151 Reply by Dirk B. (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-16 02:47:25)

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Quantum tunneling through the shield is perfect. Thanks for that.

Data_Babble=ON

Now what would cause the blast from the shield defier (the superweapon) to tunnel en masse through a defensive shield, rather than simply slamming into the shield like ordinary weapons fire would? For story purposes, the defier itself requires a huge quantity of energy to fire (e.g., perhaps 100 times as much as a heavy supernova cannon). That quantity of energy makes it dangerous for the firing ship to shoot since it takes every spare bit of energy a dreadnought dare redirect into the weapon, including most of the energy from the ship's neutrino reactor running at 15-20% beyond its safety limit.

However, hitting St. James's destroyers with that much tunneling energy passing unimpeded through their shields would most likely destroy the ships in one shot each. The other battles in the story require many supernova weapon strikes against a single location on the target to knock out that location's shield and breach the outer, gorillium-plated hull (say, 10 hits from a supernova). The superweapon I'm trying to replace (the mattergy cannons) can punch all the way through the hull of an unshielded ship and out the other side, but it requires 2-3 mattery shots to destroy a ship.

So, 10 supernova strikes to breach the the hull, maybe 15 strikes to punch through the inside of the fairly thin "blade-like" main hull, and at most 10 more to punch through the far side of the outer hull. So, for the mattergy cannons to do the same thing requires that weapon to fire the equivalent of 35 supernovas at one point on the hull, whereas the shield defier requires about 3 times that to fire. The question then is, what do I do with the rest of the energy that goes into firing the defier, where only 1/3 reaches the target (equivalent of 100 supernovas to fire the defier - 35 supernovas to punch completely through a ship's hull, which is the story requirement = 65 supernovas worth of energy that needs to go somewhere else.)

I could see the excess, focused energy causing the tunneling effect needed to pass through St. James's shields, but 65 supernovas worth? Seems like a lot, but I'll roll with it. After all, the defier is somehow causing the fabric of spacetime to change such that mass quantum tunneling of energy through energy occurs at that location. Convenient side effect of firing such a powerful weapon, huh? :-)

Data_Babble=OFF

So, does it pass the smell test? Or am I serving up garum sociorum, a Roman-era delicacy made from rotting fish?

Quote Post 151

152 Reply by Kdot

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

what would cause the blast from the shield defier (the superweapon) to tunnel en masse through a defensive shield

Hmm By everything we know today quantum tunnelling cannot be achieved en-masse. Here is where the handwavium must appear.

You throw trillions of ducks at a brick wall, eventually one duck will [quantum tunnel] through. (I adapted this quote from my old hs physics textbook)

The question is how do you get "Lots of ducks through" and that gets a bit harder.

Should you freeze the wall's subatomic structure and toss identical ducks at it (with the exact same trajectory), presumably the following ducks will also get through

Quote Post 152

153 Reply by njc

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Begin the handwavium here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_diode and here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonan … ling_diode .

Quote Post 153

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Kill me now.

I wanted to find a complete list of all forms of energy, but that seems to be an impossible challenge on the internet. Depending on your query, the search results list websites that answer that question seemingly based on the website author's whim (common answers included two (potential and kinetic), 6 or 7, 10, and 13 or 14). Wikipedia (bless their souls) lists 14, which is one of the most complete I could find, and the heading is just right for the table, which is described as "some forms of energy" (emphasis mine).

For laughs, I asked Copilot for a list, and it gave me an incomplete one. I had to tell it several times that the list was incomplete. It did eventually go off and look for more, returning with an apology and further entries to the list. I can't wait until more AI-driven web pages make a total mess out of all search engines. Imagine trying to do school homework in the near future with all that AI garbage coming up in the search results.

The most complete list I could get came from Copilot, which the AI clearly took from multiple sources describing different kinds of things and just threw them together. Total crap. The AI can't distinguish things that don't belong in the same list. Part of that, though, is there doesn't seem to be much standardization in terminology. Some sites call them types of energy, others use forms of energy, and one or two used classes of energy. The line breaks were added by me. I think the first seven belong together, as do the next two. The rest I'm not sure.

Kdot, when you posted earlier that all the types are known, were you referring to the first seven, the basic two, or something else?

