Re: What's With Some of the New Members
Oh, and learning the terminology of English Grammar gives you words to express your thoughts on the subject.
TheNextBigWriter Premium → What's With Some of the New Members
Oh, and learning the terminology of English Grammar gives you words to express your thoughts on the subject.
Oh, and learning the terminology of English Grammar gives you words to express your thoughts on the subject.
"I like the way it reads." :-)
Well, William, you've been a member a year longer than I. I don't know if you ever read any of my novels posted here, but I don't remember receiving a review from you. We're talking 10 years, though, so perhaps I'm wrong, and you may be right about us not knowing how much you have staked us out. My question to you - who admits being a reader, not a writer - why do you pony up the yearly fee just to read WIPs, some of which will never be completed? Your post puzzled me, so I felt compelled to respond. Besides you, there have been a few, I guess, though I can only remember one - Porgy - who only read and reviewed and didn't post. So why do you do it, William? This inquiring mind wants to know.
Most writers here are convinced their product is immaculate and woe betide any 'reader' who offers up an honest opinion, should it conflict with said author’s fragile inflated ego.
This’ll stir ‘em up (especially the passive-aggressives—they’re cute when they get a bee in their bonnet. LOL). I applaud your frankness, my friend.
William, knowing the people I routinely review and who review me, I believe that all of us would appreciate knowing your opinions of our work. I know I would be, although I'm currently between projects. I had a "reader" once tell me to start my book over and he gave me his reasons. Everyone else who reviewed me gave me a few minor suggestions and encouragement, but it was that one honest review that convinced me to start over. I'm glad I did. New members may need a little encouragement along with constructive feedback, but the rest of us have been at this a long time and look forward to critical reviews.
The first time you get an honest review it can knock you back on your heels. If you are an intelligent new writer, you will sit back and consider again why you are getting so upset about something. You will find that it is the things that upset you have the most value in terms of making you think hard about your writing.
That has been my experience anyway and I consider myself hard-boiled, thick-skinned and no snowflake. I hated inline when I started here (not that long ago) almost retreated entirely, then actually considered what had been said, took a deep breath and stayed. I'm sure my writing has improved because of it.
Readers note to Authors
If a reader does not 'get' some aspect of the writing, and admits it. It doesn’t automatically mean that it is the readers fault for being stupid.
The reader is only stupid for mentioning it.
The reader is not the enemy.
The reader isn't stupid for mentioning it! I feel if a reader can't 'get' some aspect of the writing, I need to look at how I've expressed what I want to say. If it is just one reader, I might not do anything about it, but if several make the same point, no matter how precious that bit of writing is, I need to adjust it so that the readers CAN 'get' my meaning. Not to do so makes me, the writer, the stupid one.
jack the knife wrote:. My question to you - who admits being a reader, not a writer - why do you pony up the yearly fee just to read WIPs, some of which will never be completed? Your post puzzled me, so I felt compelled to respond. Besides you, there have been a few, I guess, though I can only remember one - Porgy - who only read and reviewed and didn't post. So why do you do it, William? This inquiring mind wants to know.
To more concisely answer the direct questions you pose.
Why does an audience watch a band perform? Is the drummer baffled, wondering why the audience are not all at home in their garages playing the drums themselves?
Is the author whose novel I purchased in the bookstore on Saturday wondering why the hell do all these thousands of readers buy my book rather than write one themselves?
I am an avid reader. I’ve read everything classic, contemporary and commercial on every ‘top ten’ ‘top fifty’ and ‘top one hundred’ books you should read list, which I’ve ever read.
I don’t think that a writer should be surprised to discover that readers exist and are out there eager to consume good writing.
I think that several writers here on tNBW need to learn how to write for a reader rather than for another writer.
My bad, William. I assumed - wrongly - that you were a paying member.
I think the site has evolved from a showcase of sparkling fresh talent into a mundane grumble pit for struggling writers.
“...mundane grumble pit for struggling writers.”
You buried the lede. Priceless, Mr. Short. You’re my hero.
William Short wrote:I think the site has evolved from a showcase of sparkling fresh talent into a mundane grumble pit for struggling writers.
“...mundane grumble pit for struggling writers.”
You buried the lede. Priceless, Mr. Short. You’re my hero.
oh thanks, both of you. As one of the struggling writers, you reckon this place is of no value to us anymore?
My bad, William. I assumed - wrongly - that you were a paying member.
Yet the group info page states that posting to this forum is only open to premium members?
jack the knife wrote:My bad, William. I assumed - wrongly - that you were a paying member.
Yet the group info page states that posting to this forum is only open to premium members?
You don’t have to be a paying member to be a Premium member...
Bevin Wallace wrote:William Short wrote:I think the site has evolved from a showcase of sparkling fresh talent into a mundane grumble pit for struggling writers.
“...mundane grumble pit for struggling writers.”
You buried the lede. Priceless, Mr. Short. You’re my hero.
oh thanks, both of you. As one of the struggling writers, you reckon this place is of no value to us anymore?
I can only speak for myself, but in my experience, all of us writers are struggling. That goes with the territory. “Mundane grumbling pit” as I understood it, refers to some of the discourse on this forum. As to your question - you seem like an intelligent adult. You should decide that for yourself.
Readers note to Authors
If a reader does not 'get' some aspect of the writing, and admits it. It doesn’t automatically mean that it is the readers fault for being stupid.
The reader is only stupid for mentioning it.
The reader is not the enemy.
I remember Mr. Short vividly—despite not having been active here—for several years. Great to see him here again and to be reminded of all the fine writers he read; and to get first hand again, his wit and wisdom.
