Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

I think this thread has derailed a little bit from "What is my genre?" to "Why genre is important."

I think if you try to force a book into a genre, you can ruin it. If you try to write to a genre, you can come up with derivative crap.

Finding what genre your book fits in is what started this thread and it can be difficult. I've struggled with it with my own book because it gets bogged down by limited scope. You can throw out as many different types as you want but in a bookstore (if you can still find one) there really aren't many to pick from.

You're going to be slotted into Fiction, SciFi/Fantasy, Mystery, Romance, YA. That's it. There's no Historical fiction section, no Historical Romance, no SciFi Political Thriller.  Subgenres simply don't exist for broad marketing because they're not going to appeal to people who don't know what they're looking for. This is important because you still have a large section of the population that grew up looking for books like this.

Amazon and other online retailers have expanded the Genre and Subgenre search because its easier to have 25 search options instead of 25 sections of a physical store. This might be where we're going but even there they still fall back to the big genres. That's where I'd start.

Is my book Fiction? Is it Mystery? Is it Fantasy? From there you can go into the subgenre's and find where your book fits. I think that's easier because you can start with something broad and get more focused. That said, I still haven't figured out my own with any certainty. This is due in part to different definitions of genres from different sources. Some may require Historical Fiction to be based in the real world, others don't. Some require fantasy to have elements of magic, other's don't. Political fiction is where I've landed more often than not but I've also had people who've read Rise tell me repeatedly that it is historical fiction.

If you can't figure out one of the broad Genres that your novel would fit into you might want to start asking who would want to read it. Unless you're writing just to write it is important to know who your audience is and the Genres are defined by that.

Quote Post 26

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

If you are wanting to query an agent, knowing and identifying genre is an extremely important step because the query should include this information. Many agents also like genre/style comparatives within the query. Vern is right that agents tend to make changes to genre if they're interested in your work...but that matters not. They want to know that YOU know which genre(s) your work fits.

If you don't think your novel fits in one solid genre or sub genre, then choose the one closest and run with it. Just make sure what you choose is closest to the overriding theme of the novel and it's not a made up or slammed together term. Check the agency website and look at the genres they represent. If your closest theme is on the list, use that term no matter how many other themes there are (PS this is where using comparative works in your query will help that cause).

Quote Post 27

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

Randall Krzak wrote:

How about a romantic fantasy? This would cover the fantasy/sci-fi parts and also with the protanganist's loss of his loved ones?

It's more of a friend he loses than a loved one

Quote Post 28

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

Thanks guys for the feedback, I think I will continue to search for the genre of my novel

Quote Post 29

30 Reply by Deckland Oz (edited by Deckland Oz 2018-06-27 23:17:18)

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

Mark S. Moore wrote:

it is important to know who your audience is and the Genres are defined by that.

Actually, I think you have it backward: genres are not defined by audiences; rather, publishers know who the audience of a given genre will be, which is why they consider genre essential: it gaurantees readership. If genre were defined by audience, one might simply say: “Mysteries are books which people who like mysteries want to read,” which is not very helpful in defining what mystery intrinsically is.

What actually defines genre is not a given audience but the expectations of the audience a given genre naturally has. A genre is nothing more than a label that says what a book contains, just like a label on food. Chocolate chip ice cream contains chocolate chips. So, if you want to write romance, you better have some steamy sex; mystery must have, well, a mystery, something for the MC to solve; action must have action; etc.  You must have these points because that's what the audience expects. Otherwise, if you label a book “horror” and the book is about cooking pancakes, you will have a very dissatisfied audience indeed. Just as ice cream labeled “chocolate chip” but containing none of the titular entities will surely disappoint.

So, knowing your book’s genre can be as simple as asking which of the features the collective group of all literary genres contain does your book contain, then determining which is most prominent. Then again, you must consider limiters. For example, if you label your book “historical fiction” and it's full of dragons and dwarfs you will annoy your audience supremely: historical fiction does not involve dragons and dwarves.

So, to determine the genre of one's own book, you have to simply ask some qualifying questions. Such as:

Does it take place in our world or another world?

In the past or the future?

Does it involve magic and magical beings?

Etc. 

As for you book specifically, you might check this thread. The consensus seems to confirm what I would also say, based on my brief encounter with your work: It's fantasy.

https://www.writingforums.org/threads/d … ic.149509/

Quote Post 30

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

Mark S. Moore wrote:

I think if you try to force a book into a genre, you can ruin it. If you try to write to a genre, you can come up with derivative crap.

Can you give an example of "derivative crap?"

Quote Post 31

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

Deckland Oz wrote:
Mark S. Moore wrote:

I think if you try to force a book into a genre, you can ruin it. If you try to write to a genre, you can come up with derivative crap.

