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Eager to find out how Gates and Manafort were playing footsie with these 13 Russians.

Rick Gates is reportedly close to becoming Mueller’s third cooperating ex-Trump aide(Emphasis mine)
CNN reports Gates is finalizing a plea deal with Robert Mueller.
By Andrew Prokop andrew@vox.com  Feb 15, 2018, 6:54pm EST

Special counsel Robert Mueller may be close to flipping another former Trump staffer.

Rick Gates—Paul Manafort’s longtime junior business partner, and a 2016 Trump campaign staffer—is “finalizing” a plea deal in which he’d cooperate with the Mueller investigation, CNN’s Katelyn Polantz and Sara Murray report. Gates has been in negotiations with Mueller’s team about cooperating for over a month, their report says, citing sources familiar with the case.

Back in October, Mueller’s team indicted Gates and Manafort on a combined 12 counts that mostly focused on alleged money laundering, failure to disclose financial assets, and false statements regarding their work for the government of Ukraine and a Russia-affiliated Ukrainian political party—matters that didn’t have anything specific to do with Russian interference in the 2016 campaign. (Both pleaded not guilty.)

But apparently, Mueller didn’t intend to stop there. The special counsel’s team had prepared superseding indictments that would add to or replace the original charges against both Manafort and Gates, per an earlier CNN report. Facing an expensive legal defense with no end in sight, Gates signed a new lawyer who has been working on cutting him a plea deal.

The biggest question, though, is whether Gates’s possible flip is mainly bad news for Paul Manafort concerning those lobbying and money laundering charges ... or whether it would have even bigger implications for the investigation into Russian interference as a whole, and into President Trump specifically.

Because if Manafort were to know of anything that could implicate Trump in connection with Russia, it seems quite plausible Gates would know it, too.

Who is Rick Gates?
Basically, Gates is Paul Manafort’s protégé and right hand man, who was at his side during his past decade of lobbying and foreign work, before going with him to join the Trump campaign.

Manafort, who is two decades older than Gates, had worked for Republican politicians, controversial dictators, and corporate interests before his career took a turn in the mid-2000s. He “all but vanished from the Washington scene” and began focusing on business activities in Eastern Europe, as Politico later reported.

This began with advising work for the Russian oligarch and aluminum magnate Oleg Deripaska, and soon moved into the political realm with advising work for the Party of Regions —Ukraine’s pro-Russian political party—and its leader, Viktor Yanukovych.

Gates joined Manafort’s firm in 2006 and began managing much of its Eastern Europe portfolio soon afterward, often working out of Kiev, according to the New York Times. In particular, Gates was to run a new private equity company called Pericles that Manafort was starting, to fund investments in Ukraine and Russia.

But in recent years, these business ventures went awry. President Yanukovych was forced to flee Ukraine due to protests and clashes over his pro-Russian policies. Pericles, meanwhile, collapsed in a messy legal battle, as Deripaska, its leading funder, accused Manafort and Gates of cheating him of millions. (An essential recent profile of Manafort by Franklin Foer in the Atlantic has more details on the pair’s Ukrainian work.)

Then, as part of an effort from Donald Trump to professionalize his presidential campaign, he brought Manafort aboard in March 2016. With Manafort came Gates. And as the original campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, saw his star fall, Manafort’s portfolio gradually expanded until he was effectively running the whole operation. In mid-May, Manafort was officially named campaign chair and chief strategist.

Though Trump fired Manafort in August 2016, Gates stayed on with the campaign through the general election, and later served on Trump’s inaugural committee and worked at a pro-Trump outside group until March 2017.

What was Rick Gates indicted for?
On October 30, 2017, in the first public indictments of Mueller’s investigation, Manafort and Gates were charged with a total of 12 counts.

The gist of the charges was that Manafort and Gates “acted as unregistered agents” of the government of Ukraine and Ukrainian politicians, generating “tens of millions of dollars in income,” which they then “laundered” through “scores of United States and foreign corporations, partnerships, and bank accounts.” You can read the full indictment here.

It’s helpful to think of the charges in two separate but related buckets: One is money laundering, and the second is false statements or failure to disclosure foreign work.

On the money laundering front, Manafort and Gates were both charged with a broader “conspiracy to launder money” and separate specific charges on their failure to report foreign bank and financial accounts.

Then there are the false statements and failure to disclose charges. They are:

Acting as an unregistered agent of the government of Ukraine, its president and one of its major political parties.
Making false and misleading statements under the Foreign Agents Registration Act related to that Ukraine work.
Now, these charges don’t necessarily seem to have anything to do with potential collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia—Mueller’s main investigative job.

But he likely saw these separate charges against Manafort and Gates as a means to this end. The stronger the evidence he has against either or both of them, the more pressure he can exert to get them to cooperate in the probe into Russian interference.

Would Gates be flipping just on Manafort—or on Trump?
Gates is far younger than Manafort (he’s only 45 years old), and he has young children. So though Gates pleaded not guilty, speculation almost immediately began over whether he might flip to avoid a long prison sentence.

The big question, though, is just what this flipping might entai—and whom Gates might implicate.

It is possible that Gates’s cooperation would primarily be useful to Mueller as a means to pressure Manafort further. After all, Gates certainly has in-depth knowledge about Manafort’s activities over the past decade-plus. His cooperation could make it easier to make a case against Manafort—or to get Manafort himself to flip.

But there are other possibilities as well.

After all, Gates worked on the Trump campaign. And unlike cooperator George Papadopoulos, he actually had a high-level job there which had him work quite closely with the person running the campaign for several months: Manafort.

For instance, there have been recent reports that Mueller is keenly interested in the White House’s story about the June 9, 2016, meeting Donald Trump Jr. arranged with a Russian lawyer in Trump Tower for the purpose of getting dirt on Hillary Clinton.

Gates wasn’t at that meeting—but Manafort was. And if anything inappropriate involving Russian interference with the campaign did happen there, one person Manafort just might tell could be his close friend and business partner of over a decade, Rick Gates.

That is to say that, while Gates’s potential cooperation could just be about providing information on Manafort’s business, it’s not out of the question that it’s about providing information on potential collusion with Russia.

It is also worth noting that Mueller has also looked closely into events during the transition period after Trump won but before he was sworn in. And while Gates didn’t officially work on the transition, he worked as the deputy chair of Trump’s inaugural committee, so he was in the president-elect’s orbit at the time.

So if Gates does flip, the bigger picture is that Mueller would then [have flipped] three former Trump aides—that we know of—cooperating and providing him with information. If criminal collusion did happen, that would put the special counsel in a better position than ever to uncover it.

Memphis Trace

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vern wrote:

13 indictments against Russians meddling in election. Ahh who cares? Certainly not Lord Trump's devotees though even Trump has now had to admit meddling. Just part of the investigation into nothing. Take care. Vern

Wonder how these meddlers will respond, if Trump suddenly were to implement sanctions against Russia?

¿Too bad Kushner's backchannel link was exposed before it was used?

Memphis Trace

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njc wrote:

As far as studies in the fall: the only ones that matter are those that lead individuals to decide that Trump's policies--GOP policies similar to Reagan's--are providing better lives.

In Trump country, patriotic American voters aren't waiting until the fall to decide that they have been duped. Looks like the rats are abandoning ship before they get the good news you think is coming in the fall.

In third bellwether contest, Florida Democrats again carry the day and hope for a blue wave (Emphasis mine)

By MARC CAPUTO 02/13/2018 07:58 PM EST Updated 02/13/2018 08:33 PM EST

Strike three.

For the third Florida bellwether election in a row, the Republican candidate lost to the Democrat, giving activists and elites in both parties a sense that the GOP’s political grip is slipping in the nation’s largest swing state heading into President Donald Trump’s first midterm election.


Aside from her big 7.4 percentage-point win, what made Margaret Good’s victory Tuesday night over Republican James Buchanan so significant was that it took place in Florida’s 72nd House District. It had been held by a Republican in Sarasota County, where registered Republicans outnumber Democrats by 12,000, or about 10 percentage points. Buchanan, the son of local Congressman Vern Buchanan, also had an advantage in name ID.

And Trump had carried the district by 4.6 percentage points in a state that he won by just 1.2 points in November.

But now Trump is too toxic even for Sarasota, say Democrats, who made sure to figuratively hang the unpopular president around the neck of Buchanan as well as the Republicans who lost in the two other recent bellwether contests: Florida’s 40th Senate District in Miami-Dade and St. Petersburg’s mayoral race. Both of those elections had Democratic-leaning electorates with significant minority populations, unlike the 72nd in Sarasota.

In all of the races, Democrats made sure to use Vice President Joe Biden as a surrogate.

“This is beyond a trend. The results are in. Republicans have a real problem in this state,” said Tom Eldon, a Democratic pollster who surveyed the race.

“This is the bellwether seat,” Eldon said. “This seat in Sarasota is the Republicans’ backyard. Anytime Democrats win a seat like this it’s great for Democrats. It happened in 1992. It happened in 2006. And it happened in this seat. This is a bellwether for bad Republican years.”

And it’s not just in Florida. Good’s win was the 36th Republican legislative seat in the nation that a Democrat has won since 2016, a feat partly attributable to Trump’s toxicity and to the reinvigorated Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee, which helped in Good’s race and the Florida Senate contest in Miami-Dade.

Though Democrats have seen successes throughout the nation, including Virginia’s governor’s race and Alabama’s U.S. Senate race, Eldon cautioned against extrapolating too much from those races.

In a state notorious for close election results, Democrats and Republicans alike said there’s only so much this race means heading into the November elections, when Floridians decide whether to keep Sen. Bill Nelson as they vote on open seats for governor, attorney general, agriculture commissioner and chief financial officer.

Republicans hope that the worst of Trump’s bad approval ratings are over and that Floridians will continue to see the state on the right track under Republicans. Gov. Rick Scott and the Florida Cabinet are all Republican and the GOP controls the state Legislature as well. Scott’s approval rating is higher than ever and he’s widely expected to challenge Nelson.