Memphis Trace
Again, only my personal opinion and I ‘m sure I’ll get burned for expressing it; but I think the site has evolved from a showcase of sparkling fresh talent into a mundane grumble pit for struggling writers.
Ah, doesn't the past always look better than the present? Isn't the grass always greener on the other side, etc. etc.
In my opinion, there is more talent on this site now than I have ever seen in the six or seven years I've been on it. It was always a "grumbling pit" and that's one of the ingredients that sustained it.
You don’t have to be a paying member to be a Premium member...
I think the non-paying membership is called ‘Basic Membership' nowadays. On the old site a 'reviewer' level member could read and review everything. On the new site we can only join a single group. I have access to the Premium group. I’m not sure if that is a legacy thing or normal for ‘basic membership’.
On the front page I am offered “New Writing to Review from Your Groups” and I assume this is only content from the Premium Group. I can read and review competition entries.The content within the specific groups is listed and available to read and review, but I have to go look for it(not in-line review, but those reviews are for editors, no readers so it makes sense). I can’t join the groups, but I guess that only need apply to writers who want to submit work to those groups?
Ah, I expect you are right about a legacy membership. I know after my initial week's premium membership ended, I had to pay a subscription to be able to post anything here in the forum, enter the competitions, post any content, etc.
I am not sure I agree with you about readers and inline reviews. Sometimes it might be useful for you to highlight a specific bit of writing that doesn't make sense to you. Maybe you can't work out who's talking, maybe you are not sure where you are, or anything else that is concerned with the readibility of the piece, rather than the nitty gritty of line editing. For me, that developmental editing is as useful from a reader as it is from a fellow writer. I am so sorry you have been burned and I won't get the pleasure of seeing what you think of my writing.
Bevin Wallace wrote:Lynne Clark wrote:Yet the group info page states that posting to this forum is only open to premium members?
You don’t have to be a paying member to be a Premium member...
I think the non-paying membership is called ‘Basic Membership' nowadays.
If you aren’t a paying member, you can still “reply” to a post in Premium, but you can’t “create” a topic.
William Short wrote:Bevin Wallace wrote:You don’t have to be a paying member to be a Premium member...
I think the non-paying membership is called ‘Basic Membership' nowadays.
If you aren’t a paying member, you can still “reply” to a post in Premium, but you can’t “create” a topic.
Ah, I got it, now. Thanks.
For me, not paying meant I couldn't post any writing so I had to pay up or the site was of limited value to me.
Memphis Trace wrote:I remember Mr. Short vividly—despite not having been active here—for several years. Great to see him here again and to be reminded of all the fine writers he read; and to get first hand again, his wit and wisdom.
Memphis Trace
I missed so many excellent writers from that roll call...
Indeed. I've been to Blue Ruby and back a few times. I also vividly remember 'Good at Dying' although it has been many years now since I read it. Some of the gems I mentioned.
Resonance! The rarely mentioned writing quality that counts the most. You read hundreds of novels, articles, poems and stories... some passages stick indelibly.
A free to read member, but some of the writing here, I would have gladly paid the bookstore hardcover price to read.
I very much appreciated your encouragement and counsel after looking at my Blue Ruby "gems".
I published Good at Dying back in March of 2017.
I also conflated 5 short stories into a novella, Buck Fields—At home... and abroad
I wish I could send you copies.
Memphis
As another newbie out here, I must say thank you to those that have taken time to review my work. Your feedback, and tips, have helped my writing beyond measure. The best side benefit, at least for me, is the ability to read works-in-progress. Thanks again.
Don
The Basic and Premium Memberships were originally intended to replace the Reviewing and Writing Memberships, respectively. However, I can't tell what the Basic membership is all bout these days.
Last I heard about a year ago (I admit I gave up reading all the hoop-la), the Basic membership would be phased out slowly. Was I wrong in my assumption?
The Basic group's description reads, 'This group is for members who just wish to post their writing and aren't interested in trading feedback with other writers.' Does that mean Basic members are still posting their work on the site? It sounds like they've been told they are neither required nor expected to thank reviewers for their efforts, much less give reciprocal reviews. If I were a new member, that's what I would think.
No wonder we're not hearing from them! Intentionally or not, they've been given a free pass, and paid no fee. And don't expect them to comb through the forum threads for our opinions! I was a member for several months before I started reading the forum posts.
Very clever--I thought the Basic group was for reviewers only. I do still see stories that don't give credit for reviewing, but I thought that was because they had been posted in non-point groups. Silly me--there I go assuming!
There's something Basically insulting to Premium members here, don't you think?
Now about the reviewers who just like to read and wish only to review. I'm not against having the opportunity to hear from them. Who knows--one of them could bring me a million-dollar, prize-winning idea!
The only thing I'd like to suggest is that a reviewer's membership be called a Reviewer's Membership. No equivocation, no miscommunication and no misapplication. Sounds fool-proof, doesn't it?
And a reviewing member who does nothing but review is not inactive. He/she is doing just what he/ she's supposed to do! JP
So, let me get this straight. People are so concerned about the discussion of politics/religion in the forums that they're basically banned from the Premium Group because folks want to discuss only writing subjects. No political discussion here for several days now. And here we have a "writing/reading" thread generating more contention than most political ones and it's turning people away from the site.
There is something wrong with this picture. Perhaps it should be placed in the flash fiction contest. I've made my point before, but I'll reiterate here that "readers" are more important in reviewing our work than "writers" for the same purpose. I'll just close by saying that you can regulate the subject matter within these threads, but you can't regulate the difference of opinions which some seem to think is an albatross around our necks when in fact it is our strength. Take care. Vern
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