sorry for subjecting me to them. --- reviewer from a different writing site before I came to TNBW (writing.com).

5. Interesting! No, not your novel. It's interesting to see your reply back to me. So you want me to give you a specific reason why I thought your novel sucked? Okay, you spend to much time describing the scenery and how the characters from main ones to minor ones look. The story just sits and spins while you do this. If I liken your novel to a moving car, it's driving toward a destination, but it's bottoming out all over the place while going over a road with a lot of humps in it. Your car will never reach its destination because it will be torn apart from underneath before then. Be careful of what you ask for, you might not like what comes back your way smile --- reviewer from writing.com

I've omitted citing the ones that advised me to give up and stop writing. I put some of these here, so you, Alkemi, can see that I'm still writing my novel despite criticism that I think is far more deflating than what I had to say. My starting point was also much lower than the rest of you, this is why I had to rewrite my first chapter over 30 damn times. Nowadays, I revise current chapters about 2-3 times, which is a far cry from early on. And yes, I still can't write short responses as you can see.

Some thoughts of mine on your current novel - The Road to Environmental Armageddon (TREA).

I normally start a review by copy/pasting the chapter onto a word doc so that I can read it easier (can enlarge text, highlight, etc.) and run my Grammarly as a backup set of eyes to my own for anything I might miss (grammar, spelling, etc.) This time, after doing all that, I was still was left staring at my next TREA chapter review (ch.7) on and off for a few days now without being able to get going on it. This hasn't happened to me before, but it hit me on this one what I think I've been sensing since "Souring Seas".

The chapter that's currently befuddling me begins with 7 paragraphs of narration that portrays various governments and their reactions to Global Warming and therein lies what I now believe is the albatross that's tied itself to you all this time, Alkemi. Forgive the caps but I feel it's imperative to emphasize my epiphany over this point: YOUR VILLAIN IS A CONCEPT VS AN EMOTIONAL FLESH AND BLOOD ENTITY. When a villain is unemotional, external, and lacks the ability to emotionally interact with the protagonists, the writing course is going to be like trying to sail between Scylla & Charybdis.

One of the best explanations of what I'm trying to say can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tP5tZ_ekXs from the late Ricardo Montalban (may he rest in peace). About halfway through my novel, I ran across what he had to say on villains and ever since I've tried to keep it in mind for writing because it's just that good.

Star Trek, quite a long-lived iconic success as science fiction and does many things right (disclaimer: I'm not a "trekkie" and have never been to any conventions). The series is also famous for teaching that splitting infinitives is not a death knell in writing as the beginning caption starts with -- "To boldly go". Okay, back to RM. He's a genius when he stated on getting the best kind of villain in the story goes like this - "A villain doesn't see himself as a villain. He actually thinks he's doing the right thing, but does villainous acts." This was the guiding principle of how RM played his iconic villain role "Khan". To Khan, Admiral Kirk is the villain for marooning them on an abandoned world that led to the death of his beloved wife - Kirk needs to pay for doing such a horrible thing (Khan's PoV). Of course, at some point through his journey for justice / vengeance, Kirk becomes Khan's "white whale", like in Moby Dick, and the obsession to destroy the "villain" makes him more unstable as the movie goes on.

Consequently, the audience just gobbled this up. A strong protagonist, Kirk, against a strong antagonist, Khan, where both are convinced the other is the villain and this can only result in a nail biting struggle between them. But do you think you can draw out reader emotions like that when the "villain" is a non-corporeal, concept - Global Warming? You wouldn't want to at this point try to declare that's not a villain in your novels because it just leads you into the trap of having to admit you really don't have a villain at all. A story with no villain and/or hero is dead on arrival and we all know that - no one on here is a newbie to writing.

That YouTube video (just under 4 minutes long, I think) also has Ricardo Montalban recounting the dilemma the producers faced in the beginning. He said they went back through the archive of films and examined one villain after another from different episodes, then settled on a "machine AI", a computerized star ship that was hellbent on killing Kirk (I think I remember what episode they are referring to on this). But the producers realized in the end the difficulty bar was way too high to use it as a villain. How do you get an unemotional antagonist to pull out raw emotions of your audience? How can a thing that doesn't hate, love, like, dislike, become vengeful, become forgiving, etc. interact in terms of emotions with the others in the story? Hence, they correctly veered course to Khan and called up RM.

