Re: Male to Female Ratios

Sorry. smile I'm a very literal person.

-Elisheva

Re: Male to Female Ratios

One word: tongue-in-cheek. Okay, it's a hyphenated word, but still one word. And possibly there is a definition in there somewhere if you look at it seriously. Take care. Vern

28 (edited by Dill Carver 2015-08-20 03:03:05)

Re: Male to Female Ratios

Elisheva Free wrote:

Sorry. smile I'm a very literal person.

-Elisheva

s'alright -Elisheva, you’re okay. Mighty fine.

I was being a complete arse. It used to be my permanent role upon the previous iteration of this site.

I haven’t been around in a long while and was just looking for a pulse; waving the red rag. I knew that I’d invoke a few pilgrims and an innocent or two, but I was fishing; seeing if I couldn’t raise one of my old hard-bitten tNBW lady friends to smack me down verbally.

I suppose they’ve all passed away by now. For they were all very old with shrivelled hearts and other peoples hair and teeth; and yet I loved them dearly.

'Vern the Wise', site transition survivor; he’s heard it all and seen it all before. Several times.

Re: Male to Female Ratios

Dill Carver wrote:
Elisheva Free wrote:

Sorry. :) I'm a very literal person.

-Elisheva

s'alright -Elisheva, you’re okay. Mighty fine.

I was being a complete arse. It used to be my permanent role upon the previous iteration of this site.

I haven’t been around in a long while and was just looking for a pulse; waving the red rag. I knew that I’d invoke a few pilgrims and an innocent or two, but I was fishing; seeing if I couldn’t raise one of my old hard-bitten tNBW lady friends to smack me down verbally.

I suppose they’ve all passed away by now. For they were all very old with shrivelled hearts and other peoples hair and teeth; and yet I loved them dearly.

'Vern the Wise', site transition survivor; he’s heard it all and seen it all before. Several times.

'Twouldn't be the same without your wit and wisdom, Dill. 'Twas like the good old days yesterday.

Memphis

Re: Male to Female Ratios

Dill Carver wrote:

I was being a complete arse. It used to be my permanent role ...

I don't think something can "used to be" your permanent role. You're either a permanent arse or you're half-arsed. I've always believed you to be half-arsed.

31

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Half-arsed?  Oh, that's a problem.

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Indeed it is. Leave it to a woman to point it out!

33 (edited by Dill Carver 2015-08-20 21:53:18)

Re: Male to Female Ratios

corra wrote:
Dill Carver wrote:

I was being a complete arse. It used to be my permanent role ...

I don't think something can "used to be" your permanent role. You're either a permanent arse or you're half-arsed. I've always believed you to be half-arsed.

See, now you are the arse. Baton passed and all that...

34 (edited by Dill Carver 2015-08-21 05:20:03)

Re: Male to Female Ratios

Back to the subject of the thread....

Although I was somewhat flippant within my first post, it turns out that I was actually very near the truth. Within a binder I found this quote from an old author of note, Jane Austen.

Jane Austen wrote:

I like to maintain a high ratio of female characters within my writing.  I feel this provides me with far more scope for my characters to be irrational, illogical and emotionally flawed. You can have them distracted from key aspects of the plot by; say a new petticoat or an impending visit to the haberdashery shop. There is the opportunity for humourist sub-plots where they’ll get lost by reading a parchment map upside-down or baffled by (or fumbling with) technological devices like a spinning-wheel or circular saw. The image of a female character running in her bustle is also great imagery as is their inability to invent anything or park the horse without gross inefficiency and episodic behaviour.

Re: Male to Female Ratios

Dill Carver wrote:

Back to the subject of the thread....

Although I was somewhat flippant within my first post, it turns out that I was actually very near the truth. Within a binder I found this quote from an old author of note, Jane Austen.

Jane Austen wrote:

I like to maintain a high ratio of female characters within my writing.  I feel this provides me with far more scope for my characters to be irrational, illogical and emotionally flawed. You can have them distracted from key aspects of the plot by; say a new petticoat or an impending visit to the haberdashery shop. There is the opportunity for humourist sub-plots where they’ll get lost by reading a parchment map upside-down or baffled by (or fumbling with) technological devices like a spinning-wheel or circular saw. The image of a female character running in her bustle is also great imagery as is their inability to invent anything or park the horse without gross inefficiency and episodic behaviour.

