Hi Suin,
While there are advantages to having a sort of uniform approach that pays off in timeliness of reviews and getting into the same timing for everyone, unfortunately it's not going to work out well as I found out.

If you go back and look at the early pages of this review section, you'll see where I originally started out by posting time lines for each member's review and marking the date ranges. I dropped this because it quickly became apparent everyone had different time availability for reviews and couldn't move together at the same review speeds. Some were reviewing at 3-4 times the speed of others who had less flexibility in their personal time commitments and so on. What this led to was pretty much an honor system that we have now. Members do their best to put up a review within 20 days from their last one. This allows members to measure their commitments against themselves instead of a group movement. And this system currently in place is not without drawbacks.

For example, what happens when one of our members has finished their novel? The time for review help becomes much more critical for them in that case. We recently had: Stephanie, Randy, and Cobber reach the conclusion of their novels. Randy's publisher took care of any such dilemma involving his novel, but the others may not be able to wait months for all our members to reach the last chapter. The counter point to this is simply, "Hey, Jube. Sure you reached the end of a novel because you've been reviewing it since long before this review group started. It's not fair to pressure the rest of us who haven't been plugging away all this time to step it up and reach the last chapter." Another drawback is also involved with the timing aspect. It's common for reviewer A to be followed by reviewer B and C etc. Where reviewer's B and C etc. are picking up on the same nits that A already pointed out thereby causing redundancy of reviewing. Some of our members have the time to read through all the posted reviews and commit to memory the nits found before beginning their own review, but others don't have that time to devote. Waiting for the writer to put out the revised version doesn't work out either since some members knock a revised version out within days and others can go up to a year.

My suggestion would be to download a desktop reminder program. CNET downloads, and other sites, offer free programs that can pop up a reminder on your PC desktop and even have it accompanied by sound effects.

Also, I am glad you brought up the idea as all of us collectively will determine the best approach to structure our review group. Matthew Abelack's idea of running 2-4 chapters of the same work at a time is a perfect example of an improvement coming from the ideas of our members. I am always willing to implement ideas that our members want to try as a majority.

Can everyone weigh in with their opinion?
A. Yes, I can commit to a uniform schedule for reviews.
B. No, my time commitments are usually in flux.
C. I have a different idea. Here it is--

Completed reviews for Randy's two works - chapter 1 of Malicious Affiliation, and chapters 1 & 2 of A Cartel's Revenge.

Agreed. Unless one has been writing so long that it's become second nature, the same as breathing, we should ideally find ourselves editing/revising more often than writing. What helps are review groups like these. The help we get on rewording suggestions and spotting items that need work, which our mind refuses to see as anything less than perfect, no matter how many times we stare at it, is invaluable. Such help directly contributes to spending less time needed for identifying and fixing issues.

I've seen the following more than once browsing editor and author blogs and it does make sense, at least to me -

How your time to complete a writing project breaks down in general:

25% - planning
25% - writing
45% - editing/revising
5%  - formatting

So, if you find yourself wondering if spending more time revising than writing a chapter is or is not on the right track--it is.

Of course, there are exceptions, like the stork, with writing quills instead of feathers, as I like to refer to Stephen King. He says in his creative writing book that he spends time for a once over pass on his chapter for revising. It's upside down for him on the time line, but he's an exception since he's been writing for decades and was an English teacher as well. Nora Roberts, one of the most prodigious romance authors is also a machine at churning out chapters and novels. It's very interesting to take a look at different author styles and look over a chapter or two without needing to read the whole novel to get a sense of how they write.

Stefanie Dubois wrote:

I did reviews for Cobber, Matthew, CJ, Ann (is Ann still part of this group? It looks like she removed herself?), Alkemi and Suin.

Yes, Ann advised us she would be unable to continue in our review group due to her teaching demands at school. Suin has filled the open spot, and does very well as a writer and reviewer in her own right, keeping our member count at the agreed upon maximum of 8.

INTERVIEWING YOUR CHARACTERS AS A TECHNIQUE

This isn't a unique idea or epiphany moment on my part, and some of you may already know this technique, but I wanted to toss it out there. Yes, at the risk of becoming a drooling fan of K.M. Weiland's writing help books, it is mentioned there and I figured it would be helpful to our group.

So, you are stuck on tailoring your character(s) and need some way to give them depth and consistency? Interview them and use the answers as your blueprint.

I'll drop an example on the fly here and see if it makes sense. I'll randomly choose Jack from the Jack and Jill tango -

Jack how tall are you and what else can you say about your physical self? A. I'm 5'7' and I weigh 150 for my age. I don't want to say anything about the next part *coughs uncomfortably*.

What part and why would you not want to talk about it? A. If you're going to drag it out then it's my feet, okay? My feet are too big and the other kids that see it always make fun of me, especially ....

Especially who? A. Jill. I hate when she makes fun of my feet the most.

Do you like her? Is that why you get more upset? A. Yes. I haven't told her I like her but I think she knows and that makes it worse when she mocks my feet.

Okay, enough about her and your feet. Who is your best friend and who is your worst enemy? A. Jill is my best friend and Harold is my worst enemy.

Why is Harold your enemy? A. He likes Jill, too. Whenever all of us are around each other, he says and does everything he can to tear me down in front of her.

