William Short wrote:

You don’t have to be a paying member to be a Premium member...
I think the non-paying membership is called ‘Basic Membership' nowadays. On the old site a 'reviewer' level member could read and review everything. On the new site we can only join a single group. I have access to the Premium group. I’m not sure if that is a legacy thing or normal for ‘basic membership’.
On the front page I am offered “New Writing to Review from Your Groups” and I assume this is only content from the Premium Group.  I can read and review competition entries.

The content within the specific groups is listed and available to read and review, but I have to go look for it(not in-line review, but those reviews are for editors, no readers so it makes sense). I can’t join the groups, but I guess that only need apply to writers who want to submit work to those groups?

Ah, I expect you are right about a legacy membership. I know after my initial week's premium membership ended, I had to pay a subscription to be able to post anything here in the forum, enter the competitions, post any content, etc.

I am not sure I agree with you about readers and inline reviews. Sometimes it might be useful for you to highlight a specific bit of writing that doesn't make sense to you. Maybe you can't work out who's talking, maybe you are not sure where you are, or anything else that is concerned with the readibility of the piece, rather than the nitty gritty of line editing. For me, that developmental editing is as useful from a reader as it is from a fellow writer. I am so sorry you have been burned and I won't get the pleasure of seeing what you think of my writing.

I've updated the first chapter, I think I've taken everyone on board, I'm going over it again with each of the existing inlines. Let me know if you think it is any better, please?

jack the knife wrote:

My bad, William. I assumed - wrongly - that you were a paying member.

Yet the group info page states that posting to this forum is only open to premium members?

Bevin Wallace wrote:
William Short wrote:

I think the site has evolved from a showcase of sparkling fresh talent into a mundane grumble pit for  struggling writers.

“...mundane grumble pit for  struggling writers.”

You buried the lede.  Priceless, Mr. Short.  You’re my hero.

oh thanks, both of you. As one of the struggling writers, you reckon this place is of no value to us anymore?

William Short wrote:

Readers note to Authors

If a reader does not 'get' some aspect of the writing, and admits it. It doesn’t automatically mean that it is the readers fault for being stupid.

The reader is only stupid for mentioning it.

The reader is not the enemy.

The reader isn't stupid for mentioning it! I feel if a reader can't 'get' some aspect of the writing, I need to look at how I've expressed what I want to say. If it is just one reader, I might not do anything about it, but if several make the same point, no matter how precious that bit of writing is, I need to adjust it so that the readers CAN 'get' my meaning. Not to do so makes me, the writer, the stupid one.

The first time you get an honest review it can knock you back on your heels. If you are an intelligent new writer, you will sit back and consider again why you are getting so upset about something. You will find that it is the things that upset you have the most value in terms of making you think hard about your writing.
That has been my experience anyway and I consider myself hard-boiled, thick-skinned and no snowflake. I hated inline when I started here (not that long ago) almost retreated entirely, then actually considered what had been said, took a deep breath and stayed. I'm sure my writing has improved because of it.

Hi Amy, I've been looking through your back catalogue. Wow.

I assume you aren't looking for crits of the earlier pieces? I looked at your later work, and I think that for the Acts of Academia it would help to read the first book? I can't find it, is it here?

Morning Amy. Rewrites = 10 at the latest count.  And thanks for your nice comments about the flowers. I am really struggling not to listen to too many people. Beta readers, reviewers, my agent, myself. All of us want different things for and from this story.
My comments about where the book fits are more the words of others. I find that it takes its own form as I write, and even as I change it and polish it, it stays its own person. If you understand what I have anthropomorphised here...

p.s. I like Mickey Spillane. I am sanguine about sanguinary, so it might suit. Or make my blood run.

njc wrote:

I believe he means the 'ensemble' of characters.

Warning: K's stories resemble Mickey Spillane's =I the Jury=.  Everyone gets killed off.  Sanguinary, not sanguine.

ah, gotcha. I said I was feeling stupid. It is obvious now you say it.

I am spending this morning reading Brandon Sanderson's various lectures on Worldbuilding instead of working.

Kdot wrote:

Hmm if you're targeting a demographic for this reason alone, it's probably more of a hindrance than a benefit.

I tend to hover in the background and find creative ways to thin people's casts. Chapter one's are easy... have it so your group isn't assembled yet. I got my group together in chapter 14. I think Amy took an entire book to get hers assembled.

-K.

I'm being stupid today.

Which reason did you mean, that my writing seemed suitable for that age group? I've been told recently that my adult stuff is better, but I wonder if that is just that I am writing better full stop. We'll see. I have a lot of emotion invested in this book and I determined to get it right.

group: I'm not sure what you mean by group? Can you expand for me?

ok, found that as a free read online (first story from the anthology anyways) here http://www.baen.com/Chapters/0743498747 … 47___2.htm along with some other good 50/60s sf stories.  1st person, as with so many, I need third person for this book, for the alternate POVs, but has anyone played with writing in first person, then changing it to third afterwards, retaining the closeness of the 1st?

I have cleaned out the library of middle grade and YA fantasy novels. I have read and read and they are all so different. Some spend time setting the scene, others plunge straight in. It is the same thing with adult SF and Fantasy. Nothing is the same, it all depends on the individual editor and what they are thinking is the right stuff for the moment. Not a bad idea to hit the book stores now smile

As for the demographic of who would love it as it is? yep, you have it on the nail. 40 something women (and men for that matter) who love fantasy. It was never specifically written for the MG age group, I was just told that my writing style (and the lack of sex and violence) would make it more suitable for that age group.

