326

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

njc wrote:

It refers back to the family routine, which was established in previous chapters.  Glaselle has taken care of all her duties and responsibilities.  Only then does she spend time with the new cherished possession.  And her parents know and trust her to act this way.

Now this makes sense, except ... when I suggested:

"After dinner and putting Harsel and Gelsa to bed, Glaselle sat down to explore her new Atlas."

you said:

njc wrote:

But you're saying that Glaselle put them to bed.  I'm leaving that question open.

This reply implied that my suggestion changed the meaning while your latest reply say otherwise.

So my question now is: Why is it important to leave it open who put them to bed?
This is in addition to: Why is it important to mention that they are put to bed?

Because you also said:

njc wrote:

Harsel and Gelsa are not the topic of the paragraph.  They are scene-setting.

I'm simply saying if it's not important, don't say it in a way that (indirectly) make it seem as if it is ... And I'm thinking we're really close to the point where you just have to tell me to go to hell and we can agree that you like it and don't want to change it or say that was the best suggestion to date on this site and you shall take it on-board and never disagree with my brilliance again! big_smile

327

(75 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

amy s wrote:

I think she has incredible potential, but she has told me repeatedly that she doesn't give two spits about what people think about her plot...that this story is going to get told and it doesn't matter who reads it.

The irony - she doesn't give two spits what other people think and will write her story 'her way', but gets heavily upset when people do not take her suggestions on board and insist they want to write their stories 'not her way'. It's a good thing she blocked me, because I don't deal very well with people who don't get sarcasm, wit, and irony. (This explains by the way why I love you guys ...)

The shame is that if she really has good writing skills (I don't know since I'm blocked) and can contribute to improving the writing of others on the site, the majority of any good feedback she gives is lost in 'how' it is given - she can't distance herself from her own writing style and voice when she reviews, and it's a HUGE problem IMO. It will seldom be constructive and impossible not to be offensive if not downright patronizing unless she is reviewing work that is written in a style very closely relating to her own. Added to that, it will take huge amounts of time to do reviews like that, because she is essentially re-writing every single word on behalf of the author ...

I disagree with njc that his reviews are as harsh or harsher. The one review she did for me was just simply not worth sifting through through 100 comments to find the 3 that was applicable (that's why I blocked her - because for whatever reason, she blocked me and then reviewed me WTF? that indicates a whole different level of trouble I'm not competent to deal with) - the mileage of others may be different and it's worth to them and I say, good for you.

NJC's reviews, sure, don't sugar coat anything, but I seldom find anything I can disagree with (and believe me, I try! LOL). So even if it is delivered with very little 'finesse' (general comment, not applicable to njc as anyone who has been reviewed by njc knows despite what he thinks), his reviews are still CONSTRUCTIVE because he is not insisting that I should write my story like he would've. And the majority of times, he explains his reasoning behind his comments. Without that, the teaching is lost and the review and time spent on the review are a waste.

Just my 2 cents.

328

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

njc wrote:

Because it's grammatically unsound.

I get that it looks like dinner was also put to bed, but that's not the point. The point is: is it important to know the kids were put to bed? Why not simply 'After dinner, Gisselle ...' and that's it? So these are my questions:

Why is it important to know 'after dinner'?
It gives me the time of day. No probs.

Why is it important to know 'after H&G were put to bed'?
....... Uhm ... I have no idea. *reads on and get to end of chapter* I still have no idea.

You leave me hanging. So it's either important and then you need to explain to me why it is important that they are in bed because I don't know from the sentence or the rest of the chapter (remember, you wrote it such that I paused and started to wonder) or it's not important and then it shouldn't be there.

329

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Elisheva Free wrote:
njc wrote:

I was once told by my manager that my broad vocabulary was a problem for our ESL people.  I asked if he was accusing me of erudition.  He said, after a pause, that he was.

I honestly hope to be accused of this one day.

-Elisheva

I have no hope in hell! LOL

330

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Just to clarify - my problem isn't so much the repetition of the word, but more your choice of word to repeat and the place where you're repeating it.

I know I've asked you plenty of times if you have deliberately chosen to repeat words - and you confirmed that you did it on purpose. Those times I went okay with me, because it 'worked' and had purpose in my opinion. This time, I'm not so sure there is purpose behind the repetition. So basically, I'm left wondering why the need to repeat it and why not simply using what Amy said: 

"After dinner and the children were put to bed, Glasselle sat down to explore her new Atlas."

Your version is giving a lot of importance to two events (it takes the focus away from Glasselle IMO which I thought was the focal point of the chapter as I've read/understood it). There's no apparent reason forthcoming in the chapter that I read why this is important to note that she only explored her atlas after dinner AND after H&G were put to bed. If it is important enough that you want your reader to pause/stop and ponder the purpose of this sentence/the repetition, I think it's important enough then to give them that reason in the same chapter. As it is, you leave me hanging and wondering (and not in a good way).