This is why I believe the villain is a significant problem for your novels on Global Warming / Climate Change. I would suggest building a villain with the following in mind that incorporates some or all of what RM said.

Global Warming Villain:
1. Use a flesh and blood person (probably someone with great authority) or maybe more than one (a group). This immediately allows you to have the villain(s) interact with your characters using emotions and emotional outcomes.
2. Your villain(s) thinks that by helping promote Global Warming they are doing the right thing. Examples of their thoughts: Maybe they feel by causing a third or up to a half of the world's population to die off, this will be something that qualifies them for sainthood. They are saving the planet from being overrun by humans - not enough food and too many mouths to feed. Maybe they want to implement a version of herd immunity - usher in Global Warming and the survivors will be the naturally selected humans to go on. This in turn will allow a more hardy species of humans to continue populating the Earth. There's plenty more examples, but I think the point is made.

You already have 22 chapters finished for TREA, so I think these are things to consider for your next novel. I certainly would not suggest making such a major change that is going to effectively cause a rewrite of 22 chapters.

The last item I want cover in the hopes it will be of some help to you is drama vs reality. Most, if not all, of the best sellers we would read can't possibly have that many things go wrong in the time frame of the story here in our world of reality. And the readers say to this - So? Who cares? I've been living in reality all my life, so why do I want to come home after school or work and read about reality? But there's a fine line between creating the dramatic and going overboard, I think of the horrible movie that I'm glad a family member turned the channel away from before it was too late - Sharknado. Tornadoes sucking up sharks and dropping them inland on hapless victims is certainly dramatic, but it clearly went overboard. A concept of a killer Bigfoot that terrorizes hikers would be pooh-pooed by most inhabitants of reality rules, but it has a lot more reality than you think behind it. Thousands of years of legends, paintings, and witnessing of these cryptozoological creatures by American Indians, Tibetians, and ancient peoples in other parts of Asia lead to a hefty amount of historical evidence.

Thus, we should all be willing to consider using for our stories things that are *unlikely" over *can't happen*.

So I put all this up here because your line writing structure never needed much help, and even less now that software editors are available to us all. It's pulling out reader emotions that you need to work on. As an example, I like to read for learning purposes mostly, Chinese fantasy novels. Why? Well, aside from terrible information dumps, repetition after repetition, and constantly interrupting action with expository, these Chinese authors do something better than western writers do -- they can emotionally invest readers like nobody's business. A young and loving married couple are on the outskirts of the big city when they stop to help a nearly blind old farmer harvest some of her crop that has matured. At this point, you (the reader) like this married couple and feel they are quite morally upright and it's no wonder they are in love with each other since they resemble one another in values. Soon after, they enter the big city for the first time because they need to buy medicine for some sick villagers back in their village. They walk a short distance down the main road and are confronted by a half dozen burly armed men with a young man in colorful robes directing them. The young nobleman tosses a pouch filled with coins at the husband. He catches the pouch and asks, "Why did you toss this to me?" / "I've taken a liking to your wife, and the money is so you don't say I cheated you," the nobleman says and motions to his bodyguards to seize the woman. "Don't worry. Once I tire of riding her, I'll let her go or sell her into slavery to get some of that money back."/ The husband is furious and says, "I don't know a lot about the city, but I know if I report you, it won't end well for you!" / The nobleman sneers. "Yes, go report me and don't forget to tell them I'm the only son of the governor of this city." *** This is the kind of thing these writers are good at doing. They can make you, as the reader, feel sorry for the couple and despise the young nobleman for his unreasonable and ruthless conduct. It's not realistic, but it could happen and more importantly, it tugs at your emotions as the reader.

To me, this is why your emotional tugging on the reader needs to be done primarily through dialogue while your narration is mostly used when the scene needs to be set for the reader. Flesh and blood villains and heroes are a must for this. Global Warming can be the weapon they use, but the villain can't be seen to be the GW itself.

