Topic: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Here's a good article about which path is right for you—Indie or Traditional publishing. https://insights.bookbub.com/indie-vs-t … dium=email

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Good, concise article.  Thanks.

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

I have all the indicators for Indie publishing--and have done so twice.

Bill

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

How was your ROI when you published yourself, Bill? There are two major reasons why I'd be reluctant to go down the indie publishing route;
1. You have to invest in editors, cover artists & marketing experts but if your book doesn't do well, it could all be money down the drain. With a publisher, they'd take the hit if the book is a flop.
2. You have to invest a lot of time in learning and researching about different vendors & figuring out how to market it.
Are these valid concerns or am I wrong somewhere/overthinking things?

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Suin wrote:

How was your ROI when you published yourself, Bill? There are two major reasons why I'd be reluctant to go down the indie publishing route;
1. You have to invest in editors, cover artists & marketing experts but if your book doesn't do well, it could all be money down the drain. With a publisher, they'd take the hit if the book is a flop.
2. You have to invest a lot of time in learning and researching about different vendors & figuring out how to market it.
Are these valid concerns or am I wrong somewhere/overthinking things?

I agree with most of what you said, Suin, except for the marketing part. Even with a publisher, unless you're a big name that warrants the publisher taking out ads in the NYT, for example, marketing is pretty much up to you. On the plus side of self-publishing, you have total control of the product and reap all the profits!

6 (edited by Temple Wang 2019-02-12 15:27:04)

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Suin wrote:

How was your ROI when you published yourself, Bill? There are two major reasons why I'd be reluctant to go down the indie publishing route;
1. You have to invest in editors, cover artists & marketing experts but if your book doesn't do well, it could all be money down the drain. With a publisher, they'd take the hit if the book is a flop.
2. You have to invest a lot of time in learning and researching about different vendors & figuring out how to market it.
Are these valid concerns or am I wrong somewhere/overthinking things?

Though it’s changing, I think it’s still safe to say that today “most” writers that self-publish do so because 1) they can’t get an agent to represent them, 2) they can’t get a publisher to accept their work, or 3) don’t bother trying to get published traditionally because they don’t have the confidence they will be successful at either 1 or 2. 

So, whereas anyone can make the choice today to self-publish, to “get published” traditionally is not really a “choice” for the preponderance of writers as much as it is an aspiration.

Note: For anyone inclined to give me the one-in-a-hundred-thousand success story, please spare me/us; I/we get it.  I concede the point that some people truly do have this choice.  I am referring to “most” not “all.”

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Temple Wang wrote:

Note: For anyone inclined to give me the one-in-a-hundred-thousand success story, please spare me/us.”

I read that agents typically accept 1 in a thousand manuscripts, and publishers accept even less... so you're not far off!

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Suin wrote:

How was your ROI when you published yourself, Bill? There are two major reasons why I'd be reluctant to go down the indie publishing route;
1. You have to invest in editors, cover artists & marketing experts but if your book doesn't do well, it could all be money down the drain. With a publisher, they'd take the hit if the book is a flop.
2. You have to invest a lot of time in learning and researching about different vendors & figuring out how to market it.
Are these valid concerns or am I wrong somewhere/overthinking things?

I'm not in it for the money. I know that sounds strange, but I published myself as an accomplishment. At my age (76), this works for me. As for ROI, I have a little royalties coming back to me, but not enough to get heady over. I make the rounds of libraries in the area, set up tables and sell a few books. This satisfies my ego enough.

As for editors, I use a couple of good pieces of software (primarily Pro Writing Aid) and they tend to point out mistakes and/or offer suggestions well enough for me. My daughter works for EA Games as an illustrator and software creator so she has a hand in making my covers. I think she did extremely well on my first book. I did the second book cover myself.

I went the self-publishing direction when I hit 50 rejections. It may take me a while, but I know when not to swim against the tide.

Bill

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

It's really interesting to have this insight - people generally only share their 'i got a publisher' stories, so thanks for being so candid!! 50 rejections sounds like a good, round number to aim for before going to self-publishing. I'm going to put that as my target too! smile
Did you go premium with Pro Writing Aid?
I remember your cover for You Only Love Twice - it was beautiful!

