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Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

Yeah, the Raven Food might bring the story too close to Lit-Fic.

Matthew's leadership skills build in part on the same skills that made him such a social bee.  (I see this from the outside, not being especially gifted myself.)

Peter's jealousy must have a starting point.  His own social deficiencies might be a start.  His correct perception of Matthew's irresponsibility could feed the Envy and blind Peter to the changes in Matthew.  You could even show us Peter's lack of social graces, and maybe even elicit a reaction from someone in a place where the alert trader might see a contrast with Matthew.

But that too might risk Lit-Fic.

127 (edited by njc 2016-07-04 06:23:41)

Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

In GG, the insanely loyal HeterodyneJaegermonsters were only added once the first book of the story was being written.  But they have sunk into the warp and weft, and strenghtened the story in many, many ways (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20160704).

Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

Hey Janet! To answer your question, you are welcome to review almost anything, though I'd be wary of the Noi/Dea chapters as they'll be undergoing some major changes. Chapter 1 is fairly new and recently edited. All of Maya & Vierra's chapters could use some input, except for Maya's last one. That particular chapter is going to be split so the last half comes later in the story. Details will be changed, but I'll probably still use both halves somewhere.

Now I gotta catch up to what you've written...

Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

I'm almost back to normal (talking about my routine - my mental state is another topic for another day!) smile

Latest chapter is done - should be up towards the end of the week and then I can catch up with everyone, everything and a few reviews over the weekend!

Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

njc, no probs, that's a good one and very detailed. So we're still good! big_smile I'll go through it in more detail tomorrow and reply. Appreciate it, that must have taken a long time!

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Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

Catherine is not a fighter. She pulls the dagger out unintentionally when she is trying to escape Peter's stroke.  That is when the spurting begins, and the BP drop starts.  Peter staggers and Matthew can grab his swinging leg.  Peter tries to throw his sword at Catherine but it goes off to the side, tumbling.

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Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

Oh, and if Catherine is overextended on the stab, the dagger will probably tear the wound wider as she falls back, off balance, trying to escape Peter's well-telegraphed attempt at a deathblow.  The faster blood loss may be what causes Peter to lose his balance, strike his sword arm while trying to regain it, and finally lose his sword--which might strike Catherine guard-first, terrifying her but leaving her with no injury.

I hate to suggest this, but if you can find a theater still running Star Trek Beyond, you may want to watch it a couple of times to pick up the sequencing of the multiple-good-guy battles, right up to the last rescue.

Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

Oh, please no Star Trek! But if I have to, well, who knows, maybe I can like it a little or just enough to get through it. I've outgrown that.

Matthew is a bit in a tight spot to do anything really - both his arms are pretty occupied, so Catherine is on her own. That said, my initial intent was that Peter's unbalance was more due to shock and surprise - Catherine wasn't supposed to have another dagger and she was definitely not supposed to actually use one to stab him either. But it sounds as if this doesn't work or didn't come through from Matthew's POV. If it's the latter, it's an easy fix - I just have to add dialogue to that extent. If ti's the former, it will be a harder fix - the stabbing isn't the real thing that kills Peter - it's surprise, losing his balance and then falling from height. The reason why I like this, is that neither Catherine nor Matthew actually kill Peter.

Like you said in the review - I'll use Adventure to make sure it's a good scene but always keeping in mind it's still intended for Romance readers. And I think they really wouldn't care too much about the details as long as Peter is dead and Catherine and Matthew are heroes so that M and C can just get together for their happy ever after. That said, the obligatorily separation before that can happen is coming soon.

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Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

OTOH, if Catherine does strike the deathblow, she'll have more to work over.

The reason I suggest Star Trek Beyond is because, even though they take it over the top and off the deep end, there's a lot of multiple-actor action stuff as the good guys rise.  And with two good guys and one bad, that's what you have.

I also suggest switching PoV and letting us know how Peter sees his situation.

If he's going to trip, it should be over some of the mill machinery or appurtenances--the same obstacles with which he has trapped Matthew--or else something that we've been told is there.

If you can work out the master plot and lay clues, you can choreograph the fight.  You can give us some hint that the mill is built on a hill, and part of the upper story reached out over the (missing) wheel.

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Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

I've thought about the combat and found a couple other thoughts I want to share.