I'll add on here and promise not to further beat up on SOLN's point system in this post. Let's take a look at the kinds of reviews available on TNBW as a worthwhile topic:

1. Superficial review -- This is the kind of review anyone can do, even an automated program. One needs to only highlight some missing grammar (commas, misspelled words, typos, etc.) and a smattering of word choices. Hell, you can now even just let a grammar software program do most of the work for you! Usually, there's no mention of awkward lines, out of order narratives, plot holes, redundancy, passive vs active sections, information dumps, or dull/boring expository as items for the writer to address. Pros: These reviews are quick and easy and can be completed in as little as 10 minutes after reading the chapter. In addition, you can wrack up a lot of easy points by making the minimum number of edits and cover a good number of different writers in the process. Cons: Those higher level reviewers that can look over your work with a fine-toothed comb and give you a review equal to or near the quality of a freelance editor aren't stupid and will notice you only offer these kind of reviews in return. They will either severely scale down their return review to match your lackadaisical effort or not return the review at all. (I had one such writer do this and tossed me a 5-7 edit review on three different occasions--I ignored the bait). Therefore, it can be seen a review group is useful to avoid this kind of imbalance as long as the members themselves aren't guilty of microwaving vs cooking the story.

2. Intermediate level review -- For review groups, this is the most common kind. It's a mix between pointing out the obvious things and some not so obvious noteworthy items. You might think this could be a problem if such a reviewer isn't catching a high percentage of fish with his reviewer net for you, but this is where the group would shine. One reviewer will miss some fish--sure--but a group of them will collectively spot most or all the fish you need caught. Pros: If you offer this kind of review, you are entitled to expect the same in return and such a review is surely more useful to you than a superficial one. Reviewing in this manner will also keep the recipient from mentally dropping a lump of coal in your Christmas stocking vs a superficial review. That said, your halo will become more noticeable to the recipient of your review. Cons: This review obviously takes longer and requires more energy from you. Such reviews are accumulated at a slower rate, so your overall points will not rise as quickly.

3. The line-by-line reviewer: This reviewer can catch all items that the previous two levels can and then some. Did you forget your MC was using a spear in the early chapters and now you mistakenly have him using a sword? This reviewer will remember and point it out to you. You forgot your story was set in the 1980's, and you have your character doing an internet search on google ("googling")? This reviewer will remind you that there was no available internet to the general populace back then, nor did Google start up as a company in that time period--its creators were still in school at that time. You described 30 movements for your character to go from one room to the next. This reviewer will give you an example using 2 or 3 movements to describe the same effect. You have *invisible*, never before described characters in the scene, no visual cues or descriptions. You're only narrating what they are doing. This kind of reviewer will tell you when your characters need a bit of fleshing out so the reader can imagine how they look. Pros and Cons are obvious in terms of time consumption and reciprocation expectation.

4. "The Reviewer" -- It was a cloudy and humid day when Gandalf arrived in the village of dangling participles. Upon receiving some directions from a few grammarians, he quickly found your hovel (shaped like a comma) and banged his staff on the front door as though trying to break it in. The loud and sudden bashing rang throughout your home, causing you to drop your breakfast bowl (cereal shaped like commas). After glowering at the shattered bowl pieces and cereal strewn across the floor, you rushed to the door and flung it open. Gandalf explained how he traveled far and long on his trusty unicorn to find you. An ancient tome has recently been uncovered and is thought to contain many hidden truths about creation and the world as you know it. He asks you to review the tome and put it in order to the best of your ability so that everyone can read and understand it.

The other grammarians have gathered around your hovel, whispering and pointing at Gandalf. Everyone knew why he had come to find you. Back in the day, there was no work of literature that could not be improved under your eyes. The number of grateful writers could give rise to a city in your name. Indeed, there were some who traveled the lands at your side and shooed away many would be admirers by saying, "Stand aside, lest your shadow fall across The Reviewer and dim his light."

Pros: These kind of reviews are rare and look at everything in a line by line manner. Just one of these kind of reviews can help your chapter more than 100 of the first kind. A sample of the items this kind of review covers would be: line construction (too wordy--too little, redundancy, monotonous passages, where lines in a section are roughly the same length causing a droning effect on reading, mixing verb tenses, adverb and verb placement in relation to subject or word modified, vernacular level consistency, etc.). An ongoing sense of plot progression to where the reviewer can inform the writer of slow downs, speed ups, ho-hum climaxes vs explosive ones, stereotype events, etc. The reviewer knows the audience for your genre and can tell you when you're on track for what your kind of reader is looking for and when you're off track. You get that sinking feeling from seeing this kind of reviewer's editing that if they had to--really had to for some reason--they could re-write your chapter better than your original by keeping what works and replacing what doesn't. Cons: This kind of review is a huge time sink and can take hours to complete for a chapter. However, if you turn out solid, nearly bulletproof chapters, even this kind of reviewer won't have much to do and will in that case not experience a time sink. This kind of reviewer will naturally favor slanting most of their reviews toward the same kind of reviewer, so if anyone else wants to join the party, then they need to be able to bring the good stuff and not just pretzels.