Such female characters provide the opportunity for the author to yakety-yak about this and that, for there to be dialogue having little or nothing to do with plot, theme, or the historicity behind the story, if any, though perhaps with characterization, humor, and verbal divertimento in mind.

Re: Male to Female Ratios

Dill Carver wrote:

Back to the subject of the thread....

Although I was somewhat flippant within my first post, it turns out that I was actually very near the truth. Within a binder I found this quote from an old author of note, Jane Austen.

Jane Austen wrote:

I like to maintain a high ratio of female characters within my writing.  I feel this provides me with far more scope for my characters to be irrational, illogical and emotionally flawed. You can have them distracted from key aspects of the plot by; say a new petticoat or an impending visit to the haberdashery shop. There is the opportunity for humourist sub-plots where they’ll get lost by reading a parchment map upside-down or baffled by (or fumbling with) technological devices like a spinning-wheel or circular saw. The image of a female character running in her bustle is also great imagery as is their inability to invent anything or park the horse without gross inefficiency and episodic behaviour.

Har! That's not an arse! That's a farce, sir! You were hardly somewhat flippant.

“Miss Austen’s novels … seem to me vulgar in tone, sterile in artistic invention, imprisoned in the wretched conventions of English society, without genius, wit, or knowledge of the world. Never was life so pinched and narrow. The one problem in the mind of the writer … is marriageableness.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

“To me [Edgar Allen Poe’s] prose is unreadable—like Jane Austin’s [sic]. No there is a difference. I could read his prose on salary, but not Jane’s. Jane is entirely impossible. It seems a great pity that they allowed her to die a natural death.” ― Mark Twain

“I had not seen Pride and Prejudice, till I read that sentence of yours, and then I got the book. And what did I find? An accurate daguerreotyped portrait of a common-place face; a carefully fenced, highly cultivated garden, with neat borders and delicate flowers; but no glance of a bright, vivid physiognomy, no open country, no fresh air, no blue hill, no bonny beck. I should hardly like to live with her ladies and gentlemen, in their elegant but confined houses.” ― Charlotte Brontë

“As for admiration, it was always very welcome when it came, but she did not depend on it.” ― Jane Austen

Your binder of nonsense contains an anachronism which makes abundantly obvious --- but I was going to say something sexist. (I shall keep the baton for a while just the same, if you don't mind. You're forever hoarding it.)

Re: Male to Female Ratios

I walked home with Dill and returned in time to overhear Atticus saying to Aunty, “…in favor of Southern womanhood as much as anybody, but not for preserving polite fiction at the expense of human life,” a pronouncement that made me suspect they had been fussing again.  -- Harper Lee - To Kill A Mockingbird

Re: Male to Female Ratios

I agree with Atticus. If I remember right, in this passage he's arguing with Aunt Alexandria about her insistence that Scout wear frilly dresses & speak politely & enact her polite female role when she'd rather slouch, curse a bit, & learn to shoot. Atticus has given Scout freedom in her childhood (matching Jem's freedom) which Aunt Alexandria finds appalling, because Scout is a girl. Atticus is defending Scout's freedom. I think Miss Austen would agree -- entirely.

"As sure as time, history is repeating itself, and as sure as man is man, history is the last place he’ll look for his lessons."
― Harper Lee, Go Set a Watchman

(Since you brought up Austen, I shall lecture.)

Austen was critiquing what she appears to be supporting in her novels -- the idea (propagated by most of the literature women were reading at the time) that the best use of a woman's brainpower was in silly novels, silly rituals, and the "happily ever after" that generally meant a very early marriage that would rob a woman of her freedom, her money, and her health (since she would inevitably have a dozen babies and then drop dead at thirty-five, so her husband could get himself a new bride and do it all over again. I reference my own family's history, for one thing! A grandmother of mine was married at TWELVE.) Austen couldn't very well come out & say what she thought of the social oppression of her gender, or she'd end up ostracized like Mary Wollstonecraft. So she wrote quiet novels that gently poked fun at the institution. In her novels women often faint or live entirely for catching a husband. These women often (to comic effect) destroy their own characters and self-respect to get their ultimate prize (marriage). Women become devious in their hunt for this prize -- as illustrated by Caroline Bingley (Pride & Prejudice) and Lucy Steele (Sense & Sensibility.)

