TheNextBigWriter Premium → Endurance Points
A common gripe I hear and I've said a few times myself is the lack of reviewer endurance.
As the chapters go past the double digits, reviews fall off dramatically.
Reciprocal review groups seems to close and open like the latest downtown restaurants.
A solution I propose is to add a loyalty bonus for each chapter reviewed in a story. Somewhere between 5-10% of the total chapter points should do the trick.
Oh what a totally great idea. I know sometimes I'm slow getting back to work that I really enjoy, mostly because I have so much going on right now. But reviews drop off for me as well. Loyalty points would be grand, and it doesn't have to be much. I'd say it wouldn't even have to start until the reviewer returns for the third time.
Write On!
What I would love is the ability to give some of my points to reviewers that I most want to hang on to. I don't mind if some of my readers drop off. Usually the ones that drop off have become disinterested in my story and aren't really providing great reviews anymore. I have, however, received tremendous feedback from a couple of my regular reviewers, but can't reciprocate equally because their writing is so much better than mine.
I love Matthew's idea! I'm like Mrs. P! I have way too many irons in the fire.
Endurance point, no, real money!
I'm with you, Max. lol
I thought the point value increases as the chapter numbers get higher. Was that just my wishful thinking? If it does, that is a loyalty bonus. And if it's so, it needs to be publicized.
What I would love is the ability to give some of my points to reviewers that I most want to hang on to. I don't mind if some of my readers drop off. Usually the ones that drop off have become disinterested in my story and aren't really providing great reviews anymore. I have, however, received tremendous feedback from a couple of my regular reviewers, but can't reciprocate equally because their writing is so much better than mine.
This leads me to another suggestion for points. Adding stars to rate reviewers to receive bonuses for a particular work.
This is a great idea! My reviews seem to taper off also. But pegging them to a chapter number probably isn't the best way to go. I'd just add up the number of chapters in a given novel and go from there. We have control over the chapter number so someone could start at, say, 30 and climb from there. Not that anyone here would do that - this is just an illustration. I have a book, an autobiography, actually, that is over 100 chapters. I don't dare start it here because I know nobody could stay with that amount (and I don't blame them).
~Tom
I don't even have a book to post and I love this idea.
I don't even have a book to post and I love this idea.
LOL.
I really like the idea of increasing points as the number of chapters reviewed grows higher. At least that gives us some way to reward long-term reviewers.
I'm not sure about rating reviews. That used to be the case on the old site and most people are too polite to give any less than five stars to avoid insulting/losing reviewers.
Not the first time and pretty sure it won't be the last, but I'm going against the grain here. I just don't see adding extra points for the later chapters making any significant difference. If someone is reviewing the story merely for points, probably not the best confidence builder. Extra points for later chapters would make no difference to me; if I'm going to review it, then I'll review it regardless.
I treat reciprocal expectation the same way; if I enjoy the work it will make no difference if the author reciprocates or not. I've reviewed several with little or no reciprocation and I've been reviewed by several with little reciprocation - I'm talking entire novels here, not just a few chapters or a short story.
If I were going to pay beyond the predetermined point value, I'd simply hire a professional editor after sampling some of their work to make sure it is what I would expect for the outlay. That is not to say some on this site would not do just as good a job, but very few would if we look at it realistically. And if someone meets your criteria on site you could at least suggest a private arrangement for payment in whatever currency was mutually satisfactory - if points were all they wanted, you could simply let them do drive-by reviews ( to include copy and paste) of everything you write without even reading and stock up the credits until the payment is fulfilled. Just paying someone points from a built up stash is not going to entice very many great reviewers imo. Most of the great reviewers have (or will shortly) accumulated more points than they will probably ever need. And as said, cash could be worked out privately with anyone willing and acceptable.
From a logical standpoint, what would be the difference in actual reviews received if more points were added for later chapters. That would not mean they are going to magically read all your chapters any more than they already are; after all, everybody else is getting those extra points for their chapters too and any mass change in reading patterns is highly unlikely. Everything would still be relatively the same. I don't see any advantage in the suggested changes, but that is just my opinion. Take care. Vern
The way I deal with great reviewers currently is to try to read more of their work than they read mine. The only downside to that is I usually finish their book before they do mine, so I may lose them later in my story, unless they've got another book online that I also want to read.
Even if we just have the option to give them points from our own balance would already be a step in the right direction. Although the skeptic in me think it wouldn't make a difference.
Not the first time and pretty sure it won't be the last, but I'm going against the grain here. I just don't see adding extra points for the later chapters making any significant difference. If someone is reviewing the story merely for points, probably not the best confidence builder. Extra points for later chapters would make no difference to me; if I'm going to review it, then I'll review it regardless.
I treat reciprocal expectation the same way; if I enjoy the work it will make no difference if the author reciprocates or not. I've reviewed several with little or no reciprocation and I've been reviewed by several with little reciprocation - I'm talking entire novels here, not just a few chapters or a short story.