Sometimes, I wish I were still the innocent I was at the beginning of all this. A little knowledge is not only a dangerous thing, it is a bloody pain in the neck.

And all points south.

Thanks NJ, I am going through the thing scene by scene, trying to apply scene or sequel to each one, to establish the goals of the characters within the scene, the conflict, what does it reveal, does it repeat any information, etc. It is timeabsorbing but probably necessary. I need to undertake an analysis to work out where it is going wrong. Later, I'm going to put up a much later chapter for you to see if I got anywhere in the second half.

thanks for that review Amy, some comments inline and in my reply.  I will get to yours later today, and hope to speak more with you all.
To give you all some background, this is a piece I first started in NaNoWriMo a long time ago. It sat in a drawer for years, along with another NaNo offering, and then I decided that I really should do something with one or the other. It was an arbitrary decision, pretty much a toss of a coin. The Minx came head up.
So, I pantsed the first two-thirds of the novel then ran totally out of steam.
I have an agent friend (I have career history in publishing) and she and I pulled it apart to see what needed to happen to it. She decided at that point, 2015, that it had sufficient legs and she wished to take it on, but it needed a LOT of work.
So I sat and outlined the remainder. But it was much too long.
So I pulled a third of it out, the parts referring to other people's actions, and concentrated on Izzy's actions only. That third became the guts of book 2. Now it had much more shape, but I was still having trouble with the beginning. I tried several versions, but each time I took away the first chapter (the one you have now) the beta readers shrieked. So I left it in.
Now, I have had some 12 year old beta readers try it out, and they are deathly quiet. They were excited to read it, so schtumm means they don't get it. If I were 12 I would only want to give something positive back, if I didn't like, I would say nothing.
So I had a long Skype with agent, and she was horrified that I would give it up, she loved the last part of the book but agreed with me that it was weak at the beginning.
So here we are, back at the beginning, at the structure.
I am a natural pantser. I don't mind line-editing, but developmental editing and structure? My least successful parts, so the parts I need to learn most about I guess.

njc wrote:

Points, glorious Points.  Or to spread your wisdom to those in such need that they have nothing to offer by answering.  But Points is a more innocent answer.

you poor old cynic, you.

thanks for your comments on the initial chapter, btw.
Dire, innit sad

ah, that's good then. Yes, I check my review page regularly just in case I missed one. But to never read the replies? Why bother then?

njc wrote:

Can you convert it a chapter at a time?  If you want to earn points, you can do practice reviews on my short stories or book chapters.  Or Amy's.  She's got a whale of a story split between books.  (My book chapters are at about revision -0.7 .)

right, will do that. It's all about available time! #bangsheadondesk

Why not just convert this thread to your book title and use it for everything?  Most of us do that.  Just look around.

ah, right, then I'll do that too. thanks for your help!

njc wrote:

Oh, and it is polite to reply to reviews.  Tells the reviewer you're listening.

I double checked yesterday that I had left replies to every single one of my reviews. Did you see I had missed one?

okeydoke.  I'll start another thread about my book, and work out how best to play this site eventually. Currently I have 13 points because I've used some up on the shorts, leaving me short for the book's 5 chapters - I need 25 to convert it to point-paying. Time is not on my side! I tried making some of the chapters inactive but it didn't affect the number of points needed, which is obviously calculated on the entire work.
I'll get there. Thanks for taking an interest anyway.

I don't have enough points yet sad I am reviewing as fast as I can, but I have to get some work done (and some writing!) as well. The short stories took fewer points so they've been published first.  I'm assuming that publishing to point groups makes that piece pay points as well?

Hi everyone. Norm d'Plume suggested I come over here as I was moaning on the Premium board about all the politics. He reckons you guys actually talk about writing... so are there any accepted fashions of posting here?  How do you like to do business?

I've got a fantasy MG novel (How to Breathe Underwater) at first draft stage that is about to receive a MAHOOSIVE rewrite. The existing first 5 chapters are up for review (I'll extend the viewing permissions to this group as well) so any initial comments would be gratefully received.

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(13 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Mariana Reuter wrote:

Lynne,

I was truing to check your work, but it seems it's kinda private.

Kiss,

Gacela

The short stories are all open to this group, I think, but my novel is currently only available to a closed group Crucible. As I get more points (and as I redesign the entire WIP) I will make that available too.

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(13 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

Hi Norm, ace idea. I'll see you over there. My WIP is a Middle Grade Fantasy so would suit the group in any case. I'm still finding my feet here, so I am probably floundering about making a lot of unnecessary dust.

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(13 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

JP I am a pantser by inclination. I simply can't think the plot through until I am about two thirds through, but then I seem to run out of steam and that is that place where i stop and start to look at the outline of what I have already and what I need to finish the book.  I was working through the YouTube vids of Ellen Brock and she was talking about editing using a scene by scene outline
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_190lk7nP0E
which looked really interesting. I guess it would come out something like this timeline for Jane Austen's Emma
https://www.shmoop.com/emma/emma-woodho … eline.html

I am planning a total rewrite and resetting of the arc of my WIP and find the thought really daunting.