But some of the women in the novels begin to understand the folly of such behavior, & realize an inner self. These characters don't marry out of desperation: they marry because they find a man worthy of their own character. All of Austen's novels are about the desperate place women were pushed into. The heroines are often poor, about to be destitute, and desperate to marry so that they won't starve to death. The whole thing is about the tight space: parlor conversations which seem tedious (they probably were), the inability to even get out of the house without a conveyance and a chaperone, tight confined writing that barely registers emotion, a heroine's tale that ultimately leads to some fabled happily ever after that the reader hears about but never sees. Austen even describes the weddings as if they are beside the point.

Northanger Abbey mocks the way a woman's brain was infantilized by silly literature. Pride & Prejudice is a teasing story about the very serious fact that if a father died and his land was entailed, the women, if unmarried, were destitute and had to live out a life of poverty or hope for brothers to whom they could expect to cling for life. Emma contemplates what happens to a woman who is rich and busy, but has absolutely nothing constructive to do, no education, no prospects, only everlasting "politeness." Mansfield Park considers the moral foundation of the male figure in the family, who lectures about duty while making his fortune off the back of slavery. Austen's work is rich! Critical, subtle, humorous, and groundbreaking, for its day. For our day, actually.

While I'm lecturing, I'll add that Louisa May Alcott in Little Women critiques the same thing -- giving us a Jo of bright mind and strong passions, who wants to write novels & have the sort of freedom her neighbor Laurie (a boy) takes for granted: the ability to go to college, to travel the world, to learn whatever he likes. Meanwhile, she's to stay at home and become a good "little woman." Alcott offers us girls who are happy with this lot (as many likely were), and a girl who is not. Alongside this, she contrasts the lure of freedom with the sincere beauty of home -- illustrating the conflict many women faced as they sought both careers and motherhood.

All of which I mention because too often I find literature by classic women writers dismissed as "a silly love story" or some such, and I feel quite passionate about setting that right. Girls read Hemingway and Mark Twain all the time, but when a boy is assigned a novel about a girl's struggles in history, the noses wrinkle, & the jokes begin. Well, we are all utterly human, and this little woman declares that she finds enormous richness in books by women, and that she is currently reading Little Women for the fourth time. And that love stories have their decided place in the life of human history, for when we look back on our lives, isn't it the love which we will remember? x

Re: Male to Female Ratios

Dill Carver wrote:
Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

You've received some good advice.

Thanks!

Someone needs an education:

Here are just FIVE of us useless, irrational, emotionally disturbed FEMALES who invented some very important things.

5 Female Inventors Who Changed Life As We Know It
We all know the names of certain famous male inventors throughout history, from Galileo to Alexander Graham Bell to Steve Jobs, but many women have also contributed groundbreaking ideas to science, technology, and our daily lives. Here are five female inventors whose innovations, both large and small, have improved our world in various ways.

Margaret Knight (1838-1914)
Margaret Knight was nicknamed "the lady Edison for her prolific inventions which included a safety device for textile looms, shoe manufacturing machines, a rotary engine and internal combustion engine, among many others.
Margaret Knight was an exceptionally prolific inventor in the late 19th century; journalists occasionally compared her to her better-known male contemporaryThomas Edison by nicknaming her “the lady Edison” or “a woman Edison.” Knight was born in York, Maine and was still a young girl when she began working in a textile mill in New Hampshire. After seeing a fellow worker injured by a faulty piece of equipment, Knight came up with her first invention: a safety device for textile looms. She was awarded her first patent in 1871, for a machine that cut, folded and glued flat-bottomed paper shopping bags, thus eliminating the need for workers to assemble them slowly by hand. Knight received 27 patents in her lifetime, for inventions including shoe-manufacturing machines, a “dress shield” to protect garments from perspiration stains, a rotary engine and an internal combustion engine.
Margaret Knight's patent for a machine that cut, folded and glued flat-bottomed paper shopping bags, thus eliminating the need for workers to assemble them slowly by hand.

