Norm d'Plume wrote:Charles_F_Bell wrote:Did you read part two of this topic? Bad writing:
Jill hit Jack with a spoon.
How dare he say vanilla ice-cream tastes bad.
"What did you do that for?"
"You're mean!"
I need to play hard-to-get.
I find the above difficult to read because I'm not sure who is thinking. Here's my amateur solution:
Jill hit Jack with a spoon. How dare he say vanilla ice-cream tastes bad.
"What did you do that for?"
"You're mean!" I need to play hard-to-get.
I have no problem combining a character's thoughts, actions, and dialogue in the same paragraph as long as they're related.
Again, in part 2 . . .
I argue that there are two competing ways to use italics to express words not explicitly said by a character, one non-standard (cannot be found in CMS, for example), and the other rule-bending standard. Your version is non-standard.
my version
Vanilla, yuck! So I hit Jack with a spoon. What did you do that for? "You're mean!" I need to play hard to get.
- first-person limited
or
Vanilla, yuck! Jack says. So Jill hits him with a spoon. What did you do that for? "You're mean!" Jill thinks she needs to play hard to get.
- third-person limited
The reason I say the second is rule-bending standard:
1. The italicized words are not Jill’s in thought or speech. (A standard use of italics.) She is reacting against them.
2. The italicized words are emphasized. (A standard use of italics.)
and if the italicized words are in past tense, but Jill's words and thoughts are in the present tense:
3. The italicized words are not within the immediate context of the present action or narration – at a different time and space.
Vanilla, yuck! Jack had said. Jill hits him with a spoon. What did you do that for? "You're mean!" Jill thinks she needs to play hard to get.
Your non-standard use of italics to express an unspoken thought conflicts in derivable meaning from mine because by your use the words spoken by Jack could be words thought by Jill, whereas my words by Jack even if thought by Jill (as in recall, for example) are still clearly Jack's.
Okay, so we've used a trivial example to express some deep meaning when it really deserves completely standard treatment - there is no deep meaning, no real expression of "deep POV":
"Yuck! Vanilla?" Jack said.
Jill hit Jack with a spoon. "How dare you say vanilla ice-cream tastes bad."
"But why did you hit me with a spoon?"
"You're mean!" Jill said, but she thought, "I need to play hard-to-get."
but my example in part 2 on this topic from my own writing compresses into a much shortened version of what is long story not all in the same time and place (three different time periods) so, the proper, standard use of italics is:
Old man Max. That’s what Alec began to call me when he was ten. I replaced my Porsche with a Jag on my forty-ninth birthday. C’mon, how many times are you going to be forty-nine? The smart aleck said. Old man with his old-man car. I had thought him to be a quiet, even rather stupid boy, when he was little. A phone call in the night changed my mind. Should I kill them?
But by your such use of italics, those italicized words are Max's thoughts, not Alec's explicit words.