I think it was Ray Bradbury who once said that the best way to learn how to write good novels was by writing a lot of short stories first. I say he's wrong. The best way to improve your ability to write a good novel is to improve your ability to do a good review. The stronger reviewer you are, the stronger your writing will be. When you're really good at telling others how to run thru a gauntlet of outraged vegetarians with a Big Mac hanging from your mouth, you'll be able to easily run past them as well.

For myself, I'm mostly concentrating my reviews on CJ's novel. The reason is very simple--I get 3rd level type reviews from her, and I want to show my appreciation by reciprocating any of my off-scheduled reviews to her. That doesn't mean I've forgotten to review Alkemi or Randy's novels. As CJ said, I won't be able to keep up with Randy's output, so when I do review his work, I tend to do a batch of chapters all in one go. But the original agreement was to do roughly a reciprocation of equal number of points/review every 21 days or so. I know Randy isn't questioning that so much as he just wants to know if there are remaining people to participate.

I finished all of Matthew's novel, so if there's anything new novels that he dives into, I'll get to it for sure.

Once again, I"m running a line marathon here but if you're still with me, I'd also like to point out NJC's reviews are definitely in that 3rd level and it's worth trying to swing his expertise your way. Unfortunately, like the rest of us his time is like a broken piggy bank--all kinds of hands have reached out for his time currency, so he doesn't have much left to allocate to reviews lately.

Ahem, I'm going to be a little blunt here regarding my reviews. The value of any review is, of course, in the eye of the beholder. If you think my review is worth receiving, then try to provide some evidence of that. When I get a reply back from my review that's a good thing and we all expect the same. But when I see not a single response to any edit I made (it always shows a "1" and never a "2" unless I mistakenly made a double edit) and a generalized thank you in the summary, why would I feel my time was appreciated? It sure looks like it wasn't. My reviews are worth the same as some speed reviewer out on TNBW that spends all of 10-15 minutes on a sizeable chapter? Heh, maybe so! The same thing has happened when I've done some infrequent outside group reviews, so maybe everyone just is busy and can't respond. I don't expect a response to every edit I create, just some of them to let me know it's been read and considered.

As for my novel? It's clear only CJ and NJC have continued reviewing my chapters. The ugly truth is it could be my story is just unappealing as to why the rest of the group ceased reviewing for chapters in the 20's and 30's (btw, I'm halfway done with my latest chapter 54). I can only hope when I finish and send it for publishing, others will look upon it as something interesting.

Douglas Stack's novel stolen from this site and sold to the Nigerian ebook publisher worried me enough to deactivate a large cross section of my existing chapters. SOLN's mute response and look the other way attitude scared me even more. Therefore, if you want to review any of my "missing" chapters, just let me know what range and I'll activate it, then take it down after your done. My idea is if the same thief, or a different one, wants to steal my story, then they'll be missing around 35 chapters toward that effort.

Jumped right on the land mine with both feet first. Well, you and I discussed this in messages a while ago, so I'm guessing your question is more aimed at inquiring of any remaining members. Still, I'll take the opportunity to provide some of the background that most here are unaware of.

Originally, myself and Matthew Abelack had discussed how difficult it was to get reviews, especially from the same reviewers who could stick with the story as it progresses. Hence, the idea of forming a review group came out of this.

It was certainly going to just remain at the "grumbling" level until I got a message from a fellow pen named "Cobber" who was convinced a review group was going to be formed and wanted to join. With three TNBW members interested in being part of a review group, it meant we had to seriously consider forming one and leave the grumbling stage behind.

