It sounds like most of the struggles you're having has to do with your chosen POV. Have you considered trying it in 3rd Omni? The all seeing eye of 3rd Omni would allow you to delve more easily into many heads. The added bonus of choosing that POV given the type of tale you're aiming for is you won't need difficult transitions because the narrator handles that for you--in that pov you're allowed to give perspective from multiple main characters.
1 2020-11-16 19:51:37
Re: How to handle lots of dialogue within dialogue? (16 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
2 2020-11-15 17:44:14
Re: How to handle lots of dialogue within dialogue? (16 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Thank you, Linda. Not to beat this to death, but the characters who are telling this shared tale (using double quotes) also relate dialogue that was spoken within the tale. That requires nesting quotes, which is what you see in my initial post in this thread. Maybe I'm just missing something...
Thanks
Dirk
Double quote are used to depict words spoken out loud. Generally used in dialogue between 2 or more characters. However, you can have words spoken aloud with only a single character (I often scream "Fuck" at other drivers when alone in my car), but that's the exception rather than the rule.
Single quotes are generally reserved to reference something said in past tense. It can be used in narration and in active dialogue. It's simply a way to portray a recollection of spoken word.
Narration, depending on the type (there are several), is generally where the reader gets a much more in-depth peek at what the character is thinking or feeling. It's also used to fill in subtext (things that aren't said), define stakes, flesh out details, or to illustrate the stark differences between what a character thinks and what he says. The narrative in your example was strong because it fleshed out the stakes, gave us a peek into what he was really thinking (but not saying) and filled in a few informational holes. Putting all that in quotes would get very confusing to the reader...because it changes it from narration, to dialogue.
3 2020-11-15 17:20:46
Re: How to handle lots of dialogue within dialogue? (16 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
I tinkered a tiny bit with your example.
An Imperial walker delivered Luke to me at the landing platform, his wrists in restraints. The officer in charge handed over Luke’s lightsaber before turning to depart, leaving Luke and me alone for the first time in many years. (small edit to rid it of quotation and attribute correctly--you had a 'he' which would have been attributed to Luke as the last person mentioned, and you weren't referring to Luke at all. I switched it around to get rid of that)
"Hello, Luke."
"Elrond." (removed the second hello to rid it of echo effect--see echo dialogue)
"It’s good to see you again."
"Is it?" he asked, twisting his wrists against the restraints. "I never thought we’d end up on opposite sides of the war."
I wanted to take him into my confidence and reveal my plan, but it was too dangerous. ((which is why it wouldn't ever be in double quotes because then the other person in this 2-person scene would hear exactly what he's thinking)) Palpatine was an incredibly powerful Sith Lord. One slip by Luke and my plan would’ve fallen apart, leaving Palpatine aware he had been manipulated. He would not fall for the same ruse twice.
"Vader will be here shortly," I said. (changed the tag because with only 2 people in the scene, it's obvious who he spoke to)
"You don’t need to do this," he said, ((using the Force in an attempt to influence my mind.)) this part makes no sense because it feels as though it's a piece of narrative stuck within a dialogue tag, which is confusing and doesn't work. "Walk into the forest and disappear." I'm assuming this piece of dialogue is Luke trying to use the Force? If so, it needs to be reworked for clarity and should probably be in it's own line with clear-cut action tags.
"I can’t do that, Luke. I have a role to play, as do you." (added the name for clarity sake)
We spent the next thirty minutes mostly in silence, waiting for Vader. When he arrived, he told me, 'Leave us. Find his companions.' I did exactly as instructed and took my leave in haste. (I changed it up a tiny bit and chose to leave what Vader said in single quote because the narration is being told in past tense as a recollection--therefore double quotes would be incorrect AND turn it into a tense flip)
~~~~
This doesn't address dual narrative, but it's punctuated so that narrative isn't being spoken aloud, and what is spoken aloud is punctuated appropriately as spoken word.
4 2020-11-15 16:25:52
Re: How to handle lots of dialogue within dialogue? (16 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
I'm not sure how that would work. The characters in the story weave in and out of the tale, talking to each other, moving around, etc. Also, there is more than one narrator; other characters jump in and tell parts of the historic events.
If characters are talking to each other directly, it should get handled the same as you would for all dialogue; double quotes, tags etc. But if the narrator isn't speaking to another character, it doesn't classify as dialogue anymore unless he's speaking it all aloud to himself--which might work in tiny snippets, but would be quite odd and tiresome in a long read.
I'm a heavy dialogue writer and all of my stories have many characters weaving in and out, talking to each other etc. I also generally have a narrator (usually the MC). It's not difficult to accomplish this if you pay close attention to creating character voice, utilizing solid transitions, good tagging and employ solid punctuation consistently.