If I were going to pay beyond the predetermined point value, I'd simply hire a professional editor after sampling some of their work to make sure it is what I would expect for the outlay. That is not to say some on this site would not do just as good a job, but very few would if we look at it realistically. And if someone meets your criteria on site you could at least suggest a private arrangement for payment in whatever currency was mutually satisfactory - if points were all they wanted, you could simply let them do drive-by reviews ( to include copy and paste) of everything you write without even reading and stock up the credits until the payment is fulfilled. Just paying someone points from a built up stash is not going to entice very many great reviewers imo. Most of the great reviewers have (or will shortly) accumulated more points than they will probably ever need. And as said, cash could be worked out privately with anyone willing and acceptable.
From a logical standpoint, what would be the difference in actual reviews received if more points were added for later chapters. That would not mean they are going to magically read all your chapters any more than they already are; after all, everybody else is getting those extra points for their chapters too and any mass change in reading patterns is highly unlikely. Everything would still be relatively the same. I don't see any advantage in the suggested changes, but that is just my opinion. Take care. Vern
Yes, it's true--we did have a star-rating system for reviewers, and it wound up being a courtesy to give everybody five stars (the maximum). The gesture had no more meaning than the "how are you?" we use as a conditioned greeting. The system was being phased out when I joined the site, but I do recall being thrilled with all the encouraging reviews of my first chapters, and really bummed when they dwindled down to one or two per chapter. It's the nature of the system we have and the human beings that we are to begin with enthusiasm and gradually lose that as other things in our lives distract us.
I can't think of any reward/ incentive system that will stop our being human.
This is a worthy subject to brainstorm on the forums. For those who have been on the site longer, you've probably seen this mentioned as a problem more than once. But for those of us more recently joined, it's a significant problem we are seeing for the first time.
I find as I reciprocal review past chapter 15, other reviewers are peeling off wanting to try out different rides with their ride passports. Is the current situation of using points working to continue reviewers on the same novel? No, it's not.
I also believe, while extra points is a good idea to toss out for discussion, they won't entice reviewers to become steady long-term reviewers. But a category to show and rate reviewers on the site I do feel would be useful. It can provide the reviewer with some motivation to see their efforts are being noticed, and show a struggling reviewer they need to improve what they offer. Such a ranking system will loop back to the problem being discussed. Many will want to have the higher ranked reviewers come review their work, and then we are back to the problem of what to offer in return.
Maybe asking reviewers what they would want in return for reviewing a work from the beginning chapter to the end over time is in order?
So what would you want within the scope of reason that can be offered?
I've learned to stick to books I want to read, or where I want to keep the reviewer. Usually both. As a result, I'm down to about half a dozen readers. That also makes it easier to keep up with reciprocating while also writing.
I do think, though, that being able to give reviewers an occasional boost of points in return for great reviews would be terrific, as well as incremental points provided by the system for later reviews.
I've learned to stick to books I want to read, or where I want to keep the reviewer. Usually both. As a result, I'm down to about half a dozen readers. That also makes it easier to keep up with reciprocating while also writing.
I do think, though, that being able to give reviewers an occasional boost of points in return for great reviews would be terrific, as well as incremental points provided by the system for later reviews.
IMO, that is the only way to do it at the moment. It's not easy, because sometimes you review someone's whole book only to realise that they are not intending to do the same or can't return the favour (be it for whatever reason, life does happen and then it is just too overwhelming/too much to catch up again). But there are many writers on TNBW who does stick with you. It's just a matter of putting in the hard work to find and keep them!
I do my best to make my stories easy to read, because ultimately, the readers will be paying for the books I write, and if they can't make it through my book, they won't buy again.
Have a heart--help out the reviewers.
1) use correct spelling--don't rely on spell check; the dang machine spells okay, but it spells whatever damn word it chooses.
2) check what the word you're using really means--you might have been given a word that sounds like the one you really wanted
3) if you don't have a degree in writing, study--there are tons of things you don't know about your own language
4) ask for specific feedback on your writing--we don't know if you want to hear "that's lovely, dear" or "you're head-hopping again."
Do these things, and reviewers might come back to read more of your stories.
Yes, we've been here, and done this. The former TNBW site was a fabulous site, but not without pitfalls. One of those was reviewing reviewers with a five-star system. It generated some mean and nasty posts in their corresponding forums. Another was listing the "Top 10 Reviewers" on the home page. That, too, generated some hard feelings from those who felt they were being punished for not reviewing enough. The forums became a battle ground over these issues.
As for reviewers dropping off, I'd like to explain the phenomenon with a quote from Homer of The Simpsons, "Oooo, shiny." Or, perhaps from the movie Up, with, "Squirrel!"
What I'm saying is that people get distracted. There are new stories posted everyday on this site, and it's hard to keep up with them, and still offer continuing efforts on current works, and still get any writing done for yourself.