What do you want to do in life? Do you have a goal? Not right now, I don't. I'm going with the flow and I strongly believe when the time is right something will come my way that only I can do. I want Jill at my side when this happens with Harold at my feet.

Are you quick to anger? Do you go to school? Do you come from a good family? Do you have money to meet your needs? Do you believe in fictional characters?

As you see, in the process of interviewing your character development aspects will come spilling out for you to make a blueprint. Give it a try if you're stuck smile

Finished reviewing chapters 26, 27, & 28 of Matthew Abelack's The Girl Who Lost The Earth, book 1. Interesting what turns out to be Jenny's fate and how it fits in to the story line and title.

"So, our religion is a religion of fear and terror to the enemies of God: the Jews, Christians, and pagans. With God's willing, we are terrorists to the bone. So, many thanks to God. In God's book, he ordered us to fight you everywhere we find you, even if you were inside the holiest of all holy cities, The Mosque in Mecca, and the holy city of Mecca, and even during sacred months.

With regards to us, we were exercising caution and secrecy in our war against you. This is a natural matter, where God has taught us in his book, verse 71 from An-Nisa: ((0 you believers! Toke your precautions, and either go forth (on expedition) in parties, or go forth together.))

Also, as the prophet has stated: "War is to deceive."


-- The 9/11 Shura Council from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba

This subject has come up more than a few times among us on reviews as to how we are portraying our characters, what are they missing or have too much of, etc.

Relating to my own experience - After I first joined TNBW and proudly posted my very first chapter 1 draft, I eagerly waited for a review to come in. "John", a long time member with tons of review experience on this site, did not disappoint. Like a child on Christmas, opening presents, I couldn't wait to see what his review said. Aside from advising me I should learn what a POV was and paragraph breaks and scene breaks, he focused mostly on my characters. He correctly assessed them as boring cookie cutter stamps of each other where only the name differentiated them. John told me what I needed to know. My characters all got along just fantastic, sort of like a Mickey Mouse club franchise group. They all spoke in dialogue with the same formal speech, using the same dialogue words and almost the same sentence length from character to character. None of them displayed to the reader any hints or background or goals in life.

Here's an example much to my chagrin. For those of you who recall my character "Maribel" probably the first impression that comes to mind is she's a loud mouth bitch that likes to use violence to solve her problems, even if she caused said problems to begin with. But she was originally following my main character around as a pleasing support character who was a clingy girlfriend in all but name only. I had to change all my characters to one degree or more.

The following is from K.M. Weiland's Structuring Your Novel help book for writers. It is a section that describes how you should think about designing and implementing your characters in your story for maximum effect. As Weiland and a host of other "pros" have said - Readers don't read our story for the story, they read it for how the characters perform in the story.

ALLOWING CONFLICT TO ARISE FROM CHARACTER
Integral conflict must arise organically from the characters’ personalities and inner and outer goals. If you find your POV character isn’t embroiled deeply enough within any scene’s conflict, you either need to up the stakes for him personally—or find a different narrator who already has plenty at stake. The narrating character’s involvement in any scene must matter to him as a person, preferably on both a physical and spiritual level. Don’t be afraid of creating characters who spark against each other. Arguments should abound, even among friends. In life, we often think of likable people as nice people. But, in fiction, that’s not quite how it works. In fiction, nice characters are conflict-sucking vampires out to sap your book’s lifeblood and leave the story pale and limp in your readers’ hands. Ouch, huh? Understandably, we’d like most of our characters to be likable, but how can we tell if we’re running the risk of making them too nice? An epic fantasy I once read offered a good example of how overly nice characters can kill your book’s conflict and momentum. The book featured dozens of characters, almost all of whom were fighting on the same side—so, naturally, they were all nice to one another. Nothing wrong with that, right? Well, when you consider that every scene in your story needs to contain conflict, you realize the idea of all the characters getting along, waking up every morning with chipper attitudes, and just generally being super nice all over the place really doesn’t provide for a constant stream of conflict. Since this book never characterized the alien bad guys and because the heroes rarely exchanged dialogue with them, the author basically blocked off every door that might have led him to scene conflict. Don’t fall into the no-conflict trap. Give your characters plenty of flaws, plenty of arguments, plenty of respectable motives for engaging in conflict, and plenty of antagonists. But at the same time, be wary of creating false conflict. Like false suspense, false conflict is an attempt by the author to unnaturally manipulate the story. In false suspense, we’re telling readers something exciting or dangerous is happening when it really isn’t. In false conflict, we’re dredging up sparks between two or more characters over issues these characters wouldn’t naturally fight over. For example, in a romantic comedy, the author is going to have to keep the two leads at odds throughout the story, because the moment the guy gets the girl, the story ends. So even though these people are madly in love, the author might keep throwing in petty squabbles and small misunderstandings that blow up into big arguments. This sort of conflict creates the opportunity for interesting situations and dialogue, and it works to keep the characters from achieving their goals too quickly. But when the conflict doesn’t make sense according to the personalities of the characters and the needs of the plot, it’s going to become frustrating to readers. Conflict only works when your characters are acting honestly.

I've already covered the problems of Deuteronomy being many laws passed by the Jewish priests and not holding the same weight as the 10 so citing the particularly unsavory ones after I emphasized show me where the 10 are at issue for causing mayhem and violence based on what they command the followers to do ignores my point.

