1 (edited by Sherry V. Ostroff 2017-09-02 19:26:37)

Topic: Moving a Story Forward

I am a member of another online writing group. I was involved in a discussion about what makes you like  a book and want to read more.  Or in another words, what does the writer do to more a story forward?

This is something I have been thinking a lot lately when analyzing my own writing and when critiquing yours.  I don't mean an earth-shattering event like an alien about to gobble up the earth. Which, by the way, always leaves me disappointed because what do you do for an encore?  I mean the little things to get a reader to move from one paragraph to the next and to turn a page.  Is it a certain word you add that creates questions (or bubbles of tension)  that the reader wants answered?

So, what do you do with your writing?

Sherry

2 (edited by Karen van Kriedt 2017-09-02 20:30:43)

Re: Moving a Story Forward

You posed your question from the perspective of the reader, but I feel that what interests the writer will interest (at least some) readers. One of the best pieces of advice I've received on writing: If it bores you (the writer) it's going to bore the reader. So that means, if it makes your toes curl, it's got juice. Others (not necessarily everyone) will feel it too.
There are certainly techniques, like building in cliff-hanger endings to each chapter. And I'm into learning all the techniques. I consider them tools in the toolbox, but what matters to me more is: how do I feel about my characters and story/plot?
A lot of what I write is based on personal experience. The first thing I need to do is move the characters away from people I know into people I wish I knew, and move the story line away from what actually happened to me to what might have happened in a different scenario that reveals something important to me. Personally, I don't want to write a memoir, I want to create something new, something I love, something mine. Right now I'm studying how to write so that I can be worthy of writing the stories and characters I've created.

The following is quoted from the Intro to David Corbett's The Art of Character. Coincidentally, I just now typed it out for myself so I could tack it on the wall in front of my work space. I find it inspirational and exciting.

Every story worth telling in some way mirrors our lives, and to that extent explores four key questions:
Who am I?
Where do I come from?
Where am I going?
What does it mean?
Storytelling is an art. It can’t provide scientific certainty and it shouldn’t try. Though there is considerable craft to fiction, it remains rooted far more in searching than in finding, more wedded to the hypothetical ‘what if’ than any conclusive QED.
As long as we’re alive, the question of who we are and how we should live remains open. No one convinces us less than the person who crows, “I have the answer.” And, ironically, this is precisely why fiction provides a more satisfying depiction of human life than any scientific or otherwise theoretical rendering can offer.
This open-ended quality to life also explains why desire is so central to the exploration of character. Human want can inspire the indifferent, betray the foolish, and undo the steadfast. And nothing is more ephemeral (or self-deluded) than satisfaction. … Even a child can intimate an unsettling sense of continuation to the journey in even the most final of endings, the inescapable presence of an implicit “And then …” Or the more ominous “And yet …”
The importance of character to story lies in this open-endedness at the core of our lives. Stories that emphasize ideas or problems … invariably hit rough sailing the further they drift from the shore of character. Ideas too often serve as a digression from the messy stuff of life – ourselves, each other. For some they provide a kind of false salvation. But the core reality of life remains: We die. Ideas, no matter how “eternal,” can’t save us. And because we can only honestly stand on one side of death, we can never know for certain how our lives will turn out, which is why we experience our existence most profoundly in the interrogative mode, situated in a world premised on … the magical “What if?”

Re: Moving a Story Forward

Sherry V. Ostroff wrote:

what does the writer do to more a story forward?

Sherry

Wouldn’t you know it—I can’t find the source when I need it! I used to have all these notes which I printed out as posters and hung on the walls all over my office/ guest room. I finally took them down when I couldn’t open the closet doors anymore without a paper fight. By then, I had internalized them (mostly), so it didn’t make much difference. But here’s the gist:
Every chapter needs to tell a small story of its own. In the beginning, set your character a goal (problem to solve, for example). Have him/ her work toward that goal and achieve it by the end of the chapter, by which time another goal has come to light for him/her to work toward in following chapter. Pointing out the next goal is the hook that gets the reader to go on.
By having the character take baby steps toward the final resolution, you advance the story, the reader sees the character making progress, and things flow naturally.
It works for me, when I remember to follow the plan. I wish I could remember who wrote that sound advice!
Hope this helps.  JP

4 (edited by dagnee 2017-09-17 00:39:21)

Re: Moving a Story Forward

I have found that if you have a solid beginning, middle and end before you start writing, you'll be able to move the story forward a lot easier. It's when you start out with one of those three missing you get in trouble.
smile

Re: Moving a Story Forward

Somebody
Wanted
But
So
Then

Your character must want something. How do they get it?  What stands in their way? What do they do about it? What was the result?