How about we dedicate ourselves to continuing the works we've begun? Each of us can be called to account for a few infractions of dropping out of someone's work, without word or reason. I'd be at the top of that list. (Sorry, Seabrass, jp, janet reid, et al.) But giving people extra credit for sticking around is not feasible. The points have to come from somewhere, and while some of us do have hundreds of points to offer reviewers, others barely gather enough to post their next chapter. Let's give each other a break, and continue our own work, and be grateful for the few that do hang around, rather than complain that we're not as popular as we once were.
Also, I heartily agree with jp's four steps. (See previous post.)
Even if we just have the option to give them points from our own balance would already be a step in the right direction. Although the skeptic in me think it wouldn't make a difference.
Allow me to address your inner skeptic...
Let's say I have 1000+ points in my account. I can afford to pay reviewers. But, poor John Doe, who just joined the site, doesn't have two points to rub together. He couldn't pay for reviewers, so he's screwed out of those reviewers who won't get extra bonus points for reading his stuff. They will come to me, instead.
Your inner skeptic is wise. 
I suppose one other thing you can do (which I did) is if you found certain reviewers MOST helpful, message them and ask them to continue reviewing your later chapters.
I suppose one other thing you can do (which I did) is if you found certain reviewers MOST helpful, message them and ask them to continue reviewing your later chapters.
You mean, reach out and communicate your needs to specific people?
Hmmm... That's so crazy it just might work. 
janet reid wrote:Even if we just have the option to give them points from our own balance would already be a step in the right direction. Although the skeptic in me think it wouldn't make a difference.
Allow me to address your inner skeptic...
Let's say I have 1000+ points in my account. I can afford to pay reviewers. But, poor John Doe, who just joined the site, doesn't have two points to rub together. He couldn't pay for reviewers, so he's screwed out of those reviewers who won't get extra bonus points for reading his stuff. They will come to me, instead.
Your inner skeptic is wise.
But then again, Poor John Doe, newest TNBW member, doesn't have more than 1-5 chapters posted ... Admittedly, they also have problems with not getting any reviews - the bonus points to review their work has been brought in for that exact purpose recently. It would be interesting if Sol could let us know (after enough time has elapsed) whether the extra bonus points did make a difference. If so, giving bonus points for reviewing complete works might also work. And if poor John Doe reads through my whole novel (which if I follow jp's advice will be a breeze 
), he will find himself with more points too and he/she can also start to do this thing.
On a completely different trend ... What overwhelms me and prevent me to read complete works is when writers have more than one novel going. I can always ask which novel they want to have reviewed first, but then something else pops up that I can review instead (or I have a message to reply to and I forget what I was doing in my inbox in the first place) and I never do and when I remember to look at that work again, it's so far gone I'll never be able to catch up again. Which brings me to another point, some writers simply publish new chapters at a rate that is impossible to keep up with. Which brings me to another point, I have so many recips to do, that I simply can't review complete works anymore, especially those that publish new chapters at an unbelievable rate.
And then life steps in and you move to a new country on the other side of the world, and you have so many recips to do, you're drowning and it is impossible to catch up and read complete novels (and you're also here to write ...). And I have had the time to do 3-4 reviews a day most days in my previous uncomplicated life and had been in a fortunate position to review complete novels (because I'm like that, I finish things I start - it's a strength and a weakness), and now I have so many points I can dish out to reviewers I know would be able to use it much better than I can because I write so damn slowly and only need a fraction of them to post my own work, giving me more points to stick with novels will not make one bit of a difference (I don't need more points and I simply don't have the time).
So in short, what I'm trying to say is, it's not that simple. And more points doesn't address the problem - only part of it.
Personally, if I can transfer points to others to thank them for whatever, it would make my day.
And, that is also why I so understand why reviewers do not stick with me, so no need to apologise!
You post an interesting thought or two, Janet. When I log in to the site first thing in the morning, and I find that I have 10, 12, or even 23 new postings, my inner-self begins to shout 'no. no way'. I simply don't have the time to read, and more importantly, give a good review, to that many posts. So, I do as many as I can and hope that the next day doesn't bring any more. Complicating this is that my eyesight is nowhere as good as it should be. I wear trifocals and peering at a screen for more than an hour (even with the magnification and de-colorization of the chapter -- thank you, Sol) gives me a headache.
You mentioned donating points. That might be an inducement to old-timers on the site, but a new writer doesn't have that option. I can see where the rating star system would not be a very good idea - and I wasn't a member of the old site. I used to be a member of a forum where stars were given for providing a solution to a problem. This didn't go well at all.
Maybe there just isn't a solution. In my case, I favor just PM-ing a steady reviewer and telling them how much you appreciate their continued support. It can be part of the 'finishing blurb' on a review, but personal contact is my way to go.
Somewhere out there is a solution. We just have to find it.
~Tom
TheNextBigWriter Premium → Endurance Points
