1,051 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-07 17:54:56)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

I never said he was free from sin. He sins just by being part of the conspiracy. I said he wasn't inherently evil from birth. He's a human like any other, but with supernatural powers woven into his DNA by Satan, who also wasn't evil from the start. However, Satan's manipulations of Connor's DNA included imprinting Connor with a very powerful (and unnatural) bond toward Satan, which Satan then exploited, trying to mold Connor in Satan's image, at a time when Satan had removed Connor fom his family, who would've given him a loving upbringing with a totally different set of values. Connor has to overcome all that if he's going to destroy Satan, a being he loves because of the imprinting and because Satan was the only person who ever told Connor he loved him.

1,052 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-08 03:39:56)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

George wrote:

I might be wrong, but I imagine that most people would say - Satan has sex with a woman through a zombie man, therefore evilness is passed to the kid. Especially, if the kid is the AC. Are you over thinking this? The spiritual side of Connor should be powerful to manipulate the physical world.

And of course! This is just brainstorming!

I forgot to answer this. I'm not overthinking this. It was an easy decision and a simple, elegant, and complete solution. I chose human DNA as the way to pass on superpowers to Connor. If I had made it spiritual powers, then how would that have worked (see my previous posts where I discuss other possible options and the challenges with them)?

My way ensures that Connor gets his powers from Satan, is also human, and is not inherently evil. The fact that Satan used his powers to animate a zombie and rape Campagna, inseminating her with zombie DNA, does not in any way explain how evilness could have passed to Connor. Answer: It didn't. He's human, he sins, he's under Satan's powerful influence as a child, but he is not intrinsically evil. Any human in Connor's place would have almost certainly turned evil, but Connor is partially protected by his ancient soul, which has the benefit of having lived in Old Testament times and has a strong sense of right and wrong, even while only just beginning to reawaken.

Since Satan altered the DNA in the zombie sperm, I choose to refer to Connor as part demon and as having inherited his powers from Satan. Technically, he "inherited" nothing from Satan in the way we think of inherited, not even anything demon like. But it's as close as a demon can come in my story to creating a human offspring.

Although there are a number of ways to pick apart my solution as not being biblical, my story is on a different timeline that does not require me to arrive at the same outcome as our version of Revelation. Within my story's universe, it holds together with all the other elements of my universe. And if offers a simple explanation of how all this is possible without handwaving.

This is the best I can come to explaining my reasoning to you, George. If you don't buy it, we'll have to agree to disagree. And there's plenty more to disagree on, including how a soul could have multiple personalities and reincarnation of the ancient biblical figure.

In case anyone is interested, the identity of the biblical figure is given in the final chapter of the first draft. Can you find it? I practically hit the reader over the head with it, although readers won't realize that until they learn Connor is a reincarnated being.

1,053

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

George wrote:

I might be wrong, but I imagine that most people would say - Satan has sex with a woman through a zombie man, therefore evilness is passed to the kid. Especially, if the kid is the AC. Are you over thinking this? The spiritual side of Connor should be powerful to manipulate the physical world.

I should have my head examined. Having spent at least 1.5 pages of this thread arguing why DNA -based powers are the best solution for Connor, I keep thinking about George's suggested alternative above.

What if I simply ignore the fact that there is no physical element (DNA) to explain Connor's powers but rely instead on the heinousness of his conception to transfer some of Satan's evil and powers spiritually? The evil act is Satan using a dead body to rape Campagna, thereby making Connor at least spiritually descended from Satan, even though Connor contains no actual demon from his conception.