Yes, I got that from the first post you made on the subject that you aren't defending either and were arguing both are equally at fault for guiding the masses into a mess. My issue of disagreement all along has been they are not equal. They don't both take the path of peace when strictly adhered to. The verses between the two are clear on that.

A wide majority of theology professors will tell you, should you ask, that if you were a Christian or Catholic and ignored Deuteronomy and Numbers and the other laws of man, but only followed the 10 you would be good to go. That's how significant the difference is. A devout Muslim cannot do the same. He cannot follow only certain Quranic verses and ignore the ones he doesn't like. All of it is considered handed down by Gabriel where none of it can be ignored. A big difference.

That's an endless debate over what was discounted from the bible, like the book of Mary for example. or the one you cite showing Jesus slaying a child. The big picture here is your original point, did you forget? How it impacts us today. Does agreement with your unclean version of Jesus translate to thousands being killed around the world today? Do the Quranic verses along with Hadith and Sura contribute to the militant movement of Jihad around the world? The first is no and the second is yes.

I'll sign off here on this subject because I think we've both wore out the major differences in our positions.

I didn't know tossing you a bit of advice for their bombing tactics was considered paranoia. It certainly would have saved quite a few in the Boston Marathon and it's not something widely known. My bad, I should have not told you anything at all about that.

Take care.

Thanks for the information and I suspected it has been brought up by someone at sometime. I looked through the forum posts but didn't spot it in the time I had to search. Our review group and profile settings aren't as far as I know open to the internet. I didn't even see any option on our profile page where you could open it to the internet. I know it's there for publishing content.

Sol,
I don't know if this topic was covered before, but our novels and pen names are coming up on Google and Yahoo searches. Wouldn't that be a problem?

This is what a moderator from another website says about this issue -

IMPORTANT
Publishers are, 99.9% of the time, looking for previously unpublished work.
Publishers will Google your title, and the first two lines of your piece. They will inevitably find that item on the net.
This will leave you ineligible for publishing, and all your hard work will be wasted.

I ran a few of members in my review group, including myself, as tests and it comes up when worded just right. Here's an example of the profile from Yahoo. Our discussion forum titles (not the content of discussion) in forums also gets picked up. I'm not an IT guy so how does Google and Yahoo pick up information on our WIPs and pen names from inside TNBW?

Profile Page of C J Driftwood -...
www.thenextbigwriter.com/users/c-j-driftwo...
C J Driftwood. Connect. Connect. Profile; Portfolio; Reviews; Book Shelf; Quickees; ... Raven's Curse. Book. Commercial Fiction. Shelves: 1. Only to Group Members and ...

And using a well known member on this site for test purposes, I entered on Yahoo *The Sorceror's Progress Novel NJC* and this comes up on Yahoo -
Profile Page of njc - TheNextBigWriter.com
www.thenextbigwriter.com/users/njc-10491
The Sorcerer's Progress, Book 2: Earth By Fire. Book. Fantasy. Shelves: 1. Only to Group Members and Connections. ... Leave a message for the writer with penname Njc.

Do you see this as a problem or no?

What is the law? It is not "clearly" ones to slaughter others. It is commonly held--in theology--the law, or core tenets, refers to the 10 commandments. The 10 are the core laws and considered indisputable in the face of questionable "laws" that have been suspected of being passed by priests wishing to increase their power over the Jewish population. Deuteronomy is a good example of this. Jesus comes to fulfill the prophecy of the Messiah that is what he refers to in Matthew 5-17. But it is a never ending debate as there are those who say "law" is everything cited, and those like me who say "law" refers to the 10. Where I believe your argument here falls apart is in his historical deeds contrasted with Muhammed. You know there is zero chance you can find anything to show Jesus killed anyone. Sure, he trashed the markets he found in the Temple area, but he didn't beat to death anyone or even come close. Oh, but Muhammed sure did! He is cited as having personally beheaded hundreds and is responsible for the deaths of many more through his commands and sayings. Christianity and Islam in the same bucket? Not even close. So then how can such a peaceful carpenter named Jesus say, "Yes, Vern, you got it right. I meant I came to also fulfill all the violent passages and acts of murder you can find in the Old Testament." The shoe doesn't fit and you know it.

During the time of the Jews, Old Testament, the men found they had a problem with marriage. It was commanded marriage was a unity to be held unto death because of an oath to God and the commandment was not to take it in vain. So the solution found for many such men was to kill their wives to be free of marriage when they no longer favored the wife. You find this still going on today although it's mostly done for insurance money now. So what to do about this said the priests? They *created* laws permitting the concept of divorce. This was not Yahweh calling down to the masses to send up another to Mount Sinai so he could amend the 10 commandments to say, If you covet your neighbors wife you may divorce your current one. Those are the laws of man passed off in the bible you speak of.

Where is the text within the core tenets to justify death camps in Cambodia or anywhere else you cite? It is very relevant. Without being able to justify the religious validity, it has no valid basis in religion at all. If it has no valid basis why would you or anyone else then cite or imply it was the cause? Is it not more accurate to say it was *used* against its original intent? The Ottoman Empire, the last Caliphate, exterminated over a million Armenians aka unbelievers but could justify it in the Quranic verses. Those who refuse to submit to Muslim rule will have their protection withdrawn.

