For Janet: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20120730
LOL, I hate it when oil pumps get clogged up!
For Janet: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20120730
LOL, I hate it when oil pumps get clogged up!
Janet, I'm going through the reviews and glutting on revisions, applying the advice people have given me. Something I've never said to you…you are AMAZING at finding things that are missing… conjunctions like and and missing verbs…holy crap! You found at least 10 on a chapter. Sometimes it is harder to see what is missing than what is there. Good job!
A
*blushes prettily*
*blushes some more*
AMAZING?!
*bore big toe into sand, smiling shyly*
Awhhh!!!! THANKS!!!!! I'm glad I'm helping every now and again.
Thanks for letting me know!
*does a happy dance*
You're pretty amazing too, you know?!
Karin, that is a really good, complete response!
I tend to agree - if we take away any and all persuasion, it would be tragic. A loud and clear 'No' and the other person is still trying to change the other person's mind (and ESPECIALLY after a few more 'NO!!!!'s', each louder and stronger later), is the loud and clear boundary in my opinion that that has just moved to coercion and rape, even if the other person then say yes to get rid of the someone. In this case, it would be wise to rather not do it.
Fragile state of mind is a really tricky one. For one, how would the other person know that? So definitely more of the 'grey-er' areas.
I think "Yes means yes" is THE best solution to the problem instead of "No means no". Where I think it (can go) goes wrong is:
Is it California that now has something in place where two parties need to sign a mutually agree upon piece of paper (a contract of some sorts) these days? And I'm not sure if it includes which positions are allowed, where you can and can't touch the other person, etc. Apart from by the time you're done with writing and signing the bloody thing, any notion of romance and sex are probably killed dead-dead (it will take some serious skill to get back in the mood!), if anyone change their mind mid-way through for good reason (e.g. anal or rough sex with which you were clear upfront you're not comfortable with and you're saying so), if the other person then doesn't stop, it's rape according to me. But now the other part has a signed and agreed document that proves it's consensual .... Murky, murky waters!
I suspect the "Yes means yes" approach is maybe working too well for some (feminists mostly). I've been seeing, reading, and hearing a lot of noise about consensual sex where the woman cries rape the next day leaving the guy baffled. The reason is, and I paraphrase, 'the sex was bad and in the clear light of day I changed my mind'. Not before or during sex, THE NEXT DAY. Some (feminists mostly) are pushing for this to be categorized as rape too.
I suspect porn and the higher prevalence of one-night stands/first date sex/sex within 1-3 months even are probably contributing to this issue more than anything else. Gone are the days where couples took the time to get to know each other and each other's bodies in various ways without actual penetration ... Knowing before you sleep with a guy whether he really is gentle and caring because he has shown you it over time many times over. Knowing before you sleep with a woman whether she has had any bad experiences, her likes and dislikes, her body language ... It takes away so much of these 'modern' day problems IMO. But I digress.
Like you say, this is a complex issue. Now bring in the individual aspect where we all had different experiences and exposure to the other sex, and it gets real complicated really quick.
What is rape?
Is it only when someone is physically forced or does it also extend to coercion and manipulation also? And if so, when does 'trying to change someone's mind' become coercive or manipulative? What if the person is in a fragile mental state to begin with?
These are interesting questions, especially if we, as Romance writers, want to avoid rape as well as the 'borderline' questionable kind of situations in our writing. Times are changing in regard to this. For example, marital rape has only been recently recognized as a crime for example and still not everywhere, but at least there is some progress.
So what do you all think?
What Amy was saying was too hard was the altered way
Worse his mother before a slaze
But this is another error of mine.
It should be:
Worse, he mother before slaze
Which actually makes no sense.
I agree with Amy here. And with you too - if I read this in dialogue, I won't correct it, because I'd assume you know what you want to do with it.
And also, I have never doubted the authenticity of your writing. It's clear as daylight that you have done tons of research! Combined with your 'voice', it's a masterpiece. There, I said it. It is.