Find something your character can't do, won't do, make them face it, make them do it. Not all at once, but step by step and carry your reader alone for the ride.

Sherry

6 (edited by Rachel (Rhiannon) Parsons 2017-09-03 08:02:59)

Re: Moving a Story Forward

My stories are character-driven.  Most of my readers want to know what is happening with the characters--whether she will have to go to bed with the yucky prime minister to form an alliance, what will happen when she proposes to one woman, and her two ex-lovers show up the same day. They like the wit and humor and interaction of the characters, are sad when it looks like, even twenty years later, they are still stuck in a dilemma.  Some say all the plots have been written, although I suspect it's the people who say that who lack originality, not the writers. I sometimes write because I'm interested myself in some questions--what did people do before flush toilets?  Well, I asked that questions before I found out that there is a sub-specialty in archaeology now that is finally getting around to investigating it.  (You could have knocked me over with a feather when I found out the flush toilet wasn't invented by John Crapper (hence the development of a certain verb), but the ancient Romans.)  So I have a scene where the characters go to a public toilet.  What would a deep space flight be like?  Not fun is the answer.  The best advice, though, is still from Hemingway, who said the best way to write a story (and that would include moving the story on) is to begin at the beginning, go through the middle, and when you're at the end--stop.

Re: Moving a Story Forward

Rachel (Rhiannon) Parsons wrote:

The best advice, though, is still from Hemingway, who said the best way to write a story (and that would include moving the story on) is to begin at the beginning, go through the middle, and when you're at the end--stop.

You know what really gets to me? following the author all the way to the end of a book, only to find that there is no end. The conflict is not resolved, the characters have not completed an arc. The reader will have to wade through another book, and then possibly others after that, to find out how it all turns out. Steven King promised a trilogy about that blasted tower, and turned it into what--eight books? I quit reading his books. Anne Rice did the same thing. I'm still mad at her.

There should at least be a sub-plot for each book, so the story has a beginning, middle and END when the last page is turned. I feel cheated when I get to the end and find a cliffhanger.

If I enjoyed the story, I'll keep reading, but I really hate finding an announcement at the end that the sequel will be out NEXT YEAR. Don't do that to your readers!

8 (edited by Sherry V. Ostroff 2017-09-03 16:23:32)

Re: Moving a Story Forward

Rachel,
About 2 1/2 years ago I discovered Outlander. I devoured the first book and the second, a third - 8 books. (Can't wait for #9) When I finished all 8 books, I read them all over again.  If an author does a great job of moving the story forward, (along with great characters, excellent writing, unexpected twists and turns, a genre that I love) I am a willing reader. In only one of those books (7) did I feel the way you described.

I am writing a historical novel now. I had every intention of writing one book book that would be concluded by the last page. But I can see now there is no way I can complete the story. I hope to come to a satisfactory ending for my readers, but because it's history the story continues.

However, the crux of my initial posting is how does an author get a reader to turn 500 pages. Just having a beginning, middle and an end is not enough. How do you get the reader to go from the beginning to the middle and make it to the end.

Sherry

9 (edited by j p lundstrom 2017-09-03 16:56:56)

Re: Moving a Story Forward

In his blog, Chuck Wendig has some funny things, some off-color things and some useful things to say about writing, including how to keep a story moving forward.   http://terribleminds.com/ramble/tag/25things/

Re: Moving a Story Forward

Thanks JP. I'll check it out.

Sherry

Re: Moving a Story Forward

Sherry, I found your posts on TNBW  about moving a story forward. You haves started a great discussion.  I have read all of the replies, and your answers. I feel I've learned a lot.