Many think Hitler just hated Jews from the get go. B.S. He had a great deal of help in his thinking from Amin Al-Husseini, The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem during WW2. There's actually photos online of the two chums sitting side by side. And now you know who perched on Hitler's shoulder exhorting him in exterminating the Jews. He relished the opportunity to work with Hitler since he had an effective tool in carrying out the will of Allah. Sound familiar? Ottoman Empire - Caliphate from WW1 to Hitler in WW2? The body count due to Jihad beliefs is around 7.5 million in total from just those two acts of genocide.

Africa is over 58% Muslim and growing and winning, so please don't imply the Muslims are the victims. Boko Haram and Al Shabab easily do whatever they please, control whatever territory they please as adjuncts of an Islamic militant movement worldwide. Libya is owned by Muslim warlords. All the examples you provided lack the validity of the 10 commandments to support the acts. I personally think the current Pope is 3 fries short of a happy meal in many of his statements since ascending to office, but this does not invalidate the 10. If the Pope says this week - You may covet your neighbor's possessions and take them as you like. It does not invalidate the 10, it does invalidate the Pope.

Your argument does and doesn't provide a valid summary for the problem at hand. You argue that some fall prey to manipulation and ignorant teachings while not every Christian or Muslim does. What's wrong here is simply those that don't fall prey are knowledgeable and true to their faith which is why they don't fall in the first place. Those that did fall prey aren't considered Christians (let's trot out Timothy McVeigh or Planned Parenthood shooter here) or Muslims. Here's how it goes in simple terms - We find the Son of Sam killing people because he says God told him to do so. We ask him to show us in the 10 where it justifies this. He can't. On the flip side, we ask Abdullah why he hates Jews. He points at several verses in the Quran and Hadith, showing that Jews and Christians are to be fought against (Quran 9:29). We argue he doesn't have a personal reason to hate Jews, he counters saying by not following Allah's commandments, he would be Takfir, aka not a true Muslim, and why should he question the word of Allah? Taking Jews or Christians as friends is Haram. This is not the case in Judaism. A Jew may befriend a Gentile. And so we have yet another difference showing they aren't the same thing. Are you seeing a common denominator here about how often "not the same" comes up?  Another differing point - To Abdullah, all the commandments and versus in the Quran are core beliefs (the perfect book handed down and copied in perfect likeness from Gabriel), unlike those for the Christian or Catholic who are instructed the 10 are the core beliefs to focus on. Makes sense? I mean Yahweh didn't tell Moses at the top of Mount Sinai, "Here are the stone tablets with the 10 commandments. Oops, I forgot to give you these hundreds of other sayings to be taken as the same as the 10 with equal merit." The 10 are the core and stand far above anything else cited. Theology 101.

In Islam, the Quran was handed down personally by the archangel Gabriel and it is the perfect book even in distributed form to the masses. There is no such belief in Christianity or Catholicism regarding the Bible being used as a paperweight on one's table. This is why if you burn a King James bible you may piss off a Christian or Catholic, but if you burn a Quran you are to be killed. Profaning a perfect book from Gabriel is a much more serious offense in Islam.

The belief drives the masses which is why it is relevant. Individuals here and there are certainly relevant to us when we ourselves are their victim, but armies of thousands or millions can be driven by belief. If the belief is not valid there is no tether to hold the weapon of mass destruction together, so to speak.

And so what is my point here? We can argue and show the text to self-proclaimed Christians that they are not justified in their violent acts, but we cannot do the same with Islamic beliefs. Thus they are not the same thing at all. You cited examples of those not following their core tenets, but you should be arguing this is exactly the problem. Our morality guidelines have to come from somewhere. If you think the idea of killing Jews and unbelievers and homosexuals is wrong, don't say the 3 phrases and become a Muslim. If you think the 10 are garbage then don't become a Christian or Catholic or Jew. But on the Muslim side of things, this is very difficult to do in a Muslim dominant nation as such a free will concept is considered ridiculous. That's why they have blasphemy laws in place. Many think Islam is about killing infidels, it's main purpose is to convert kuffar. One's life is made miserable under Sharia Law for that purpose. You will become so miserable you will want to convert.

When we gather at the next parade, at the next stadium game, at the next concert, there is only one religion that will be cited we need to worry about the most, making this particular religion quite relevant to us here and now. This is another reason why they are not the same thing. As ISIS leader Al Baghdadi told his U.S. captors upon his release, "I'll see you in New York." But the lesson I'd like us to take away from all of this is Tsun Tsu's "Know your enemy."

An interesting debate for a serious concern of our times, I'll give you that. And when I say, "Take care." I also mean "Stay alert" out in large groups of people. Here's a tip that could help if such an event goes sideways. As Tsun Tsu would remind us, "Know your enemy." A common Jihadist tactic when using bombs on masses of people is they set 2 bombs to go off a minute or so apart. The first bomb goes off and the second is positioned to "catch" those fleeing in the opposite direction. This was the case in the Boston Marathon bombing and Mumbai Hotel bombing in India and many other places civilians gather. Don't run in the opposite direction! Yes, you will tell me your chances of being caught up in such a situation are less than being struck by lightning, but that chance will rise all the time if security in our nation remains the same.