Mechanical Energy
Thermal Energy
Nuclear Energy
Chemical Energy
Electromagnetic Energy
Sonic Energy
Gravitational Energy

Kinetic Energy
Potential Energy

Electrical Energy
Elastic Energy
Ionization Energy
Radiant Energy
Motion Energy
Magnetic Energy
Electrochemical Energy
Chemiluminescence
Internal Energy
Geothermal Energy
Hydropower

Quote Post 154

155 Reply by Dirk B. (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-17 09:15:39)

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

I tried coming up with a scene involving all the fired energy somehow quantum tunneling through the shield and quickly realized I don't know enough of the science to know if I'm writing crap or not. Can't have a dialogue (various questions and answers the reader might expect) without more knowledge.

My search today for forms of energy did give me an idea, though, which a lot of soft sci-fi folks ought to be able to understand. I can add an additional form of energy to the story (call it hokey energy for now), which is what the dreadnought fires through the superweapon, but it's very energy-intensive to convert energy output from the dreadnought's reactor into hokey form, which is why the superweapon drains the Hercules so severely of power.

Hokey energy can pass right through an EM energy barrier (shield) unhindered, but the shield causes hokey energy to transform into other forms of energy, 35% of which (an EM frequency?) continues on to strike/damage the ship behind the shield with an incredibly powerful punch, able to smash all the way through a destroyer's 10 or so decks. The remaining 65% would, ideally, transform into another form of energy (visible light?) that I can bleed off harmlessly into space. Assume the shields are projected about one foot out from the hull.

Anyone know if a massive release of visible light against the target hull from a one foot distance could ever cause any kind of damage to the hull, or is it just one big-ass flashlight?

Also, anyone care to suggest a part of the EM spectrum that I can hit the ship with using the remaining 35% of the converted energy. I couldn't find anything online about what part of the spectrum is fired by star destroyers.

Thanks

Quote Post 155

156 Reply by Kdot (edited by Kdot 2024-03-17 15:23:46)

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Kdot, when you posted earlier that all the types are known, were you referring to the first seven, the basic two, or something else?

Four states. I said:

Physics says we've discovered all possible states of matter. When we find some new state, we'll need to reinvent the entire discipline.

I didn't try to quantify energy. Not sure physics has fully defined it either.

For the states of matter we have four basic states (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_matter) and a few non-classical. Should we discover a new basic state, our understanding of the universe will have to change

Quote Post 156

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Ah. Thanks. I forgot you were talking about matter.

Quote Post 157

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Kdot wrote:

For the states of matter we have four basic states (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_matter) and a few non-classical. Should we discover a new basic state, our understanding of the universe will have to change

That's a long list of non-classical states, including glass, which is kind of cool.

Quote Post 158

159 Reply by Dirk B. (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-18 05:57:03)

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Anyone know if a massive release of visible light against the target hull from a one foot distance could ever cause any kind of damage to the hull, or is it just one big-ass flashlight? See my post from yesterday for more details.

Also, anyone care to suggest a part of the EM spectrum I can hit the ship with? I couldn't find anything online about what part of the spectrum is fired by star destroyers.

Thanks
Dirk

Quote Post 159

160 Reply by Kdot

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

I couldn't find anything online about what part of the spectrum is fired by star destroyers.

I went on a random google check and came back rather dizzy with how much work Star Wars has done to try to make its magic realish. And failed because every fact they try to apply breaks something else.

Also, anyone care to suggest a part of the EM spectrum

This one is actually easy. They should use the part of the spectrum the human eye can see. Because who wants a movie of star ships just sitting there and not appear to be doing anything, then one randomly blows up.

Quote Post 160

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Kdot wrote:

I couldn't find anything online about what part of the spectrum is fired by star destroyers.

I went on a random google check and came back rather dizzy with how much work Star Wars has done to try to make its magic realish. And failed because every fact they try to apply breaks something else.

Also, anyone care to suggest a part of the EM spectrum

This one is actually easy. They should use the part of the spectrum the human eye can see. Because who wants a movie of star ships just sitting there and not appear to be doing anything, then one randomly blows up.

Oops. That should've been obvious. Thanks.


What's your opinion as to whether a huge amount of light energy directed through a typical shield size (say 10 feet x 10 feet) against a target ship's hull might be destructive to that skip's hull, assuming no windows to blind the crew within.

Thanks
Dirk

Quote Post 161

162 Reply by Dirk B. (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-18 23:33:18)

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

I would assume nuclear includes both, but it's not my list.

The story requirements are given in my earlier post above, which started with "I tried coming up with..."