12 (edited by Sherry V. Ostroff 2017-09-04 23:44:23)

Re: Moving a Story Forward

Moving the story forward is called raising the stakes. Let's say your story is about war, and your character has joined the army because he/she feels it is their patriotic duty. What will your character do to protect the interests ofthes country? How much are they willing to give up? How far will they go? It should not be a once and done event, but little tensions that will grow and keep the reader turning pages.

The same would work in a romance. What will your characters do to be with each other? How hard will they fight to get what they want? Who will they hurt to be with the one they love?

One way to achieve this is by using the rule of the three. This creates a pattern in your story telling. Your character may face three major challenges, each increasing the tension.   

It is by creating these tensions, little ones leading into bigger ones until you get to the biggest of all, is what moves a story forward. To do that, your story should be high stakes.

Sherry

Re: Moving a Story Forward

This is such an interesting thread -great insights all over.  From my perspective I have to like the writing itself as a start.  I can read a book without chapters or even paragraphs if the writing is great.  Even when I read thrillers or something like Bridget Jones' diary, it's the prose itself that gets me first.  It doesn't have to be brilliant or complex, but if it is at all cheesy or sloppy, I will definitely stop after 20 pages, regardless of the plot or characters.  Then again, I read a book by Javier Marias (in translation), who is considered a potential Nobel prize winner, and had to push myself to finish it because regardless of the perfectly polished prose I didn't like the characters and thought the plot was silly and pointless.  So there, I just contradicted myself!  I guess to sum up - we read what we like and try to write what we'd like to read.

Re: Moving a Story Forward

To move a story forward, I generally take one step at a time until I fall on my ass, then pick myself up and start the next step. Basically I create a beginning and an end point and then advance by increments between the two. All the steps don't need to be the same length or even in the same direction as we seldom walk in a straight line at an even pace. As long as there is some movement in the general direction of the final destination, we will get there, hopefully without wandering so far astray as to lose the readers following our footsteps. A flashback might be considered a step backward, but I don't think it really is since it ultimately brings us back around to where we started the flashback or even beyond with some new vigor in our journey to the original goal. "Slowly we turn; Niagara Falls." If you have to ask, you won't get it. Take care. Vern

Re: Moving a Story Forward

Sherry V. Ostroff wrote:

1.  what does the writer do to more a story forward?

2. I mean the little things to get a reader to move from one paragraph to the next and to turn a page. 

So, what do you do with your writing?
Sherry

I think we've been talking about what a writer does to advance a story (1), when the question intended was really something else.

What Sherry wanted to know was what we do to keep a reader turning the pages all the way to the end (2). While these two can overlap, they aren't necessarily the same thing. How do you get your readers so invested in the story they want to keep reading to the last page? Is it a challenging plot? sympathetic characters? something else?

We've discussed the technique--what about the affect?

jp

Re: Moving a Story Forward

JP,

Thanks. You're right. I'm interested in what techniques the writer does to move the story forward, to make the story high-stakes,and to keep the reader interested.

One simple way could be the choice of words. Using words like "pause, froze, waited" create little bits of tension and questions.
"I have terrible news ," he said. "Jonathan is dead."
"I have terrible news," he paused. "Jonathan is dead."
The question here becomes, why the pause? So this creates a question/tension that may cause the reader to continue on to find out.

Sherry

Re: Moving a Story Forward

"I have terrible news," he paused. "Jonathan is dead."

Hi Sherry! Here's my thinking: "he paused" isn't a long enough moment to actually create a pause for the reader. You're suggesting above that the mention of a pause creates tension; I'm thinking the experience of a pause creates tension.

An alternative - "I have terrible news," he said, gazing down at her shoes for so long she wanted to shake the words out of him or kick him for hoarding them. "Jonathan is dead," he said finally, and then she wanted to shove the words back into him.

In my example, the reader experiences the pause, as well as the character's internal reaction to it. In yours, the reader is told that there is a pause, in words that last the same length as "he said."

Neither option is the right one universally. I think it depends on the story. If you're writing a bare-bones story, "he paused" might be perfect. The author might not want us inside the character's head during that pause. And? Not giving us the character's response to the pause is the sort of unsaid that might amplify the silence.