Congressman Elijah Cummings has stated during a camera moment, that this will now become the norm as it is in other parts of the world and we simply need to accept the change in our way of life. A sure sign of defeatism. During a live TV broadcast in Egypt, when Morsi led the Muslim Brotherhood and were in power, one of the parliament members screwed up and told the others during a dispute over what to do about a dam being built by Ethopia (paraphrased) - We are not at war with Ethopia. We are at war with America but must move in secret. When an aide ran in to tell him he was live on TV the member said since he was only speaking what everyone knew already there was no harm in it. Just so you know, the MB is the grandfather of Al Queda and other offshoots. It's a very large organization and has ties all the way up to governmental levels in most of the Muslim countries. It's not a JV team either.

I can't recall the last time a group of fanatic Christians that *key point here* cited a verse from the New Testament as justification for murder. For example, Timothy McVeigh could say he was a Christian, or a Martian for that matter, but he could not point to a valid text in the New Testament to expressly justify what he did. That is the main difference here. Islam has peaceful versus Muhammed fashioned while in Medina. His post Medina violent versus are the problem. The Quran and all Islamic jurisprudence centers, clerics, and Imams agree post Medina versus are valid and nullify those prior. These are the violent versus we are all becoming familiar with whether we like it or not. The reformation of Wahab that also gave birth to the Salafists only made it that much worse as there was an even greater focus on spreading Islam by force. Our news likes to call Jihadists "radicals" but they are in actuality the most fundamental and learned of Quranic versus. Take the leader of Isis, Al Baghadid. He holds a doctorate in Islamic studies and knows more about the Quran and Hadiths than all the members on this site combined. This is what he publicly said to clear up the misconceptions Kafir had or those deemed not true Muslims, "Islam is not a religion of peace, it is a religion of fighting." Closer to home, Ibrahim Hooper, co-founder of CAIR said, "Islam is not in America to be on equal footing with other religions, it is here to dominate."

So why do you see CAIR and others starting to condemn these acts of Jihadism? Taqiyya is your answer. A tenet where Muhammed himself approved of using deceit to further the cause of Islam. In Muhammed's case it was more personal as he was enraged with a poet's criticism and ordered his death. If you've read Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series and the famous Dune series you will see where the authors incorporated aspects of Islam for their books.

There have been over 22k Jihadi attacks around the world since 9/11 - Jihad Watch and similar sites keep track as religiously as our gov't keeps track of the national debt. I don't know the tally on fanatic Christian attacks upon others, but I believe it is not even in the same universe for comparison sake. Actually, Coptic Christians, a group that is older in belief than American Christians, have been slaughtered on a regular basis without much to say on that matter by our current POTUS.

Completed reviews for Cobber's State of Vengeance, chapters 6, 7, 8, and 9......

This section is long overdue and I should've had it originally created in the beginning.
For any of our members who strikes gold and lands on the desk of an agent or publisher, feel free to post the good news in this section as well as the TNBW general section.

Don't forget to post not just here, but where everyone can see it smile

Probably many, or all of you, already have creative writing resources on hand, but I figured the following is a really good one to post excerpts from. The author K.M. Weiland puts out a lot of good help books that include some fairly advanced techniques that go beyond simple rewording and line structuring advice. Some of her books are downloadable for free from Amazon. She also has a ton of podcasts that can be played audio for free from iTunes. Anyways, here are some of the interesting items I wanted to post here from her mentoring projects -

THE HOOK: This is described by Weiland as basically a section in your opening chapter that is compelling and/or interesting enough to keep your readers turning the pages to find out what happens in future sections where the elements of your hook play out. At the end of reading her advice you should ask yourself, "Do I have a hook in my opening chapter?" and if not, "Should I put one in?".

Here is Weiland's words on this from her *STORY STRUCTURE* section:

READERS ARE LIKE fish. Smart fish. Fish who know authors are out to get them, reel them in, and capture them for the rest of their seagoing lives. Like all self-respecting fish, readers aren’t caught easily. They aren’t about to surrender themselves to the lure of your story unless you’ve presented them with an irresistible hook. Our discussion of story structure very naturally begins at the beginning—and the beginning of any good story is its hook. Unless you hook readers into your story from the very first chapter, they won’t swim in deep enough to experience the rest of your rousing adventure, no matter how amazing it is. The hook comes in many forms, but stripped down to its lowest common denominator, it’s nothing more or less than a question. If we can pique our readers’ curiosity, we’ve got ’em. Simple as that. The beginning of every story should present character, setting, and conflict. But, in themselves, none of these represent a hook. We’ve created a hook only when we’ve convinced readers to ask the general question, “What’s going to happen?” because we’ve also convinced them to ask a more specific question—“What scary reptilian monster killed the worker?” (Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton) or “How does a city hunt?” (Mortal Engines by Philip Reeve). Your opening question might be explicit: perhaps you open with the character wondering something, which will hopefully make readers wonder the same thing. But more often, the question is implicit, as it is, for example, in Elizabeth Gaskell’s short story “Lizzie Leigh,” which opens with a dying man’s last words to his wife. All he says is, “I forgive her, Anne! May God forgive me.” Readers have no idea whom the man is forgiving, or why he might need to beg God’s forgiveness in turn. The very fact that we don’t know what he’s talking about makes us want to read on to find the answers. The important thing to remember about presenting this opening question is that it cannot be vague. Readers have to understand enough about the situation to mentally form a specific question. What the heck is going on here? does not qualify as a good opening question. It’s not necessary for the question to remain unanswered all the way to the end of the story. It’s perfectly all right to answer the question in the very next paragraph, so long as you introduce another question, and another and another, to give readers a reason to keep turning those pages in search of answers. Beginnings are the sales pitch for your entire story. Doesn’t matter how slam-bang your finish is, doesn’t matter how fresh your dialogue is, doesn’t matter if your characters are so real they tap dance their way off the pages. If your beginning doesn’t fulfill all its requirements, readers won’t get far enough to discover your story’s hidden merits. Although no surefire pattern exists for the perfect opening, most good beginnings share the following traits:

THEY DON’T OPEN BEFORE THE BEGINNING. Mystery author William G. Tapley points out, “Starting before the beginning … means loading up your readers with background information they have no reason to care about.” Don’t dump your backstory into your reader’s lap right away, no matter how vital it is to the plot. How many of us want to hear someone’s life story the moment after we meet him?