As far as multiple narrators, there are loads of available techniques to do this effectively--the top 2 being differentiating characters by giving each a unique voice, and creating rock solid transitions--so switches between narrating characters are crystal clear to the reader. Switching heads in a 1st person narrative isn't an easy thing by any stretch--which is why so many writers go the route (the lazy one IMHO) of titling who is speaking, or using new chapters to switch heads. It's so widely done (especially these days) because getting good at creating written transitions takes a lot of work.
5 2020-11-14 14:29:54
Re: How to handle lots of dialogue within dialogue? (16 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
I agree. It's odd usage. The narrator shouldn't be in quotes and the dialogue should be in double quote. Single quotes are generally used when recollecting what was said.
6 2020-10-18 13:55:31
Re: Welcome (257 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Hi, my fellow writers,
I am brand new to this site and posted my very 1st writing I am currently working on.
Quick question,
Is it worth the cost to join the site?
Are benefits plentiful?
How can I get speedy feedback?Any tips or advice for a newbie, are greatly appreciated.
Looking fwd to hearing from you,
CJ
Paying for membership affords you access to the entire site, not just the basic side. Whether that's right for you depends on your planned level of involvement. If you plan to be actively involved, then yes, there are plentiful benefits.
As to 'speedy' feedback, it's not how the site works, but you can always come to the forum asking for feedback and offer yours in return. Reciprocal reviewing is the foundation of this site (and also how you earn points). The more you review others, the more likely they are to review you in return. The other thing that helps TONS is being responsive to critique. When someone leaves you a review, you will see red notification of it on your homepage--respond to it. Dormant critiques are a quick way to ensure you won't get reviewed by that person again.
Good luck!
7 2020-10-01 16:47:38
Re: Contest Winners (11 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Congrats to all!
8 2020-10-01 16:41:47
Re: Welcome (257 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Welcome to the site. Don't worry too much about the legacy accounts. Many people sign up for a free trial, but then realize they can't make enough time to be a serious writer. We also have many legacy accounts from an older site that was replaced by this one.
I think Sol called us 'Founders', but either way, Dirk is right. There are a ton of inactive accounts due to this. My excuse for not being as active as I once was is a complete and utter life change which has upended virtually everything. I'm just now peeking out from beneath the ashes and hope to get back into full swing soon.
Welcome to the site!
9 2020-07-29 15:32:54
Re: Beginnings (12 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Add me to the list of those who have been around here long enough to have wrinkled. And like the others, I've read a handful of your billion attempts at Antagony--a couple of which I would put in the stellar class. Memphis is right, you're much too hard on yourself and have deleted a couple of versions that were better than most of us are capable of creating. Such a waste.
10 2020-06-24 11:27:33
Re: Posting tip I discovered (13 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
And for comparison, I use Firefox and my file format is also .docx
11 2020-06-22 15:04:23
Re: Posting tip I discovered (13 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
The pop up window is designed for holding the formatting of word docs and has always worked flawlessly for me. NOT using it, or editing in the TNBW pane is what's caused all the formatting issues
12 2020-06-22 14:48:17
Re: gone, but not forgotten (16 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Hey JP, sorry to hear you're going through this. Similar happened to me years ago when the hard drive in my writing computer died unexpectedly. Like vern, I was able to get most of it recovered by paying a technician to do it.
That experience taught me the value of buying a small external hard drive that I used only for back ups of my writing files. I DID NOT leave it connected to my computer and only took it out once a week to perform back ups. To preserve day to day edits, I used a simple thumb drive which I would erase each week after a successful back up to the bigger external drive.
It's a laborious thing, but is the only safety net that's virtually fool proof. And thanks to the fire proof safe I bought, even if my home goes down in flames, my writing won't because that's where I store my external.
Edited to add: the reason I stopped keeping my external connected to the computer was I ALSO had an external hard drive go bad once too from keeping it connected and 'on' all the time. They also don't handle power surges well either. Safest bet, connect--back up files--disconnect and store. Personally, not a fan of cloud services for storing writing. None of those services are guaranteed to be there forever.
13 2020-06-22 14:29:26
Re: Posting tip I discovered (13 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
I've never once had formatting issues when pasting into the TNBW box from Word (using control C and V). As another person said however, problems DO crop up if you use the TNBW edit pane to make changes after the fact.
Also, it's been a while since I've posted new content, but the other thing I always made sure to do is to click the Word icon on the header of the TNBW edit pane whenever I added new content. A small box pops up to paste your document into which accepts and holds the formatting coming over from Word.
