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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Why not just have H. sterile, reasons unknown?

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

njc wrote:

Why not just have H. sterile, reasons unknown?

Because it would make for a very short novel. If H is the one with the problem, nothing stands in Matthew and Catherine's way to get married. They'd meet, fall in love and marry. It also makes C one-dimensional. Her struggle is around loving children and thinking she can't have children. Then also falling for M and thinking she can't marry him (he needs a male heir).

And having H fertile and then magically sterile when he marries C is possible due to age, but I'm not sure readers will accept that so easily. Or would they? I like easy ...

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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

But how does anyone in the story know  that H is the problem?  The assumption can always be that it's C's problem, assumption unchallenged until experience proves otherwise.

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

KHippolite wrote:

If H is the one with the problem, nothing stands in Matthew and Catherine's way to get married. They'd meet, fall in love and marry

You make it sound like there's only this one speed bump for the length of the story.

Or are more obstacles on the way?

The bad guy/guys are still around K wink

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

njc wrote:

But how does anyone in the story know  that H is the problem?  The assumption can always be that it's C's problem, assumption unchallenged until experience proves otherwise.

But I still have to make it plausible unless I kill H's children from his previous marriages ... i.e. when C falls pregnant, readers shouldn't go how the hell and how convenient for the author, they should be going oh yes, all these kluuz and I totally missed it but it makes some sense. ?

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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

You're assuming that H's kids are his.  With a winner like that, would it surprise anyone if she had a hobby as well as a hubby?

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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

How old was H during the conception of his youngest child? How many years between that and his marriage to C?

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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

ED is about not getting it up.

Parasympathetic pathways, 'P' ut it up
Sympathetic pathways, 'S' hoot it out.

DIfferent nerve endings are affected. ED can have so many different reasons. Something as simple as a monster prostate gland (which naturally gets bigger as a male ages) can interfere with fertility. It isn't just about the sperm. It can be about the plumbing, the nerves being affected by cancer or chronic disease (like diabetes), the function of the sperm, or the amount of sperm, the shape of the sperm and whether they are good swimmers, etc.

I think that the natural inclination of that time period was to blame the woman. Look at Henry the Eighth. He was the issue. Likely from either syphilis or being Kell (+) in his blood, he fathered only four children despite having multiple wives and mistresses. Yet it was Anne Boleyn who paid the price for not bearing a male heir. (Catherine Howard didn't count. I believe she got caught with her skirts up and went to the chopping block for fooling around with someone other than a king.)

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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Are you going to make me look up 'Kell(+)'?

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

amy s wrote:

How old was H during the conception of his youngest child? How many years between that and his marriage to C?

He married C when he was 42-ish and his youngest child was 8 at the time (I can still play with these numbers).
He also started drinking heavily after his last wife died.

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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

njc wrote:

You're assuming that H's kids are his.  With a winner like that, would it surprise anyone if she had a hobby as well as a hubby?

One more piece of mystery ...

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

amy s wrote:

ED is about not getting it up.

Parasympathetic pathways, 'P' ut it up
Sympathetic pathways, 'S' hoot it out.

DIfferent nerve endings are affected. ED can have so many different reasons. Something as simple as a monster prostate gland (which naturally gets bigger as a male ages) can interfere with fertility. It isn't just about the sperm. It can be about the plumbing, the nerves being affected by cancer or chronic disease (like diabetes), the function of the sperm, or the amount of sperm, the shape of the sperm and whether they are good swimmers, etc.

I think that the natural inclination of that time period was to blame the woman. Look at Henry the Eighth. He was the issue. Likely from either syphilis or being Kell (+) in his blood, he fathered only four children despite having multiple wives and mistresses. Yet it was Anne Boleyn who paid the price for not bearing a male heir. (Catherine Howard didn't count. I believe she got caught with her skirts up and went to the chopping block for fooling around with someone other than a king.)

My research says:

Erectile dysfunction, or ED, is the inability to achieve or sustain an erection suitable for sexual intercourse. Causes include medications, chronic illnesses, poor blood flow to the penis, drinking too much alcohol, or being too tired. (WebMD/Wiki)

Inability, in my book, means nothing, as in, 100% nothing. And sustain, in my book, means something for a little bit/few minutes and then *pfffffffftttttt* (sound of a balloon deflating, in case you're wondering). So that's why I have it he could do something for a little bit at times and stopped abruptly, and other times couldn't do anything. So, if I understand you correctly, it's one or the other, not both? Then I definitely have to fix that.