THEY OPEN WITH CHARACTERS, PREFERABLY THE PROTAGONIST. Even the most plot-driven tales inevitably boil down to characters. The personalities that inhabit your stories are what will connect with readers. If you fail to connect them with the characters right off the bat, you can cram all the action you want into your opening, but the intensity and the drama will still fall flat.

THEY OPEN WITH CONFLICT. No conflict, no story. Conflict doesn’t always mean nuclear warheads going off, but it does demand your characters be at odds with someone or something right from the get-go. Conflict keeps the pages turning, and turning pages are nowhere more important than in the beginning.

THEY OPEN WITH MOVEMENT. Openings need more than action, they need motion. Motion gives readers a sense of progression and, when necessary, urgency. Whenever possible, open with a scene that allows your characters to keep moving, even if they’re just checking the fridge.

THEY ESTABLISH THE SETTING. Modern authors are often shy of opening with description, but a quick, incisive intro of the setting serves not only to ground readers in the physicality of the story, but also to hook their interest and set the stage. Opening lines “that hook you immediately into the hero’s dilemma almost always follow the hook with a bit of stage setting,” and vice versa.
THEY ORIENT READERS WITH AN “ESTABLISHING” SHOT. Anchoring readers can often be done best by taking a cue from the movies and opening with an “establishing” shot. If done skillfully, you can present the setting and the characters’ positions within it in as little as a sentence or two.

THEY SET THE TONE. Because your opening chapter sets the tone for your entire story, you need to give readers accurate presuppositions about the type of tale they’re going to be reading. Your beginning needs to set the stage for the denouement—without, of course, giving it away. If you can nail all these points in your opening chapter, your readers will keep the pages turning into the wee hours of the morning.

FIVE ELEMENTS OF A RIVETING FIRST LINE Because your ability to convince readers to keep reading is dependent on your hook, you will need to present it as early as possible in your first scene. In fact, if you can get it into your first line, so much the better. However, the hook must be organic. Teasing readers with a killer opening line (“Mimi was dying again”) only to reveal all is not as it seems (turns out Mimi is an actress performing her 187th death scene) both negates the power of your hook and betrays readers’ trust. And readers don’t like to be betrayed. Not one little bit. The opening line of your book is your first (and, if you don’t take advantage of it, last) opportunity to grab your readers’ attention and give them a reason to read your story. That’s a gargantuan job for a single sentence. But if we analyze opening lines, we discover a number of interesting things. One of the most surprising discoveries is that very few opening lines are memorable. Say what? Before you start quoting the likes of “Call me Ishmael” and “Happy families are all alike,” take a moment to think about the last few books you read and loved. Can you remember the opening lines? The very fact that these unremembered lines convinced us to keep reading until we loved the books means they did their jobs to sparkly perfection. I looked up the first lines of five of my favorite reads from the last year: When I wake up, the other side of the bed is cold. (The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins)
When he woke in the woods in the dark and the cold of the night he’d reach out to touch the child sleeping beside him. (The Road by Cormac McCarthy) It was night again. The Waystone Inn lay in silence, and it was a silence of three parts. (The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss) They used to hang men at Four Turnings in the old days. (My Cousin Rachel by Daphne du Maurier) On the night he had appointed his last among the living, Dr. Ben Givens did not dream, for his sleep was restless and visited by phantoms who guarded the portal to the world of dreams by speaking relentlessly of this world. (East of the Mountains by David Guterson) What makes these lines work? What about them makes us want to read on? Let’s break them down into five parts. Inherent Question. To begin with, they all end with an invisible question mark. Why is the other side of the bed cold? Why are these characters sleeping outside in bad weather? How can silence be divided into three separate parts? Whom did they hang in the old days—and why don’t they hang them anymore? And why and how has Ben Givens appointed the time of his death? You can’t just tell readers what’s going on in your story; you have to give them enough information to make them ask the questions—so you can then answer them. Character. Most of these opening lines give us a character (and the rest introduce their characters in the sentences that follow). The first line is the first opportunity readers have to meet and become interested in your main character. Guterson ramps this principle to the max by naming his character, which allows readers that many more degrees of connection. Setting. Most of these lines also offer a sense of setting. In particular, McCarthy, du Maurier, and Rothfuss use their settings to impart a deep sense of foreboding and to set the tone of the book. The opening line doesn’t have to stand alone. It is supported by and leads into the scaffolding of all the sentences and paragraphs that follow. Sweeping Declaration. Only one of our example books (du Maurier’s) opens with a declaration. Some authors feel this is another technique that’s fallen by the wayside, along with the omniscient narrators of Melville and Tolstoy. But the declaration is still alive and well, no matter what point of view you’re operating from. The trick is using the declaration to make readers ask that all-important inherent question. “The sky is blue” or “a stitch in time saves nine” are the kind of yawn-infested declarations that lead nowhere. But if you dig a little deeper—something along the lines of William Gibson’s “The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel”5—you find not only a bit of poetry, but also a sense of tone and the question of why? that makes readers want to keep going. Tone. Finally, in every one of our examples readers can find the introduction of tone. Your first line is your “hello.” Don’t waste it. Set the tone of your story right from the start. Is your book funny, snarky, wistful, sad, or poetic? Make sure we find that core element in your opening line. Don’t hand them a joke at the beginning if your story is a lyrical tragedy. Opening lines offer authors their first and best opportunity to make a statement about their stories.
Play around until you find something that perfectly introduces your story’s character, plot, setting, theme, and voice. Your opening line may be as short as Suzanne Collins’s. It may be longer than David Guterson’s. It may be flashy, or it may be straightforward. Whatever the case, it needs to be an appropriate starting line for the grand adventure that is your story.