The three of us, and everyone else who subsequently joined, were all experienced in how things go in life, so we all knew that leading the group was going to be a hot potato. The group lead has to try to keep everything and everyone on track (hopefully a track that leads in a direction everyone wants to go), yet doesn't have any authority to push any member(s) back on track if it appears necessary. After all, members are members on a voluntary basis; no one is an employee, so as a group lead just be glad they were willing to join, right?

And in the end, one of my biggest disappointments turned out to be the very same person who pushed the hardest for the formation of the review group--Cobber. After getting some member messages about him, you have no idea how I felt when I checked his reviews from his profile and discovered he had shifted almost entirely to reviewing those outside the review group AFTER his novel was finished with our inside help. It reminds me of the Chinese 36 stratagems, in particular, number 12-- "Take the Opportunity to Pilfer a Goat."

On a different note, these are some of the kinds of complaints and things mentioned to me in messages over the course, so you can get an idea of how rocky it could get at times keeping the peace: 1. Nom De Plume is late again on their reviews. Can you say something to them? 2. Nom De Plume hasn't been active in the group for a long while now. Maybe you should consider dropping them and recruiting a replacement? 3. I don't like Nom De Plume's genre, and I have to push myself each time just to review a chapter; it's not a genre I would read on my own. 4. An inch to a mile! I give a very thorough review, sometimes taking a few hours of my time, and in return I get a smattering of simple edits from Nom De Plume! I don't believe I'm so good a writer that nothing more can be evaluated for improvement with less than a dozen edits. Nom De Plume is obviously just doing a tiny bit more than an editing software and expecting a high quality review in return (this was a common complaint, btw.) 5. It's hard to stay in a rhythm for reviews because some write new chapters too fast while others write them too slow.

There were also good ones lest anyone think it was all just doom and gloom: 1. The reason I stay in the review group is because there some outstanding reviewers. I really don't think I could pay for an editor that could do a better job. 2. I like how our members are seasoned and used to each other's styles. There's no way anyone else on this site can jump in and know all that is going on with my novel from the beginning like our group members do. 3. The writing level of our members is advanced. You can tell when you read their prose that no one's struggling to learn how to write for the first time. After all is said and done, I do think it was worth forming the group. Yes, everyone got different amounts of sugar out of this stalk of cane but that's to be expected.

<Here, I'm going to vent some> Ultimately, to me, the whole problem with needing review groups and dealing with the inherent problems that come with such things is because SOLN's current review system simply sucks. I have posted a quickee to him before that his point system favors beginning chapters but soon becomes useless once a writer's chapters advance to the middle or end stage of their book. Why should John Doe review 30-50 of your chapters when he can get the same points from reviewing anyone? Because you will return the favor? But what if, and that's extremely likely, you both don't review each other to the same degree of effort and satisfaction? This is why I proposed to SOLN to *reverse* his current methodology and have his system assign a greater weight of points at different stages for a writer doing reviews. For example, I review your first 10 chapters and they are weighted with the standard points they are set with currently. From chapters 11-20, the system identifies me as a continuing reviewer of your work and grants me bonus points for each chapter in this phase I review. Then, the bonus points are increased in the next phase and so on until I reach the end of your book. His answer? Let's do a short story contest to resuscitate the flagging interest overall. No, SOLN. Members join TNBW to get reviews, not to read stories. Did you forget your website's statement about quality reviews available at just a membership price? It doesn't say join and you can read other writer's stories, does it? His contests should actually be over who can turn in the best review, not who can write the best short story. The man has actually forgotten which road to walk.

Bleh, my attempted post was mysteriously wiped out when I clicked "Submit", so I'll redo it here as short as I can.
I've got a problem with one of my paragraphs from chapter 52:

He then pointed his staff, and a barrage of lightning blazed at Silver. Though the lightning could now pierce through the globe of dirtied water around her, Gramsli was still a step too late. Silver had already surrounded herself with another barrier of condensed pure water by the time he finished speaking. The water sizzled and steamed after being struck, but the lightning could not breakthrough.

Is it going to make an electrical engineer shake his/her head, thinking, "Your skipping over a whole bunch of information to go from your cause to effect here." Of course it will. For the rest bear in mind I only have a rudimentary layman's knowledge of electricity no where near that of an EE.

