Chesterton wrote that the essence of prose is that the words mean what they say, and the essence of poetry is that the words mean things they do not say.

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

You are confused on the meaning of genre. It is a predictor of the story arc and to a lesser extent the sorts of characters and thematic content...

You say that I am confused.
I say that I disagree.
And, unfortunately I may not have the time to carry this discussion with you through.  But you deserve to know that I have not accepted your definitions and instruction.

Ch 40 reviewed.  I hit rather more points than I expected.   I'll pick it up after I've gotten some sleep and covered some necessary errands.

It's taking me a little time to pick up on Cobber's style so I won't be arguing against it.  This evening is spoken for.  Give me 'til 13:00 Eastern to get something up.

1,355

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Norm d'Plume wrote:

He's secretly the man behind BB-8, although I'm not sure how he meshed his filbert flange with his grapple grommet. Throw in a Samsung battery and you can have a barbecue. Oooh! French fried humans! I'll need a new weapon from Acme.

You need to replace the grapple grommet with a self-sealing stem bolt.  That doesn't care if you've got a filbert flange or a groelder shoulder.

Book 2, of course.

I'm getting more from your story than I'm giving.

I'm not yet pulling my weight here, so consider this an announcement for the interested.

I just put up a second new chapter in The Sorcerer's Progress.  Most of you know there's a lot incomplete and disconnected in these two books.

The first new chapter is in Book 2, Earth By Fire.  It's Chapter 15, The Garden of End and Beginning.  The second I put in Book 1 Children and Beasts, more by accident than choice.  It's a vignette for several volumes hence.  Chapter 94, A Lesson with Kirsey.

The Garden of End and Beginning is almost 5k words.  A Lesson with Kirsey is about 840.

1,358

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

I've put two chapters up.  The first jumps two chapters forward from where we are.  The second is a glimpse into the future, several volumes hence.

Book 2, Ch15, The Garden of End and Beginning.  Amy, let's see how I do on description.

Book 1 (by accident; I meant to hang it off B2), Ch 93: A Lesson with Kirsey.

From The Passive Voice, how self-publishing is taking over e-books, with Amazon's help.

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
njc wrote:

A start can be strong in many ways.  It can make us curious about a character.  It can create a personal or global jeopardy.  It can convince the reader that the writer has something to offer.  ...

All of which leads to subjective judgement.  The hardest part of review/comment on TNBW for a reader who has particular tastes--and I am not sure there are any readers who don't--is fairly judge something of a genre which is uninteresting to him. The best author of X genre cannot make an X-genre hater like his stuff unless his "strongest start" is to fool the reader into thinking it is not in X genre, only later to disappoint.

I disagree.

I'll start by way of analogy.  There are many foods and seasonings which I do not like.  My tolerance for vinegar is low, for instance, and I find avacado repulsive or worse.  But I've found that a really good cook####chef can turn these horribles into something I will enjoy, by subduing the worst and making what remains complement the other ingredients in the dish.

It is possible for a work to transcend its genre.  It is possible for a work to avoid the genre's excesses and use what remains as part of a larger whole.  To take extreme examples, compare Tolkien with Craig Shaw Gardener.  Both write 'fantasy', but Gardener writes humorous camp.  Morals tomorrow, comedy tonight!  For a more up-to-date example, Dave Freer's Tom is glorious camp.  If it's not your thing, fine.  Not everybody can taste the difference between Nathan's Famous and Hot Dog Johnny's.  (Both are good, and if you're near Hackettstown NJ, so is Johnny's, on US 46 in Butzville.)  And not everyone likes hot dogs.  Enjoy your omlette, sir.  But I'm sure that if a true cordon bleu chef ever stuffed seasoned meat into a sausage casing and called it a frankfurter you would be wise to try it.

AJ Reid has a story on this site that she styles a Romance (modern meaning).  It's also a period mystery/adventure.  I've been pounding her on the ROMANCE!!! excesses, principally on the puppy-piled participles smothering the subjects and predicates, and I think she's now got a story that can be enjoyed by ROMANCE!!! readers and non-ROMANCE!!! partisans alike.  It's not Ellery Queen, but I've read far weaker mysteries published by major houses.

1,361

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

What you're describing is more like Kirsey wink  I don't really have time, but I have an idea for Merran's first lesson with Kirsey.  (I do plan to get here there, somehow.)  The scene is in Kirsey's cottage, but I might write it for someplace else, just to try.  Aach!  I've got so many neat isolated ideas, but I need the fill between them.

1,362

(1,217 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Then use Tirpitz.