Edited to add: I just checked and the Word icon is still there on the header of the edit pane. When/if you need to edit a published doc, don't do it directly in the TNBW edit pane---revise your doc in word first and repeat the process.
14 2020-06-10 14:30:51
Re: Historical Fiction Contest Entry Ain't Happening (7 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
I don't know if there is a bug, or something on my end, but the contest is also not showing any entries.
15 2019-12-04 18:51:46
Re: POV slip vs. reasonable assumption? (25 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
I think in Dirk's case, Temple is right in that if you often find yourself having to explain and/or defend a critique for the purposes of clarity, then the overriding issue probably isn't due to the ineptitude of the reader. Regardless of the pov issue, if the reader doesn't clearly understand, or has questions about a head shake, then chances are YOU aren't doing an adequate job on the page.
But I take great umbrage to the notion that because a writer may not be interested in breaking trends or reinventing the wheel that it somehow equates to hackdom. It doesn't--at all. Just because a writer has found a lane that makes them happy and chooses to stick with it, does not make them any less of a writer. Choosing NOT to strive for eternal relevance with their writing IS a valid choice. And to somehow equate that to settling for less is disingenuous...and haughty as hell.
16 2019-12-04 17:43:28
Re: Antagonists (8 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
I think you are asking too broad a question. Yes, there are plenty of articles out there for how to solidly craft an antagonistic character, but none of them will specifically cover what you are asking for. Only the writer can answer such things. Like Rachel said, the style of action flows directly from overarching motive of your specific character in X situation, so a book will only give you examples and generalities.
I can somewhat relate though because when drafting my last wip, I was nagged by the overriding question of motive of my antag. As a pantser, I only had a very basic and general idea. But because there were many questions of legalities pertaining to my subject matter, I felt a much stronger than normal need to think more seriously about it early on. I did eventually come up with several potential scenarios and just kept writing until the one that made the most sense for my characters, given their situation, began to take shape.
And as vern suggested, an antagonist doesn't have to be a bad guy. They are merely the opposing force to the PRIMARY goal of your Protagonist. So the better questions to ask yourself are: What is my protags primary goal? What obstacles are they going to experience to get it? Once you answer those questions, the primary motive of your Antag is pretty much spelled out. You can always layer in secondary motives to bring color and dimension to their opposition (which I usually do in the edit phase when I have the fuller picture in front of me).
17 2019-11-25 16:50:51
Re: Run-on sentences that aren't (15 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
I'm probably guilty of such accusations.
My first personal yardstick is if I start skimming, you've lost me--regardless of how hard you worked at crafting. My second yardstick is if I sense the act of crafting trumping the actual content, you've also lost me. Ive read impossibly long passages that have kept me riveted, so it's not a case of my being dismissive of a technique.
Be cranky all you like, I respect (and resemble) that. But methinks on this issue one doth protest too much.
18 2019-11-24 16:15:37
Re: Deep Cover (12 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Well done Jack!
19 2019-11-19 18:47:06
Re: Connecting posts/chapters to form a 'book' (12 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Hi Ray
1. Click ‘Post your Writing’ tab from the home page header.
2. Click the red button labeled; ‘Add New Content’
3. Fill in the form, making sure to choose ‘book’ from the 1st dropdown
4. Click the button on the bottom of the page marked; ‘submit basic information and summary’
5. Choose the cover you desire
6. Click ‘upload image and create your cover’ or ‘use TNBW generic cover’ buttons on bottom of page when done
7. Click the “Next’ button on bottom of page
8. Click Add Chapter
9. Fill out form at top of page, enter chapter content on bottom of page, then click ‘Next’ on bottom of page
10. Choose your publishing options then click red button.
11. When ready, click the green button to ‘Publish’
To add a new chapter to the above project:
1. Click “Post Your Writing’ tab from the home page header
2. Scroll down your portfolio list for the name of the book you’d like to add to.
3. On the right side of that book listing, there is a small ‘Action’ tab which brings a drop down menu—click ‘add chapter’
4. Fill out to form to indicate the chapter number and other information. Paste your content in the appropriate window and hit next.
5. Fill out publishing info and follow the same final steps as above.
6. Rinse and repeat for future chapters.
Once you've added all your current chapter content to a new single book project, you can delete your old one so people don't get confused.
20 2019-11-08 16:08:20
Re: What happened? (38 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Well, I went to see what you were posting most recently and the genre isn't really my cup of tea. That said, one of the issues I saw immediately is that you're creating a new project every time you post a chapter--instead of combining them as chapters in one project. This makes it much more difficult for potential reviewers.