But this is me and what I'm reading and thinking as some readers would. And if that's okay with you, it's okay with me! smile

Another thing: Harsel and Gelsa draws a very strong parallel to Hansel and Gretel - just so that you know someone has picked up on it! smile

331

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

njc wrote:

What kind of flow are you writing of?  Rythm and cadence?  Linear action?  Remember, this is scene-setting, not action.  It's a prelude to action.

Just the 'I had to stop and re-read this bit to make sense of it or to see if there is any good reason for doing this' kind of flow. I've never seen or heard say it like this:

After dinner, after Harsel and Gelsa were put to bed, Glaselle sat down to explore her new Atlas.

It doesn't read 'smoothly' or feel complete or deliberate or that there is any good reason really to do that (to this reader at least).

Now, this is your writing and voice. But if it was my writing, I would've put it this way:

After dinner and putting Harsel and Gelsa to bed, Glaselle sat down to explore her new Atlas.

And I've removed some passive voice too ...

But it still is only a suggestion/a note. smile

332

(75 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

KennedyMcF wrote:

Thanks everyone for all the input, I have been thinking on how to put in more of Alex's story, to make her "special" from the get go, but with being in third person limited POV I worry that there isn't anything I can reveal that she herself knows.  Duncan has more info than she does, but she doesn't know that, and he isn't going to reveal till later. There is an element of I want to find out what happened to my father, but none of this has anything to do with why they are rappelling into this chasm.  Maybe I should edit and post the next few chapters and then come back to this later?  I think I might be worrying too much about this one aspect and it is staunching my creativeness.

Everyone around here will tell you this: first write, then edit. So yes, go back to this after your first draft is done, absolutely. You don't have to update/edit your chapters before you can post new ones otherwise it will take forever to get to the end. And plenty of times the solution to a sticky point came to me while I wrote another chapter - my original file is littered with little notes like *add more XYZ here* ...

333

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

njc wrote:

Fear not the repeater, I say!

Before the gods that made the gods
Had seen their sunrise pass,
The White Horse of the White Horse Vale
Was cut out of the grass.

Before the gods that made the gods
Had drunk their morning fill,
The White Horse of the White Horse Vale
Was hoary on the hill.
  :
  :
  :
For the end of the world was long ago
And all we dwell to-day
As children of some second birth,
Like a strange people left on earth
After a Judgement Day.

For the end of the world was long ago,
When the ends of the world waxed free,
When Rome was sunk in a waste of slaves,
And the sun drowned in the sea.

How many of our precious rules do those verses break?  And yet they are greater than anything that most of us here are likely to write--or at least, they are part of that greater work.

Am I entitled to use the tools of a master?  There's only one way to find out.

I'm not in principle opposed to repetition or breaking any rules for that matter, but repeating 'after' ... I'm not so sure it works or is exactly the same thing - it doesn't 'flow'. But if I'm the only one with the problem, you know what to do! And even I'm not the only with a problem! smile

334

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Oh, and by the way njc, I got 0.16 points for the review I just did! whoo-hoo! smile

335

(75 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Uniqueness for sure too. That makes it also really hard to swap characters around! So, this, like so many other things writing, can be done many different ways. Don't get too lost in deciding which way to go - let the story and the characters sort that out if you can! smile

336

(75 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Heya Kennedy

How to make readers care about your characters - here's my take on it. I'm sure the others will chime in with their far superior advice (honest compliment!) to help you (and me) out.

Okay, like I said, if you can answer this question, it's a good start already:

What makes Alex unique/special/different to anyone else in the world?

The easiest way to check if you're meeting this is by swapping any two characters in your book and see how it changes things. If the book will flow and end as it would've without the swap, you're in trouble.

So how do you make character's unique/special/different?

Internal motivation. What drives them and them only.

For example, did Alex gave her word to her dying father that she would find his killer? Even if she promises that to herself, it will still work. See, now it's hard to change her with any other character, because it's unlikely that any other character had made the same promise, right? And now readers will care (not 100% - that's what the rest of the book is for - but at least something more than nothing). Because if anything happens to Alex or if she's in any danger, then she won't be able to keep her promise, and then we panic more than just being presented with a MC in danger because we are emotionally invested, like your MC Alex, that she have to find her dad's killer no matter what and she can't fail, it's too important. And now she's in danger too?! It's too much, and I'll read on to see if she escapes/survives because me too wants her to find that SOB. (<----- emotional response = what you want!)

What you've done in the first chapter isn't wrong at all - you have all the good ingredients for a first chapter: mystery, a cliffhanger ending, a great introduction to the MC's. All I'm saying is, it needs just a little bit more around the introduction to your characters and their motivation to make them unique and me care about them ...

Does this help?