For all of the contested Democratic victories, though, Republicans point out that there has been no overwhelming “blue wave.” Republicans came out to vote. But there was a catch. Many voted for Good in the district, which has a reputation as a bastion for environmentally conscious establishment Republicans with Midwest sensibilities.

“This was less a blue wave than a red revolt,” said Anthony Pedicini, a top Republican consultant for Buchanan. “Republicans turned out on Election Day, and looks like there was little benefit to our campaign.”

One Republican, who didn’t want to speak publicly against his party’s candidate, said earlier Tuesday that Democrats had another advantage in the Sarasota House seat: “Buchanan was a terrible candidate. And candidates matter.”

Republicans were also bitter that two of their candidates for governor, Agriculture Commissioner Adam Putnam and Rep. Ron DeSantis, did little to help Buchanan. Meanwhile, the leading Democratic candidates for governor put aside their differences and pitched in for Good.

The only major national figure to help Buchanan: Trump’s former campaign manager, lobbyist Corey Lewandowski, who was kicked out of Trump’s inner circle before he even seized the GOP nomination for president in 2016.

Republicans fretted about the size of Good’s win in Sarasota. It was far larger than state Sen. Annette Taddeo’s win in Miami-Dade and St. Petersburg Mayor Rick Kriseman’s victory. Republicans believed that Good was more of an outlier and noted that they won two other recent special elections for state House seats in the Orlando and Tampa areas, though Democrats didn’t contest them seriously.

And because Republicans dominate the levers of power in Florida, they have greater financial resources that can be brought to bear in statewide races and in the multiple contested legislative seats in November. Democrats acknowledge that they’ve been able to win these recent contested elections because they’re able to concentrate their limited fire on one race at a time.

Midterm elections have cursed Florida Democrats as well. Regardless of who’s in office, they’ve consistently lost them statewide for more than two decades. Nelson has been the lone exception.

But, Eldon said, there’s only so much happy talk Republicans can engage in. Eldon said he remembered how, in 2010 and 2014, Democrats were losing in special elections as a prelude to being crushed during the midterm general elections.

“Republicans were saying in 2010 what we’re saying now in special elections. We’re seeing the same thing,” Eldon said. “If Republicans can’t win in Sarasota, it says a lot about the party’s chances.”

njc wrote:

Oh, thanks to increases in the GDP over the past few months, our GDP to national debt ratio has gotten a tick better.  (I'll find the reference if you want.)

Still waiting for the reference that paints a rosy picture of the national debt. How does it comport with the picture Trump's budget paints of the national debt?
 
Opinions
Trump’s reverse merger with the GOP is complete

By David Von Drehle Columnist February 13 at 7:50 PM Email the author

There was a lot of talk in 2016 about Donald Trump’s hostile takeover of the Republican Party, but I wrote at the time that in business terms, the transaction was more like a reverse merger.

Maybe you’re unfamiliar with this particular bit of legal, yet slightly sketchy, legerdemain. A privately owned business wants to sell shares to the public but for whatever reason wishes to avoid the close scrutiny of an initial public offering.

So the business owner finds a near-dead company that is already public, buys it for a song, grafts the private enterprise into the hollow public shell and — voila! — the deed is done. One of my favorite examples involved CoolBrands, which once gave the world such frozen treats as Eskimo Pies and the Chipwich. After the yummy product lines were sold to other companies, only the shell remained on the stock market. A private maker of cleaning products snapped it up, and in a twinkling it was public, selling grill degreasers instead of ice cream.

The George W. Bush presidency left the GOP as hollow as CoolBrands minus the sweets. Botched nation-building projects in Afghanistan and Iraq shook the party’s faith in its Reaganesque freedom agenda. The worst economic crisis since the Great Depression rattled its self-image as the party of fiscal competence. Republicans found an identity during the Obama years as the Party of No, but when something more elaborate was needed for the 2016 campaign, the lack of ideas became painfully clear. Sixteen other candidates tried out for the job of chief sales rep, and none could close the deal.

Instead, Trump snapped up the shell of the Republican Party and made it his public vehicle. This reverse merger has been finalized in recent days with a spending bill and proposed budget that no true conservative could love — or even tolerate — given the massive debt they will incur.

But don’t take my word for it. President Trump’s own budget director, the erstwhile tea party conservative Mick Mulvaney, allowed on “Face the Nation” that these Trump-branded debt bombs don’t square with his mothballed former principles. He was asked, were he still in Congress, would he vote in favor?

“Probably not,” Mulvaney replied.

He could drop the modifier, because there is not a chance in the world that the same Mulvaney who used the issue of President Barack Obama’s deficit spending to become the first Republican elected from South Carolina’s 5th District in more than a century would vote for Trump’s trillion-dollar debt debacle.

That Mulvaney is long gone, though, a casualty of the reverse merger. Gone, too, is the fiscal discipline once espoused by House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.), who made a career selling the ice cream of a balanced budget but now peddles Trump’s soft soap. Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) had plenty of partners in denouncing reckless spending when Obama was minding the store. Now that Trump owns the party, however, Paul is a lonely voice in the night.

Budget discipline is not the only concept Republicans no longer sell. Trump has replaced the free-trade GOP with a protectionist outfit. He’s pushing isolationism and nativism instead of global engagement. Remember how Republicans used to pitch virtue and personal accountability? They’ve become the party of alleged wife-beaters and hush money to porn stars.

But nothing illustrates the reverse merger with Trump more clearly than the Republican-led House of Representatives cheerfully passing tax-cut and spending bills that together will drive the annual deficit past $1 trillion, without the slightest prospect of a balanced budget in their plans. Deficit spending in a slump can be necessary stimulus. To do it on this staggering scale in a period of steady growth and low unemployment is fiscal malpractice.

Republicans used to run on promises that they would make government more efficient by cutting “waste, fraud and abuse.” Forget that, too. Phase one of the first-ever audit of Pentagon budgets recently found the Defense Department is unable to account for some $800 million in spending — by a single agency! Many more defense agencies remain to be audited. Yet the GOP insisted on adding $165billion over two years in new funding for a department that can’t adequately account for the $700 billion per year it already receives.

Lack of transparency is business as usual for Trump, and bankruptcy a familiar harbor. He’s a promoter, a tout, a shill — not a manager. It’s not at all surprising that he would funny up some budget numbers to create an annual fund of about $200 billion and call it a $1.5trillion infrastructure plan. Trump doesn’t compare himself to P.T. Barnum for nothing.

To those of us who value a two-party system, though, it’s a shame to see the conservative party sell itself for scrap. The ticker symbol GOP is now POT: Party of Trump.

njc wrote:

Oh, did you read?  =Mother Jones='s David Corn is facing some pretty stiff sexual charges of his own.

Oh, did you read? =Trump's= General Kelly has some splaining to do about covering up for giving access to classified materials to Rob Porter who didn't have security clearance.

Right Turn Opinion
Kelly needs to come clean(Emphasis mine)
By Jennifer Rubin February 13 at 1:50 PM Email the author

The Post reports:

FBI Director Christopher A. Wray on Tuesday contradicted the White House’s account of when the bureau informed officials about the status of a senior aide’s security-clearance investigation.

White House officials said that they were first contacted in the summer by the FBI about senior aide Rob Porter’s clearance. They also said that the investigation was never completed and that they did not know the extent of the allegations against Porter. He stepped down last week after accusations of spousal abuse by his two ex-wives.

But Wray, testifying before the Senate Intelligence Committee, said the FBI submitted a partial report on his clearance in March and that the investigation was completed in July.

In other words, it looks like the cover story the White House has concocted is false.

We, along with most of the media, have observed an unusual degree of incoherence and inconsistency in the White House explanation for Rob Porter’s continued access to confidential material and his eventual termination. Now it appears that for days Chief of Staff John F. Kelly and his subordinates misled the American people, and perhaps the president, in making it appear that Porter still had the potential to be granted a final clearance. This is false, raising the question as to why, knowing that he could not qualify for such a clearance, Porter would be kept on and given continued access (we presume) to top classified material.

If not outright lying, Kelly’s handling of this smacks of sheer incompetence. Was he covering up for his unwise decision to keep around an accused wife abuser? Did Kelly defy the normal security clearance process to protect not only Porter but also Jared Kushner and others who cannot qualify for the necessary clearance? We don’t know, but it is hard to argue that Kelly at this point, particularly if he intentionally misled the country, should be permitted to remain.

In a normal administration, Kelly likely would have been fired by now. In this White House, we don’t know if Trump had approved Porter remaining on and therefore consented to the Kelly cover-up or whether the president was bamboozled along with the rest of the country. If Kelly remains, the former explanation becomes more plausible — and more reprehensible.

At this point, Congress should take the unusual step of requiring Kelly to come testify, whether or not Trump fires him. He needs to answer, behind closed doors if need be:

How did Porter keep his job without the appropriate clearance?
Did they understand the security risk (e.g., blackmail) in allowing Porter to remain?
How many others denied permanent clearance in the White House have closed files but retain access to classified material?
Did Trump approve these security arrangements?
Why was Kushner denied clearance? Was it related to his inexplicable failures to disclose Russia-related financial material and meetings
?

Hillary Clinton sure has reason to wonder why her home email server was such a to-do while this White House allows, presumably, a slew of characters with questionable backgrounds access to our nation’s secrets. Isn’t it time for Trump to come clean and then justify why his White House plays fast and loose with our nation’s secrets?

Memphis Trace

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njc wrote:

As far as studies in the fall: the only ones that matter are those that lead individuals to decide that Trump's policies--GOP policies similar to Reagan's--are providing better lives.

Oh, thanks to increases in the GDP over the past few months, our GDP to national debt ratio has gotten a tick better.  (I'll find the reference if you want.)