Melitta Bentz (1873-1950)
Melitta Bentz was a German housewife who invented a coffee filter system in 1908 and founded a business that still exists today.
Have you ever wondered who to thank when you’re getting your coffeemaker ready for your first cup of the day? Coffee beans have been made into beverages since the eleventh century, but a German housewife named Melitta Bentz updated brewing for the modern world. At the turn of the 20th century, the usual method was to tie up the coffee grounds in a small cloth bag and place the bag into a pot of boiling water; the result was a bitter, gritty drink. Bentz came up with a new method. She put a piece of thick, absorbent paper into a brass pot with a few holes punched in it and poured the coffee through this two-part contraption, which trapped the grounds and allowed the filtered liquid to seep through and drip into a waiting cup. She received a patent for her coffee filter system in 1908 and founded a business that still exists today.

Caresse Crosby (1891-1970)
Mary Phelps Jacob, who later became known as Caress Crosby, revolutionized women's undergarments with her invention of a "backless brassiere."
Sometimes it takes a woman to know what other women really need. In 1910, Mary Phelps Jacob — later known as Caresse Crosby— was a young, educated socialite living in New York City. One day, feeling frustrated by the bulky and restrictive corset that women customarily wore beneath their clothing, she asked her maid to bring her two handkerchiefs, some ribbons, and a few pins. From these items she fashioned a lighter, more flexible undergarment that she called a “backless brassiere.” In 1914 she received a patent for her idea and a few years later she founded the Fashion Form Brassière Company to manufacture and sell her invention. She eventually sold her patent to Warner Brothers Corset Company, which began producing bras in large quantities. Women have literally breathed easier ever since.
Feeling frustrated by the bulky and restrictive corset that women customarily wore beneath their clothing, Mary Phelps Jacob patented this design for a lighter, more flexible undergarment.

Katharine Burr Blodgett (1898-1979)
Physicist Katharine Blodgett in the General Electric research laboratory in 1938. One of her most influential inventions was non-reflective glass.
Scientist and inventor Katharine Blodgett was educated at Bryn Mawr College and the University of Chicago. Then she became a pioneer in several respects: she was the first woman to receive a Ph.D in physics at England’s Cambridge University and the first woman hired by General Electric. During World War II, Blodgett contributed important research to military needs like gas masks, smoke screens and a new technique for de-icing airplane wings. Her work in chemistry, specifically in surfaces at the molecular level, resulted in her most influential invention: non-reflective glass. Her “invisible” glass was initially used for lenses in cameras and movie projectors; it also had military applications such as wartime submarine periscopes. Today, non-reflective glass is still essential for eyeglasses, car windshields and computer screens.

Stephanie Kwolek (1923-2014)
In 1965, Stephanie Kwolek created an unusually lightweight and durable new fiber which was later developed by DuPont into the synthetic Kevlar, which is used in everything from military helmets and bulletproof vests to work-gloves, sports equipment, fiber-optic cables and building materials .
Shortly after graduating from Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Stephanie Kwolek began working at the chemical company DuPont, where she would spend 40 years of her career. She was assigned to work on formulating new synthetic fibers, and in 1965 she made an especially important discovery. While working with a liquid crystal solution of large molecules called polymers, she created an unusually lightweight and durable new fiber. This material was later developed by DuPont into Kevlar, a tough yet versatile synthetic used in everything from military helmets and bulletproof vests to work-gloves, sports equipment, fiber-optic cables and building materials. Kwolek was awarded the National Medal of Technology for her research on synthetic fibers and was inducted into the National Inventors Hall of Fame in 1994

Re: Male to Female Ratios

Wow. I had no idea there were so many awesome female inventors out there. Thanks, Janet!

-Elisheva

Re: Male to Female Ratios

Elisheva Free wrote:

Wow. I had no idea there were so many awesome female inventors out there. Thanks, Janet!

-Elisheva

You are welcome.

Re: Male to Female Ratios

Elisheva Free wrote:

Wow. I had no idea there were so many awesome female inventors out there. Thanks, Janet!