337

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic &amp; Sci-Fi)

I read 'Caneth' to rhyme with Gareth which is a male name as any ...

Other than that, I have no idea what is going here. I opened the chapters you posted njc, and had no clue what the hell I was reading. I could be tired, so I'll try again over the weekend. Sorry about this, it will happen, just no tonight.

amy s wrote:

Great inspiration!

FYI, consider starting a Pinterest board covered with photos that inspire you. Whenever possible, give credit and list who published or took the photo.

No!!!!! Dammit. Don't get a pininterest board thingy!!! You're supposed to be the Amy decoy! wink

Elisheva Free wrote:

It's all Amy's fault for cracking down on my descriptions. tongue

Good! That means Amy is off our backs!

amy s wrote:

Occasions for Norwood residents:

M's birthday.
Solstice
Religious holiday
Patron saint day (renamed because Lizzie1 had a father who kicked the Catholic Church out of England.) that way, you can make it a holiday for anything you want.

It's a problem though - that would mean it's not Catherine's idea ... and I kind of liked that. Having the fair/celebration a bit sooner would work, but won't be as good as it being her idea and she fully owns it.

Just when you think you're ahead ... sad

Religious holidays/saint's days - timing is out for any of the recognized ones (and I don't want to invent something new so close to reality, it will be too easy to be taken as a research fail?). I can probably change the time to coincide with one of the holidays, but not too much, otherwise it's going to be winter too soon or winter too late for Black J's book. Solstice - probably the same ... dammit, I like that one.

M's birthday ... will work.

So what do you think about Catherine proposing a fair vs. proposing to move it sooner? And it will have to be way sooner, otherwise they can just as well wait a couple of weeks or a month and hope for the best ie no input from C needed - and way sooner equals obvious but probably the same as having a surprise party.

The church needs a new roof ... that's the current excuse.

njc wrote:

I answered a couple of your questions in new review comment replies.

Thanks! Got it.

Amy, from what I know when you get that kind of c-section ie the not planned kind it's full on put you under, they wouldn't risk an epidural, so she would've been knocked out stone cold .... I call bs for this reason as well as that in my opinion the baby's head must've have crowned already for a natural birth to have happened, so no, she didn't push Olive out, he was either delivered by c-section or pulled out..

Also, 'lost the baby'? Sounds like the last thing my gyne would've said and something I might have dreamed up in my sleepy drugged out state. There are only a few places bub can be ... Now, I don't know, but you cut the uterus open, they would've seen his legs/feet at least - a c-section cut is below the bikini line - they couldn't find Olive? Bs.

This reads to me like the typical woman who doesn't want a c-section despite medical advise that her baby is in danger because 'they know better and women delivering by c-section are not really mothers/weak/taking the easy way out. She's about to find out how 'easy' a really c-section is ... I've known a few women who had both (natural followed by c-sec) and who said that natural is much easier. Not so much during giving birth, but the recovery afterwards.

I'm just glad the bub is okay!

343

(75 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic &amp; Sci-Fi)

KennedyMcF wrote:
Elisheva Free wrote:

Hey Kennedy. I'm not sure your whole first chapter got posted, unless you're updating it as you work on the chapter?

Also, we all play hookie at one time or another. wink


-Elisheva

Yeah, kind of as I'm going.  I've gotten so much amazing info at this conference that I think I might have to revamp my whole novel! I do have to do it fast though, I have an acquisitions editor interested in the finished product. I'm hoping I can just get on a roll and not stop till I'm done and ready to submit it, but I have one more day of this conference, so it will have to go slowly for another day!

I'm slowly catching up! You're on my card ... smile

There will be two contests at the fair. The idea is to have a 'grand' prize for the archery one. That's already in. (It's scary how you predict what I'm already planning to do or rather how much we think alike but overall not bad at all since it's independent support and approval that I'm on the right dirt road!)

What I like is your idea of it being planned already. So I can go with either 'not cancelling' after Geordie's death or with holding it a few weeks earlier than planned because M can't sit around and wait. Or maybe both.

When I looked at annual festivals nothing happened around this time. I'll check when it's Lizzie I's b'day. If all else fails, I'll make up an annual fair that's a Norwood tradition. I might have to ask for ideas here ...

Amy, lots of good guesses. A few REALLY good ones! You're spot on right up to the man-servant ... smile I'm not saying anything more!

The mystery isn't going to last 3 books - but all three mysteries have a 'starting point' in the first book (that's the connection between the 3 books), but each book's mystery will be revealed in that book specifically and solved in that book. I'm writing it as a series that can be read out of order and independently if that makes sense.

Mmm, just have an archery contest straight out? That is something to consider, but it might be too obvious again and not have the same sizeable crowd? The fair has purpose - the church will get a new roof - so that's easier to 'explain' than just organizing an archery contest out of the blue!