Look at the second line of the paragraph if you would. Yes, it's a very rough explanation of why Gramsli needs to contaminate the pure (deionized) water shield. He needs to fill it with electrolytes and electrocatalysts from the soil in order to have his lightning conduct through the water to his target. The question is --- Do most readers need the explanation of the second line or do you think it's commonly known enough to run without the explanation? If I cut it, then the prose will be better and shorter. If most readers really don't know and need the explanation in this rough form, they will be lost as to "Why does this guy write about pure water shield and throwing dirt into it? What's the deal with the dirt anyways?" if I go and cut it.

Here's what I know about how electricity would apply in this situation. Feel free to comment. Pretend you are Gramsli, a fantasy character in my novel in a battle with two other "magic" masters. It's likely you aren't going to throw out a lightning stroke / bolt on the magnitude of one from a storm (average 30 million volts and 30k amps), but you are going to shoot a bolt that is strong enough to be lethal (I believe it's said to be anything 1.25 amps or more for humans). Your target is surrounded by a deionized water barrier (pure water shield), so the resistance to your current is going to be astronomical. Also, your lightning bolt follows the same principle that governs a natural lightning stroke (LS) hitting water (ocean / lake). Your LS will not run depth-wise when it hits the water barrier; instead, it will radiate across the surface and create step differentials at varying distances from the point of contact. These step differentials will break down the air above them, and the newly created channels will spread the current farther in a radial shape from the contact point. I"m guessing whatever residual reaches the soil at your target's feet will be grounded.

Now, it's true that the higher the resistance, the more heat will be generated from your LS as the electrons encounter and create friction from the resisting water molecules. Then, should your target be worried about being cooked inside their barrier? I think that all depends on how much current you threw at the water shield. I also think if it was on the same order of a storm LS, then your target is going to get electrocuted and fried because the storm's LS is enough overpotential to overcome the deionized water barrier (assume water barrier is 2-3 feet thick vs tens of yards thick).

So do you think that second line is needed for the average reader, or they don't need it and will understand why you (as Gramsli) threw dirt at Silver's water shield before sending an LS at her?

I'm stuck as to guessing the average knowledge of electricity for readers of my genre.

Hmm, a good title to this would be: MY GOVERNOR IS WORSE THAN YOURS.

So, our California state governor announced he plans to put the children back into school by "the end of July". His reason? An amazing vaccine composed of nannite technology that can easily handle the now over 30 different mutation strains of SARS2 (Corona virus a.k.a. Covid-19)? A sure fire antiviral that can target any cell membrane structure of the virus unlike TamiFlu, which only targets the common flu cellular structure and is basically impotent against SARS2? No, none of these reasons. To paraphrase his reason: "The loss of education has reached an intolerable level and we must get the children back into school." Hohoho! What an amazing argument! Let's say the virus presence remains anywhere from 1 to 5 years in the state, so the loss of say 5 years of education is more intolerable to him than the loss of say 50-80 years of life expectancy for elementary school kids to the parents? Yes, to be a governor it seems you don't need to be someone that makes Mensa Society members feel threatened over your I.Q. Anyways, I can't see how he can convince families, so he's going to have to implement something by force or overbearing pressure (another way of saying force) to make the children go back into the classrooms.

Not that it matters, but my opinion of many scientists speaking about SARS2 is definitely sinking to an all time low. Here's an email I sent to a scientist arguing the best protection was a full face shield with built in 3M filters on the front sides, you know, the kind that is locked for sale to only medical and gov't agencies ---

"I've got a similar mask (MSA model with N100 filters) from a couple of years ago, but I don't wear it in favor of a face shield + N95 mask. Why? Because the filters are in front and can be coughed or sneezed on.

"Filters? It's commonly known that the Corona virus, flu virus, cold virus, etc. are all smaller in size than the 2.5 microns or larger that these filters are designed to stop. It's even more difficult to stop if the person is in an enclosed space with forced ventilation (supermarket, classroom, etc.) since the virus when coughed out or sneezed can use the air current to travel much farther distances than in still air and impact with a propelling force behind them.

"This is why as strange as it seems, a $10 PET plastic face shield and N95 mask would offer superior protection than my MSA mask or yours. If you disagree, I'd be interested in what supportive arguments you have."