Quote Post 162

163 Reply by Dirk B. (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-20 05:23:42)

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Having had Kdot's comment that my reactor is really just a neutrino-to-energy converter percolating at the back of my mind for a while, I finally decided there really is no good way to justify calling it a reactor (it certainly has nothing to do with fission or fusion). My original reason for choosing that term is that it suggests power generation and dangerous all in one word, and a neutrino-to-energy reactor is self-explanatory.

But, converter would be a boring term for it. Ditto for transformer, although I could live with it since it too suggests "something to do with power generation." Two other names currently percolating in my head are "juicer" and "milker". And if I really want to go nuts, I could call it a cow (something to be milked).

Neutrino juicer could work if I simply state it's fleet slang for "squeezing" energy out of neutrinos, assuming it needs to be explained (perhaps just once). And juice is, of course, a known synonym for energy.

The other options are milker and cow. Neutrino milker is very similar to juicer, though milker doesn't imply energy. Cow would be great if it's an acronym for an official name (e.g., Converter of W...? or Converter of O... W...?). "Scotty, I need you to milk the COW as hard as you can!"

Juicer is an informal name for the converter, just like boiler is informal for reactor. FYI, the reason fleet personnel call it a boiler is that it can pretty much cook almost anything in the universe if ruptured. That explanation was intended to further suggest that this thing is very dangerous.

Thoughts?

Thanks.
Dirk

Quote Post 163

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Oops. Sorry guys. I might have messed up on my neutron cannon thesis, so I deleted the posts.

Quote Post 164

165 Reply by Dirk B. (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-26 00:46:44)

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Following is my last! writeup for a superweapon (needs a little cleanup). It's a bit long (1.5 pages) given that the Hercules is sitting right there charging the superweapon, but I no longer care. It includes a short message by St. James to her taskforce, which I think is worth the space. The unknown form of energy fired by the weapon dissipates much more quickly than EM energy, so only about 1/4 of the initial blast hits the ship.

“She’s charging her new cannons,” Aussie said, simultaneously displaying another close-up visual of the weapons on a secondary screen.
“Analyze!” St. James said.
“The readings are quite unusual. I detect enormous flows of electromagnetic energy from other areas of the ship to the new weapons, especially from her neutrino juicer, which is being driven to 17% beyond its safety limit, placing our vessels at risk if she implodes-explodes. She’s also diverting energy from the shields around her supernovas.”
St. James pursed her lips. “Is it possible they’ve found a way to exceed the maximum output of a supernova weapon?”
“Unlikely. Although much EM energy is flowing toward these new guns, the readings are not indicative of a massive buildup of an EM charge at that location. However, I do detect an unknown form of energy intensifying inside the cannons. It is virtually certain she is converting all that EM energy to the unknown form, which is what she fires.”
Captain Spirits asked, “How much energy have they routed to those weapons so far?”
“About XXX joules, the equivalent of seventy supernova weapon blasts and still charging.”
Spirits’s eyebrows shot skyward, and his mouth fell open. He glanced at St. James and silently mouthed, “Wow!”
She nodded and cursed.
Aussie added, “And her ship reserves hold YYY additional joules — roughly fifty more supernova blasts.”
St. James glared at a camera feeding images to Aussie. “Well, you’re just a barrel of good news, aren’t you?”
“I am virtually certain the cannons will not fire all that energy in one shot, Admiral, even if they can.   If she had to fully recharge for the equivalent of seventy supernova blasts after every shot, the weapons would be too slow for combat.”
“Still, we may be in over our heads, Admiral,” Spirits said. “Should we withdraw?”
She hesitated briefly, wishing she could do so. “No. Open a channel. All three destroyers. Shipwide.”
“Channel open.”
“Attention. This is Admiral St. James. The Imperium has created a new weapon of dangerous power, which could be used decimate our fleet and planetary infrastructure if more of them come online. If the Sovereign Stars are to counter this, we need to gather as much data from it as possible and get that into the hands of our military.” She paused for a moment, thinking about the lives of her crew. “It is my intention to ride out two to three shots from that weapon. I do not relish leading any of you to your deaths, but we do not fight here for just ourselves but for our way of life, our freedoms, and most of all, our families. Please remember that in the hours to come. St. James out.”
Spirits closed the channel.