Or what would you propose H has so that he had children by other wives, but not Catherine making everyone thinks Catherine has a problem. At this rate, I'll make her a bloody virgin, previous relationships/marriages just messes around. grrrr

And I owe you dinner with that bottle of wine! You're really invaluable because you also solve problems, you don't just create them. wink [just kidding njc/K!]

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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

See, my solution fis the story logic, it just means you have more to write about.  Having H's family come into the story is embarassing complication for C, but it would provide the opportunity for a remark or two that can -later- be interpreted to indicate the hobby/hubby situation.

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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

OK, graphic alert. Anybody who doesn't want to read the dirty details can skip this.

Sustain is the key word.  He could probably wake up with an erection, but can't sustain it long enough to ejaculate. Therefore, his attentions with C were rushed. He had to penetrate with little notice. She wasn't prepped or properly…lubricated. Therefore, sex was painful. Especially since she wasn't experienced.

Then he stops, knowing that the deed isn't done. However, he blames her for his inability to finish. Or (even worse) pretends that he is done to avoid embarrassment. At that point, she has been penetrated and thinks that there is a chance for a baby. I would guess that he wouldn't have the heart to tell her otherwise. Initially, C would be happy that she pleased him.

After multiple failures, she starts noticing that he isn't interested in her. Based on the lack of erections. I would imagine that a virile man with multiple children would be humiliated by this lack and C's presence would be a constant reminder of his deficiency.

NJC, sorry about the Kell (+) antigen. Here is a link. It explains it better than I can.

http://www.history.com/news/did-blood-c … ctive-woes

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

amy s wrote:

OK, graphic alert. Anybody who doesn't want to read the dirty details can skip this.

Sustain is the key word.  He could probably wake up with an erection, but can't sustain it long enough to ejaculate. Therefore, his attentions with C were rushed. He had to penetrate with little notice. She wasn't prepped or properly…lubricated. Therefore, sex was painful. Especially since she wasn't experienced.

Then he stops, knowing that the deed isn't done. However, he blames her for his inability to finish. Or (even worse) pretends that he is done to avoid embarrassment. At that point, she has been penetrated and thinks that there is a chance for a baby. I would guess that he wouldn't have the heart to tell her otherwise. Initially, C would be happy that she pleased him.

After multiple failures, she starts noticing that he isn't interested in her. Based on the lack of erections. I would imagine that a virile man with multiple children would be humiliated by this lack and C's presence would be a constant reminder of his deficiency.

NJC, sorry about the Kell (+) antigen. Here is a link. It explains it better than I can.

http://www.history.com/news/did-blood-c … ctive-woes

This is word for word what I was trying to go for. I think I have done it, but K (and now njc) *which is good BTW, because I need to know one way or the other* made me unsure I conveyed it clear enough.

The difficulty is that from C's perspective, it would sound like rape because like you said, she wasn't ready and H knew he had better get going before *sound of a balloon deflating*

What I will change next time around is just make it really uncomfortable for C rather than painful (less rapey) although I still think the first time would have hurted for sure without some dedicated foreplay. And really make it clear H was quick about it and sometimes nothing really happened.

I've also played on the regularity of H's visits when M was ready to go for round 2 and C thought he'd need a week or two or three. I've received a good suggestion and M can ponder about the strangeness of it all to just confirm the underlying message to readers that H had a problem, not C.

The other reason I just don't simply want to make this go away and have C magically get pregnant, is the difference between M and H is what changed her mind to get naked with a guy again. Without H being inconsiderate, I have to think of something else why she would sleep with M after 10 years of not sleeping with anyone else (given her impulsiveness, it'd be a hard sell). Dedication to the children will only go so far me thinks.

Should be possible? K, if you're reading this, I owe you (I think this subject is only second to talking about how it feels being kicked in the nuts for guys or maybe not), and would making it just uncomfortable instead of painful and then have someone state it make a difference in your mind? Enough that the boar can detesticate someone else?

Thanks for this team Medieval fantasy! *group hug but not too close, this is way too personal already LOL*

At this rate, njc might insist I get kicked out of this group LOL I keep on interfering with romancy stuff!

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Great link Amy.

My SIL miscarried her second baby, but it had something to do with her blood group/type and her GP didn't give her the anti-viral shot that would've prevented this from happening after she had her first child. She had 2 healthy babies after that.

Another close friend had the same problem, and she was having twins - I think this is why it was picked up because she had been expecting twins. In any case, she had to have blood tranfusions every other week. She had one delivered and from memory, they kept the smaller of the two in the womb for another week (with tranfusions still ongoing) and a half before she was delivered too.