*SPOILER ALERT*    *SPOILER ALERT*

The bad guy will not be revealed at the fair (that's the major twist). But he will use the opportunity to force Matthew's hand ... I just need to get the fair chapter written and posted and then the fireworks will fly.

And also, Matthew saving Catherine, Catherine saving herself, or Catherine saving Matthew. Now the list of options is complete!

Overall, I read your comment that if the Mystery climax (pun intended) with the archery contest or shortly after, it works for you. Is that right?

And yes, you are helping and has been a great help too. You know your strengths, and you also know that with you on my side the Mystery in the Romance will be best it can be!

Appreciate it!!!

346

(75 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic &amp; Sci-Fi)

njc wrote:
amy s wrote:

Janet (no alias) is an Aussie who hates the Queen of England with more passion than I've ever seen. ... engineer for an oil company. She knows everything there is to know about our fickle country. They had a class that they made the new hires attend on how to survive being an ex-pat in America.

And just what would such a class include, I wonder?  That US speed limits are in MPH?  Not to pass a stopped school bus with its flashers on?  Not to order pizza away from a Really Major Metro Area?  To set a safety timer if you are foolish and determined enough to watch Reality TV?  Not to joke about football until three weeks after the SuperBowl and not to talk about Futbol at all?

It was so important and applicable and life changing, I have all forgotten about it! That Amy on the other hand is like an elephant in the 'memory' category. How she does it ... I wish I knew!

amy s wrote:

I just spent the past two days reading the Martian. First new book in a looooongggg time. (THANK YOU JANET!)

Oh, and I slept off whatever crud my kids brought home from school and gifted to me. So I woke up this morning with the first half of my next chapter firmly planted in my head. Time to write.

smile

Hope you get better soon!

Norm d'Plume wrote:
K. wrote:
Norm d'Plume wrote:

I just bought Lord of the Rings for Kindle. It's probably been two decades since I last read it. A chance to read it from the perspective of a writer.

Are you near the end of chapter 3 yet?

I haven't even finished your book yet. Nevertheless, I managed to begin rereading LOTR. The film version of The Fellowship of the Ring was better than the book. One of my initial complaints about the book has always been that Gandalf goes off for years (nine?), taking his sweet time when he must have at least considered the true nature of the Ring.

To be honest I've read almost nothing for weeks. Two weeks in Canada and I still don't have a driver's license or supplemental health insurance for meds. My car insurance is probably going to cost a fortune because I haven't driven in years, and in Calgary it's a must.

My boxes have separated in UPS transit. One was incorrectly marked as a gift and was hit with a customs/brokerage charge of over $100, which I refuse to pay. The rest were marked correctly but have been stuck in Winnipeg for Lord knows why. The UPS store where everything was shipped from is trying to sort it out.

The weather is great, though. I'm walking outside without even a coat on.

However, worst of all, they speak with a weird accent up here. The only thing worse would be Australian. :-)

Relatively safe for work, unless you have an old stick up your butt:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BRI-A3vakVg

*read this in my best Australian accent wink *

Ha, if it's a movie, why read the book right? Yeah, I live by the sword! tongue

*don't forget to read this in an Australian accent!*

Good luck sorting out all the 'admin'. I can share many, many tales of frustration, perseverance, and pain. Mostly caused by HR in my case, so if you're avoiding dealing with HR, trust me, it's not that bad. Except, UPS is really pushing the limits by the sound of things. Hope it gets sorted soon!

*Australian accent still going ...*

I jinx you to from now on read all my posts in an Australian accent. My special way of adapting quicker to the 'strange' accent that could be worse! wink

That vid is awesome! Love it! I also say z-et and not z-ee amongst plenty of other things! smile

349

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic &amp; Sci-Fi)

njc wrote:

Extta credit if you spot my mental typos.

The card you've used is pink? I picture you more as an off-white card kind of guy ...

Other than that, to me it reads like a pyramid wall only with less pictures. I don't read hieroglyphics either especially not in my spare time, so I'll have to wait for the TNBW post to let you know of any typos! wink

Speaking of which, the 'holiday' is over and I need to catch up this weekend!

I think you're brilliant Elisheva, you're  spot on! What is missing is the 'exactly what are we hoping for' and the 'what if it doesn't work' angles/thoughts/discussion. Easy enough to fix, thank you!!!

Basically, they do know it might not work, but deep down inside M is hoping the villain will try something during the night ie steal some more arrows or even try to kill him or Anthony. And that's not entirely clear in the chapter as it stands.

And also, before it was 'relatively' easy to steal his arrows, but now not so much with everyone on the lookout for suspicious behaviour. The bad guy can still do it, but they're covering all bases so to speak. Need to be clear on this too!

Ha! I like it when it's easy. Taking this all out would've been a b#tch.

Thank you! smile