But telling us how the listener FEELS during that pause might be exactly right for the story. For example, the tension in the scene might already be stretched taut, with the character at her limit, when that pause happens. And that pause is just long enough to drive her over the edge, and us with her, especially if we experience it alongside her. Also, of we experience the pause, we experience the tension of waiting for what comes next. We don't merely by being told there's a pause.

... what does the writer do to more a story forward?...  I mean the little things to get a reader to move from one paragraph to the next and to turn a page.  Is it a certain word you add that creates questions (or bubbles of tension)  that the reader wants answered?

Honestly, I think a reader moves from one paragraph to the next because the story is good. The tension slowly rises, the stakes are real, the characters are honestly depicted. We know it's heading somewhere and we want to know where.

Beyond that though, at the micro-level? I'm not quite sure how to answer this, so possibly I am missing experience vital to the question. I would say you touch on it above, with your suggestion of "pause" rather than "said." Word choice is a vital component of voice, tone, tempo! Does it make a reader read on? No idea? But I can't imagine the last moment of The Great Gatsby written any other way, and I remember that novel for its last moment. So possibly the words are the most important part of a novel. The style, the strategy of it all. Does a wordy novel push you to read on?

I've noticed I can cut paragraphs of exposition and achieve a MUCH stronger effect by saying in a line or two what it took me pages to say. A concise delivery can create a sense of suddenness. Then there are times when the long, sprawling effect is exactly what the scene needs. A bit of exposition placed just right can offer a sense of time passing and a drawn-in breath -- the "pause" of above. Maybe I want the reader to sit back and relax before I rip the rug out. Choose the wrong word by accident and you lose control of the scene; choose the wrong one purposefully and you could strike just the right chord of dissonance, adding an undercurrent of irony to an otherwise straightforward scene. And then there's the unsaid: if you don't say something explicitly, it can scream implicitly.

I have no idea if that answers your question! smile

Re: Moving a Story Forward

Sherry V. Ostroff wrote:

...what makes you like a book and want to read more?

Unanswered questions!  A million little mysteries, sprinkled like breadcrumbs throughout the narrative. Whenever possible, I leave unanswered questions about my character's motives, background, and their ability to resolve the story elements that challenge them.

Re: Moving a Story Forward

Okay, I'm going to get a little nit-picking here as far as the subject of moving the story forward is concerned -- any good thread always seems to veer from the path somewhat. That being said, if we're going to move forward, it just as well be logical. My concern is the use of "he paused" as a speaker tag as presented above. I bring this up only because it has been used in more than one post. It seems to me rather impossible to speak a pause. You can certainly have a pause after speaking, but you can't speak that pause; therefore it is not an effective speaker tag imho. Thus a period rather than a comma would seem more appropriate in the sentence "'I have terrible news,' he paused." ("... news." He paused.) Just a thought. Take care. Vern

Re: Moving a Story Forward

vern wrote:

Okay, I'm going to get a little nit-picking here as far as the subject of moving the story forward is concerned -- any good thread always seems to veer from the path somewhat. That being said, if we're going to move forward, it just as well be logical. My concern is the use of "he paused" as a speaker tag as presented above. I bring this up only because it has been used in more than one post. It seems to me rather impossible to speak a pause. You can certainly have a pause after speaking, but you can't speak that pause; therefore it is not an effective speaker tag imho. Thus a period rather than a comma would seem more appropriate in the sentence "'I have terrible news,' he paused." ("... news." He paused.) Just a thought. Take care. Vern

My thoughts exactly. I cringed when I read it.

Re: Moving a Story Forward

I enjoy a good story more than technically correct writing. Thus, I try to keep my characters doing or contemplating their next move. I like to leave hints of something coming down the road. By tossing in a new unknown, no matter how small, it leaves the reader wanting to  find out what the heck that's all about.  The only way to satisfy that unknown is to read on. Little teasers work great, I think.