Other scientists / snollygosters (snollygoster - a very old term not in use today: a person of high intelligence that is devoid of morals and goodness) are arguing for the "herding effect" a polite term for natural selection. Throw enough people together to get some immunes, and then you only need to throw out the dead bodies, no problemo. Will these scientists volunteer to lead by example? Not a chance.

I give it about 1 more month before someone or several members on this site (my bet's on Vern) post that the "current administration" or "Trump" created and released Covid-19, followed by numerous nods of agreement. The entity most happy to see this attitude is China, yes, the actual bad actor in all of this pandemic mess.

Wuhan, China has the only declared bio-weapons lab specializing in viruses. Are there other sites? Maybe, but Wuhan is officially acknowledged as such by China, and, of course, that's where Covid-19 kicked off the lid of Pandora's Box and got out. So, let's connect the dots - Wuhan had the first reported cases and Wuhan has China's only acknowledged bio-weapons lab ... hmm. Oh well, it must be America's fault after all! China is currently singing this song to the world and believes in the adage of the best defense is a great offense.

China has: blamed the U.S. for releasing Covid-19 into the world (the applicable Chinese proverb here is known as "turning black into white") / stated the U.S. should apologize to China (this is the same nation that had regularly demanded Japan to apologize for WW2 and after more than 60 years of such apologies, Japan said enough is enough and quit). / China has threatened to cut off medical supplies, especially antibiotics, to the U.S. / China has a large virtual army of posters on Yahoo, Google and other sites that regularly work to achieve it's goals via propaganda (this was in place long before Covid-19).

Here's what you don't know - Gilead Sciences currently has the best chance of creating an antiviral for Covid-19, think of Tamiflu also now owned by Gilead Sciences, but GS has a number of Chinese nationals on its R&D employee roster. So, whenever a treatment is developed by GS, the first to have the blueprint to it will be ... China. Can you guess the odds that China won't look to re-engineer Covid-19 to resist the GS antiviral? While I believe neither China nor the U.S. intentionally released a virus that would kill their own citizens, along with the rest of the world's population, I do not put it past China to look for a way to develop a resistant strain once GS's antiviral is developed. They will probably believe that lightning won't strike twice in the same spot.

Yes, it should be the kind of strong pause that everyone can agree they would need to make when reading a sentence.

If we say there is a strong pause or strong break, then does that mean the opposite exists? There is a term for weak break or weak interruption, and that's where a lot more confusion will occur. For example, parenthetical phrases are deemed a weak break and U.K. writers, readers, and informative sources will run such a break without the comma. Here's an example from the University of Sussex in England recommending to do just that (I don't agree because I do hear a solid break after "war") ---

"In many cases a weak interruption does not absolutely require bracketing commas. Thus either of the following is fine:

    Shortly before the war, he was living in Paris.
    Shortly before the war he was living in Paris."

What if the question was flipped to what advice or admonishment would Jane Austen have to offer the writers on TNBW?

I really do think that the Italian who implemented the modern comma would be aghast at the current rules for their usage. Everyone knows they are primarily for setting off a pause in the sentence, but many of the current rules have gone beyond that.

Most of the participants on English Stack Exchange are quite skilled in grammar rules, so I believe the original poster was aware of restructuring it that way as well. He deliberately wrote it in a problematic way to try to elicit an answer on the past participle comma rule that was giving him trouble.

For this posting, I swapped his nouns to make it even worse for discussion purposes. Ideally, your "C" is the best way to go, IMO. Not everyone will agree with me, but I've always believed if you can run a short or medium length line without commas, it's generally best to do so. The reading flow moves faster, and the concepts are more compact to the reader that way.

Ahem, if anyone is interested in building up their grammar acumen, I'd suggest visiting this free grammar site that also has interactive exercises that you can do - https://www.chompchomp.com/menu.htm - it's the one I use the most to improve my grammar rule comprehension.

So, is "that also has interactive......" correct? Should I have used *, which has interactive....* instead? Why "So," and not just "So" with no comma?

Okay, maybe I'm the only one that finds all the rules and arguments revolving around the use of commas fascinating. I often take a look at the English Stack Exchange, where they usually have some doozies going on.

Here is one fellow's dilemma, and I thought it was worth posting about. He's agonizing over the usage of past tense participles as restrictive (no comma) or non-restrictive (comma used) and how to figure out which is what.