EXAMPLES FROM FILM AND LITERATURE Now that we have a basic idea of what a hook is and where it belongs, let’s consider a few examples. I’ve selected two movies and two novels (two classics and two recent), which we’ll use as examples throughout the book, so you can follow the story arc as presented in popular and successful media. Let’s take a look at how the professionals hook us so effectively we never realize we’ve swallowed the worm. Pride & Prejudice by Jane Austen (1813): Austen begins by masterfully hooking us with her famous opening line, “It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife.”6 The subtle irony gives us a sense of conflict from the very first and lets us know that neither the wife in search of the fortune nor the man in search of the wife will find their goals so easily. Austen deepens the pull of her hook in her opening paragraph by further highlighting the juxtaposition of her opening statement with the realities of her plot. She deepens it still further throughout the opening scene, which introduces readers to the Bennet family in such a way that we not only grow interested in the characters, but also realize both the thrust of the plot and the difficulties of the conflict. It’s a Wonderful Life directed by Frank Capra (1947): Capra opens with a framing device that hooks viewers with a sneak peek of the Climax. The movie opens at the height of the main character’s troubles and has us wondering why George Bailey is in such a fix that the whole town is praying for him. Next thing we know, we’re staring at an unlikely trio of angels, manifested as blinking constellations. The presentation not only fascinates us with its unexpectedness, it also succinctly expresses the coming conflict and stakes and engages readers with a number of specific need-to-know questions. Ender’s Game by Orson Scott Card (1977): The opening line to Card’s acclaimed science-fiction novel is packed with hooking questions: “I’ve watched through his eyes, I’ve listened through his ears, and I tell you he’s the one. Or at least as close as we’re going to get.”7 Just like that, Card’s got us wondering how the speaker is watching and listening through someone else’s mind, who is “the one,” what is “the one” supposed to do, and why are they settling for a “one” who is less than perfect? He then successfully builds his killer opening into a scene that introduces his unlikely hero, six-year-old Ender Wiggin, just as his life is about to be turned upside down. Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World directed by Peter Weir (2004): As a brilliant adaptation of Patrick O’Brian’s beloved Aubrey/Maturin series, this movie is unusual in a number of areas, not least in its non-formulaic tone and plot. Nevertheless, it follows the requirements of structure to a T, beginning with the stark opening that shows the morning ritual aboard the man of war HMS Surprise. Aside from arousing our natural curiosity about the unique setting, the hook doesn’t appear until a minute or so into the film when one of the midshipmen spots what might be an enemy ship. The film never slows to explain the situation to the viewers. It carries them through a few tense moments of uncertainty and indecision, then, almost without warning, plunges them into the midst of a horrific sea battle. We are hooked almost before we see the hook coming. Takeaway Value So what can we learn from these masterful hooks? Hooks should be inherent to the plot. Hooks don’t always involve action, but they always set it up. Hooks never waste time. Hooks almost always pull double or triple duty in introducing character, conflict, and plot—and even setting and theme. Your hook is your first chance to impress readers, and like it or not, first impressions will make you or break you. Plan your hook carefully and wow readers so thoroughly they won’t ever forget your opening scene.
*Weiland has more useful tips and advice which I'll post here in the future.*

Completed a review of the final chapters, 29-30-31-32, of Stefanie's Day of Darkness novel. I liked the ending and won't spoil it for you smile

Completed a review of chapters 1 & 2 for Suin's - Being Fifteen.

Completed reviews for chapters 4,5,6, & 7 for Alkemi's Souring Seas. Living in the Los Angeles County, where it was publicly documented and televised that the employees of the Department of Water and Power (DWP) refused to drink the tap water, and had Arrowhead deliver bottled water, I can't help but wonder if our tap water is filled with an evil version of Alkemi's diatoms?

From freelance editor, Ellen Brock's website, is this very useful writing tip on replacing/using whenever you can the "ing" ending verbs in your writing. Yes, we can't completely get away from them, but your "ed" ending verbs are going to make your writing voice stronger. It looks like I get to add one more thing to go over in all my chapters on revisions. Here's what she says about this -
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Stop Using “-ing” Verbs in Your Novel

Want to add instantaneous strength to your novel?  Cut out verbs ending in “ing.”  These verbs weaken your writing and reduce the reader’s perception of immediacy. So avoiding these verbs can increase tension and improve flow.