When I had my first, my GP checked and double checked my blood type. When I asked why it's important to know, she said it was to make sure whether I needed that shot or not. I didn't.

To me, this seems related somehow.

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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

It is. The shot is called Rhogam in the US. It is an autoimmune thing. You know how your blood type is called something like A or B positive or negative?  The + or - antigen is something that causes transfusion reactions (which is why you have to know your 'blood type'.  So an A+ carrier can get a transfusion of A- blood without a big deal, (because they carry the antigen and the (-) blood doesn't.  The reverse is not true. A(-) bloodtypes have to get negative blood.

This is why O negative blood is the universal donor. There are no A, B, or (+) antibodies in it.

Soooooo. If a negative mother has a child by a Rh(+) male, she can successfully carry the first pregnancy. Then the baby/mother's blood gets mixed during birth. Then the Rh (-) mother gets antibodies to the foreign blood and recognizes any further Rh (+) pregnancies as foreign. This makes the mother miscarry the baby.

http://www.rhogam.com/FAQs

SIL= sister in law? Otherwise, you are writing something about my character that I don't know about :-)

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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

janet reid wrote:

Without H being inconsiderate, I have to think of something else why she would sleep with M after 10 years of not sleeping with anyone else

Ten years is a bit of a stretch.  Less than five seems improbable to the story; ditto more than eight.  And besides, she and M were childhood friends.  She was what, five years younger?  That will make M rather old to be unmarried, no?  And to undertake his various physical adventures?  (I mean with the steel, not in bed!)

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

njc wrote:
janet reid wrote:

Without H being inconsiderate, I have to think of something else why she would sleep with M after 10 years of not sleeping with anyone else

Ten years is a bit of a stretch.  Less than five seems improbable to the story; ditto more than eight.  And besides, she and M were childhood friends.  She was what, five years younger?  That will make M rather old to be unmarried, no?  And to undertake his various physical adventures?  (I mean with the steel, not in bed!)

You're spot on - more like seven actually. Here's the detailed numbers I'm using for now:

C was 17 when she married H (that was ten years ago from the day of the raid). So C is now 27, H died 7 years earlier when she was 20. The age difference between M and C is 4 years, but that will likely change to make him younger than his current 31 (unless I can convince readers he wants to avoid marriage badly).

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

amy s wrote:

It is. The shot is called Rhogam in the US. It is an autoimmune thing. You know how your blood type is called something like A or B positive or negative?  The + or - antigen is something that causes transfusion reactions (which is why you have to know your 'blood type'.  So an A+ carrier can get a transfusion of A- blood without a big deal, (because they carry the antigen and the (-) blood doesn't.  The reverse is not true. A(-) bloodtypes have to get negative blood.

This is why O negative blood is the universal donor. There are no A, B, or (+) antibodies in it.

Soooooo. If a negative mother has a child by a Rh(+) male, she can successfully carry the first pregnancy. Then the baby/mother's blood gets mixed during birth. Then the Rh (-) mother gets antibodies to the foreign blood and recognizes any further Rh (+) pregnancies as foreign. This makes the mother miscarry the baby.

http://www.rhogam.com/FAQs

SIL= sister in law? Otherwise, you are writing something about my character that I don't know about :-)

Sister in law! smile And yes, this was it, Rhogam sounds familiar. But I'm talking like more than 10 years ago when everyone around my age was having babies.

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Medieval peeps, I need help please!

Moving on from medical issues and shafts *snickers* ....

I can't find anything special that would've been done to personalise the arrows of someone like the king or the nobility to use as inspiration or a starting point. So is there any special feathers that could be used, or how can the nock be changed or what can be done in terms of cresting to make (1) the arrows unique/special and (2) really hard to duplicate if you don't know what to look for.

The best I can come up with, is using really expensive materials for the arrows (imported wood?), and expensive paint/dye and an intricate pattern for the cresting that would make it extremely hard and time-consuming to copy. Special feathers? Special dyed feathers? Special shaped fletching? Please help!

I'm also stuck with coming up with a banner for Matthew - lions, dragons and roses are so not on. C'mon, 'tis the Earl of Norwood! Do you guys and girls have any suggestions?

For all your trouble, I'll send some virtual wine or cookies your way.

Thanks! Janet

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Arrows! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Arrow shafts were made from light,weight, pourise woods like ash, beech, or hazel. All grew everywhere on the British Isles.