Here are some early returns that will help individuals decide whether Trump's policies—GOP policies similar to Reagan's—will provide them with better lives:

President Trump has finally released his comic book

By Dana Milbank

In a Republican presidential debate in the fall of 2015, moderator John Harwood of CNBC asked Donald Trump about some of his more outlandish claims, such as making another country pay for a border wall and enacting huge tax cuts that wouldn’t increase the deficit.

“Let’s be honest,” Harwood memorably said. “Is this a comic-book version of a presidential campaign?”

Harwood got a lot of grief for that from Trump and his supporters, but—Great Caesar’s ghost! —would you look at this? President Trump’s comic book came out on Monday, in the form of his budget proposal. It is quite a marvel. In fact, we haven’t seen a comic like this in D.C. in ages.

Remember Trump’s boast that he would “get rid of the $19 trillion in debt ... over a period of eight years”?

Odin’s beard! He just hammered that promise to pieces. His budget would add $7 trillion to the debt over a decade—$2 trillion in the next two years alone—and even those numbers are based on the peculiar assumption that the economy will never again go into recession.

Remember Trump’s promise that “I’m not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid” and his boast about being “the first and only potential GOP candidate to state there will be no cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid”?

That promise has gone up, up and away. Trump proposes to cut more than $500 billion together from Medicare—health care for old folks—and Medicaid, which provides health care to the poor.

Remember Trump’s constant “Mexico will pay for the wall” vows?

Cowabunga! His budget made quick work of that promise, requesting 18 billion American dollars for that wall.

And remember just two months ago when the administration said the tax cut would pay for itself and the Treasury Department said it would actually increase tax receipts by $300 billion over 10 years?

Shazam! Quick as a flash, the administration now says tax receipts will be $314 billion lower in 2018, $400 billion lower in 2019 and even $200 billion lower in 2027 when the plan was supposed to be paying for itself.

But the really comic part is the way Trump would offset the big tax cuts for the wealthy and the huge increase for the Pentagon. These range from the villainous—billions of dollars taken from food stamps, college tuition assistance for poor kids and clean-air and clean-water protection—to the absurd—selling off airports and roads and magically saving $139 billion by reducing “improper payments.” Few if any of these will ever happen, so the actual increase in debt will be even greater.

It is, all in all, a super-heroic achievement, proving that the government can cut taxes and spend freely on whatever it wants, nobody will ever have to pay for it and nobody will suffer adverse consequences (except those unlucky fools who happen to be old, or poor, or consumers of, say, air and water).

This is a comic-book budget—but not a terribly good one. If the president is going to promise the stars and pay with peanuts, couldn’t he at least make it more interesting? If wild promises and unrealistic offsets are the stuff of a good budget, he could do much better:

All Americans of driving age shall be given a Tesla, and all Americans shall be entitled to elite status in a frequent-flier program of their choosing. The cost of this shall be offset by grounding EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt and Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke for one month.

To improve access to affordable housing, HUD shall subsidize stays at Trump hotel properties at the rack rate. If funds remain unspent after Trump hotels reach capacity, the secretary shall subsidize rounds of golf. The cost of this program will be offset by the elimination of prosecutions at the Justice Department against all who, in the president’s view, are not guilty.

All U.S. citizens shall be given 60-inch ultra-HD TVs. All Americans shall also be granted free subscriptions to Hulu, Netflix and HBO. The cost of this program shall be offset by the sales of organs harvested from those in the lowest quintile of wage earners.

All American families shall be provided with an armed Taepodong-2 intercontinental ballistic missile, as well as a launchpad, for the purpose of displaying them on homemade floats in military parades across the country. The cost of this program will be offset by eliminating the president’s intelligence briefings.

In addition to their obvious merits, these proposals have another thing going for them: They have exactly as much chance of becoming law as the Trump budget.

Already Trump is preparing the country yobs for a hard landing from all this winning he promised, and for making America Great Again.

njc wrote:

Oh, did you read?  =Mother Jones='s David Corn is facing some pretty stiff sexual charges of his own.

Oh, did you read Trump is defending another serial sex abuser =Rob Porter= to go along with his defense of Roy Moore, Roger Ailes, Bill O'Reilley, and himself?

Memphis Trace

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njc wrote:

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_cont … presidency

Gonna get worse.  Gonna get a lot worse--if any revelation could be worse than the cancerous corruption being exposed.

You are right. It is gonna get worse... for President Trump. Note the date—9 February, yesterday, in the year of our Lord 2018—of this article.

Poll: Majority say Mueller’s Russia probe is fair
BY JOHN BOWDEN - 02/09/18 12:00 PM EST
 
A majority of Americans say special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia is fair and should continue without interference, a Marist College poll reports.

The poll, released Friday, finds that just more than half of those surveyed, 53 percent, say that the special counsel probe is a "fair" investigation into Trump's campaign, while 28 percent say it is "unfair." This marks an increase from 48 percent who said the investigation was "fair" in the same poll last month.

In addition, respondents said they are more likely to trust Mueller than Trump. Given an option between the two, 55 percent said they would believe Mueller over Trump, compared to 30 percent that said the reverse.

Most Americans still have a positive view of the FBI despite weeks of attacks from Trump and congressional Republicans over the bureau's handling of both the Russia investigation and the investigation into former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's private email server, the poll finds.

Seventy-one percent of Americans said the bureau was just trying to do its job, compared to 23 percent who told the poll they believe the FBI is biased against the president.

Sixty-five percent of Americans have an overall positive view of the FBI, while 28 percent have an unfavorable view. Fifty-five percent of Republicans still have a positive view of the FBI, according to the poll, despite Trump's feud with the agency.

Marist College contacted 1,012 adults from Feb. 5 to 7. The poll has a margin of error of 3.7 percentage points.

∞ ∞ ∞

But there's still a seat in the caboose on the The Truth Train for you njc.

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njc wrote:

So far Mueller has come up empty except for except for charging someone based on  criminalizing faulty memory--the same thing they got Conrad Black on.  But Mueller hiimself has come under doubt.. He'll walk away--if he walks away--with his reputation badly soiled.  Meanwhile, FEC charges for the HRC campaign--if not for herself--grow more plausible.

President Trump, if You’re Innocent, Why Act So Guilty?
By Nicholas Kristof

Feb. 7, 2018
President Trump and Devin Nunes have been muddying the waters of the Russia investigation, so let’s try to clarify those waters so that they’re as clear as vodka.

Here are a dozen things we know.

1. Russia interfered in the U.S. election. The U.S. intelligence community concluded that President Vladimir Putin had “a clear preference” for Trump and “ordered an influence campaign” to hurt Hillary Clinton. The Department of Homeland Security notified 21 states that Russian hackers (mostly unsuccessfully) had targeted their election systems before the 2016 election.

Russia oversaw an online campaign using fake American accounts to spread anti-Clinton messages. Twitter found that 50,000 Russian accounts fired off 2.1 million election-related tweets in the fall of 2016, and in the final weeks around the election accounted for 4.25 percent of retweets of Trump’s own account.

2. Trump has longstanding business interests in Russia. The Times has explored these, beginning with a trip to Moscow in 1987 to try to build a hotel there. As recently as 2013 on another Moscow visit he was still optimistic, tweeting “TRUMP TOWER-MOSCOW is next,” but the buildings have never come to fruition.More successfully, Trump has attracted murky investments from Russia, raising speculation that Russia might have gained some leverage over him. A Russian oligarch paid Trump an eyebrow-raising $95 million for one Florida property. A Reuters investigation found that people with Russian addresses or passports had invested nearly $100 million in seven Trump properties in southern Florida.

“I know the Russians better than anybody,” Trump boasted in 2014.

3. Trump has consistently displayed a soft spot for Putin. At various times, Trump has described Putin as “so nice,” “so smart” and doing “an amazing job.” Trump defended Putin from allegations that he interfered in elections and killed journalists. “You think our country is so innocent?” he scoffed. Trump told another interviewer, “I think our country does plenty of killing also.”

4. Trump picked people with ties to Russia. He named as a foreign policy adviser Carter Page, who was investigated by the F.B.I. as far back as 2013 for possible ties to Russian intelligence (Page denies any wrongdoing). To run his campaign, Trump selected Paul Manafort, who had long experience working for Russian interests and once wrote a memo offering a plan to “greatly benefit the Putin Government.” Trump’s aides also tweaked the Republican Party platform in a way that would please Moscow.

5. Russia confided in the Trump campaign. In April 2016, the Russians told George Papadopoulos, another Trump foreign policy adviser, that they had “dirt” on Clinton in the form of “thousands of emails.” It’s not clear what Papadopoulos did with that information.

6. Trump aides secretly met with Russians. In June 2016, Russia offered the Trump campaign “official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary.” Instead of calling the F.B.I., Donald Trump Jr. responded, “I love it,” and arranged a meeting with the Russians and top campaign officials.

7. A Trump ally secretly communicated with a Russian mouthpiece. In August 2016, Trump ally Roger Stone communicated with Guccifer 2.0, believed to be an outlet for Russian military intelligence. Separately, Stone tweeted that “it will soon [be] Podesta’s time in a barrel”; seven weeks later, WikiLeaks began releasing emails Russia had hacked from John Podesta, Clinton’s campaign chairman.

8. … more secret contacts. WikiLeaks, presumably representing Russian interests, engaged in secret correspondence with Donald Trump Jr.

9. Kushner met a Putin ally. Jared Kushner met in December 2016 with a Russian, Sergey Gorkov, who is close to Putin. Kushner also privately asked the Russians about using Russian equipment to establish a secret communications channel to the Kremlin.10. Trump aides falsely denied contacts. Campaign officials denied innumerable times that there had been any contact with Russia. “Of course not,” said Mike Pence shortly before the inauguration. “Why would there be any contacts?”

Good question. In fact, there were at least 51 such contacts, including 19 face-to-face interactions, by the count of CNN.

11. Russia is still at it. Russian bots are joining Trump supporters in tweeting hashtags like #MAGA and #FullOfSchiff. These same Russian bots are promoting Fox News links that disparage the Russia investigation.