Advantages:
- Connor is more demon like, rather than a human with modified DNA for his powers
- Connor truly inherits something from Satan, making Connor at least partially evil, which is a part of his nature he then needs to overcome as well
- Connor would have as part of his corrupted nature the "element" that makes him the Antichrist (a human with a partially evil spirit)

Issues:
- this is a handwavy solution that makes no effort to explain how some of Satan's evil can pass from Satan through Campana into Connor
- what does it mean for a human to be spiritually descended from Satan? Does this mean Connor's spirit somehow becomes demonic, even though Connor is no actual demon; his DNA is human as should be his spirit
- if I consider the heinousness of the act something that corrupts Connor's spirit in the womb, I then have to do one of the following:
1) I have to explain the difference between a soul and a human spirit; Satan corrupts Connor's spirit but not his soul, two concepts that many Christians, as far as I can tell, generally don't distinguish; most times only the soul is mentioned, although technically we have both, at least in Catholicism; or,
2) I can tie the corruption to Connor's soul and not even mention his spirit; the tricky part of this approach is that Connor's soul is already serving multiple purposes in the story; it's actually the soul of an ancient being, the soul is reshaped into two distinct personalities (Connor vs the biblical character) during the course of the story, it's what allows Satan to transfer his powers to Connor via the soul, and Connor's powers are then driven entirely by his soul.
- Problem is, how does the transfer of evil affect the biblical figure who shares his soul with Connor? This same question applies even if I place the evil into Connor's spirit rather than into his soul; also, is Connor's spirit the same as the biblical figure's spirit?
- there would be no ability by Satan to manipulate Connor's DNA to imprint into Connor a strong bond/dependence upon Satan.

Just the process of writing this up shows how many issues/questions have to be addressed. Trying to distinguish soul from spirit is a complexity I prefer not to add to the story. And having the soul serve all of the aforementioned purposes is "purpose overload" in my opinion.

I think I'm still much better off with a DNA based solution. It's far less complex. George, in case you're wondering if all of the above issues really need answers, they do since many of those issues will definitely arise in the story I have planned. And the answers have to make sense and be consistent with answers to other issues. To me, the complexity outweighs the advantages.

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

As I've thought this over, I agree with you. People will ask "How on earth did that happen?" So, an explanation attempt is a good direction to go. Will everyone be happy with what you come up with? Probably not. But like what you write. And keep on writing.

1,055 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-13 08:00:28)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Quandary. I seem to have a recurring problem with the Connor series in that there simply aren't enough strong female characters. The biblical figure who serves as Connor's soul, had a female companion, and both played important roles in the events of the distant past. Since the male figure returns as Connor, I considered giving him a girlfriend, who happens to be his former companion. I didn't care for that much since it's a huge coincidence (although God could have arranged it that way), and it would add yet another reincarnation to the story, which further deviates from Catholicism. And I can't really think of an important role for her. She'd be worse than useless if I simply shoehorn her into the story without a real purpose of her own.

Connor does have a girlfriend early in book two, but Connor keeps her around primarily to annoy Satan (since Connor is supposed to be Christ). Made worse by the fact that she's into goth, with an outrageous look. And they have sex regularly. And Connor is intentionally not very discreet about her. Tsk. Tsk. I don't see turning Ms. Goth into an important character since one of her purposes is for De Rosa to send her away, to be replaced later by someone even worse.

I do have Dr. Lombardi, who headed the Papal Research team in book one, who I could bring back and increase her importance. In the next draft of book one, I can leave her as is but make her the head of the demon-hunting team at the end, replacing De Rosa, after his true identity is revealed. Still nowhere near as important as Campagna.

Also, I have yet to think of an important role for Father Romano.

And I definitely have to bring Connor's biblical companion into the story. She was present back then and equally responsible for the disaster that occurred. To avoid another reincarnation, I could bring her into the story in her "glorified" body, which (some?) Christians believe we'll all get.

Returning characters include:

Connor
Maria Campana
Satan/De Rosa
Father (Bishop) Romano (exact role is TBD)
Pope-in-Exile Nnamani
Antonio the ghost (his exact role is TBD)
Moses & Elijah (their exact roles are TBD)
Dr. Lombardi

EDIT: One possibility is that the female biblical figure is already on Earth in book one. In fact, she could be in her glorified form as Dr. Lombardi, which would have been what she's looked like thousands of years ago. I would then either keep Connor from seeing/encountering her so he doesn't recognize her from the past, or I could rely on the fact that Connor's soul still hasn't fully awakened.

