Potential changes to the point system (Page 1 of 2)

Hi Sol. Would TNBW Free still be non-points group? If not, how should we post so that free members see our work? I currently post to TNBW Premium and TNBW Free on the assumption that free members can't see Premium posts.

Are my assumptions incorrect?

Thanks.
Dirk

Should we make TheNextBigWriter only a pay site and remove the free functionality?

Hi, Sol—
I keep imagining you scurrying around, trying to fix everything for everyone.  It’s impossible.  Sit back, chill out, have a margarita!  I’ll give you my thoughts while you relax.
1.    GOOD IDEA.  I like the idea of only paying once.  I can’t afford the hundreds it costs to repost in another group.  The purpose of posting in a group is so like-minded people can critique each other’s work.
2.     BAD IDEA.  And here’s why: when I joined, I had no idea how to give a review.  If I had tried, it would have been a waste of time for me and any author whose works I reviewed.  I posted my first story, and waited to hear what people said.  Those first points are not only a kindness, they’re a teaching tool for newbies.
3.    BAD IDEA.  Why complicate further something that is already a can of worms, nest of snakes, etc.?  Is everybody so immature they can’t wait to see how things work themselves out?  Let people learn to live with things before making any more changes.  We’ve only been at the new site two months.  Simplify, simplify!
You asked for my thoughts.  Have another drink—I’m sure there’s more to come.
JP

The issue is I'm not sure how good of an experience it is now for a free member. Most of you probably would have come on as a free member. You would post your content to check it out without paying points. And then, you wouldn't get much feedback. So, what would you do? Would you then search around and realize you can upgrade and join a premium group, or would you just leave? I suspect most would just leave. But let me know what you think you would have done.

Sol, I agree with Jack and KHipp - Eliminate the free group. Five bucks a month is hardly worth anyone balking over if they're actually serious about workshopping their writing.

And no, I've never been reviewed by a free member.

On a related topic: I've gotten reviews from the drive-bys who are here for contests and need the points, and their reviews are generally as meaningful as their short-term membership...

Thanks, Sol, for doing what you do.

Sol, I was a member of a couple of free groups before I came here. Of course that was over a year ago. (Yes I was trying to keep up with three groups for a while) The way those other systems worked is that you had to wait for a spot to open up before your content was posted, then you still had to pay points, and the most you ever had one chapter or story read was 3-4, then it was off the board. If you make changes, you have to repost, and new readers could not read your first chapters if they came in late. Trust me, when I saw the way this group worked, I jumped on it. Yes I paid right away, but I was also invited by Ann Everett (best friend a writer could have)

My suggestion is this, let free members remain free for a period of time. If there is a way to track how many times they post reviews, or post content, keep up with it, and if they aren't reviewing, hit them with a consequence.

I learned how to critique by doing it, and reading the amazing critiques on my Big Hearts. The answers I received back on the old site set me straight pretty fast on how to critique and how not to.

Bottom line, if the only way to draw in new members is to have a short time of free membership, I say let them in. But make it appealing to upgrade to premium. Some folks are simply too unsure of themselves to pay money right away, and some folks may not be able to afford it. I go without extra twinkies so I can keep up my membership!!!

Just my 2 cents worth, use or toss to suit the needs of the site.

Write On!
MzP

Hi Sol

Complicated issue, good luck with this one!  Here is my view on the whole thing.  Hope it helps.

I have been reviewed by ONE free member - and not from the Free group, but from a different group that doesn't pay points.  I thanked them kindly for their review, recip'ed and told them if they really want to get value from this site (and more reviews, me included), they should do reviews that pay points and post in a group that pays points.  Turned out they are serious about writing and reviewing, and did just that.  Turned into a great new reciprocal relationship, but alas, the only one from a free group (not the Free group). 

Since the new site launch, all my new friends have come from the premium group.  But these results are skewed because I don't post to the Free group.  Why you ask.  Because there are more than enough new members joining the Premium group who I think, given that they are paying members, should be looked after first.  Am I potentially missing great reviews and new friends from the Free group?  Sure, I have no doubt.  But my perception/gut feel is it is much easier to get good reviews/friends from the Premium group than sifting through I don't know how many free accounts to get to that special one.  I don't have the time even though I have the points.

That's one question answered.

When I joined the old site, you needed points to post.  I joined as a "Reviewer" (free member) and started doing reviews to build a point balance to be able to do so.  Never having done a review before in my life was not a barrier to do so either.  I read other reviews and the forums to learn how to do it as well as from the replies to my reviews.  So you don't need to be reviewed to learn how to review IMO.  It worked out well for me - I can't see why it won't work out well for others too - whether you just review or pay, post and review.

So in my opinion, get rid of it.  Another option would be to keep it like it was on the old site.  Free members can review and earn points, but need to go Premium to post and be reviewed.  If someone is willing to pay, it's already a good indication that they are serious.

My 2 cents - so just a couple more to go, and you can go and buy yourself that drink you so need by now! 

Cheers
Janet R

Asking someone to start reviewing first isn't a bad idea.  If you can't find works you feel competent to review, and that you feel comfortable reviewing, you're not going to be able to participate.

What about allowing someone who's earned points as a free member to use a few of them--maybe 25?--to post and see if he gets useful reviews?  But they should be earned.

If a Free group member (1)can’t receive/ read in-line reviews, (2) has to read and review more than Premium group members before they can post, and (3) has to pay extra points to post, how will they know what the benefits of Premium membership are?  Keep it simple—offer everybody a free trial period and a small number of free points, whether they sign up right away as Premium groupies or just want to check the site out.  Equal treatment for everybody.  No segregation.  No Free Group.  JP

Sol just decided to move the free group to Booksie...I don't know what else he could do without making the system so complex no one understood it. So...the site is back to the way it was before we moved...

To add to what Gacela said.  The points system not only encourages reviews, the premium group is where the most reciprocal relationships exist - and without those relationships, you would never realise the full value/strength or see the full potential of this site.  Some say it's hard to break into the "old" group, but it hasn't been my experience.  They are very open to new members and very helpful, but only if you return the favour and you also need to be patient, as everyone only has so much time.  As Sol said on the other thread, it is expensive to move from free to premium if you have a lot of work you want to move to a points group.  All this obviously just support Sol's decision to get rid of the complexity.  It would be interesting to see whether the number of members joining the premium group remains the same with the free group gone.  But personally, I don't think there would be a noticeable impact.  My opinion of course!

Thanks for all of the comments. Starting tomorrow, registration will be changed in the following way:

- All new members will receive 30 days of Premium Membership and defaulted into TheNextBigWriter Premium Group.
- New members will be given 10 starter points.
- TheNextBigWriter Free Group will be closed to new members. The site will continue to operate for the time-being although we may eventually close it.
- Free Members will only be able to join 1 group.

In about a week, we will have modified  the point system so that once content is posted in one group, it can be posted in any other point group.  At that point, I'm hoping we can convert most free groups to point groups. Once that happens, free posting will be mostly eliminated. There may be situations where non-points groups are warranted, such as classes or small critique groups. We have preserved free posting capability to support these types of situations. But in general, free posting will be severely curtailed, especially with new members.

Thanks again for your feedback! As you can see, we listen.

Sol