Before you snicker that you're sparkling new software editor (Grammarly, Whitesmoke, Hemmingway, etc.) will handle it, allow me to shatter your illusions and inform you that there are many situations where those editors can't handle the different comma rules, and so it will just let it all go - meaning it will green light you when using a comma or no comma for the same exact sentence either way. What? Dorothy said that the wizard behind the curtain sometimes goes blind. Oh, no!

So this was one of the examples driving him nuts - except I changed the order of his nouns to make it more fun.
A. The terrorists were captured on the CCTV, threatening people on the streets.
B. The terrorists were captured on the CCTV threatening people on the streets.

Most everyone was trying to make the determination on what sounded better as the guide. However, there are actually comma rules that can handle this for you without you needing to rely on your "ear", which may not quite hear it the same way as the next reader and so on.

His problem here was he tried to view this from a tail wags the dog viewpoint. It's not the verb participle (threatening) that makes the determination. It's the fact that there are two nouns in the line, and a lesser known rule goes in to effect because of this.

*Rule* When you have more than one noun that the verb can link to, a comma is used WHENEVER the linked subject is not directly in front of the participle. In this case, the linked noun is not directly before the participle, and so you would use a comma. By leaving out the comma, you are telling the reader that your verb is intended to modify the noun directly in front of it.

Do you think you'll get the same answer if you used the restrictive, non-restrictive rule? The software editors know better than to even try, so it will let both versions through the gate.

The linked subject or noun location rule would result in example A as correct. However, the restrictive, non-restrictive rule would result in example B as the correct version (restrictive information). See what happens if you only learn the restrictive, non-restrictive rule for participles? In the example line, you can only opt for one version or the other - example A is correct and the one you would use, even though both rules are resulting in different conclusions.

About five paragraphs from the beginning, I used "in to" but why not "into"? Is there a rule governing which one to use? Yes, I picked something that the almighty software editor can't handle either, and it simply tries to have you use "into" for all situations.

Understood, Suin, and I hope all goes well for you.

When this review group was formed, I intentionally wanted to get a range of different genre writers so that each of us could get a look at how other kinds of novels are constructed story-wise. You fulfilled the romance genre very well, and your novel is a great read with an interesting plot. Everyone knows, or should know, that romance novels take the lion's share of readership among all genres, so there's only good things to learning about how such stories are written.

I can only hope it doesn't keep happening. If she didn't message me about it, I wouldn't have known.

On a different topic - there's a new regular member *Nap* that I'm pretty sure is a troll according to his review comments. I'd suggest everyone blocking him now rather than later should he post his inane drivel on your works.

Suin was disbanded from this review group - reason unknown - so I sent another group invite to her.

If anyone else gets disbanded involuntarily please message me for an invite. If it happens again, I'll need to contact SolN and see if he can discover why it would be happening (bug or glitch?).

Raymond Arroyo has the most unfair advantage I've ever seen any novelist have. Yes, life was never fair and likely never will be, but his advantage is just so far over the top I had to vent some here (huff!).

Who is RA? He's a commentator on nationally syndicated Fox News Network and pops up a lot as either the main commentator or guest speaker on everything from politics to religion issues. But what irks me is this chubby Pee-Wee Herman look-alike (I know, don't judge a book by its cover) always plugs his book series at the end of the shows or the commentator plugs it for him.

Yes, that's right. He gets his book series *repeatedly* advertised to millions of viewers across the nation almost day and night. It's like knowing you have to sail your viking ship into battle and the other side is waiting with their new Ford class aircraft carrier.

Sure, maybe his book 3 released this year in the Will Wilder series ranked 1,396 overall on Amazon and #78 for children fantasy books has nothing much to do with such a massive advertising advantage ... then again.

Okay, those were my sour grapes for the guy showing up at a foot race we all have to enter - riding his own motorcycle.

How did he swing such a deal? I can only guess he at one time saved the life of one of the network's higher ups, or he found the remains of Aladdin's lamp - Jinn included.

I haven't seen Al Sharpton plug his book, but I think he has his own show on MSNBC, so I can't imagine he wouldn't. It sure looks like a very small exclusive club of those armed with TV networks for marketing.

I liked how the plot developed for DA, especially the ending. I think it is movie worthy as you can consider special effects eat up a huge amount of a movie's budget, you could make DA without incurring such a burden.