1,056

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

I seem to have a recurring problem with the Connor series in that there simply aren't enough strong female characters.

Given the massive headaches you already have to deal with, this one may be something you simply lean into / roll with.

Consider also the eyebrows-raises I got for having female angels

1,057 (edited by George FLC 2024-03-13 13:56:20)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Kdot wrote:

I seem to have a recurring problem with the Connor series in that there simply aren't enough strong female characters.

Given the massive headaches you already have to deal with, this one may be something you simply lean into / roll with.

Consider also the eyebrows-raises I got for having female angels

Interesting. I've heard that female angels are never in the Bible. That might not be the case considering Zech. 5:9. However, Frank Perretti came out with his Darkness series and there was a female angel.

1,058 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-13 16:23:51)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Kdot wrote:

I seem to have a recurring problem with the Connor series in that there simply aren't enough strong female characters.

Given the massive headaches you already have to deal with, this one may be something you simply lean into / roll with.

That's what Tylenol is for. smile

I think the best solution is for Connor's former companion to come to Earth in her glorified body. While there is nothing in Scripture that says humans would ever do that, it would be less offensive than adding yet another reincarnated being.

If I were to make it Dr. Lombardi, then she's in the story from book one, and I can make her a more prominent character, dropping hints that she's more than she seems. Although it would be odd that she and Satan didn't recognize each other as supernatural beings, especially since she would look the same as she did when she lived millennia ago (except young again).

The other alternative is to introduce a new character from book two on. Although I wouldn't reveal her true identity until the end of book two or somewhere in book three, she could be there to assist Connor in some TBD way. He wouldn't fully recognize her from his former life because his soul doesn't fully awaken until the end of book two.

I also need to find a meaty role for Romano and Antonio. I may get rid of Antonio permanently after book one.

1,059

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Why is that a problem?

1,060

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

The original problem is the lack of strong female characters in my Connor series, except of course for Connor's mother, Detective Campagna. She's the Princess Leia of my trilogy (ie, no other major female character in the whole trilogy).

The rest of what's written above is just me brainstorming/writing up potential solutions to the problem.

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Dirk B. wrote:
Kdot wrote:

I seem to have a recurring problem with the Connor series in that there simply aren't enough strong female characters.

Given the massive headaches you already have to deal with, this one may be something you simply lean into / roll with.

That's what Tylenol is for. smile

I think the best solution is for Connor's former companion to come to Earth in her glorified body. While there is nothing in Scripture that says humans would ever do that, it would be less offensive than adding yet another reincarnated being.

If I were to make it Dr. Lombardi, then she's in the story from book one, and I can make her a more prominent character, dropping hints that she's more than she seems. Although it would be odd that she and Satan didn't recognize each other as supernatural beings, especially since she would look the same as she did when she lived millennia ago (except young again).

The other alternative is to introduce a new character from book two on. Although I wouldn't reveal her true identity until the end of book two or somewhere in book three, she could be there to assist Connor in some TBD way. He wouldn't fully recognize her from his former life because his soul doesn't fully awaken until the end of book two.

I also need to find a meaty role for Romano and Antonio. I may get rid of Antonio permanently after book one.

I'd not put Lombardi with a glorified body. And I agree that Satan would probably have known who she was. And you're probably correct in wanting another strong woman.

1,062 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-13 23:02:31)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

SPOILER ALERT: Just so I can stop dancing around this topic, Connor's soul is that of Adam, and his companion is the glorified form of Eve.