12. This is not normal!

Actually, I doubt that there was anything so straightforward as a secret quid pro quo. Indeed, some of these links are so blatant that they seem confusingly exculpatory: Why would anybody conspiring with Putin raise suspicions by publicly praising him?

Yet the Russian interference itself is beyond doubt. The Mueller investigation has led to two guilty pleas and two indictments so far, and it must continue. Frankly, it’s suspicious that Trump is throwing up so much dust and trying so hard to delegitimize the investigation.

He is not acting innocent.

Although I have greatly admired his writing skill in pushing his world view, I've spent much of Michael Gerson's time on the national stage decrying his tartuffery in defending President George W Bush and denigration of President Obama. Since the onset of Trump, I have been heartened that he has been struck blind on the road to Tarsus. (Emphasis mine

The cowardice among Republicans is staggering

By Michael Gerson Opinion writer February 5 at 7:47 PM
According to House Speaker Paul D. Ryan, the declassified Devin Nunes memo — alleging FBI misconduct in the Russia investigation — is “not an indictment of the FBI, of the Department of Justice.” According to President Trump, the memo shows how leaders at the FBI “politicized the sacred investigative process in favor of Democrats” and “totally vindicates ‘Trump’ in probe.”

Both men are deluded or deceptive.

Releasing the memo — while suppressing a dissenting assessment from other members of the House Intelligence Committee — was clearly intended to demonstrate that the FBI is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democratic Party. The effort ended in a pathetic fizzle. Nunes’s brief, amateurish document failed to demonstrate that FBI surveillance was triggered solely or mainly by a Democratic-funded dossier. But for cherry-picking above and beyond the call of duty, Nunes (R-Calif.) deserves his own exhibit in the hackery hall of fame. This was a true innovation: an intelligence product created and released for the consumption of Fox News.

Trump’s eager publication of the memo was expected. Yet his action crossed a line: from criticism of the FBI to executive action designed to undermine an ongoing investigation. Trump seems to be testing the waters for direct action against the FBI by testing the limits of what his Republican followers will stomach. So far, there are no limits.

With the blessing of Republican leaders, the lickspittle wing of the GOP is now firmly in charge. The existence of reckless partisans such as Nunes is hardly surprising. The nearly uniform cowardice among elected Republicans is staggering. One is left wishing that Obamacare covered spine transplants. The Republican-led Congress is now an adjunct of the White House. The White House is now an adjunct of Trump’s chaotic will.

And what to make of Ryan (R-Wis.)? I have been a consistent defender of his good intentions. But after the 17th time saying “He knows better,” it dawns that he may not. By his recent actions, the speaker has provided political cover for a weakening of the constitutional order. He has been used as a tool while loudly insisting he is not a tool. The way Ryan is headed, history offers two possible verdicts: Either he enabled an autocrat, or he was intimidated by a fool. I believe Ryan to be a good person. But the greatest source of cynicism is not the existence of corrupt people in politics; it is good people who lose their way.

The United States Congress is an institution of great power. According to the Constitution, it can deny jurisdiction to the Supreme Court. It can remove the commander in chief. But now it watches as Trump makes the executive branch his personal fiefdom. It stands by — or cheers — as the president persecutes law enforcement professionals for the performance of their public duties.

Why can’t Republican legislators see the personal damage this might cause? Trump has made a practice of forcing people around him to lower their standards and abandon their ideals before turning against them when their usefulness ends. His servants are sucked dry of integrity and dignity, then thrown away like the rind of a squeezed orange. Who does Trump’s bidding and has his or her reputation enhanced? A generation of Republicans will end up writing memoirs of apology and regret.

The political damage to the GOP as the party of corruption and coverup should be obvious as well. This is a rare case when the rats, rather than deserting a sinking ship, seemed determined to ride it all the way down.

But it is damage to the conscience that is hardest to repair. For Republicans, what seemed like a temporary political compromise is becoming an indelible moral stain. The Russia investigation is revealing a Trump universe in which ethical considerations did not (and do not) figure at all. Who can imagine a senior Trump campaign official — say, Paul Manafort or Donald Trump Jr. — saying the words “That would be wrong”? Their degraded spirit has now invaded the whole GOP. By defending Trump’s transgressions, by justifying his abuses, Republicans are creating an atmosphere in which corruption and cowardice thrive.

How can this course be corrected? “You only have one political death,” said Rep. John Jacob Rhodes, the late Republican congressman from Arizona, “but you can choose when to use it.” Larger showdowns — concerning the possible firings of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III and Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein — now seem likely. If there is nothing for which Ryan and other Republican leaders will risk their careers, there is nothing in which they truly believe.

Memphis Trace

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John Hamler wrote:

And, furthermore, Tom Brady and the Patriots just lost the Superb Owl. Why can't we debate the veracity of that result?

¿Or to excite your emotions we could reprise your Seahawks' convincing first Superb Owl win over the 2nd best QB in NFL history?

Ben Shpigel wrote:

So will the Eagles, whose demeanor in the past week evoked the 2013 Seattle Seahawks, who knew how good they were — and couldn’t wait to prove as much against Peyton Manning and the Denver Broncos. Jeffery spoke last week in definite terms: when, not if, the Eagles won the Super Bowl. Of Brady, he said Sunday night, “I respect him, a great player, probably one of the greatest ever, but hey, he had not played the Eagles yet.”

Memphis Trace

PS After your Superb Owl, I will never be able to call this annual bacchanalium the Super Bowl again.

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John Hamler wrote:

*...except to provide the president with a misleading pretext to fire deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein and discredit Robert Mueller’s probe.**

Yup. But what are we gonna do about it? Except get on a forum and complain about if our meager little forum even has the right to exist or contemplate or contextualize or conclude anything...

Go forth, John Hamler, and continue to preach the gospel. Progressives have 9 months to root out and run off the likes of Nunes and Ryan.

We are getting some support from the Right—Republican lawmakers distance themselves from Trump on memo:

Elise Viebeck and Shane Harris wrote:


A fierce partisan battle over the Justice Department and its role in the Russia investigation moves into its second week Monday as Democrats try to persuade the House Intelligence Committee to release a 10-page rebuttal to a controversial Republican memo alleging surveillance abuse.

The panel’s top Democrat, Rep. Adam B. Schiff (Calif.), is expected to offer a motion to release his party’s response to the Republican document during a committee meeting scheduled for 5p.m.Monday. It was not immediately clear whether Republicans would join Democrats in voting for the document’s release, as some members of the GOP have expressed concerns about its contents.

Speaking Sunday on ABC News, Schiff called the GOP memo a “political hit job on the FBI in service of the president.”

“The goal here really isn’t to find out the answers from the FBI. The goal here is to undermine the FBI, discredit the FBI, discredit the [special counsel] investigation, do the president’s bidding,” Schiff said on “This Week.”

Democrats spent the weekend pushing back against the claim by President Trump and some Republicans that corruption has poisoned the investigation led by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III into possible coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin during the 2016 election. Democrats and some Republicans worry that this view, buttressed by the GOP memo, will lead Trump to fire Mueller or Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein, who oversees the Russia probe.

Former CIA director John Brennan and lawmakers from both parties on Feb. 4 commented on the release of a GOP memo alleging surveillance abuses by the FBI. (Bastien Inzaurralde/The Washington Post)

Calling on Trump not to interfere in Mueller’s investigation, four Republican members of the House Intelligence Committee dismissed on Sunday the idea that the memo’s criticism of how the FBI handled certain surveillance applications undermines the special counsel’s work. Reps. Trey Gowdy (S.C.), Chris Stewart (Utah), Will Hurd (Tex.) and Brad Wenstrup (Ohio) represented the committee on the morning political talk shows.

Gowdy, who helped draft the memo, said Trump should not fire Rosenstein, and he rejected the idea that the document has a bearing on the investigation.

“I actually don’t think it has any impact on the Russia probe,” Gowdy, who also chairs the House Oversight Committee, said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.”

Stewart, arguing that the two are “very separate” issues, said Mueller should be allowed to finish his work. “This memo, frankly, has nothing at all to do with the special counsel,” he told “Fox News Sunday.”

The four Republicans walked a careful line on the GOP document, which alleges that the Justice Department abused its powers by obtaining a warrant for surveillance of former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page using information from a source who was biased against Trump. Their comments echoed those of Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.), who supported the memo’s release but insists that its findings do not impugn Mueller or Rosenstein.

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), whose actions have been at the center of the debate over the memo, did not give interviews Sunday.

Former White House chief of staff Reince Priebus. (Bill O’Leary/The Washington Post)
It remained unclear Sunday whether Trump would use the document as a pretext to fire senior Justice Department officials, a decision that could trigger a constitutional crisis, according to Democrats. Trump advocated the memo’s release, telling advisers it could help him, in part by undercutting Mueller’s investigation and opening the door to firings.
Trump tweeted Sunday that while “the Russian Witch Hunt goes on and on,” the Republican memo “totally vindicates” him.

“Their [sic] was no Collusion and there was no Obstruction (the word now used because, after one year of looking endlessly and finding NOTHING, collusion is dead). This is an American disgrace!” he wrote from Florida, where he spent the weekend.

The four-page GOP memo accused current and former senior Justice Department officials of omitting key facts about former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele, the source of some of their information, in applications to carry out surveillance on Page. Steele wrote the now-infamous dossier alleging ties between Trump and Kremlin officials; his research was paid for by Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign and the Democratic National Committee.

Republicans say this funding stream should have been disclosed in the surveillance applications, which they argue would not have been approved without the information contained in the dossier. Democrats take issue with both points.

Nunes said Friday that Justice “got a warrant on someone in the Trump campaign using opposition research paid for by the Democratic Party and the Hillary Clinton campaign.”

“That’s what this is about,” he told Fox News. “And it’s wrong. And it should never be done.”

If the House Intelligence Committee approves the release of the Democratic memo, it is expected to go to the Justice Department for redactions. Even if the motion succeeds, Trump has five days to block it.

Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) urged the president to support the document’s release in the spirit of fairness.

“A refusal to release the Schiff memo... will confirm the American people’s worst fears that the release of Chairman Nunes’ memo was only intended to undermine Special Counsel Bob Mueller’s investigation,” Schumer wrote Sunday in a letter to Trump.

The Intelligence Committee voted along party lines last week to release the Republican memo despite warnings from national security officials that it would damage U.S. law enforcement.

[Inside the FBI: Anger, worry, work — and fears of lasting damage]

As Sunday’s back-and-forth set the stage for more heated debate this week, Republicans faced questions over whether Trump might fire Mueller or Rosenstein.

Reince Priebus, the former White House chief of staff, said Sunday that he “never felt that the president was going to fire the special counsel,” disputing a report in The Washington Post that he was “incredibly concerned” Trump was moving to fire Mueller last summer.

“I never heard that,” Priebus said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” Pressed on whether he was aware of the president’s views on the issue, Priebus said Trump was clear about what he saw as Mueller’s conflicts of interest in the job, and he allowed that others may have “interpreted that” as Trump’s desire to fire Mueller.

Former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos that Trump should not fire Rosenstein.

“I would tell the president, if I was in his presence, ‘Do not fire him,” he said. “He’ll be fair and impartial. You may be upset about the politicization of what happened, but I don’t think it came from him. Give him a chance to sort this out with the rest of the department.’”

Memphis Trace

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Norm d'Plume wrote:

A politics or (more generally) a debate group might not be such a bad idea.

I just joined dagnee's group.

Memphis Trace

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Charles_F_Bell wrote:

I guess there is wisdom in the advice of not feeding the political-sociopathic trolls.  You even get a more partisan puppet (Renato Mariotti) to speak the Trump paranoid delusion, although in form it is merely a pastiche of Democrat talking points in defense of Obama-era corrupt government.

Renato Marriotti's analysis is just more disdain from across the political spectrum: from Bret Stephen's neoconservative platform to Marriotti's liberal platform. What is either paranoid or delusional about either opinion?

Challenge the message.

Memphis Trace

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dagnee wrote:
Norm d'Plume wrote:

A politics or (more generally) a debate group might not be such a bad idea.

I started the Fight Club group for fighting, for saying things to another member you couldn't say in this forum, but you all are welcome to start political debates in there if you want. Just one thing, I don't censor so if someone calls you a bad name or hurts your feelings don't whine to me about it.

:)

Great to find out about this, Dagnee.

Memphis Trace

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Jake J. Harrison wrote:

My family is split politically and we've decided not to discuss politics when we get together because it generally devolves into an argument.

I recommend you can avoid an argument by not commenting in political threads here on TNBW.

Jake J. Harrison wrote:

I like to come here to escape all of the red hot partisan bullshit which is circulating on the Web.

So why'd you comment?

Jake J. Harrison wrote:

If you find that must bring your viewpoint into a writing site, ask yourself why

The reason I do it is to have my political viewpoints vigorously challenged by the most eloquent people I associate with, outside my associations with political journalists.

Memphis Trace

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The Memo Doesn’t Vindicate Trump. It’s More Proof of Obstruction.
By Renato Mariotti

For weeks, allies of President Trump ratcheted up pressure to “release the memo.” The impact, according to supporters, would be monumental: It would shake the F.B.I. “to its core” (Representative Jeff Duncan of South Carolina) or it would reveal abuses “100 times bigger” than what incited the American Revolution (Sebastian Gorka, a former White House official).

The president himself said, after the memo’s release on Friday, that it “vindicates” him in the probe.

But it does no such thing. The memo from House Republicans, led by Representative Devin Nunes, fell well short of the hype. Its main argument is that when the Justice Department sought a warrant to wiretap the former Trump adviser Carter Page, it did not reveal that Christopher Steele—the author of a controversial opposition-research dossier—was funded by the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign through a law firm.

This is actually a fairly common—and rarely effective—argument made by defendants who seek to suppress evidence obtained by a warrant.

What might be the lasting legacy of the Nunes memo is how President Trump reacted to it. According to reports, Mr. Trump suggested “the memo might give him the justification to fire [the deputy attorney general, Rod Rosenstein]—something about which Trump has privately mused—or make other changes at the Justice Department, which he had complained was not sufficiently loyal to him.”

In fact, Mr. Trump’s approval of the release of the memo and his comments that releasing it could make it easier for him to fire Mr. Rosenstein could help Robert Mueller, the special counsel, prove that Mr. Trump fired James B. Comey, then the F.B.I. director, with a “corrupt” intent—in other words, the intent to wrongfully impede the administration of justice—as the law requires.

After all, Mr. Trump is now aware that he is under investigation for obstruction, and he knows that Mr. Comey said that Mr. Trump wanted “loyalty” from him. Mr. Mueller could argue that the president’s comments that Mr. Rosenstein was not “loyal” and his desire to fire Mr. Rosenstein suggest Mr. Trump’s unlawful intent when he fired Mr. Comey.

The memo also offers the outlines of a broader probable cause case against Mr. Page. The Nunes memo suggests that there was substantial additional evidence, even though it avoids discussing that evidence. The memo indicates that the investigation of Mr. Page began well before the warrant under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, was sought, and that the Russia investigation was initiated because of the statements of George Papadopoulos.

The warrant was issued and then renewed three separate times. Each time, as is standard in seeking a FISA warrant, a judge reviewed extensive information before issuing it. The fact that the warrant was renewed three times indicates that the F.B.I. obtained useful intelligence each time—a judge wouldn’t have approved a renewal if the prior warrant came up empty. That suggests that once the warrants were issued, they revealed important evidence.

In addition, the timeline set forth in the memo indicates that the FISA warrants were submitted by both the Obama and Trump administrations. The initial surveillance began before Mr. Rosenstein was deputy attorney general, and by the time he was at the Justice Department, he approved renewal applications that were based on the intelligence gathered from the earlier surveillance—not the dossier.

On the issue of bias, whenever the Justice Department seeks a warrant, they must present extensive evidence to a judge, who decides whether to issue the warrant based on that evidence. After the fact, defendants can challenge warrants by arguing that the government recklessly excluded information that would have caused the judge not to sign the warrant.

Courts have repeatedly held that even when the government omitted the criminal history of the informant or the fact that the informant was paid, it didn’t matter unless the omitted information would have caused the judge not to sign the warrant.

The Nunes memo claims to show that the warrant was obtained unlawfully, but there is no way of knowing that without examining the extensive evidence submitted in conjunction with the warrant, which the memo does not do. Given that Mr. Steele was a former intelligence officer, not a flipper with an extensive criminal history, it will be hard to show that a judge would have believed he was lying if the source of his funding was included in the application.

Given how little substance there is to the Nunes memo, the Republicans made a misstep by pushing through its release in a partisan manner. The specter of an unreleased memo was more menacing than the thin allegations revealed in the memo itself, which are hotly disputed by congressional Democrats.

Although at least one Republican maintains that the memo shows that Mr. Rosenstein, Mr. Comey and others committed “treason,” the memo itself does not allege that the F.B.I. or Department of Justice knowingly used false information or even that the information they used was false. Because the allegations in the memo are legally irrelevant, I would be surprised if the memo was more than a short-lived publicity stunt.

This is not the result Mr. Nunes expected when his staff wrote the memo, but that could be its lasting impact.

Memphis Trace

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Charles_F_Bell wrote:

Why do you persist in making this a forum for Trump paranoia?  It's one thing when politics or such-like detaches from  discussion started about something related to writing or literature, but your behavior is sociopathic.

¿Posting a critical analysis from The New York Times of a much ballyhooed propaganda memorandum attacking the FBI and the judicial system is not about writing and the kind of critical thinking journalists need to employ to write their opinions?

You must not be a journalist if you think posting the work of Pullitzer Prize winning columnists on a writing site is sociopathic. If you aren't interested in journalism, watch Fox News.

Memphis Trace

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From Bret Stephens, Pulitzer Prize Winning columnist when with The Wall Street Journal (Emphasis mine):
Gertrude Stein once said of her hometown of Oakland, Calif., “There is no there there.” That about says it for Devin Nunes’s notorious memo, too.

By this I do not mean that Nunes, the California Republican and chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, has uncovered no potential wrongdoing in his three-and-a-half-page memo, which was declassified Friday over vehement objections from senior F.B.I. and Justice Department officials. More about the possible wrongdoing in a moment.

The important questions, however, are:

First, did the F.B.I. have solid reasons to suspect that people in Donald Trump’s campaign had unusual, dangerous and possibly criminal ties to Moscow?

Second, did this suspicion warrant surveillance and investigation by the F.B.I.?

The answers are yes and yes, and nothing in the Nunes memo changes that — except to provide the president with a misleading pretext to fire deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein and discredit Robert Mueller’s probe.

Let’s review. Paul Manafort, the Trump campaign chairman until August 2016, is credibly alleged to have received $12.7 million in “undisclosed cash payments” from then-Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, a Russian stooge. Had Manafort not been exposed, he might have gone on to occupy a position of trust in the Trump administration, much as Reagan campaign manager Bill Casey wound up running the C.I.A. He would then have been easy prey to Russian blackmail.

George Papadopoulos, the young adviser who pleaded guilty last year to lying to the F.B.I., spent his time on the campaign trying to make overtures to Russia. In May 2016 he blabbed to an Australian diplomat that Moscow had political dirt on Hillary Clinton — information that proved true and was passed on to U.S. intelligence. This was the genesis of an F.B.I. counterintelligence investigation, as the Nunes memo itself admits.

And then there’s Carter Page, the man at the center of the Nunes memo. By turns stupid (his Ph.D. thesis was twice rejected), self-important (he has compared himself to Martin Luther King Jr.), and money-hungry (a suspected Russian agent who tried to recruit him in 2013 was recorded saying he “got hooked on Gazprom”), Page happens also to be highly sympathetic to the Putin regime. The Russian phrase for such characters is polezni durak — useful idiot. No wonder he was invited to give a commencement speech at a Russian university in the summer of 2016. That’s how assets are cultivated in the world of intelligence.