You're missing something or someone K .... mmm, wonder who and what? I don't know ... If I did, I'd give you a clue ... Now that I think about it, it's time for a cattle prod. I haven't seen a review from you in a long time ... *wiggles eyebrows and squints at K* How far away from Edmonton are you? Double the distance, and it's still not enough when I get mad, real mad ... *just kidding!* maybe-ish *grins*
Speaking of keeping them short, in my world, I need the person to go to the 50th floor and I'm pushing ALL the buttons ... Best I have is like 4-5 sentences ... which is a blurb, not a pitch. grrrrr, so I need all the time I can get. But I'm still working on it ...
And K. isn't happy if your protagonist isn't the last man standing.
K is more murdering than hurting though! LOL
It was the last time John opened a door without knocking first.
I'm somewhere in the middle. Whether it is grammar or spelling it doesn't matter, my point is to not to overdo it to the point that it is grating or become the focus (because the reader is more trying to figure out what is being said than reading). Basically, anything will be okay, but keep it subtle.
Also, just mentioning she has an accent is also okay. It's tricky though to keep reminding readers of her accent though without also becoming overbearing. But it's also an option in addition to using different grammar or spelling.
At the end of the day, this is what makes writing so hard sometimes - there's a million different ways to do something and choosing the best way isn't all that straightforward. For me, I'm always double-guessing whether I'm doing the right thing and wondering whether X instead of Y won't work better. Both works, but I guess this is where some books become award winners and receive widespread acclaim and others don't. I try not to stress too much about it as I just want my stories to be read. It's not so much about awards and acclaim. Others' mileage may vary.
All that said, what you've been doing so far works for me Rebecca. You already have a very distinct (historical) voice. I don't think it can be improved because it's already that good. But don't let me limit you. I have a lot of confidence in your ability to make anything work (even better despite what I think)!
Okay, got what MIGHT be a workable battle progression. I'll see after about ten hours of recuperative sleep.
I also have another half-dozen plot notes for the future. What I mean to do to good people will give me nightmares. But bad guys must have consequences. (Amy, I'm considering one of your suggestions.)
Good intentions without the direction of Practical Wisdom also have consequences.
Amy is also on my case to hurt my characters more, so I'm so with you!
(Jealous)
Goes without saying, a VIP pass has your name on it! So I hope you're ready to rub shoulders with A-listers! LOL And also, given that I've sold millions of copies, I'll pay for the flights, hotels and wine!
Bring out the pompoms and I'll cheer while you write, 'kay?
-Elisheva
I'll reserve one visitor pass to the set just for you! LOL
On another note (180 degree change in subject), I found two possibilities to play Matthew in the movie (that NEEDS to happen as I would love to meet them LOL) ...
#1 Sullivan Stapleton (Aussie Aussie Aussie)
Might have to darken his hair, but that's doable vs changing his eye colour
But he might be too old by the time I finish writing LOL
#2 Tyler Hoechlin
Good alternative, very close to #1 ...
And saw Rose Leslie in The Last Witch Hunter ... I think she might work pretty good for Catherine
So now I just need to write the books, sell 50 million copies and wait for the movie deals to roll in! LOL
Work is still the same. In 3 months, I don't know what my job will be, where I will be working, what my pay rate will be, or who I will be working with. In other words, I'm rather unsettled right now.
You and Dirk had better meet on one of these trips! Drink a glass for me!
Work sounds shitty. And def not the way to treat people. *shakes head* Next voucher is for wine.
Work is still the same. In 3 months, I don't know what my job will be, where I will be working, what my pay rate will be, or who I will be working with. In other words, I'm rather unsettled right now.
You and Dirk had better meet on one of these trips! Drink a glass for me!
Calgary is within driving distance. It would be AWESOME to see Cal and Dirk. But who will drive? LOL I have driven recently, but he's used to driving on the wrong side of the road!
amy s wrote:I find it hard. Maybe because the other words have normal grammar and order. It doesn't read like Mark Twain writing Huck Finn. If there was a word/verb switch or hyphenations, this might be easier
Agh! I hate Huck Finn!
