TheNextBigWriter Premium → Point of order, Mr. Chairman
Pages 1
I got a review that totally HAMMERED my ass on passive voice (not complaining!! These are the sort of things I DESPERATELY want reviewers to point out.)
It brought a question to mind, so I thought I'd ask it here:
Is it okay to use passive voice in dialogue? People don't talk using perfect grammar. But is it okay to use it in dialogue even though it's a major NO-NO in writing in general?
Inquiring minds want to know and are too lazy to google it....
Bobbie
I think it depends on the character. A snooty grammarian or a very formal character might talk without passive voice, just to make them sound different, whereas a country hick probably wouldn't give a damn.
There are also some things that naturally fall into the passive voice: "I was born in 1966 ..." It also works well for certain types of statements: "I'd been told that people here were aloof. Sometimes I wondered if they could speak English." "I was taught to use a comma before or after direct address." And sometimes it signals weasel-wording, and sometimes the active subject is unkown or irrelevant: "The monument was erected after the great flood in '53." Passive voice has a place, but it usually lacks color and force, unless the topic provides it: "I've been arrested, twice, for letting my ice-cream cone drip on the police station steps."
It's best when you don't notice it.
I got a review that totally HAMMERED my ass on passive voice (not complaining!! These are the sort of things I DESPERATELY want reviewers to point out.)
It brought a question to mind, so I thought I'd ask it here:Is it okay to use passive voice in dialogue? People don't talk using perfect grammar. But is it okay to use it in dialogue even though it's a major NO-NO in writing in general?
Inquiring minds want to know and are too lazy to google it....
Bobbie
Before you start changing your "passive" constructions, be sure your critics know what they are talking about. And don't try to get guidance from Strunk & White.
No need to google for advice on passive, read this http://www.lel.ed.ac.uk/~gpullum/passive_loathing.pdf
An excerpt:
The claims about why you should avoid passives—the allegations about why they are bad—are
all bogus, and the interesting point (the discourse condition) is always missed. The advice is often
supplied by advice-givers who don’t respect their own counsel—though they are unaware of that
because they are commonly hopeless at distinguishing passives from actives. But the recipients of
the advice can’t identify passives either, so they are powerless to spot the blunders of their teachers.
Even if they managed to follow the advice rigorously (which they can hardly do if it is not clear
to them what a passive is), it would usually not improve their writing one whit. It would certainly
make them write less like great writers of the past—and more like a little child.
The standard teaching about shunning the passive should be abandoned entirely. But that does
not mean abandoning the teaching of grammar. College students should certainly be taught enough
grammar to permit them to recognize passives in what they write; and it might be reasonable to
teach the discourse condition on passives stated in (19) explicitly. Intelligent discussion of how
non-canonical clauses fit into discourses just might have beneficial effects on the work of novice
writers (note the interesting and perceptive account by Joseph Williams of how using passives can
assist in ensuring a coherent flow of subject choices throughout a paragraph: Williams 1990: 54–
55). There is at least some reason to hope so.
One thing is certain: such teaching could hardly have worse results than the policies in place
now, which have given us usage critics, writing tutors, and even style guide authors who have no
idea what they are warning against when they hand out the standard warnings against the perennially hated passive voice.
Memphis Trace
Bobbie: You can use any grammatical or stylistic howler in dialogue as long as it is consistent with the character. You can use bad language. You can even use the N-word. (Just make sure the other characters are shocked.) As to when to use passive voice in general? The American Psychological Association prefers it as it is more objective sounding. "The experiment was conducted according to protocols," "The universe was in a highly charged state 15 billion years ago." The MLA (Modern Language Association) frowns on it. As to narration in fiction? Editor's choice. If you're self-published remember passive voice is inelegant and leaves open the question of subject, but that being said, it has its uses.
I agree with Vern. You’ll probably never read another bestselling author who uses “was” words more than Lee Child. Calling attention to passive voice on this site is fine - there are lots of ways to change passive to active voice without seeming high-brow or inappropriate for the context. But folks speak in passive voice all the time. It’s the decision of the author whether to make the narration active or passive without bending over backwards to confirm to “rules.”
Hi Bobbie:
It would help to see the chapter / paragraphs that prompted the criticism. It’s hard to generalize, but too much passive voice can be a sign of something else wrong with the writing: a rambling style, lack of focus, over-reliance on dry exposition (“tell”) and info dumps, or purple prose. Using the active voice is often the better choice simply because it makes for crisper, more compelling prose, and this applies to dialogue too. If you’re looking for examples, this site’s very own Ann Everett wrote a terrific book on using active verbs and she’s the real deal when it comes to professional writing.
It’s obviously impossible to avoid using the passive voice altogether, but I think authors also run into problems when they string together long, passive chains. That makes for boring reading, and while it’s hard to put strict rules to it, you certainly know it when you start skimming.
If anything, dialogue needs to be even more purposeful and direct than the descriptive prose you may use for scene setting, character descriptions or world building. A character may use convoluted, rambling speech patterns or drone on with tedious exposition. You could argue “well, that’s supposed to be their personality.” But we’re still reading the dialogue and getting bored, so the end result is the same: we stop reading or skim. If one of your characters is a bore, then why give them precious time under the spotlight?
None of these comments pertain to your writing, of course! I’d have to read the chapter in question to see if I agree with the criticism. If you post a sample here or point me to the chapter, I’ll be happy to give you one novice writer’s opinion.
Gray
Passives have other uses, and one just bubbled up in my head: 'They were beset with problems' can set the topic, an introduction before presenting the bill of particulars. You could force it into the grammatical active: 'They had many problems', but the 'They' are passive victims either way, and the sentence has less force, perhaps due to the less vivid verb, perhaps due to the mismatch between grammar and meaning.
Passives have other uses, and one just bubbled up in my head: 'They were beset with problems' can set the topic, an introduction before presenting the bill of particulars. You could force it into the grammatical active: 'They had many problems', but the 'They' are passive victims either way, and the sentence has less force, perhaps due to the less vivid verb, perhaps due to the mismatch between grammar and meaning.
Problems beset them!
Boom! Done. Ha ha ha!
But the subject of the sentence is no longer the topic subject. Keeping the two aligned is one use of the passive.
Pages 1
TheNextBigWriter Premium → Point of order, Mr. Chairman
