Topic: Fishing for points

As much as a appreciate receiving critique, there are times when certain writers only fish for points, and it's very disappointing. The spirit of this community is to help each others, not to foster people who publish their stories and receive candid and useful feedback in exchange of nothing. The coin with which all of us pay for the feedback is feedback itself. When it's missing, it's like stealing!

I've just received this feedback from somebody who is clearly fishing for points. I.e., getting points to publish his story so he may get useful reviews, without providing useful feedback himself. I know not all writers are seasoned reviewers, but when somebody fills a review with cliches and common places, and is reviewing first time ever a chapter deep in the middle of your story, you can tell it's FAKE.

I've just published chapter 41 and this is the feedback I've just received from somebody who hasn't read the other 40 chapters :

Where Heaven and Hell Meet  by Mariana Reuter
Comment to CHAPTER 41 (no comments received from this reviewer to any previous chapter):
I loved this chapter. It is filled with interesting characters and vivid dialogue nitting together the wonderful prose. I read this and loved the way my attention was held right until the very last word. The tension builds and builds grabbing you by the throat and not letting go. Good stuff.


The  below are two samples of the comments this reviewer usually issues. They were posted to the most recent chapters published by two other authors. Can you see the pattern? General, praising comments to the last chapter published without further knowledge of the story, making sure the minimum word count is reached so the points are earned. Of course, the comments are useless.

-----------------------------
Raven's Curse
by CJ Driftwood
Comment to Chapter 73(no comments posted by this reviewer to any previous chapter):
Vivid prose and sparkling dialogue lift this chapter above the ordinary to a new level, that I haven't experienced for a long time. Brilliantly descriptive it was like watching a painter develop his painting from the start and use his words like a brush on a canvas. A really first class job
-----------------------------
Forbidden Fruit (Final) by Nynative1
Comment to CHAPTER 17 (no comments posted by this reviewer to any previous chapter):
I put off reading this because it didn't really sound my kind of book.

But now Ii have read this chapter I want to read it all.

I enjoyed the story, not for the sex but because I was more interested in the storyline. I found myself enjoying the storyline as it is quite realistic. I enjoyed the story as it is an easy to read love story in a world, of pretty decent characters.
------------------------------

Of course, I won't reciprocate.

Apologies for the rant, but this kind of people really frustrate me. We're trying to build a community here, not to provided feedback to any smart guy seeking editors and beta readers for free.

Kiss,

Gacela

Quote Post 1

Re: Fishing for points

Aw, gee, he didn't review my book. sad

Quote Post 2

Re: Fishing for points

I've had that happen a couple of times. When I quickee'd one reviewer back, asking how well he liked the interplay between the two main characters, he told me he'd loved the dialogue. This was bogus, as I'd made the two names up just for this particular quickee. Needless to say, I didn't reciprocate.

Bill

Quote Post 3

Re: Fishing for points

Gacela,
The same person left the following on ch17 of Dangerous Alliance: I know I have only started reading this story from Chapter 17, but I really got into this, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It had me on the edge of my seat and if it had been a book, it is what would be known as a real page turner. I am going to start reading the rest soon.

I did read/review the first chapter of his posted work and he thanked me and said my remarks were very constructive, but there's been nothing further from him since. Regards, Randy

Quote Post 4

Re: Fishing for points

Oops. I misspoke. He did review a chapter of my book. As with the above, a glowing, non-specific review of a chapter well into the story. But I gave him the benefit of the doubt and reviewed his first three chapters; at first I received no feedback, and then when I complained (just a little), he gave me a generic thanks. He seems to be a serious writer, so maybe he just needs to see this forum to understand that what he's doing doesn't cut it. If you're reading this, (name withheld), I suggest you do in-line reviews in the future to show that you really did read the chapter reviewed and are willing to spend valuable time critiquing it.

Quote Post 5

Re: Fishing for points

Well, damn. Now I've got to go look to see who y'all are talking about!!

Quote Post 6

7 Reply by B Douglas Slack (edited by B Douglas Slack 2017-05-23 00:35:32)

Re: Fishing for points

Aha! He reviewed Chapter 7 of The Long Trek Home. It was similar to Randy's review, short and filled with generalities. Nothing more since that review.

Bill

Quote Post 7

Re: Fishing for points

I know this happens; it's happened to all of us. My most memorable review was the one that took me to task for not describing the meal, who was there, what was eaten, the flavors, textures, aromas, etc. My response? Dinner was over; the meal was eaten in the previous chapter. There used to be a cautionary note about reviewing random chapters. Is it still there in the directions for posting reviews? I consider it bad manners to jump into  the middle of a book/ story/ novella for the purpose of writing a review.

I usually send a one-sentence response thanking the reviewer. Sometimes I don't reciprocate. Sometimes I review a short selection of theirs. The last time it happened I blocked that individual. (What can I say? He/ she made me mad, wasting my time.)

I think the problem may stem in part from the current custom of reviewing everything from handbags to garbage bags for online shoppers. In the case of written works, reviewers are cautioned not to reveal spoilers. That may influence new tnbw reviewers in their hesitancy to mention specifics. OF COURSE, THAT DOESN'T EXCUSE THOSE LAZY BUMS WHO PERSIST IN THEIR LAME REVIEWS.