My favorite author is Janet Evanovich. Her technical merits are good but not exceptional. But I find every main character interesting and her stories fast moving but like a well-oiled machine. She uses a lot of unnecessary dialogue tags but i don't care - her stories and characters are so damned engaging. I relish every book of hers. Her humor is a bit silly at times but I like that.

I think the author has to have a basic knowledge of what his/her target audience enjoys and write to that. . Although I am pretty good with grammar, punctuation and the like, I find it less important to me than the story telling. Different audiences and genres require different techniques for moving the story along. Thus, i do not think there is a "one size fits all" answer. I write in four different genres on a regular basis (Humor, Action Thriller, Mystery and Dramas set in the 1950s and 1960s). I use a different technique for each one. For Humor, set up a situation that the reader knows is going to be a calamity; for Action Thriller, set ther stage for something that's guaranteed to be thrilling and dangerous; for Mystery, leave unanswered clues along the way; for Dramas, create the setting for actions that are going to be tense, difficult and usually pit one character against another. But the ... you MUST deliver.

Bottom line for me ... tell me a good story (if you do it with perfect grammar, so much the better but not a deal breaker either way) and make me like your characters or make me enjoy not liking them.

Just my thoughts.

Alan

22 (edited by Sideman 2017-09-16 05:05:45)

Re: Moving a Story Forward

A quick follow-up to what I just posted. In a recent interview with James Patterson I read recently, he said (I'm somewhat paraphrasing) "I guess I'm okay with grammar and all that stuff, but I don't worry about it too much. But there aren't many people who can create a good story better than me." He also said he has hundreds of stories in his mind yet to write.

That speaks to me 100%.

Re: Moving a Story Forward

I ain't never been accused of being no grammar Nazi to which most anyone I've ever reviewed could attest since I generally state in my first review of an author that I don't as a rule comment on such. However, the speaker tag can sometimes be a special little nit -- I say "nit" for a reason as that is what I considered it to be in my previous comment. Now someone such as James Patterson may say he doesn't particularly dwell on grammar and I take that on face value and agree with it. But he also almost always uses said, asked, and other variations of speaker tags which can actually be spoken. Every instance I could find of him using "paused" was not used as a speake4 tag, but rather a separate description. I expect there is a reason for that beyond the casual attitude toward grammar. All this is not to say anyone who uses "he paused" or such as a speaker tag is doomed to literary hell as they could become a world famous author such as James Patterson and be the first to introduce us to the value of using such speaker tags. (As far as I can tell James Patterson hasn't done it.) Stranger things have happened. Take care. Vern

Re: Moving a Story Forward

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:
vern wrote:

Okay, I'm going to get a little nit-picking here as far as the subject of moving the story forward is concerned -- any good thread always seems to veer from the path somewhat. That being said, if we're going to move forward, it just as well be logical. My concern is the use of "he paused" as a speaker tag as presented above. I bring this up only because it has been used in more than one post. It seems to me rather impossible to speak a pause. You can certainly have a pause after speaking, but you can't speak that pause; therefore it is not an effective speaker tag imho. Thus a period rather than a comma would seem more appropriate in the sentence "'I have terrible news,' he paused." ("... news." He paused.) Just a thought. Take care. Vern

My thoughts exactly. I cringed when I read it.

I wasn't going to say anything, since that wasn't germane to the discussion, but you're both right.

And getting the reader involved in the story isn't a question of the mechanics (grammar, word choice, POV, etc.) of writing. It IS the art of storytelling--the stakes, the unanswered questions, the goals, and all of those unmeasurable qualities that make a reader want to know how it all turns out in the end, another reason why cliffhangers are so disappointing.

Re: Moving a Story Forward

Best part of this thread? People recoiling and cringing over Sherry's use of "paused" above. I noticed it. Vern noticed it. J.P. noticed it, and Janet. Yet within this same thread I see people (myself included) suggesting that really what keeps people reading are the story's stakes. What are we hung up on within this very thread, gentlemen? THE MECHANICS.

Sherry V. Ostroff wrote:

I am a member of another online writing group. I was involved in a discussion about what makes you like  a book and want to read more.  Or in another words, what does the writer do to more a story forward?