Consider the following sentences:

    He was walking to the park.

    I was dancing on stage.

    She is staring at me.

Now check out these replacement sentences:

    He walked to the park.

    I danced on stage.

    She stares at me.

See how much more direct and powerful these sentences are?  And of course,  this has a cumulative effect.  The more “-ing” verbs you cut out, the stronger your writing will seem. Consider this paragraph:

Abigail was walking along the bike trail. There was a boy riding his bike. He was smiling up at her as she passed. She started wondering what the boy was so happy about.

Now consider the alternative:

Abigail walked along the bike trail. A boy rode his bike and smiled as he passed her. She wondered what the boy was so happy about.
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While it's good advice, I think if you are writing in present tense form it's inevitable you will have to use a lot of "ing" ending verbs to reflect that present tense. I know Ellen has an example of present tense where she converts it to "She stares at me." But you aren't going to be able to frequently arrange this kind of line structure in your lines for present tense. If you are writing in past tense form, then the majority of the time look to use the "ed" versions over the "ing" and I find that solid advice.

Exactly as you said and I see you did your homework on the publisher end. I was just reading a freelance editor's webpage last night and she mentioned the same thing. Publishers have word ranges for new authors and while those ranges are increased for sci-fi and fantasy novels, they won't normally touch them if the novel goes over the word count. I find this stupid. If a novel is good, then it should be determined by it's quality not quantity of pages.

From Ellen Brock's website (She has a good amount of writing tip gems posted there that I haven't seen anywhere else. I recommend everyone in this group take some time and read through some of her points. Very useful information!) -
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So What’s the Ideal Length of a Novel?

That depends on several factors, including where you publish and the genre.

Mainstream/Contemporary/Literary

The Low End: Many agents and publishers will automatically reject novels that are shorter than 60-70,000 words (Sorry NaNoWriMo writers). Exactly where they draw that bottom line depends on the individual. If you keep it above 65k, you probably won’t be rejected on word count alone.

The High End: Somewhere around 100-120k is the cut-off length for most agents and publishers. Anything above 100k puts you in the high-risk zone for rejection, so make sure your query is top notch.

Ideal Length: I’ve heard from several agents and publishers that 80k is their favorite length.

Romance/Erotic Fiction

The Low End: If you’re going with traditional publication, anything under 50k is probably too short (65k for historical). If you’re self-publishing or e-publishing, you will find there is a market for stories as short as 3,000 words.

The High End: Typically, anything over 70k is too long for a romance. Historical romances and genre-bending romances (scifi, fantasy, etc.) can push as high as 95,000 with some publishers.

SciFi/Fantasy

The Low End: Generally, anything less than 80k is too short, but there may be exceptions for “light” SciFi/Fantasy, books that could be marketed as mainstream.

The High End: SciFi/Fantasy can easily get way up there in word count! First-time novelists (note: self-publishing still makes you a first-time novelist to the traditional publishing world) should try to keep it under 120k, but certainly lower than 150k. Publishers specializing in SciFi/Fantasy are more comfortable with high word counts than those that are simply open to publishing it.

Mystery/Thriller

The Low End: Cozy mysteries may be as short as 55-60k. Thrillers should push a little higher: 65-70k on the low end.

The High End: Cozy mysteries are usually no longer than 75-80k. Non-cozy mysteries and Thrillers can get as long as 100-110k.

There’s nothing wrong with deviating from the length recommendations.  Some writers will successfully publish an unusually long or short first novel.  But you can almost definitely increase your odds of publication by staying in a word count range that publishers are comfortable with.
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One of the few authors I like to study for writing style sent his first submission in at 400k words. Elantris was picked up by TOR and it would qualify as out of the norm for word count range.

Regarding the Diner scene, my vote would be not to cut it. To me, if we look at what elements so far *humanize* Chief outside his role of protector and adversary to the tiger, then the diner scene does just that. This is exemplified by the waitress coming on to Chief in the diner. The waitress is a character that isn't involved in the chess game between Chief and the tiger and only acts toward and perceives Chief as an eligible prospect--at least until he reveals he is engaged. In short, everything the waitress does and Chief's reactions to her advances shows me, the reader, something about Chief in a situation where the tiger and his familial commitments have zero involvement until he reveals the engagement. This helps build interesting aspects about Chief to me.

You are also keen on providing scenes and characterizations that remind the reader of what life is like in the U.S. during that era, correct? Well, in a not so noticeable, subtle way the waitress does just that. Whether intended or not, the waitress at the end of the conversation with Chief displays to the reader regret that all the good ones are taken and bows out. Now, in what many would acknowledge is a degradation of such morals over time, the *modern* generation would react differently by telling Chief what his bride-to-be doesn't know won't hurt her. Even if you stand at the side of a reader and tell them on that part it wasn't your intention that the waitress is simply a "good girl" since you can't do that for every reader, I know many will see the waitress as also a symbol of a bygone era where morals were more of an aspiration than today. A point that works in your favor.

Completed reviews of C J's--Raven's Curse novel, chapters 4,5, and 6.

Well, I did a good amount of rewording and moving some lines around for better effect. I reworded the line to omit the mention of the direction of the wind to simplify. I think the action is packed closer together in terms of flow. Overall, I do feel it reads better--thank you for the edits smile