1) C lunges up and hits with an overhand knock on Peter's head. First, is she ambidextrous? Because she would have thrown the knife with her dominant hand, leaving her off-hand for the rock.

2) Declare the prop. First of all, you said, 'knives' (multiple) in a description. Yet you only have C throw away a single weapon. We also need to know that C put the knife in her boot when she woke up at the beginning of the chapter.  You also need to have a scenario where C shows Peter her knife and he knows about it. (At a table or to cut thread while she works with the women.) Otherwise, I have to suspect that he has seen her dress.

3) For the fight...have C replicate a move that she saw while she watched the men fight during Andrew's training. Because she hasn't fought for this entire book, she hasn't worked out in secret...hasn't joined the men in the pell...I can see readers questioning her willingness to use violence.

4) Suggest that you have C use the cloak to trap Peter's sword without allowing him to slice her. That way, the cloak issue is answered and becomes part of the fight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloak_and_dagger

5) Rather than having C hit him in the head from a kneeling position (and risk being cut), I suggest that you just have her break Peter's kneecap. That will stop him from following and allow her to escape.

6) Motivation for Peter...His hatred of Matthew should be foremost on the mind. Instead of taunting C about how she interferes with his plans, consider having Peter know about the tryst. Face it, the house steward knows. Therefore, he might have mentioned this to Peter. That makes killing C all the more sweeter because Matthew will be hurt by killing his lover. (If Peter knows about the knife in the boot, why doesn't he know about the affair?)

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Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

C is not a trained fighter.  From her knees, lunging for the groin is a logical reaction.

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Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

However, Janet has C watch the men fight. I think this is a lovely tie-in where she plans what to do based on tactics that she learned that day.

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Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

In her state?  Even if she sets out to do that, I don't think she'll have time to orient.

Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

1) C lunges up and hits with an overhand knock on Peter's head. First, is she ambidextrous? Because she would have thrown the knife with her dominant hand, leaving her off-hand for the rock.

She is using her off-hand with the rock. Desperate times do not make choosers.

2) Declare the prop. First of all, you said, 'knives' (multiple) in a description. Yet you only have C throw away a single weapon. We also need to know that C put the knife in her boot when she woke up at the beginning of the chapter.  You also need to have a scenario where C shows Peter her knife and he knows about it. (At a table or to cut thread while she works with the women.) Otherwise, I have to suspect that he has seen her dress.

I have three, if not more, times mentioned that Catherine always have two daggers with her, one per boot. What I haven't shown is that others know this too. The question how Peter knows about her having A knife will be answered later.

3) For the fight...have C replicate a move that she saw while she watched the men fight during Andrew's training. Because she hasn't fought for this entire book, she hasn't worked out in secret...hasn't joined the men in the pell...I can see readers questioning her willingness to use violence.

I might have to clarify that her love/concern for Matthew override any sensitivities she has against using violence though. But I don't think she specifically needs to train for this moment ...

4) Suggest that you have C use the cloak to trap Peter's sword without allowing him to slice her. That way, the cloak issue is answered and becomes part of the fight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloak_and_dagger

Against Peter, a trained fighter/stronger man? She traps his sword, he punches her in the face. Game over?

5) Rather than having C hit him in the head from a kneeling position (and risk being cut), I suggest that you just have her break Peter's kneecap. That will stop him from following and allow her to escape.

A broken kneecap will not work for what I have in mind at the end ... I'd appreciate it if we could park this after you've gotten to the last posted chapter ...

6) Motivation for Peter...His hatred of Matthew should be foremost on the mind. Instead of taunting C about how she interferes with his plans, consider having Peter know about the tryst. Face it, the house steward knows. Therefore, he might have mentioned this to Peter. That makes killing C all the more sweeter because Matthew will be hurt by killing his lover. (If Peter knows about the knife in the boot, why doesn't he know about the affair?)

The servants and Walter's discretion is unquestionable, although there's a different way for Peter to know or at least suspect that much. He tried to kill Matthew once in Matthew's chamber when Matthew wasn't there ... And Matthew opened Catherine's chamber door to listen after he though he heard a noise ... Not being in Peter's POV means he has to talk about this. He's crazy enough though, so this is an option I have open, and will consider!

Thanks for this! Sorry about the absence, I was away for work and only came back late last night. Today so far was mostly a waste writing wise.

Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

njc wrote:

In her state?  Even if she sets out to do that, I don't think she'll have time to orient.

This. She's not a trained fighter, just desperate to warn and save M.

Groin ... she needs no rock for that ... That could work? But, would he recover in time before she gets away? Because I don't want her to get away. That will take away Matthew's time to shine ... And Romance.

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Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

He's not going to recover from a femoral artery opened with both entry and exit wounds.  He's liable to suffer a severe blood pressure drop and go faint.  And then loose consciousness, and then die.  (This is for her final attack on Peter.)

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Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

All I truly want is for C to do something with the cloak over her shoulders that is hiding the rock. Shrug it off, drop it to the floor. Don't care. I just want it out of the visual so that she can make an overhand slam against Peter's head.  Everything else is gravy.

Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

NJC:
"Again, we're on the precipice. Long sentences with long logic chains take us out of the moment. // Or are you trying to hew to the Romance character?"

I've recently seen something that will explain the Romance with a R and adventure with an a:

In Romance, while the hero is bleeding out, the heroine will be wondering "He's dying, but does he love me?!". It's all about the relationship in other words. The rest is just backdrop and obstacles.

That said, I'm trying to back down just a tiny bit on putting too much focus and making it ridiculous. Which it sometimes can be.

Amy, I got it! Will do, the cloak shall be mentioned! Thanks!!!

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Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

In the last review, you wondered if the reader would just assume there were random windmills laying around.

Oh myyyy.

Um, I'm not going to let that one slip by. I absolutely NEVER, even once...considered that a water wheel was part of the surroundings. We have been on the moor, in the town, and at the fortress. Then we went on a search for the reivers. NOT ONCE did we see a windmill or water wheel.

At the end of the book, I should know the characters as well as the surroundings. That way, I can concentrate on the action. And the Romance.

Just mention the waterwheel earlier. Simple fix that keeps my head from spinning around and calling the exorcist.

Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

amy s wrote:

In the last review, you wondered if the reader would just assume there were random windmills laying around.

Oh myyyy.

Um, I'm not going to let that one slip by. I absolutely NEVER, even once...considered that a water wheel was part of the surroundings. We have been on the moor, in the town, and at the fortress. Then we went on a search for the reivers. NOT ONCE did we see a windmill or water wheel.

At the end of the book, I should know the characters as well as the surroundings. That way, I can concentrate on the action. And the Romance.

Just mention the waterwheel earlier. Simple fix that keeps my head from spinning around and calling the exorcist.

No one gave me crap about the abbey ruins where a few secret meeting took place ... And like cottages, rivers, hills, hamlets, etc., watermills (not windmills) are a typical thing I really hope I shouldn't be spelling out for historical readers?

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Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

Here is the logic...historical readers enjoy the learning experience as well as the Romance. This is a chance to teach. I play at medieval studies, and I never suspected wind/water wheels to be part of the everyday landscape. It is a tech thing that surprised me. That is why I singled it out.

Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

I agree with Amy, although with slightly less mania. I'm medicated against that, you see. Hint, Amy. :-)

Part of what I like about your novel, Janet, is that it takes me to another time and place in our reality. I like to slow down from time to time in that setting to take in the scenery, the culture, etc. of that time period. No hard stops needed, just blend the stuff in with passing references.

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Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

I say get to the lovey dovey

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Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

In regards to falling, rolling, and thumping:  A fall coverts the potential energy of height into the kinetic energy of motion.  In a straight fall, all that kinetic energy is downward.  But if you roll using the energy of the fall, some--ideally most--of that energy goes into spinning you, so you hit the ground or floor with less linear velocity, less downward velocity, and less kinetic energy in the direction normal to (perpendicular to) the floor.

Re: NorthernSkies or NS - Janet

Okay, so what you guys are saying the details around the mill is too thin and not educating enough? That can be fixed! But my understanding was that I had to mention it way back earlier in the story ... Then again, I can probably do that! I just thought of a clever idea ... have Matthew or someone mention something about the new watermill that was built closer to a hamlet or town or the castle or something. That would work?

Just saw K's comment. I'll have Matthew and Catherine talk about it while they're falling, rolling and thumping! tongue big_smile

NJC, but you would still make a sound or some sound when you hit the ground, whether you hit it perfectly vertically or in a rolling motion? Yes? Don't make me do it to find out!!!!