We really don't want that kind of reviews. We are asking for critiques of our writing. We want specifics. We want to edit our work. We want to produce the best work we can. Maybe, for some, the solution is as simple as a change in nomenclature

Quote Post 8

Re: Fishing for points

Yup...I have a reviewer who gave three identical reviews for three drastically different chapters...Just kinda laughed and moved on since my helpful reviewers outweigh the fakers.....

Quote Post 9

Re: Fishing for points

I've had them too. I've even had some that literally copied and pasted a portion of a chapter just to get 50 words.

Quote Post 10

Re: Fishing for points

Sometimes, I feel better these kind of reviews than egocentric, authoritative amateur writers who pile energy and hours into suggestions that you should re-write your prose into something just like they would write and that when you read their stuff, it is not up to a standard that you would ever pay to read.

I’ve seen flawed technical advice, insistent editorials and authoritative directives kill many a fresh and vibrant literary voice over the eleven years I’ve been on this site.   

That said, these reviewers could at least aim to point out three typos or three improved word choices.

Quote Post 11

Re: Fishing for points

As a community, we should welcome new starters and give them confidence rather than criticise them publicly. Reviewing isn’t easy for beginners who have never done it before so we should offer our support, especially if we want people to stick around. Personally, I know my first reviews were worthless, but because of the kindness of some patient members, I have learned a lot about reviewing as well as writing and (I hope) my reviews aren't worthless anymore. Perhaps we could have a template of sample questions for new reviewers to help them become comfortable with reviewing.
Simple things like;
What did you like about the chapter?
What could be improved?
Etc.

Quote Post 12

Re: Fishing for points

All good ideas Suin:
Simple things like;
What did you like about the chapter?
What could be improved?

And I'm sure your first reviews were genuine not just given to garner points...

Quote Post 13

Re: Fishing for points

The site already has a section under Help for reviewing work and providing feedback, so it would probably be easy to add Suin's suggestions.

Quote Post 14

Re: Fishing for points

As a new member myself, I'm finding that the genius of this site is in the currency of its economy.

Points are only the beginning. I would argue that the more valuable currency is actually generosity.  It's brilliant, because while you need points to publish to certain groups, points alone are not enough to get what you really want. The best reviews are going to come from people who genuinely care about you; and you're not going to get anyone to care by fishing for points.

Call it Karma Economy.  I could follow up with all the benefits (for your own craft) of deliberately practicing good review writing--but nobody likes a windbag.

A few years ago, Adam Grant wrote a book entitled, "Give and Take: Why Helping Others Drives Our Success," in which he argues that there are 3 kinds of people: Takers, Matchers, and Givers.  You get the idea.  It's super interesting.  While Takers may do well in the short term, Givers (when they understand how not to be doormats), actually far out-succeed the general population.

Quote Post 15

Re: Fishing for points

It's happened a few times with my, I assume because i have long chapter worth a lot of points. I've even had a Inline review that miraculously, I only had issues with the first two paragraphs- everything after was spot on. I ignore them and don't reciprocate. Whatever. You get back what you put in. In the long run, they only short-change themselves.

Quote Post 16

Re: Fishing for points

Suin wrote:

As a community, we should welcome new starters and give them confidence rather than criticise them publicly. Reviewing isn’t easy for beginners who have never done it before so we should offer our support, especially if we want people to stick around. Personally, I know my first reviews were worthless, but because of the kindness of some patient members, I have learned a lot about reviewing as well as writing and (I hope) my reviews aren't worthless anymore. Perhaps we could have a template of sample questions for new reviewers to help them become comfortable with reviewing.
Simple things like;
What did you like about the chapter?
What could be improved?
Etc.

I don't think this is what Gacela is talking about. You can tell the difference between someone's review who is only grabbing points and someone struggling to give an honest review.

Quote Post 17

Re: Fishing for points

C J Driftwood wrote:
Suin wrote:

As a community, we should welcome new starters and give them confidence rather than criticise them publicly. Reviewing isn’t easy for beginners who have never done it before so we should offer our support, especially if we want people to stick around. Personally, I know my first reviews were worthless, but because of the kindness of some patient members, I have learned a lot about reviewing as well as writing and (I hope) my reviews aren't worthless anymore. Perhaps we could have a template of sample questions for new reviewers to help them become comfortable with reviewing.
Simple things like;
What did you like about the chapter?
What could be improved?
Etc.

I don't think this is what Gacela is talking about. You can tell the difference between someone's review who is only grabbing points and someone struggling to give an honest review.

Indeed, that's what I'm talking about. It's easy to tell a honest review from a fake one. Even if the person is new to reviewing, it's evident when somebody does their best commenting here and there. Moreover, a serious reviewer usually starts in chapter 1, looking forward to getting into the story.

But when somebody posts a review of chapter 43 saying how wonderful a writer you are, and even adding it's not the genre the reviewer is into but your random chapter caught their attention beyond sanity, then you can tell the reviewer is a point-grabber. Just check this person's reviewing history. Except for one story it seems he's truly reviewing, the rest of his posts are almost exactly the same, only addapting the wording here and there.

I agree honesty and karma are the real currency in this site. The points are certainly required for posting, but once you turn into a regular reviewer, and once you build a community of friends whose work you regularly review, and who regularly review yours, then you end up with more points that the ones you need. The points are a safeguard against opportunistic writers, usually new-comers to the site, who post their work expecting comments without giving back anything in exchange. Sooner or later they end up without any friends, and without any reviews.

Kiss,

Gacela

Quote Post 18