I'd love to place Eve into Connor's inner circle, there to watch over him and to simultaneously work against the Unholy Trinity while pretending to be part of the conspiracy all along. That would give her a great role. She could wear a Mission Impossible-style mask that looks like Dr. Lombardi for the decade+ that she's known De Rosa and been part of his conspiracy; she'd also have to disguise her voice, but she's had a few thousand years to practice that. The reason Satan doesn't recognize he's dealing with a glorified individual in a mask is because Eve/Lombardi is able to hide the glorified element of herself using limited powers Eve received when she was glorified. Sort of like Emperor Palpatine was able to stand before Jedi and hide his true nature.

Since Satan told Romano at the end of book one that God's minions were forbidden from interfering as part of the rules agreed to between God and Satan, I'll need to figure out an exception for her that doesn't break the rules.

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Dirk B. wrote:

SPOILER ALERT: Just so I can stop dancing around this topic, Connor's soul is that of Adam, and his companion is the glorified form of Eve.

I'd love to place Eve into Connor's inner circle, there to watch over him and to simultaneously work against the Unholy Trinity while pretending to be part of the conspiracy all along. That would give her a great role. She could wear a Mission Impossible-style mask that looks like Dr. Lombardi for the decade+ that she's known De Rosa and been part of his conspiracy; she'd also have to disguise her voice, but she's had a few thousand years to practice that. The reason Satan doesn't recognize he's dealing with a glorified individual in a mask is because Eve/Lombardi is able to hide the glorified element of herself using limited powers Eve received when she was glorified. Sort of like Emperor Palpatine was able to stand before Jedi and hide his true nature.

Since Satan told Romano at the end of book one that God's minions were forbidden from interfering as part of the rules agreed to between God and Satan, I'll need to figure an exception for her that doesn't break the rules.

My goodness! That's very interesting. I'll have to think about that. Can the exception for Lombardi/Eve be that she's a woman? Perhaps the original contract was for men and angels who are male.

1,064 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-14 00:49:31)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

It's an interesting idea. But excluding women from the definition of minions seems a little too obvious a mistake for one of the greatest (former) angels to make. A better way to do it may be to give Eve instructions that she is to do everything Satan asks (i.e., "not interfere", as Satan demanded). So, she can be there as long as she does what he tells her. She wouldn't agree to kill someone, but God already knows that about Eve, without even looking forward in time. So, He's free to tell her, do exactly what you're told.

1,065 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-14 20:17:02)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Better yet, remove Satan's comment to Romano at the end of book one that God's minions were forbidden from interfering. However, then I'd have to find a reason why Phanuel, the Archangel of Judgement, doesn't blow Connor's cover. Maybe Phanuel simply chose on his own not to interfere, knowing that God and Satan were in the middle of a final challenge. Moses and Elijah are both supernatural humans (they "could" be the Two Witnesses from Revelation), and they suspect something is up with Connor, but they're not entirely sure what until the end of book one. Eve is supernatural as well since the only way she could return to Earth is as a glorified human. Since I need them all to interfere to some extent, I can't allow Satan to prevent interference by humans. Maybe God insists "only angels" won't interfere, or he sneaks that detail past Satan by volunteering that angels will not interfere until Judgement Day.

One minor issue is that Revelation's Two Witnesses in Catholicism represent the Church's witness to the world of Christ's divinity. There are no supernatural beings involved, except in some Protestant denominations. I added them to the book to poke a little fun at the Left Behind series, which tries to interpret everything in Revelation literally, except when it's impossible to do so (e.g., the dragon sweeping stars from the heavens). So, Moses and Elijah are just a couple of human kooks who have special powers, not the real Moses and Elijah returned to Earth. I may use them to represent a common Protestant interpretation of Revelation throughout the books, although I'll have to hint more clearly that that's what they are. I'm thinking at some point in book one I should have them appear, sitting on a bench and reading either a Left Behind book or a Protestant Bible, or one of each.

1,066

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Q: Why the mask? To fool Satan? Isn't it thousands of years since they last met? I have trouble remembering people from three hours ago

1,067 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-14 23:34:19)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

I assume they saw each other more than once. Or that at least he was keeping his eye on her and hubby. After all, these were the first humans. Everyone would have been curious, and Satan would have been jealous of their special relationship with God.