Given the profile and his relative proximity to team Trump, it would have been professionally negligent of the F.B.I. not to keep tabs on him. Yet the bureau only obtained a surveillance warrant after Page had left the campaign and shortly before the election, and it insisted throughout the campaign that Trump was not a target of investigation. How that represents an affront to American democracy is anyone’s guess.

The memo does seem to have uncovered conflicts of interest at the Justice Department, most seriously by then-Associate Deputy Attorney General Bruce Ohr, whose wife was working for Fusion GPS (and thus, by extension, the Clinton campaign) on opposition research on Trump. The memo also claims this relationship was not disclosed to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court when the Justice Department applied for a surveillance warrant on Page.

That’s a significant omission that already seems to have led to Ohr’s demotion, according to Fox News. Then again, the Nunes memo has its own “material omissions,” according to an adamant and enraged F.B.I. Who do you find more credible: Nunes or F.B.I. Director Christopher Wray?

Nor does the Nunes memo claim that the information provided by the F.B.I. to the foreign intelligence court was, in fact, false. The closest it gets is a quote from ex-F.B.I. Director James Comey saying the Steele dossier was “salacious and unverified,” and then noting the anti-Trump bias of various officials involved in the case.

Come again? The Stormy Daniels story is also salacious and almost certainly accurate. “Unverified” is not a synonym for “untrue.” And since when do pundits who make a living from their opinions automatically equate “bias” with dishonesty?

The larger inanity here is the notion that the F.B.I. tried to throw the election to Clinton, when it was the Democrats who complained bitterly at the time that the opposite was true.

“It has become clear that you possess explosive information about close ties and coordination between Donald Trump, his top advisers and the Russian government,” then Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid angrily wrote James Comey in late October 2016. “The public has a right to know this information.”

Maybe so. But the G-Men kept quiet about their investigations, and Trump won the election. How that represents evidence of a sinister deep-state conspiracy is a question for morons to ponder. As for Devin Nunes, he has, to adapt an old line, produced evidence of a conspiracy so small. In modern parlance we’d call it a nothingburger, but the bun is missing, too.

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njc wrote:

Yes, most of the articles come to my attention off instapundit, which has a staff of contributors.  Glenn Harlan Reynolds is better described as libertarian than conservative, though the various editors are more conservative.  Oh, and he's a professor of law.

¿Those who can, do; those who can't, teach?

njc wrote:

It's a little hard to be sure of the paragraph breaks when the text is interrupted by pictures.  Here's the quote: "California has the nation's highest percentage of impoverished residents when factoring in cost of living. One in three welfare recipients in the U.S. lives in the state.

This causes a quantum jump in my already high respect for California. Sounds like a reprise of The Grapes of Wrath.

As Alabamans, West Virginians, and Mississippians flee the conservative state governments of their birthplaces, it's good to know there is a warm home for them. California taxes its wealthy residents to make a home for them. And all the while California also contributes an outsized portion to the US Treasury.

njc wrote:

"One in four California residents was not born in the United States."

Lucky for California that immigrants are less prone than US citizens to crime and are as a group a net positive for the GDP, huh? To allay some of the burden of desperate Southerners looking to live the American dream, I mean.

¿Good thing California has more than a goodly share of the undocumented among the immigrants picking their grapes for them? The undocumented are not eligible for Federal assistance.

njc wrote:

If you're tired of instapundit, how about ricochet.com? https://ricochet.com/491590/trump-growth-machine/

I am interested in all your fake news outlets that gorge conservatives on alternative facts and conspiracy theories.

Memphis Trace

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njc wrote:

https://townhall.com/columnists/victord … 6?amp=true   See especially the end of the twelfth paragraph.

Is this

the end of the twelfth paragraph wrote:

Given California's exorbitant taxes and property assessments, high-end earners will soon learn that what they owe the IRS has skyrocketed.

to what you refer?

How do you believe punishing the wealthy political foes of Republicans by taking money from middle class Californians who moved to Silicon Valley—to give it to the wealthy scions of  Donald Trump with his pass through real estate income building up the estate his heirs will no longer have to pay taxes on—helps the country?

Memphis Trace

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Memphis Trace wrote:
njc wrote:

California's wealth/poverty ratio: I haven't run across the article with the claim.  But see this one: https://townhall.com/columnists/jonahgo … 5?amp=true

According to the standard poverty measure, Mississippi ranks first in the nation with a rate of 20.8 percent. California ranks 16th. The Census Bureau's "Supplemental Poverty Measure" places California first in the nation with a poverty rate of 20.4, and Mississippi falls to fifth.

To be clear, California spends an enormous amount of money fighting poverty. The problem, as Kerry Jackson explains in the winter issue of City Journal, is that California remains stuck in the past. While the rest of the country embraced welfare reforms that emphasized work, California's bloated and heavily unionized welfare bureaucracies -- with nearly 900,000 state and municipal employees -- clung to the old model of relying on policies that encourage dependency, not self-sufficiency.

A cynical interpretation holds that this is a feature, not a bug. Just as California's prison guard unions have fought reforms that might reduce the prison population -- fewer prisoners, fewer prison guard jobs -- California's poverty bureaucrats have a similar incentive. "In order to keep growing its budget, and hence its power, a welfare bureaucracy has an incentive to expand its 'customer' base -- to ensure that the welfare rolls remain full and, ideally, growing," Jackson writes.

In my experience, a cynic is an optimist by nature and a realist by sad experience.  I'm told that this is a cynical definition.  I think it a realistic one.

Cui bono?  The word 'underserved' from the mouths of bureaucrats is a flamimg red flag.

I am puzzled by what you purport to show by citing Jonah Goldberg's article showing that it costs almost 60% more to rise to the level of poor in California than it does in Mississippi?

Are we still talking about

njc wrote:

Why does Democrat-ruled California have the worst gap of all the states between rich and poor?  And why is that gap widening?

A cursory glance at the median income of households in California and Mississippi shows the median family income of Mississippi households is an almost identical 60% of median family incomes in California as the cost-of-living gap Goldberg claimed?

If we are still trying to see whether Democrat attacks on poverty are better than Republican attacks on poverty, the question we should be trying to answer is how efficiently the taxes paid by the wealthy are being used help those in poverty.

Memphis Trace

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njc wrote:

California's wealth/poverty ratio: I haven't run across the article with the claim.  But see this one: https://townhall.com/columnists/jonahgo … 5?amp=true

According to the standard poverty measure, Mississippi ranks first in the nation with a rate of 20.8 percent. California ranks 16th. The Census Bureau's "Supplemental Poverty Measure" places California first in the nation with a poverty rate of 20.4, and Mississippi falls to fifth.

To be clear, California spends an enormous amount of money fighting poverty. The problem, as Kerry Jackson explains in the winter issue of City Journal, is that California remains stuck in the past. While the rest of the country embraced welfare reforms that emphasized work, California's bloated and heavily unionized welfare bureaucracies -- with nearly 900,000 state and municipal employees -- clung to the old model of relying on policies that encourage dependency, not self-sufficiency.

A cynical interpretation holds that this is a feature, not a bug. Just as California's prison guard unions have fought reforms that might reduce the prison population -- fewer prisoners, fewer prison guard jobs -- California's poverty bureaucrats have a similar incentive. "In order to keep growing its budget, and hence its power, a welfare bureaucracy has an incentive to expand its 'customer' base -- to ensure that the welfare rolls remain full and, ideally, growing," Jackson writes.

In my experience, a cynic is an optimist by nature and a realist by sad experience.  I'm told that this is a cynical definition.  I think it a realistic one.

Cui bono?  The word 'underserved' from the mouths of bureaucrats is a flamimg red flag.

I am puzzled by what you purport to show by citing Jonah Goldberg's article showing that it costs almost 60% more to rise to the level of poor in California than it does in Mississippi?

Are we still talking about

njc wrote:

Why does Democrat-ruled California have the worst gap of all the states between rich and poor?  And why is that gap widening?

A cursory look at the median income of households in California and Mississippi show that  shows that the median family income of Mississippi households in an almost identical 60% of median family incomes in California?

The question we should be trying to answer is how efficiently the taxes paid by the wealthy are being used help those in poverty.

Memphis Trace

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njc wrote:

As far as studies in the fall: the only ones that matter are those that lead individuals to decide that Trump's policies--GOP policies similar to Reagan's--are providing better lives.

¿Better lives for the Trump family? For the poor? For the sick? For Dreamers?

njc wrote:

Oh, thanks to increases in the GDP over the past few months, our GDP to national debt ratio has gotten a tick better.  (I'll find the reference if you want.)

Please do. Does the article tell us who benefits from this tick? Is this tick sucking the blood of the poor to fund the military-industrial complex and its officers' pursuit of prostitutes?

njc wrote:

Oh, did you read?  =Mother Jones='s David Corn is facing some pretty stiff sexual charges of his own.

How is David Corn's sex life, or lack thereof, relevant to our discussion(s)? Do we want to compare Corn to "Small Hands" Donald?

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njc wrote:

Poverty pimps: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ … 788630001/   See the paragraph beginning 'In the famous Goldberg v. Kelly case'.  Who benefitted from the extra welfare costs?  The lawers and social workers who turned poverty ino an industry.

That paragraph reads:

USA Today wrote:

In the famous Goldberg v. Kelly case granting due-process hearings before the termination of welfare benefits, the Supreme Court looks to have been holding on behalf of poor and uneducated people. Yet it turns out that the actual beneficiaries are the highly educated: social workers and lawyers who are paid out of welfare agency budgets. Likewise, the court’s treatment of everything from reproductive rights to legislative apportionment has reflected Front Row priorities.

Since Glenn Harlan Reynolds didn't, can you link me up with the evidence that the actual beneficiaries of the welfare agency budgets have been the highly-educated social workers and lawyers?