If "strongest start" is measured solely by the effect of the first chapters on the reader, it must be subjectives, since a given chapter will affect different readers differently.  Even if it were possible to point to the development of character and theme, you can't tell how subsequent chapters will modify that development or develop a latent theme.

1,364

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Oh, and I found two errors in my layout for electronic project #3.  When those were fixed the parts in that part of the board were packed too tightly.  It took three hours to straighten that out. wink

1,365

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Okay, a chapter finally out there.  Not everything I wanted, and as long as I feared.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times ...

A Dialogue with Bill and Mike, by Sarah Hoyt at The Mad Genius Club.

Having tantalized us, Corra, will you please tell us what that's from?

What is a strong start?  What does "Most Valuable Player" mean?  Valuable in what way?

A start can be strong in many ways.  It can make us curious about a character.  It can create a personal or global jeopardy.  It can convince the reader that the writer has something to offer.  It can make the reader curious about what is to follow.  It can be the voice of a first-person narrator that makes the reader wonder what sort of story this character will tell.  (Think of the opening of Huckleberry Finn, or of the best of the hard-boiled first-person detective stories.)

Dorothy Sayers does not begin with a knife and a corpse.  Neither does Agatha Christie, nor John Dickson Carr.  I'm thinking right now of the opening chapter of Ellery Queen's Double Double, which sets up a strong (strongly-drawn) character, a strong reaction, and a strong character axis, and thereby creates multiple levels of jeopardy that unfold through the story.

The very literary P. D. James generally begins with her detective character.  So do many 'lesser' genre writers.

Wilkie Collins begins The Woman in White with the description of a woman (not the woman in white).  There's a subtext that runs opposite the written word, and the reader feels it personally rather than judging it.

So do we measure 'strong' by how lurid it is, or the horrors it creates, or by the wonders it promises, or by how well it convinces the reader to invest time and caring in the story that follows?

I would think a thriller might also qualify, depending on how much the opening promises.

1,370

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Last night I couldn't sleep.  I went to finish off project #2, putting the circuit board on the platform, connecting the output, connecting the battery holders.

And then, just as I was almost sleepy, I tested it.  It didn't work, and it was draining the batteries so hard their voltage dropped nearly to zero.  (These are AAAs, so it's not too hard to do that.)  So I had to debug it.  In the process, I disconnected the undervolt circuits, in case something was wrong there--yes, I was getting desperate.   I dismounted the circuit board, still wired in place, so I could get a better look at it.  Eventually a wire popped up--the base (control) feed for the bootstrap transistor.  Somehow I'd torn it loose, and who knows what it was making contact with.  I put it back in its proper place, dodging the transistor's heatsink (mounted over transistor and board like a drooping mushroom cap) to solder it in, more securely this time.  It worked, and I put it mostly back together.  I still have to replace the undervolt monitor connections, and with the board in its present state, I should probably put a thinner tip on my soldering pencil for that.  It's a crowded little sucka.

Anyhow, when that was done, I still wasn't able to sleep.  I got to sleep at about 08:00, so I also got up late on Tuesday ... you get the picture.

I've spent the last few hours reading, doing a little reviewing, and mulling project #3.  Now back to The Garden of End and Beginning.

Just joined here.  Looked at Ch 41;  I can't do much of a review w/out going back to the start.  I'll see what I can do, but no promises.

1,372

(1,217 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

That's not minimalist.  That's scorched earth.  Are you afraid to devote loving care to your characters, preferring instead to make them into unworthy disposables?

1,373

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

I've just spent over an hour chasing the notes I need.  The critical part is a week back in my notebook, and not quite as complete as I thought.  I have to be up relatively early; let's see how much I can get done.  I'm still missing parts of it.

For the end of the world was long ago
And all we live today
As children of some second birth
Like a strange people left on earth
After a judgement day.
(Look it up.)

I just thought of how to wend the chapter to the end.  We'll see if I can pull it off.

PS: If anyone wants to help I'm struggling with the next chapter's title. Something like Sideshow or Midway, but with the flavor of Dr. Lao.

1,374

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Once again I just get fully immersed in the scenes I have to write when the evening catches up with me!  Anyway, the provisional title for this chapter is The Garden of End and Beginning.  Not The Man Who Was Thursday but it will do.

1,375

(1,528 replies, posted in Fantasy/Magic & Sci-Fi)

Janet (AJ) Reid wrote:

I thought it was before and after pics, before I realised it's above and below pics! smile It's been a while since I've played with electronics ... almost 30 years. yikes

You need another hundred or so Rankines for the lead-free solder.  I'm using tin-silver-copper at 700 degrees Farenheit.