Arrow heads were iron and (in the 1500s/1600s) mostly bodkin shaped for war, so they would puncture most armor. (Knights and princes tended to wear plate armor that protected them from bodkins though, so if your aim is to kill an earl, you'll have to be a really good shot to hit him in a less protected area.)

Arrow fletching was made of any bird feather but by this time it might have mostly been goose. Geese were farmed and so there was a ready access of a lot of feathers.

Because of of a lot of standardization with war stuff because of all the wars with France and the War of the Roses, a lot of the individualism was lot. However, hunting arrows were still made region by region and often by the archerer himself, so those could still be individual and thus identifiable. Mostly it would be in choosing a particular bird feather (not goose) for the fletching or have the archer paint his arrow shafts a color. The rich certainly had time/money to have unique arrows even for war. But it would be in the choice of bird feather for the fletching and perhaps painting the shafts.

It is possible that they dyed the feathers too (they certainly dyed feathers for their helmets and other stuff) but I have never read anything that would suggest they did that.

Hope this helps!

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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Re feathers:

Janet, I have GOT to get you to an SCA event. What are you doing in August? Would you be open to a week at the Pennsic war?

You NEED to go shopping with me. You won't have these questions any longer.

Hand crafted arrows are absolutely identifiable by the maker. Enough that your assassin would have bought them from elsewhere rather than being traced back to him. (A bow is a woman's weapon, so I saw that with reservations) fletching, three or four fletching on arrows, the precision of the craftsmanship, how well the goose feathers were glued, etc. Remember that arrows are usually shot into targets and damaging the fletch? Or were they used new? (Unlikely)

Since arrows are used on practice targets, you want to identify your arrows from another so you can collect them after a practice shoot. And find them in the scruff if you miss at distance. (White feathers are much easier to see)

So I would have the person paint the arrows after purchase. Something personal that means something to only them. Key is, arrows are sold in bundles. You lose them during practice all the time. This person is missing one. And there are others out there WITH THE SAME MARK PATTERN. Find those arrows and you find the assassin.

Personally, I would go to where people practice archery and search the grass. You can shoot at a hay bale, but you will lose your arrows all the time. Bundled targets are where this person practices because he/she is good.

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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Re feathers:

Janet, I have GOT to get you to an SCA event. What are you doing in August? Would you be open to a week at the Pennsic war?

You NEED to go shopping with me. You won't have these questions any longer.

Hand crafted arrows are absolutely identifiable by the maker. Enough that your assassin would have bought them from elsewhere rather than being traced back to him. (A bow is a woman's weapon, so I saw that with reservations) fletching, three or four fletching on arrows, the precision of the craftsmanship, how well the goose feathers were glued, etc. Remember that arrows are usually shot into targets and damaging the fletch? Or were they used new? (Unlikely)

Since arrows are used on practice targets, you want to identify your arrows from another so you can collect them after a practice shoot. And find them in the scruff if you miss at distance. (White feathers are much easier to see)

So I would have the person paint the arrows after purchase. Something personal that means something to only them. Key is, arrows are sold in bundles. You lose them during practice all the time. This person is missing one. And there are others out there WITH THE SAME MARK PATTERN. Find those arrows and you find the assassin.

Personally, I would go to where people practice archery and search the grass. You can shoot at a hay bale, but you will lose your arrows all the time. Bundled targets are where this person practices because he/she is good.

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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Re feathers:

Janet, I have GOT to get you to an SCA event. What are you doing in August? Would you be open to a week at the Pennsic war?

You NEED to go shopping with me. You won't have these questions any longer.

Hand crafted arrows are absolutely identifiable by the maker. Enough that your assassin would have bought them from elsewhere rather than being traced back to him. (A bow is a woman's weapon, so I saw that with reservations) fletching, three or four fletching on arrows, the precision of the craftsmanship, how well the goose feathers were glued, etc. Remember that arrows are usually shot into targets and damaging the fletch? Or were they used new? (Unlikely)

Since arrows are used on practice targets, you want to identify your arrows from another so you can collect them after a practice shoot. And find them in the scruff if you miss at distance. (White feathers are much easier to see)

So I would have the person paint the arrows after purchase. Something personal that means something to only them. Key is, arrows are sold in bundles. You lose them during practice all the time. This person is missing one. And there are others out there WITH THE SAME MARK PATTERN. Find those arrows and you find the assassin.

Personally, I would go to where people practice archery and search the grass. You can shoot at a hay bale, but you will lose your arrows all the time. Bundled targets are where this person practices because he/she is good.