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I can't change the grammar for Prince Drest who would have learn Brythonic as a child by the best tutors, but I could for Queen Muiredach who was born a commoner and had to learn Latin as an adult. It would read like this:
You are going to Pictland, Pendragon?
Would be:
You go-later to Pictland, Pendragon?Haz you met a Pictii besides myself?
Would be:
You meet-before Pictii not me?We are strange ones to you Britannae. Not alike at all. You do not speak /Maetae/ do you?
Would be:
We strange to you Britannae. Not same. You speak not /Maetae/?You do not speak Pictish.
Would be:
You speak not Pictish.Is this more clear? To hard to read?
Agree with Amy. This works as a very distinct 'voice'.
AJ Reid wrote:Rebecca Vaughn wrote:If I state in the narration that the person spoke with a "Pictish accent" would that help?
This will help. And also, and this is open for debate, why not consider only a word here or there as opposed to each and every word? Does this make sense?
It does
But "v" is not that common a letter (at least not in in my dialogue!). If I only did half of the Pictii "z"s, would it be enough to perceive an accent?
I think there are only eight words that have a "v" that the Pictii characters use, live, have, advantage, slave, very, ever, Eva, and I think one other.
Reason behind my suggestion is that it might not necessarily be the 'accent' that is the issue, but more the overuse of 'strange' words ... less is sometimes better. Eight words seem not too bad, but if you use 2-3 of them in one sentence, it might get 'grating' to read i.e. not so much difficult to understand, just 'grating'.
Elisheva Free wrote:When I know the accent is there, it is easy to read. Without knowing there's an accent, I feel like you've made a strange typo or created a new word. Might just be me, though.
-Elisheva
If I state in the narration that the person spoke with a "Pictish accent" would that help?
This will help. And also, and this is open for debate, why not consider only a word here or there as opposed to each and every word? Does this make sense?
Can the need be linked to some damage related (overtly or covertly) to the villian?
Deliberately? Because that would require them having to know who the villain is ...
Dirk, I was pretty close to you valley this week for work, like in *spitting* driving distance ... Went to Edmonton as some of the engineering for my projects will be done from there. It sounds like I'll be taking a few trips this year too. Not good for writing, but good for work and great to see a bit more of Canada! Didn't have time for any touristy stuff this time around ... Hopefully next time!
So I have a lot of catching up to do ... The good news is that I have created a spreadsheet (K will be super proud) to manage my reviews because I just have no idea who I owe how many when. In that regard the old site was a little bit better, but I have a new plan!
njc, hope you're better!
Amy, how's work?! Still the same?
And the rest of you?! Except K, it's hard work to be mysterious!
Yes, ma'am.
However, I just realized that I can't publish until we get to hang out. Only after I get my bottle of wine will I consider taking the plunge and talking to a publisher. (How did I manage to put that back on you? I'm brilliant! :-)
Ha! Better start polishing them then and make sure you have enough ... I haven't seen one recently, I might have missed it ...
That would be Bimmy? It couldn't be me. I'm just writing a couple posts a week about Autism. I figured it was good practice and setup when I make the short stories into a book.
Fixed.
You have to make it happen. One day, maybe not today, but def one day!
I'm taking the whole thing under advisement.
I'll shut up now and go and review someone else
I disagree with him all the time. Mainly on my reviews of his own work, where he informs me why my advice is wrong. The interesting part is when he changes my mind and makes me agree about his choices. It doesn't happen a lot, but I learn a lot when it does. Then I throw a shoe at my keyboard.
I go through a lot of keyboards this way.
I keep on missing my keyboard, that's the good news. The wall on the other hand, not looking so good.
I guess this means I have to give you a good review on Amazon?
I will only accept a 5 star rating. Nothing less.