Quote Post 165

166 Reply by Kdot

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Dirk B. wrote:

Two other names currently percolating in my head are "juicer" and "milker". And if I really want to go nuts, I could call it a cow

These names really stick out to me, in a Starship Troopers way.

And I'm thinking back to Frank Herbert. How does one get "The Spice Must Flow" to sound cool? There is honestly nothing cool about "Make my Mustard Run" or "Let the Ketchup Drip". Yet somehow "The Spice Must Flow" works.

I think that's what's hitting me: Mustard, juice, ketchup, milk. Perhaps it needs to be more generic.

(Brainstorm Mode Enabled!)

Ok a neutrino-energy converter works on clusters of neutrinos so the energy pools internally until there's enough to make a controlled release. So "Drippers" informally for the engine and "percolate" for the process. "Dammit man, an energy converter isn't a coffee machine, we don't have all day to watch it percolate"

(Brainstorm Mode Off!)

That makes me think of coffee too much. Must continue to fire neurons at the problem

Quote Post 166

167 Reply by Kdot

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

If you decide to keep milkers, consider dropping creamers

Quote Post 167

168 Reply by Dirk B. (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-26 08:57:51)

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Colonel Mustard did it to the juicer with a ketchup bottle.

>>"The Spice Must Flow"
The Connor trilogy uses "Great deeds await you." My version of "May the Force be with you."
I'm reasonably sure I have something like it in Archangel Syndrome to.

As of this evening, I'm leaning toward neutrino annihilator to replace reactor, although the name doesn't spell out that the output is energy, though it obviously is if you annihilate matter. I can always mention that it converts neutrinos to energy when I first introduce the term. And annihilator screams, "Danger, Will Robinson," which is even better than reactor, IMO. Sexier too.

Not sure if I still need an informal name for the annihilator (eg juicer, boiler) since I really like the new name as is. If I come up with something cute that suggests total annihilation, I'll consider it.

Quote Post 168

169 Reply by njc

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Heinlein and "shipstone"s

Quote Post 169

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

I think my atreidite is close to shipstones. It started out life as something simply intended to store energy inside a stardrive prior to a jump. I plan to change that so atreidite will be the energy store that serves to store a ship's reserve power, which can then be used for any purpose requiring augmented power (the stardrive, supernova weapons in active combat, augmented shields, etc.).

Quote Post 170

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

I need a short name for implode-explode (the official name), which is what my ships do when their annihilators (formerly reactors) are breached, usually by enemy fire. Humans would quickly find something shorter to call it by. I have yet to think of anything cool, although I vaguely recall I may have brought this up long ago. Things I'm considering or have already rejected:

i-explode
imp-explode (or imp/explode) - I think I used this in my last draft
splode - to splode, a verb; it sploded; this is obviously slightly ludicrous, which makes it a candidate; it has an existing definition (explosion), but that's easily modified

implode - everyone knows what that is, and an implosion of a ship caused by a breached annihilator is always followed by an explosion (a little bang)
explode - no good; although the use of this word could generally be understood to mean implode, followed by a little bang, there are other reasons/ways a ship might explode
little bang (or bang) - the ship little-banged; did the ship bang yet? - bang is nice and short, and is a good example of the kind of thing they'd use; it is rather weird though but then so is the story
boom - similar to bang

So far, bang and splode are my favorites. Splode has an existing definition (slang for explode), but that definition is easy to modify. The reason I like those two is because they are both slightly ludicrous and one syllable long.

Any others?

Thanks
Dirk

Quote Post 171

172 Reply by njc (edited by njc 2024-03-27 01:29:47)

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Ximplode?  Imexplode?  Some reference to (turning into) a shell as they pop?  Bubplode?

Quote Post 172

173 Reply by Dirk B. (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-27 02:04:38)

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

Thanks, njc.

"Erupts" is another one, referring to the annihilator. I suppose if the annihilator erupts, one could also say the ship erupted. By this I mean, erupts = implode/explode, although how the concept of an eruption is similar to implode/explode is beyond me.

litbang?
imexes? imxes? (the last one is good, better yet imXes)
imbang?

Quote Post 173

174 Reply by njc

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

I rather like inxplode.  But some self-important editor or, worse, some smaraifishul intelyjint ottokurruptor will change it everywhere to either 'explode' or 'exim bank'.

Quote Post 174

Re: The Archangel Syndrome

I went with imXes for now. Other forms include imXed and imXing. :-)
Thanks for your help.

Quote Post 175