I note well that almost everything you cite comes directly or indirectly from Instapundit, described in a 2007 memo from the National Republican Senatorial Committee as one of the five best-read national conservative blogs.

If in our free range Democrat v. Republican discussion, you intend to rely on Glenn Harlan Reynolds to support your Republican gospel, please support Reynolds' raw opinions with links to a modicum of evidence to support those opinions.

Now that we are exposing pimps, how hot is the air Reynolds blows onto the Naval officer pimps??
The article:
Twenty-five thousand dollar watches? Six hundred dollar a night hotel rooms? “A rotating carousel of prostitutes”? No one told us that joining the Navy and seeing the world was so decadent, but then again, no one told the Navy or the Department of Justice either. That could be why the DoJ rounded up eight officers yesterday., including the admiral who served as director of intelligence operations, and indicted them for corruption in the infamous “Fat Leonard” scandal:
The Justice Department unsealed a fresh indictment Tuesday charging eight Navy officials — including an admiral — with corruption and other crimes in the “Fat Leonard” bribery case, escalating an epic scandal that has dogged the Navy for four years.

Among those charged were Rear Adm. Bruce Loveless, a senior Navy intelligence officer who recently retired from a key job at the Pentagon, as well as four retired Navy captains and a retired Marine colonel. The charges cover a period of eight years, from 2006 through 2014.

The Navy personnel are accused of taking bribes in the form of lavish gifts, prostitutes and luxury hotel stays courtesy of Leonard Glenn “Fat Leonard” Francis, a Singapore-based defense contractor who has pleaded guilty to defrauding the Navy of tens of millions of dollars.

It’s not just corruption, either. The eight, including the man who ran intelligence operations for the Navy, are accused of passing along classified information to Glenn Defense Marine Asia (GDMA), the DoJ said in its statement yesterday (received by e-mail):
According to the indictment, the Navy officers allegedly participated in a bribery scheme with Leonard Francis, in which the officers accepted travel and entertainment expenses, the services of prostitutes and lavish gifts in exchange for helping to steep lucrative contracts to Francis and GDMA and to sabotage competing defense contractors. The defendants allegedly violated many of their sworn official naval duties, including duties related to the handling of classified information and duties related to the identification and reporting of foreign intelligence threats.  According to the indictment, the defendants allegedly worked in concert to recruit new members for the conspiracy, and to keep the conspiracy secret by using fake names and foreign email service providers. According to the indictment, the bribery scheme allegedly cost the Navy – and U.S. taxpayers – tens of millions of dollars.

The indictment can be found here. Bear in mind that indictments are not convictions, and that these men will have a chance to answer these charges in court. However, the DoJ already has guilty pleas from ten other Navy personnel indicted earlier in the scandal, as well as three GDMA officials. Based on what appears in the indictment, some of them may have been cooperating with investigators, as the allegations appear detailed and, er … intimate, especially when it comes to Douglas MacArthur memorabilia (page 23, lines 5-7). Yecch.

This solves an earlier mystery from almost fourteen months ago, too. The Washington Post reported in January 2016 that the Navy’s top man in intelligence, Admiral Ted “Twig” Branch, had his clearances revoked in 2013 and could no longer access any classified information — but yet remained in his post in intelligence work. Loveless was one of his deputies at that time and included in the same report. Craig Whitlock reported that the three-year probe into “Fat Leonard” had not yet been completed, and so the Navy was “frozen” on Branch and Loveless. Branch finally retired later in 2016, after getting passed up for promotion, and in July the Navy finally had an intelligence chief that could access intelligence again.

Perhaps this round of indictments spells an end to the scandal, and Branch can enjoy his retirement. It still leaves lots of questions about why the Navy left him in that position for years while being prevented from performing the vital job assigned to him, and how Branch somehow missed his own deputy’s corruption.

Memphis Trace

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njc wrote:

Here's an instapundit item with two links: https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/trumps- … ing-an-ex/  .  The first link is to a reasoned argument; the second is to a study with numbers.

Conservatives predicted the benefits of Reagan's tax cuts and other policy changes.  Liberals predicted disaster.  The only disaster was on the side of the poverty pimps.

Who are the poverty pimps you refer to? 

njc wrote:

We had a recovery that lasted into the Clinton years, with scarce labor forcing wages so high that minimum wage ceased, for a time, to be an issue.

How much of this long-lasting recovery do you attribute to the several tax increases forced upon Reagan by Congress?
An excerpt:
Even before the 1981 tax cut took full effect, under pressure from Congress, Reagan boosted taxes several times: in 1982 with the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act, again in 1983 with the Social Security Amendments, and in 1984 with the Deficit Reduction Act. Many of these tax increases aimed to increase federal tax revenue, after it declined following initial cuts.

Or

How about George H. W. Bush's 1990 Omnibus Reconciliation Act shepherded through a Democratic Congress to prevent the collapse of the S & L industry?

An excerpt:
When Bush took office in 1989, the federal budget debt stood at $2.8 trillion, three times larger than it had been in 1980. This financial situation severely limited the President's ability to enact major domestic programs. The federal government did not have the revenues for any large, new domestic ventures, nor did the political climate lend itself to enacting them. To compensate for these constraints, Bush stressed "a limited agenda," that included volunteerism, education reform, and anti-drug efforts. President Bush did not come into office promising to preside over an era of great change; he won the presidency basically vowing to maintain the status quo and preserve the legacy of his predecessor.

Having pledged during the campaign not to raise taxes, the President found himself in the difficult position of trying to balance the budget and reduce the deficit without imposing additional taxes on the American people. He also faced a Congress controlled by the Democrats. Although Republicans thought that the government should approach the budget deficit by drastically cutting domestic spending, the Democrats wanted to raise taxes on the richest Americans.

Budget negotiations for the 1991 fiscal year proved especially contentious and problematic. Bush had no choice but to compromise with Congress, and his administration entered into lengthy talks with congressional leaders. The President had Chief of Staff John Sununu, Director of the Office of Management and Budget Richard Darman, and Secretary of the Treasury Nicholas Brady lead the discussions. In June 1990, Bush issued a written statement to the press, reneging on his "no taxes" pledge made during the campaign, noting that tax increases might be necessary to solve the deficit problem. In October, after a brief government shutdown that occurred when Bush vetoed the budget Congress delivered to him, the President and Congress reached a compromise with the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990. The budget included measures to reduce the deficit by cutting government expenditures and raising taxes. Many conservative Republicans felt betrayed when Bush agreed to raise taxes, or to include "revenue increases" as he called them in his statement after signing the bill.

On top of the budget crisis, Bush started his presidential tenure as the Savings and Loans industry was collapsing. The federal and state governments had deregulated the industry in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and the S&L industry ventured into riskier investments that destabilized it. In February 1989, with many S&Ls failing, Bush proposed a plan to help bail out the industry. The President reached a compromise with Congress that ended up costing taxpayers more than $100 billion. The collapse of the Savings and Loans and the subsequent government bailout only added to the difficult financial environment that Bush confronted during his presidency.

How'd supply-side, trickle-down tax policy work out for Conservative prognosticators in Kansas? Too bad Kansas couldn't print money or borrow from China to stave off its economic woes, huh?
An excerpt:
Earlier this year, Kansas' GOP-controlled legislature voted to effectively end a five-year push to slash taxes on individuals and businesses after revenues plummeted and forced deep cuts and tax hikes elsewhere. In doing so, they overturned a veto by Gov. Sam Brownback, a Republican who drew national attention in conservative circles when he launched his ambitious tax-cut program in 2012.

For Democrats, Kansas has become Exhibit A in their prosecution of the Trump tax cuts. It's routinely cited as evidence the new GOP proposal won’t grow the economy or pay for itself, and that proposed business tax reduction similar to Brownback’s will create a new loophole for wealthy individuals to exploit.

"It was a real-life experiment in a Republican state, similar to what President Trump announced," Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said on the Senate floor. "It added so much money to their deficit over four years that they have had to figure out ways to raise taxes now, just as Ronald Reagan did in 1986." 

njc wrote:

Conseratives predicted the negative consequences of the social changes beginning in the '60s.  Those predictions have largely been airbrushed from history, even as they came true.

What were the social changes in the '60s about which Conservatives predicted negative consequences? 

njc wrote:

Even the liberal icon Daniel Patrick Moynihan concluded that liberal policies had been a disaster for working class black families--but once he broke with liberal orthodoxy, he lost the respect of the liberal establishment.

Which liberal policies did Moynihan conclude were a disaster for working class black families? And which liberals among the liberal establishment stopped respecting Moynihan?

njc wrote:

Why are the cities with the worst crime the ones that have been longest in the hands of liberals?

Where do you get this information?

Here is an October 2016 article that belies your conclusion

njc wrote:

Why does Democrat-ruled California have the worst gap of all the states between rich and poor?  And why is that gap widening?

It doesn't. California ranks 7th, one slot above Texas, 2 slots below Florida, 3 slots below Nevada, and 4 slots below Wyoming.

njc wrote:

So, let's check predictions around mid-October, shall we?

Of which predictions do you speak? Are you saying that 20 months into Trump's administration, that crime in liberal bastions will be down? That the gap between rich and poor in liberal bastions will be smaller?

njc wrote:

A few weeks before the elections?

I think there will be an abundance of studies about that time that should shed some light on how well Trump's legislative accomplishments have benefited the rich vs how well they have benefited the poor.

Bring studies that support your position—whatever that may be at the time—back here to TNBW's forum.

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njc wrote:

Legal immigrants are less likely to commit crimes.  But those who broke the law to be here have already shown a willingness to break the law.  And at least some of them belong to Mexican or international gangs--a definite marker for likely further crimes.  You need to separate legal and illegal immigration, especially since only one of the categories is at issue.