This is something I have been thinking a lot lately when analyzing my own writing and when critiquing yours.  I don't mean an earth-shattering event like an alien about to gobble up the earth. Which, by the way, always leaves me disappointed because what do you do for an encore?  I mean the little things to get a reader to move from one paragraph to the next and to turn a page.  Is it a certain word you add that creates questions (or bubbles of tension)  that the reader wants answered?

j p lundstrom wrote:

And getting the reader involved in the story isn't a question of the mechanics (grammar, word choice, POV, etc.) of writing. It IS the art of storytelling--the stakes, the unanswered questions, the goals, and all of those unmeasurable qualities that make a reader want to know how it all turns out in the end...

I've been thinking over this question more in the last few days. I'm really glad Sherry brought it up, because I think it's a really relevant question. We so often think about story-telling on the grand level -- theme, stakes, plot. But what about the effect of the little decisions, sentence by sentence?  Word choice, punctuation. I know we all think about them, but do we think about how they can inspire a reader to keep reading? As much, and I would argue, potentially MORE than high stakes? It's hard to answer "what do you do at the micro-level to keep readers reading?" because that depends on the story. But attention to detail -- to the affect of every word choice, every moment of punctuation? Certainly it can drain a reader as much as it might tickle her interest.

Which of these is most likely to inspire you to stop reading?

Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Everything was in confusion in the Oblonskys’ house. The wife had discovered that the husband was carrying on an intrigue with a French girl, who had been a governess in their family, and she had announced to her husband that she could not go on living in the same house with him. This position of affairs had now lasted three days, and not only the husband and wife themselves, but all the members of their family and household, were painfully conscious of it. Every person in the house felt that there was no sense in their living together, and that the stray people brought together by chance in any inn had more in common with one another than they, the members of the family and household of the Oblonskys. The wife did not leave her own room, the husband had not been at home for three days. The children ran wild all over the house; the English governess quarreled with the housekeeper, and wrote to a friend asking her to look out for a new situation for her; the man-cook had walked off the day before just at dinner time; the kitchen-maid, and the coachman had given warning.

- Anna Karenina, Leo Tolstoy, translated by Constance Garnett.

versus -

Happy families mirror one another most distinctly; every unhappy family identifies itself as unhappy in its own distinct way!

The Oblonskys’ house was positively drenched in confusion! The wife found herself besotted when she unearthed the untidy and extremely discomfiting truth that her betrothed had been fornicating with a French child who had once had the care and concern of their shared biological offspring in her trust! Well, she would have no more! She vociferously denoted her husband as no longer welcome in the house. This had gone on for three everlastingly stressful days, packed with heartbreak and stress of epic proportions, and now everyone in every nook and cranny of the house, even down to the scullery maid, was anxious to the brink! Every single solitary one of them decided the wife and husband ought to definitely separate good and for all, for the good of peace! They surmised that even dull people in inns who had nothing whatsoever in common had more in common than those Oblonskys! Mrs. Oblonsky hoarded away in her room, and Mr. Oblonsky was absentee for a whole half a week! Their biological offspring ran stark-wild in every nook and cranny of the house constantly and for a whole three days! The governess of English descent fought and bickered vociferously and with force with the housekeeper, and drawing out a pen and paper most haughtily, she sought another position with her inquiring pen. The man-cook walked out the door angrily on the third day just after the family consumed platefuls of little shapes mounted with steam upon which they scooped with their spoons, and announced himself with finality by action if not by word most emphatically through! The kitchen maid joined the coachman in declaring themselves (both he and she) quite decidedly over it and bound for personal freedom away from the Oblonsky house and its absolutely terrible atmosphere, an atmosphere rich with foreboding, as you will soon see.

They're not different in stakes or topic, but I think we can all agree the book would close after Choice #2.

I agree that the stakes & unanswered questions contribute to a fine story; but word choice is fundamental to the reading experience. It is the artist's paint. It shapes the narrative. It's the very thing that makes a simple story into literature. It points the reader's eye to theme, foreshadowing, subtext. It can transform a read from dull to fine art to an exhausting list of tedious descriptions.

An artist must not only have an interesting subject; she must have have control of every sentence. That is what makes the reader see her subject exactly as she intends.