-Elisheva

Five? and one of them a 'world shaping' backless bra?

My God but you lot are clutching at straws.

Actually, it was me who invented the backless bra in haste and by accident during a fumble behind a carnival tent aged 16, inexperienced as I was in respect of the mysteries of lingerie fastening.

Re: Male to Female Ratios

Corra quoted: "As sure as time, history is repeating itself, and as sure as man is man, history is the last place he’ll look for his lessons."
― Harper Lee, Go Set a Watchman

Hi, Corra, so, I read Go Set a Watchman as soon as it came out, but although I did like it, I didn't find it as, well, I'll just say entertaining as To Kill a Mockingbird. I found myself agreeing with the editor who asked that she rewrite the original manuscript using the pov of Scout which resulted in the classic To Kill a Mockingbird. Just curious as to your opinion in contrasting the two works.

Glad to see you and Dill back in the fray btw; makes for a livelier place. Take care. Vern

Re: Male to Female Ratios

....aaaaand Corra moves in for the Dill smack down....Yay! It's starting to feel like home again (except I miss the old names) smile

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Re: Male to Female Ratios

You might also look up the story of 'Miss Tilly's orifice'.

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Linda Lee wrote:

....aaaaand Corra moves in for the Dill smack down....

Shake the grave and look what pops up!  The defender of inventors of irrelevant lingerie.

Tell you what, I've just invented the frontless bra!

Bam! Just like that and with some glossy marketing, you'll all want one.

If I can invent four more semi-useless contraptions tonight I'll have out invented womanhood for the whole of history.

Re: Male to Female Ratios

I just wanted to point out that I believe the "backless brassiere" has been misinterpreted here. If I am understanding it correctly, it is not actually backless, but instead simply has less backing than, say, a corset. The "backless brassiere" is actually the modern-day bra. So, excluding a strange stint in the 90's, pretty much every woman uses it on a daily basis. Anyone that has invented anything that is now used on a daily basis by millions of people deserves quite a bit less criticism than what is being dished out here.

-Elisheva

48 (edited by Janet Taylor-Perry 2015-08-26 02:01:33)

Re: Male to Female Ratios

Dill Carver wrote:
Elisheva Free wrote:

Wow. I had no idea there were so many awesome female inventors out there. Thanks, Janet!

-Elisheva

Five? and one of them a 'world shaping' backless bra?

My God but you lot are clutching at straws.

Actually, it was me who invented the backless bra in haste and by accident during a fumble behind a carnival tent aged 16, inexperienced as I was in respect of the mysteries of lingerie fastening.

You want more? Research it for yourself. I've done enough. Frankly, this has gotten off topic. I believe the topic was about male to female ratios. To that, I say write what feels right.

Re: Male to Female Ratios

dagnee wrote:

As far as the topic at hand, I believe in approaching people on an individual basis, without preconceived notions of how they should behave based on ancient gender stereotypes.

That is a wonderful mindset to have. Thank you. smile

Of course, that doesn't mean we can't write about that one frustratingly old-fashioned character every once in a while. You know, the one that refuses all facts given to him/her and simply insists the other gender is completely useless, irrational, and/or simple-minded. Those are fun to write, don't you think?

-Elisheva

Re: Male to Female Ratios

Ancient gender stereotypes?

Of course if we conform to producing politically correct middle ground equality mush we'd be robbed of the power of great stories like 'Thelma and Louise' where real world sexism, machismo and sexist stereotypes deliver a prolific message upon those conditions.

Nowadays it is thought to be expected to produce a mixed gender, mixed sexuality, mixed race group of characters with at least one intelligent dominant alpha female and a slightly insecure yet sensitive metrosexual male.

The modern gender stereotypes are not real; they are the manifestation of liberal dreamers.

The world is a sexist, racist place where discrimination, machismo and feminism are as common place as people themselves. Sorry, but it is as true as human nature and your so called ‘ancient gender stereotypes’ walk amongst us, they work amongst us.

Write according to way it actually is, or the way you wish it to be, the choice is yours but don’t vilify those who write about reality.

Take a trip to the middle-east.