"Undocumented immigrants commit less crimes than the native born."
— Antonio Villaraigosa on Monday, July 31st, 2017 in an interview on MSNBC

MOSTLY TRUE: Undocumented immigrants less likely to commit crimes than U.S. citizens
By Chris Nichols on Thursday, August 3rd, 2017 at 4:04 p.m.

Candidate for California governor Antonio Villaraigosa jumped into the nation’s heated debate on immigration reform during a recent interview on MSNBC.

The Democrat and former Los Angeles mayor rejected the idea that deporting undocumented immigrants was a sound strategy for reducing crime.

His statement followed President Trump’s speech about combatting MS-13 gang members. The gang started in poor Los Angeles neighborhoods where many refugees from civil wars in El Salvador, Guatemala and Nicaragua lived in the 1980s. It’s grown into an international criminal organization with more than 30,000.

Trump campaigned on the promise to deport millions of undocumented residents, often describing them as threats to public safety.

Here’s what Villaraigosa said on July 31, 2017 on MSNBC.

"I think we all agree that people that commit violent crimes ought to be deported. But going after the undocumented is not a crime strategy, when you look at the fact that the National Academy of Sciences in, I think it was November of 2015, the undocumented immigrants commit less crimes than the native born. That’s just a fact."

We decided to examine this last point as part of our Tracking The Truth series, which fact-checks claims in the 2018 California governor's race.

We interpreted Villaraigosa’s statement to mean undocumented people commit crimes at a lower rate than the native born.

But we wondered whether this was really a settled matter.

We set out on a fact check.

Our research

We started by checking out the 2015 National Academy of Sciences study Villaraigosa cited.

Emphasis mine
It found: "Immigrants are in fact much less likely to commit crime than natives, and the presence of large numbers of immigrants seems to lower crime rates." The study added that "This disparity also holds for young men most likely to be undocumented immigrants: Mexican, Salvadoran, and Guatemalan men."

It continued: "Today, the belief that immigrants are more likely to commit crimes is perpetuated by ‘issue entrepreneurs’ who promote the immigrant-crime connection in order to drive restrictionist immigration policy."

The academy is a nonprofit research organization charged with providing independent advice to the nation. It is funded largely by the federal government.

Findings in a March 2017 study by the libertarian Cato Institute also support Villaraigosa's statement:

"Illegal immigrants are 44 percent less likely to be incarcerated than natives. Legal immigrants are 69 percent less likely to be incarcerated than natives. Legal and illegal immigrants are underrepresented in the incarcerated population while natives are overrepresented."

The Cato study used information from the U.S. Census Bureau's American Community Survey for immigrants aged 18 to 54 who are incarcerated in the United States.

To examine Villaraigosa's claim, we also relied on research into similar claims by our partner national PolitiFact. In July 2016, it rated Mostly True a statement by Libertarian candidate for president Gary Johnson that Mexican immigrants "are more law-abiding than U.S. citizens and that is a statistic."

PolitiFact found several studies that back up this claim by citing incarceration rates. It also found groups that challenged those studies or said more research is needed.

PolitiFact’s findings

PolitiFact pointed to a July 2015 report by the American Immigration Council, a pro-immigrant nonprofit in Washington. The council analyzed data from the Census’ 2010 American Community Survey and found that about 1.6 percent of all immigrant males (Census does not specify legal status) between 18 and 39 years old were incarcerated, compared to 3.3 percent of the native-born population.

Looking at California prisons, immigrants are also underrepresented. U.S.-born men are incarcerated in the state at a rate of more than two-and-a-half times greater than that of foreign-born men, according to a study by the Public Policy Institute of California.

The American Immigration Council also reported that 2010 Census data shows incarceration rates of young, less educated Mexican, Salvadoran and Guatemalan men — which comprise the bulk of the unauthorized population — are "significantly lower" than incarceration rates of native-born young men without a high-school diploma.

Specifically for Mexican men ages 18 to 39, the incarceration rate in 2010 was 2.8 percent, compared to 10.7 percent for native-born men in the same age group, the council’s report said.

Immigrants come to the United States to build better lives for themselves and their children, said Walter A. Ewing, a senior researcher at the American Immigration Council and one of the report’s authors.

"They are very motivated to not blow that opportunity by getting in trouble with the police," he told PolitiFact. "This is especially so for unauthorized immigrants, who can be deported at any time for unlawful presence."

Crime trends

PolitiFact also noted that as the immigrant population has increased, crime has gone down, citing Ewing’s report.

Between 1990 and 2013, the foreign-born share of the U.S. population increased from 7.9 percent to 13.1 percent, and the number of unauthorized immigrants went up from 3.5 million to 11.2 million. At the same time, the violent crime rate (murder, rape and aggravated assault) decreased 48 percent and property crime rate fell 41 percent, the report said, citing FBI data.

Bianca E. Bersani, an assistant professor and director of the Criminology and Criminal Justice Program at the University of Massachusetts in Boston, says her research also shows that crime involvement among foreign-born residents is lower than that of U.S.-born citizens.

"The rhetoric of the ‘criminal immigrant’ does not align with the bulk of empirical research," Bersani said.

According to Bersani’s research, while first-generation immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the native-born population, the second generation (individuals born in the United States to at least one foreign-born parent) more closely resemble patterns of their native-born peers (three or more U.S.-born generations).

"This does not suggest that the second generation is uniquely crime prone, but instead that they are acting in ways that are no different from the rest of the U.S.-born population," Bersani said.

Datasets with information on both crime and immigrant status are rare, Bersani said, though more research and data are becoming available.

More research needed?

The Center for Immigration Studies, which supports stricter immigration policies, in a 2009 study said that overall understanding of immigrants and crime "remains confused" due to lack of data and contrary information.

Unless inmates are identified as immigrant or native-born, incarceration rates are a poor way to measure links between immigrants and crime, the study said.

As PolitiFact reported in 2015, there isn’t exact data on how many undocumented immigrants are currently incarcerated.

PolitiFact California spoke about this critique with Ewing of the American Immigration Council, whose research supports Villaraigosa’s claim. He said he’s confident in the work that’s been done and said critics have used anecdotes, rather than full-blown research, to try to make their points.

Ewing added that the studies backing up Villaraigosa’s statement are "from such a wide range of researchers using so many different methodologies and sources of data -- not everyone can be wrong."

Our ruling

Villaraigosa said "undocumented immigrants commit less crimes than the native born."

He cited a 2015 study by the National Academy of Sciences that backs up this claim.

In a fact check last year, PolitiFact rated a similar claim Mostly True. It cited additional studies by scholars and partisan groups that show that the foreign-born population is less likely to commit crimes than the native-born.

It also found that researchers agree more data is needed to get a better understanding of immigration and crime. It said this was a needed clarification.

PolitiFact California agrees with these findings.

We rated Villaraigosa’s claim Mostly True.

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njc wrote:

Others disagree.  I'll chase down an analysis from a different source, who believes that the changes in business climate are only beginning to be felt.

I would appreciate that.

njc wrote:

Amywsy, we'll see what happens in a year.  I remind you, though, that conservatives have a much better track record on predictions.

Do you have a source to show conservatives' acumen in predicting the future? Most of the prophesying I see coming from Trump's base is of the imminent onset of The Rapture. If your "conservatives have a much better track record on predictions" is true, will you be relaying your year-end data from heaven?

Or will it be from Kansas, where Governor Brownback, the Wizard of Kansas, predicted for 5 years that his tax cuts were going to take Kansans to heaven?:
In 2012, Kansas lawmakers, led by Gov. Sam Brownback, a Republican, enacted a tax cut that eliminated state income taxes entirely for pass-through entities—such as sole proprietorships and limited liability partnerships—which are taxed at the owner’s individual income tax rate. The law also lowered individual income tax rates, cutting the top rate to 4.9 percent from 6.4 percent.

The tax package reduced state revenue by nearly $700 million a year, a drop of about 8 percent, from 2013 through 2016, according to the Kansas Legislative Research Department, forcing officials to shorten school calendars, delay highway repairs and reduce aid to the poor. Research suggests the package did not stimulate the economy, certainly not enough to pay for the tax cut. This year, legislators passed a bill to largely rescind the law, saying it had not worked as intended.

“It caused a lot of budget instability,” said State Senator Jim Denning, a Republican who led the effort to repeal the pass-through exemption this year. Mr. Denning, who earns pass-through income from his interest in a commercial real estate firm, said he had personally benefited from the exemption, but the state’s economy had not.

njc wrote:

Oh, and on money spent on refugees, you're neglecting perverse incentives, which law, economics, and the insurance business term 'moral hazard'.

If one includes immigrants as part of the total population, crime rates for the country would decrease.
Contrary to Trump’s Claims, Immigrants Are Less Likely to Commit Crimes:
A central point of an executive order President Trump signed on Wednesday—and a mainstay of his campaign speeches—is the view that undocumented immigrants pose a threat to public safety.

But several studies, over many years, have concluded that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than people born in the United States. And experts say the available evidence does not support the idea that undocumented immigrants commit a disproportionate share of crime.

“There’s no way I can mess with the numbers to get a different conclusion,” said Alex Nowrasteh, immigration policy analyst at the libertarian Cato Institute, which advocates more liberal immigration laws.

Mr. Trump often cites specific cases of undocumented immigrants committing or being charged with crimes, like the 2015 killing in San Francisco of Kathryn Steinle, whose accused killer had repeatedly been convicted of crimes and deported, yet slipped back into the United States.

His executive order states that many people who enter the country illegally “present a significant threat to national security and public safety.” It directs the Department of Homeland Security to publish a weekly “comprehensive list of criminal actions committed by aliens and any jurisdiction that ignored or otherwise failed to honor any detainers with respect to such aliens.”

Analyses of census data from 1980 through 2010 show that among men ages 18 to 49, immigrants were one-half to one-fifth as likely to be incarcerated as those born in the United States. Across all ages and sexes, about 7 percent of the nation’s population are noncitizens, while figures from the Justice Department show that about 5 percent of inmates in state and federal prisons are noncitizens.

And hard work being done would increase.

Memphis Trace