Also, she still looks exactly as she did back then. I'm assuming her glorified body looked as she did when she was created. Otherwise, you would have a lot of glorified geriatrics in wheelchairs.

1,068

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Also, she still looks exactly as she did back then.

Fun side story... I was at a funeral last year for a parent. The daughter I'd dated a bit 30 years ago but fell out of contact since we didn't exactly have facebook in those golden days.

Okay, so fast-forward. I reach the plot and there's all these people milling around. I quickly locate her in the crowd, except something's off. My mental software says this is her, but my logical brain says she couldn't still look the same.

She's obviously curious why I'm just standing there staring, so I venture "Are you (X)?"
She replies, "No, that's my mom."

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Kdot wrote:

Also, she still looks exactly as she did back then.

Fun side story... I was at a funeral last year for a parent. The daughter I'd dated a bit 30 years ago but fell out of contact since we didn't exactly have facebook in those golden days.

Okay, so fast-forward. I reach the plot and there's all these people milling around. I quickly locate her in the crowd, except something's off. My mental software says this is her, but my logical brain says she couldn't still look the same.

She's obviously curious why I'm just standing there staring, so I venture "Are you (X)?"
She replies, "No, that's my mom."

Cute, I like it.

1,070

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Kdot wrote:

She's obviously curious why I'm just standing there staring, so I venture "Are you (X)?"
She replies, "No, that's my mom."

Yup, saw that coming. :-)

1,071

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Dirk B. wrote:

I happened to notice that this thread has been viewed over 145,000 times. I was a bit freaked by the number until I looked at the whole forum. My old Galaxy Tales thread has been viewed 280K times. Sorcerer's Progress, 360K. And Amy still holds the record at 465K for her Acts+ thread! Yay, Amy.

Yeh, ran some stats on it, and Amy thread, in the past five days, has picked up around a hundred views a day.
E. Free's thread served as my basis, pulling an average of 75 hits per night.

So probably just bot traffic looking for something titillating or AIs learning how to emulate us.
I'm pretty certain an AI considers a forum a treasure trove of non-copyrighted learning.

1,072

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Should be interesting to learn, once published, what inappropriate remarks/jokes I might have made over the years under my member id. Yikes.

1,073 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-21 02:44:07)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Early in book 3, Connor and Adam, both of whom share a soul and are finally cognisant of each other, take turns being in control of what is essentially Connor's body. Depends on who's needed most at any given moment; the other yields control and withdraws into the background, though still fully aware of what is happening. They'll even have the ability to talk to each other using thoughts.

I'd like some way for the other characters to be able to visually distinguish who's in control at any given moment.

Although I previously used eye color changes as Connor's went from green to sparkling blue to bright blue, here I can leave Connor's eyes bright-blue and alive with energy when he's in control. Adam, as the oldest of all human souls, will probably have a tired eye color (e.g., faded blue).

I also hope to differentiate them in terms of how they act, speak, etc.

Other possible differences:
- bearing, strong and confident (Connor)
- haunted eyes for Adam, not so for Connor - this one for sure
- subtle differences in appearance as they switch from one to the other (e.g., minor wrinkles around the mouth and eyes when Adam is in control)
- Adam has millennia of experiences and age-old wisdom; Connor has, above all, courage; he's also very intelligent and a natural leader; their personalities will reflect that

Please let me know if you can think of any others.

Thanks
Dirk

1,074

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Connor and Adam, both of whom share a soul and are finally cognisant of each other, take turns being in control

I'm worried you might be (plotting) yourself into a future dead-end.

Can you quantify "share a soul"?

I mean, if someone clocks me over the head and I spend 20 years thinking I'm a new  person with my own history etc then an (undefined incident) reminds me of both my original life and the new one, is that a "shared soul"?