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

jack the knife wrote:

I agree with most of what you said, Suin, except for the marketing part. Even with a publisher, unless you're a big name that warrants the publisher taking out ads in the NYT, for example, marketing is pretty much up to you. On the plus side of self-publishing, you have total control of the product and reap all the profits!

Would the publisher, at least, give you support on how to market? Like a checklist of best practices, feedback on how to improve, etc?

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Suin wrote:
jack the knife wrote:

I agree with most of what you said, Suin, except for the marketing part. Even with a publisher, unless you're a big name that warrants the publisher taking out ads in the NYT, for example, marketing is pretty much up to you. On the plus side of self-publishing, you have total control of the product and reap all the profits!

Would the publisher, at least, give you support on how to market? Like a checklist of best practices, feedback on how to improve, etc?

Yes, they will, and they'll arrange with Amazon when you want to do a promotion sale, including a free offer. They will also support you and your book on Twitter, as well as on their website. They want you to succeed! But the marketing heavy lifting will be yours.

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Just to share - I hit 60ish rejections if you count the non-responses. The usual responses were "This is good, but not for me at this time." Which is a bit of a played out line. I chose self-publishing because I'd been through the rounds with agents that would actually look at my book. Not easily fitting into genres limited my options (and potential sales) so I swallowed a bitter pill and shelled out for some professional editing because I didn't want to release a piece of crap. I thoroughly enjoyed working with my editor and I think she made my book into something I can be proud of.

When I paid my editor I knew I likely would not break-even on royalties. I suppose I went in with eyes wide open. I plan to do the same for my second book and use the same editor. For me, personally, I like having total control of my book. But it is a lot of work. Website and Cover alone were a few months of learning and doing and I still think both could be much better than they are.

As a side note - I plan to go to a few cons in the coming years to sell. This won't work for every book-type of course and the tables can be expensive so I'll be splitting costs with a woodworker.

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Suin wrote:
jack the knife wrote:

I agree with most of what you said, Suin, except for the marketing part. Even with a publisher, unless you're a big name that warrants the publisher taking out ads in the NYT, for example, marketing is pretty much up to you. On the plus side of self-publishing, you have total control of the product and reap all the profits!

Would the publisher, at least, give you support on how to market? Like a checklist of best practices, feedback on how to improve, etc?

This is a comment from one of the people commenting on the article above. I think it a good summary of what it means:

"Patricia Robertson
Nice summary. One comment on pubicity team provided by traditional publishing. You were fortunate. I don't believe that is the norm. I had three books traditionally published but never a publicity team. For the most part you are on your own as far as marketing your book whether traditionally published or independently published and now days publishers expect you to have a platform and marketing plan. To me, this is an added reason to publish independently. You also can travel to promote your book as an independently published author. It's just up to you to make arrangements."

Kiss,

Gacela

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

I just read the above article. It's essentially presented as a dichotomy - "indie" vs. "traditional" publishing. But it ignores a third category: independent medium-sized publishers. The article seems to be referring to large publishing houses who have publicity teams, pay for book tours, and pay advances when the contract is signed. The third category, with which I and a number of authors on TNBW are affiliated, do not offer those perks. They do the editing and cover art and support in ways I mentioned above. And they don't require an intermediary  agent before even looking at your book. In fact, some forbid the use of agents. Just wanted to make clear that a third choice is available for those who don't want to do ALL the work by themselves and are willing to give up being in total control to have it.

15 (edited by B Douglas Slack 2019-02-12 21:12:54)

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Suin wrote:

It's really interesting to have this insight - people generally only share their 'i got a publisher' stories, so thanks for being so candid!! 50 rejections sounds like a good, round number to aim for before going to self-publishing. I'm going to put that as my target too! smile
Did you go premium with Pro Writing Aid?
I remember your cover for You Only Love Twice - it was beautiful!

The 50 rejections were counted only if I heard back from them -OR- didn't hear within 90 days.