Another issue I saw, which admittedly might be a me thing, but of the two chapters I peeked at, you're using different, hard to read fonts. And they vary in size. It may just be the way you are capturing them out of your word program, but in general, it's FAR less taxing on the eyes to read things in universal fonts and sizes here on the site so you may want to consider reformatting.
21 2019-11-08 15:50:24
Re: What happened? (38 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Hey Ray,
I haven't been around for quite some time, but in general I agree with your comments. Even prior to this newer site coming to be, there were cyclical downturns that happened on the old site too. But, I've always chalked it up to it being the nature of the beast when you consider the majority of writers who frequent sites like this aren't full-time writers. Living life naturally takes priority so we're forced to suffer the resulting ebb and flow of active participation.
I think the only viable work-around is to keep widening your circle of reciprocal reviewers. As much as I used to loathe having to continually build new relationships, it was a necessary evil. The downside of this is it ups our read/review commitment to the point it can sometimes be counter productive because there are too many to keep up with.
Either way, I don't know what genre you favor but I'm slowly getting back in the swing and am open to picking up new R/R's. I'm not very helpful with fantasy, sci-fi or heavy historical--but I'd be happy to take a peek at something if you'd like to point the way.
22 2019-11-05 20:30:01
Re: Just returned (5 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Here's the long form query:
LISA DUNN has no way of knowing her fragile adult life is about to become far more fearful than her childhood as a habitually abused orphan. Her first clue should have been when she hears from a panicked CHERYL WHITMAN; best friend she hasn’t seen in fourteen years.
Cheryl whisks back into Lisa’s life with a nefarious tale about being sold into sexual slavery by the malevolent SISTER MARGARET—mother superior of the orphanage they formerly called home. Armed with evidence, and on the run, Cheryl asks Lisa for help.
A plan is formed to use Lisa’s job as a journalist to expose Sister Margaret and keep Cheryl safe from the thugs that mean to silence her. But conditions quickly go pear-shaped when Cheryl runs off to retrieve a piece of vital evidence on her own. Lisa gives chase only to receive the answer to an unexpected question: Are they fighting to right a terrible wrong, or are they fighting for their life?
Thrust headfirst into a world of sexual perversion and corruption that encompasses two states, one foreign country, and even the United States Senate, Lisa is forced to decide if she has the strength and emotional resilience to expose, Sister Margaret’s One Big Lie.
#########
What's up on the site now is the rough draft. I'll post the rewrite/edit as I go if you are interested.
23 2019-11-05 17:46:22
Topic: Just returned (5 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
I'm not sure how many familiar faces are still active, but I wanted to pop in to apologize for being absent for so long. Between folding my businesses, selling my home, moving cross country, divorce, a cancer diagnosis and becoming officially disabled--the last two years have been a challenge.
But, now that the dust is beginning to settle a little and I finally found someone to move my writing desk out of storage, I'm making it a point to attempt to get back in the swing of things. No new writing projects at present, but I think I'm finally ready to start editing the WIP I finished posting here a couple years ago. Could use some fresh eyes on it and have the time to swap reads.
24 2019-11-05 16:47:30
Re: Where Did Everybody Go? (3 replies, posted in This is US!!)
I can't answer for anyone else, but I've been lost in the ether for the last couple of years...shutting down and selling two businesses, repairing and selling a house, a cross-country move with 3 dogs and a 93 year old mom, a divorce, a cancer diagnosis and becoming disabled. It's been a CRAZY couple of years for me. I'm only just barely coming out of the fog in the last month or so.
Hope everyone else is well.
25 2018-10-14 18:03:33
Topic: Face to Face writing groups (2 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)
Hey all
I'm thinking of starting a writing group in my local area and am looking for ideas. I've been a member of TNBW and a couple of other online groups for many years. I've also been involved in several face to face groups over the years, but have never been able to find a consistently good/useful one.
There are a couple of reasons real life groups haven't worked well for me:
1. Most of them require you read your writing sample aloud with critique to follow. I am not a fan of this method, as convenient as it is. I don't want my immersion factor being effected by literal author voice. The critique is also superficial at best because if you pause to write a note while the author keeps reading, you miss out on the next chunk of writing. Plus, there is zero time to pause and reflect...which is a vital part of the critique process for me.
2. The mix of genres and skill level.
I could advertise for a specific type of writing (novels, short stories etc.) and even set the experience level desired, but I live in a rural area and fear I will limit interest too much by doing so. Yet, it won't be a very helpful group if I don't put some limits on it.
Any ideas how I could go about combating some of these issues?