Can you give an example of "derivative crap?"

Any novel that tries to shoehorn elements of a genre to make it work. I just finished a trilogy I enjoyed 90% of by Joe Abercrombie. It was considered Fantasy for the magic element which boiled down to basically Terry Brooks take on magic. It clearly didn't belong despite being an undercurrent through the whole series and it was the only part of it that would have fit the Fantasy genre. Naturally, that's just my opinion, but to me, it cheapened the story.

If you're adding something that doesn't fit your story just to put it in a genre box it's not going to come off as original or even necessary. It can come off as uninspired, as was the case in this particular trilogy.

Quote Post 32

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

Deckland Oz wrote:
Mark S. Moore wrote:

it is important to know who your audience is and the Genres are defined by that.

Actually, I think you have it backward: genres are not defined by audiences; rather, publishers know who the audience of a given genre will be, which is why they consider genre essential: it gaurantees readership. If genre were defined by audience, one might simply say: “Mysteries are books which people who like mysteries want to read,” which is not very helpful in defining what mystery intrinsically is.

Feels a bit chicken and egg to me. You can't set expectations without a target audience. Not in a commercial sense. Why would you want something as a tenet of a genre if the audience it is designed for didn't like that? Sci-fi doesn't have to have dragons in it because the audience doesn't necessarily want or need them - not because you can't have a dragon in a sci fi book. Mystery books are books which people who like mysteries want to read - as you put it - because that audience requires a mystery and will buy books that have mysteries in them. As you said, a genre is a label, but the label is there for the consumer because the consumer knows what they want and they have dictated that to the publisher. Audiences change and thats why your'e seeing so many new sub-genres in new commercial spaces like Amazon.

Quote Post 33

34 Reply by Deckland Oz (edited by Deckland Oz 2018-06-28 05:48:52)

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

Mark S. Moore wrote:
Deckland Oz wrote:
Mark S. Moore wrote:

I think if you try to force a book into a genre, you can ruin it. If you try to write to a genre, you can come up with derivative crap.

Can you give an example of "derivative crap?"

Any novel that tries to shoehorn elements of a genre to make it work. I just finished a trilogy I enjoyed 90% of by Joe Abercrombie. It was considered Fantasy for the magic element which boiled down to basically Terry Brooks take on magic. It clearly didn't belong despite being an undercurrent through the whole series and it was the only part of it that would have fit the Fantasy genre. Naturally, that's just my opinion, but to me, it cheapened the story.  If you're adding something that doesn't fit your story just to put it in a genre box it's not going to come off as original or even necessary. It can come off as uninspired, as was the case in this particular trilogy.


So, you're saying Joe Abercrombie's books, which you enjoyed 90%, are "derivative crap?" If not, can you give a specific example of "derivative crap." The titles of some books, I mean.

Quote Post 34

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

Mark S. Moore wrote:
Deckland Oz wrote:
Mark S. Moore wrote:

it is important to know who your audience is and the Genres are defined by that.

Actually, I think you have it backward: genres are not defined by audiences; rather, publishers know who the audience of a given genre will be, which is why they consider genre essential: it gaurantees readership. If genre were defined by audience, one might simply say: “Mysteries are books which people who like mysteries want to read,” which is not very helpful in defining what mystery intrinsically is.

Feels a bit chicken and egg to me. You can't set expectations without a target audience. Not in a commercial sense. Why would you want something as a tenet of a genre if the audience it is designed for didn't like that? Sci-fi doesn't have to have dragons in it because the audience doesn't necessarily want or need them - not because you can't have a dragon in a sci fi book. Mystery books are books which people who like mysteries want to read - as you put it - because that audience requires a mystery and will buy books that have mysteries in them. As you said, a genre is a label, but the label is there for the consumer because the consumer knows what they want and they have dictated that to the publisher. Audiences change and thats why your'e seeing so many new sub-genres in new commercial spaces like Amazon.

You said "genres are defined by (who your audience is)." To be clear, by any standard definition of the word, this is not how genre is defined except in the very broad sense of age-based genres, such as Young Adult or MG, etc. Genre is defined by style, theme, etc. Or, in terms of genre fiction, by specific features. Yes, market research is used to refine those features, so in that sense the audience does participate in refining the genre; but genres themselves in the sense of the label put on a book are 100% the creation of publishers. Not much more to say on the subject.

Quote Post 35

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

Deckland Oz wrote:
Mark S. Moore wrote:
Deckland Oz wrote:

Actually, I think you have it backward: genres are not defined by audiences; rather, publishers know who the audience of a given genre will be, which is why they consider genre essential: it gaurantees readership. If genre were defined by audience, one might simply say: “Mysteries are books which people who like mysteries want to read,” which is not very helpful in defining what mystery intrinsically is.

