Group access vs. display vs. visible? (Page 1 of 2)

I definitely agree, Dirk. I can find posts I made on my books that I would rather not have out there for all to view because of the spoiler potential. Who wants to read a book that has a huge spoiler visible?

~Tom

You also have to consider posting in any thread where you don't really have much control as to what others say in the same thread. I've been in a number of threads that went off the rails into ranting arguments. Most of us just quietly exit the thread. However, if it's public, your name is tied to its content, including whatever rude or inappropriate comments are being made. Just imagine, everything we've ever said or asked in Premium is public for the whole Internet.

You have a valid point, Linda, and if some of it has to be public, so be it. Buyer beware.

However, we still don't know how to set group access, display, and visibility settings to create a group that is as open as possible to members while keeping the forum private. Sol said the forums can be made private, but the solution he offered didn't work. Several of us have tried. I also couldn't find a definition of access, display, and visibility in the site's help section.

I hope he'll weigh in with a clearer explanation about this.

If I choose a different pen name, rename my characters (a process that I dread), rename all of my locations, and change my titles, this information shouldn't be easily found. However, I've decided on names that I like and they are distinctive enough that they pop to the top on an internet search. Part of the disadvantages of trying to write fantasy.

Three words, Linda. I can find my forum in three words.

And I don't that public forums are an upside. Your example had his information stolen because of a public forum, requiring massive time and emotional wear-and-tear as he fought to benefit from his ideas. The stored archived and timed information let him win the case, but if it hadn't been public, the whole thing wouldn't have happened. He might have won money for his effort, but how much of it went to lawyers? Will he ever have a career in Hollywood for writing this blockbuster?

Our site is dark now. I can google those same words, and get the same hit to my info popping up at the top. However, the site blocks access now because it is private and requires a password.

I don't find your suggestion helpful of doing plot specific conversations over private messaging. How can you have a forum and not talk about plot? I've found a writers group here. A real group. They know my work and keep track of continuity. This is in large part because we aren't passing notes back and forth under the table. Instead, my experience is like talking over a table with a group of friends. There aren't a whole lot of barriers and we can speak what is on our mind.

And here is an example where things could get uncomfortable for the writer who is 'exposed' by a casual google that reaches the forum. Think of the Romance group, where anatomical questions are debated and sexual positions are discussed.  One of our members is in this group. I googled the name of her characters and the title. Boom. Right at the top of a search. Then I added the search word: Romance. That got me to the Romance page. A quick link got me to the forum list of conversations and straight to the 'adult content' link. Five clicks and I was reading up on p***s sizes. This was done while I was NOT signed in, yet I had full access to this forum.

That much access is inappropriate. If our writing is protected by TNBW, then the forums can be protected. Note that my search didn't reveal my books or the text involved. It also didn't reveal the old information from the forums that Sol took down on the old site.

I discussed deleting the site entirely and starting fresh so that the material wasn't so easy to find. Instead, we're going dark. That will continue until this problem is resolved. I'm doing it to protect friends. I'm also protecting their time and life's work. They have reason to be proud of what they are creating.

A

This has nothing to do with this issue Janet. Before I signed up, I made sure my rights would still be intact. However, the main reason of this protection was, you need a password to sign in. The issue is, you don't need a password to access our forum posts. That's a big deal. Yes, anyone can create a profile and have access, but again, they need to dig deeper than a simple Google search to get the brilliant idea and two, they need to go through a bit more effort to gain access compared to clicking on a link. But this is me, because I for one have been using the forums extensively for feedback and advice.

I'm not worried about having my material poached. I'm worried about plot spoilers and sequel information splashed over the internet. I'm working on multiple books at the same time. My forum posts reflect this.

This site is based on the concept that one of us…many of us…somewhere…sometime…are going to make it big. Most of us plan on self-publishing if no agent shows interest. We will see our books in print. For these people, this isn't that big of a deal. However, if any of us ever want to work with a publisher, this is a REALLY big deal. You can bet they will google our names and the names of our characters/ title of our books. They will search out our websites. Finding the plot laid out on a public forum would be cause for dismissal.

Not that I ever expect to follow in JK Rowling's footsteps, but her example is pertinent. She kept the plot a secret for seven years. The release of those books was a world-wide event. I'm not like her because I can't write in a vacuum. I need to unlearn bad habits and polish my writing style.

So I'm in a bind because I need the internet.

I need people. In my hometown, I never found a group so fine as the one I've found in this community. However, our group forum is full of plot discussions. My fault, really. One of my cohorts calls me the 'plot killer' because I read and remember. He has his characters do or say something and I retort, "Um. No. Remember when you said…" He throws food at his computer screen and howls, but he knows that I improve his continuity.

So, as I said, this is a big deal.

Sol, can you weigh in?

Let's get realistic; nothing is safe on the internet, period. Just being a premium member and posting to only groups/connections does not protect your work. For less than ten bucks, anyone can join for a month and have access to all posted work of premium or basic members and it's doubtful even the private groups would turn down a potential new member should they ask to join. Ten bucks is not going to really thwart anyone so inclined; it's probably cheaper and faster than hacking the old fashioned way.

As Linda pointed out, the automatic copyright on site protects your work as well as anything and can be used in court to defend it and go after anyone who profits from it. Of course using a pen name is a no brainer should your work become famous and someone starts to Google  your name to find non-public info. If I Google my real name, none of my writing shows up since I don't use it, at least in the first million or so entries and should someone want to put that much effort into finding it, then there is probably nothing which can prevent it, and certainly no constraints on this or any other writing site.

Common sense is our best defense, but yeah, I wouldn't mind paying the lawyers after the fact that someone else has made millions from my work when so far I haven't been able to get a traditional publisher or movie mogul interested as the original author. If someone else can knock down the doors, then all they need do is come to me and I'll gladly offer an agent's commission for their efforts.

So, yeah, we can worry ourselves sick over the possibility of our work being hijacked or we can accept that absolutely nothing is safe from prying eyes on the internet and deal with any future stolen property rights with the courts on our side should it come to that. Just my opinion which has been stated in similar forums before this one. Take care. Vern

This is a slightly different issue though Vern. For one, it will (should IMO)  take more than a simple google search to gain access. That is my problem. It doesn't make sense that I have to access the site with a password and have the option to hide my work within the site from the wider internet, but the forums are a free for all. Sure, with sufficient motivation anything can be done, but really, one click? No effort?

At least registered users have agreed to respect copyright.  This won't help the JKRowlings among us, but those are few.  The rest of us at least have taken the bare minimum or action to assert our rights, and that's the first step to protecting them.

This is a huge issue for anyone hoping to get an agent or publisher for their work. If the world can already see the story, why should a publisher waste his time!

Absolutely right. A person is very unlikely to steal something that they don't even know is out there. If a person has to get a membership to access the forums then they have to put a lot more effort into their crookedness then a simple google search that a monkey can do. And they are easier to tack and catch.

Vern, when you go to sue someone for acting against you, there are defenses that amount to "He left the gate open and didn't even put up a sign."  (See Adverse Possession in real property law.)
What Amy and others here are asking for is to close the gate and put up the sign.  If someone breaks in, it's breaking and entry, and not just a tort of some kind.

What basis or experience leads you to say this?