I use ProWritingAid so extensively I opted for lifetime Premium. They had a New Years sale going and it was half-price, so I bought it. I'm also on their Beta team and have quite a rapport with the head of the development team. Wondful bunch of people. They've come out with a couple new versions that incorporated some bug fixes I suggested. The majority of "bugs" (which really aren't) is the distinction they try to make between American English and British English. SOmetimes PWA will flag it as Bristish, but it isn't, and vice-versa.

Thank you for the cover comment. My daughter was really proud of it. I think of it as being nearly the entire novel rolled into the cover. The subdued colors went well with the somewhat misty overlay.

Bill

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

jack the knife wrote:

I just read the above article. It's essentially presented as a dichotomy - "indie" vs. "traditional" publishing. But it ignores a third category: independent medium-sized publishers. The article seems to be referring to large publishing houses who have publicity teams, pay for book tours, and pay advances when the contract is signed. The third category, with which I and a number of authors on TNBW are affiliated, do not offer those perks. They do the editing and cover art and support in ways I mentioned above. And they don't require an intermediary  agent before even looking at your book. In fact, some forbid the use of agents. Just wanted to make clear that a third choice is available for those who don't want to do ALL the work by themselves and are willing to give up being in total control to have it.

"Independent medium-sized publishers". This is a very interesting approach. Like, which ones? Is it possible for we, little, unkown authors to access a database where, at least some them, are listed so we may contact them?

Kiss,

Gacela

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Mariana Reuter wrote:
jack the knife wrote:

I just read the above article. It's essentially presented as a dichotomy - "indie" vs. "traditional" publishing. But it ignores a third category: independent medium-sized publishers. The article seems to be referring to large publishing houses who have publicity teams, pay for book tours, and pay advances when the contract is signed. The third category, with which I and a number of authors on TNBW are affiliated, do not offer those perks. They do the editing and cover art and support in ways I mentioned above. And they don't require an intermediary  agent before even looking at your book. In fact, some forbid the use of agents. Just wanted to make clear that a third choice is available for those who don't want to do ALL the work by themselves and are willing to give up being in total control to have it.

"Independent medium-sized publishers". This is a very interesting approach. Like, which ones? Is it possible for we, little, unkown authors to access a database where, at least some them, are listed so we may contact them?

Kiss,

Gacela

A site which might help is:  https://www.authorspublish.com/

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

I'd be interested to know if anyone has tried 'hybrid' (or vanity) publishing where you pay for their expertise in publishing including editing, printing, Amazon & marketing...

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

I know someone who has hired a professional local publicist to help with marketing (after working with a paid editor and self-publishing). Apparently, she broke even pretty quickly after that. Not sure what happened then, and if she went on to sell more. I doubt this approach would make sense for something like genre fiction though, it was a book based on an established lifestyle/travel blog.

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Suin wrote:

I'd be interested to know if anyone has tried 'hybrid' (or vanity) publishing where you pay for their expertise in publishing including editing, printing, Amazon & marketing...

That's what "self-publishing" used to be. You paid somebody like CreateSpace to do the work that "traditional" publishers do. I published my first book that way.

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Suin wrote:

I'd be interested to know if anyone has tried 'hybrid' (or vanity) publishing where you pay for their expertise in publishing including editing, printing, Amazon & marketing...

I was offered one of these "deals" early on and had a fellow writer get offered one. To me, they seem like complete and total scams. You pay and absorb all the risk. There seems to be no benefit to this at all. If your book flops when you publish it yourself you're in the hole whatever you put into it. If your book flops with a vanity publisher you're still in the hole but probably put in an extra 1-2k just for the vanity pub's name and you still get a tiny slice of the royalties with no advance.

Any publisher that asks you for money to publish is taking advantage of you. If they include "editing services" you're probably still paying more than you would if you used a freelancer, bookbaby, or some other on-demand editor. You also lose control of your book and you lose similar chunks to your royalties that you would through a traditional or small publisher without any of the benefits. I think my offer was 25% royalty with 3k paid by me. My friend was asked to pay 4k. They'll pepper the letters with love for your book and its marketing potential but the truth is in the price tag.

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Thanks for sharing that, Ann.

Re: Indie vs. Traditional Publishing

Why did Ann remove her post? It was most interesting!

Kiss,

Gacela