If I learned I shared a soul with a cat from biblical times, and my friends built a machine to turn me back into the original soul, can I logically say "No, I don't want to be a cat"
a) If I can deny my previous state, do I now count as a new soul?
b) If my "cat-ness" jumps out and says, "nah man, be a cat again", did anything in my pseudo-life have meaning (aside from a 18-year-long feline dream)?

1,075 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-21 15:31:17)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Think of it as Siamese souls. Inseparable, but two personalities, two individual experiences, and a shared brain from Connor's body. Although Connor and Adam will be able to communicate and cooperate, I decided I prefer them to remain two beings sharing one soul. Initially, Connor's body is born with Adam's soul, except Adam is asleep. Baby Connor sets up shop in the same soul, and he doesn't know about Adam. Connor lives his life "normally" (heh) aside from being the son of Satan and, therefore, the Antichrist.

At the end of book one, Connor is unable to kill the pope for reasons he can't understand. That was Adam's first influence on this "dream" he's having, meaning Connor's life. During book 2, Connor will become increasingly erratic (details TBD) as Adam slowly awakens and tries to reassert control over his own soul. Connor doesn't know what's going on, although he's struggling internally not to lose control of himself because of whatever is happening. I may do something similar with Adam (i.e., he's coming out of his slumber and is trying to shake off the dream and reassert control over his conscious self, but he can't do it because Connor is fighting him).

Most likely, Adam will fully awaken before Connor learns what's happening from the Holy Spirit. I decided tonight, there should be a chapter where Connor and Adam "meet" and get to know each other, at least to some extent, and figure out how to coexist, at least until external matters are settled, at which point Adam and Connor expect to  have some sort of duel to decide who lives and who dies. I'll use that chapter to explain what's been happening to the reader. I'll probably go further and have much of what's happening surprise Adam as well. I might make Connor's whole existence within Adam's soul part of that surprise. Perhaps Adam believed he would be fully conscious of who he is right from rebirth. So Connor could be a huge surprise (not to God, but to Adam). There's other stuff I'm still working out, but Connor's courage is critical to the success of the mission, so Connor had to come into existence. How Connor came to co-exist in Adam's soul is TBD. I'd prefer a different explanation than simply saying God did it; obviously God knew it would happen, but I'd like a different root cause.

Before all of this begins (before Connor is born) Adam is unwell, psychologically, blaming himself for what happened in the past and asks God to end Adam's existence. I'll probably make it so that the rescue mission was God's idea. God knows Adam's soul is sick and needs to be healed, and the rescue mission is meant to accomplish that by allowing Adam to fix what he screwed up.

Now you see why there had to be a whole different timeline for this story. Obviously, book one tried to follow Catholicism as much as possible, although it looked for quite a while that Christ had returned as a boy. Catholics have far more flexibility than some Protestants denominations when it comes to interpreting Revelation. Most notably, events in Revelation are not meant to happen sequentially, and some events never happen at all but are symbolic of other things (e.g., the Two Witnesses from Revelation simply represent the Church's witness to the life, death, and resurrection of Christ; traditionally, two witnesses were needed in the Old Testament for testimony to be considered reliable).

Book two will be mostly consistent with Catholicism until it's revealed near the end that there are two "beings" struggling for control of the same body and soul. At that point devout Catholics will think the whole story has gone off the rails and the book reviews will tank. At that point Catholics will begin to look more favorably on Dan Brown. :-) I do intend to make it clear in the introduction of all three books that the story is inspired by Revelation but will not necessarily follow Revelation to the same conclusion. It definitely won't.

Book three will involve many of the natural disasters from Revelation (they may actually start in book two), followed by a confrontation between Satan and Connor, not a confrontation with Christ, the latter being considered non-Catholic. You can probably guess what happens to Satan, although there'll probably be another 25% of the story to go after that, which focuses on the rescue mission, involving a huge sacrifice, the mission's outcome, and its aftermath.

And just to make it interesting, I'll say that only one of Connor or Adam will remain for the rest of eternity. :-)

George's head is probably spinning right about now.

Did I answer your question, Kdot? lol