Feels a bit chicken and egg to me. You can't set expectations without a target audience. Not in a commercial sense. Why would you want something as a tenet of a genre if the audience it is designed for didn't like that? Sci-fi doesn't have to have dragons in it because the audience doesn't necessarily want or need them - not because you can't have a dragon in a sci fi book. Mystery books are books which people who like mysteries want to read - as you put it - because that audience requires a mystery and will buy books that have mysteries in them. As you said, a genre is a label, but the label is there for the consumer because the consumer knows what they want and they have dictated that to the publisher. Audiences change and thats why your'e seeing so many new sub-genres in new commercial spaces like Amazon.

You said "genres are defined by (who your audience is)." To be clear, by any standard definition of the word, this is not how genre is defined except in the very broad sense of age-based genres, such as Young Adult or MG, etc. Genre is defined by style, theme, etc. Or, in terms of genre fiction, by specific features. Yes, market research is used to refine those features, so in that sense the audience does participate in refining the genre; but genres themselves in the sense of the label put on a book are 100% the creation of publishers. Not much more to say on the subject.

Well, I'm glad we have an authority on the subject to split hairs with. I'll agree to disagree. I'm not sure our tangent has helped the original poster at all so I apologize.

Quote Post 36

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

Christine Dreier wrote:

Thanks so much,  Jeff. Magical realism was what came first to my mind but that seemed to lead readers to believe it was fantasy. In so many ways magical realism fits the bill as the worlds per se are historical, real, while magical/fantastical elements come into play here and there.  As the story progresses,  my MC will come to see these fantastical elements as real, and they do belong to her adopted world.  I'll take a closer look at speculative fiction. That genre had never crossed my mind. Cheers, Christine

Hey Christine,
your novel sounds very similar to mine, and I've been interested in this thread to find out where you land. My book series also takes place in a real place and time, with the supernatural elements only gradually introduced, hardly there in the first novel, strengthening in novel two and full blown in the third. I was at a loss as to where to place it as well. It is character driven. Takes place in the southern Appalachian area during the Depression. But it can't be classified as historical, because it is not about the time period- that's just the window dressing. There's a mysterious murder, but it's not really a mystery because the killer is known and the investigation takes place in the background. I was going to go with Southern Gothic, but I'm not sure that fits either.

CJ

Quote Post 37

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

Hi, CJ,
I'm not sure where I'll land but am exploring magical realism a bit more by reading books in the genre. The most famous authors are Latin-American, but their take is quite different than mine, and not really of a model.  I, therefore, have to find authors who are closer to what I'm doing.
What's the title of the book you're working on? Have you published it on this site? I wonder why you think your story isn't historical? Mine plays out in two historical worlds, but since I have magical elements in the story, actually right from the beginning, I don't think classifying it as historical is the right approach. I just peeked at a Wikipedia description of Southern Gothic. It seems to be a quite specific. Not sure if that makes it easy or hard to classify. Best, Christine

Quote Post 38

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

I'll share how I decided and use the novel I'm working as an example. I've place it within the sci-fi genre because of the core ingredients that make up the story soup. it takes place in a fictional world, set in the future. There's a magic like force but it's not enough in weight to theme the story fantasy.

what element is most prominent and where does it fit? Is what I asked myself after starting. Reading the chapters I had so far, I agreed with my first choice and feel it solidly fits into sci-fi.

Quote Post 39

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

Helpful solutions Telkontsugra. After reading your post I googled 'Historical fiction with a dash of magic' and hey, quite a bit came up. Most of my novel deals with history, it's the most prevalent theme, but with magical elements. So, another route to explore. Thanks!

Quote Post 40

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

Do any of you have a go-to for looking up what elements exist in a genre when you're picking it? Wikipedia has been used here and so has a forum. I've personally looked at Writer's Digest in the past.

Quote Post 41

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

This article has an interesting take on genre and writing to a target audience. Perhaps you will agree with it. Follow the link below. Take care. Vern

http://www.writersdigest.com/online-edi … hooses-you

Quote Post 42

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

I write for myself and sometimes I tell a story for my grandkids.  I get a wild hair and because I love old horror films (black and white) I'll create a  scary tale.  I spent 13 years as a dispatcher for a major city and will dabble in crime a bit. Try them out and just create.

Quote Post 43

44 Reply by njc

Re: Can someone help with finding one's genre?

Is the =Raiders of the Lost Ark= series derivative of  =King Solomon's Mines=?

Quote Post 44